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Thursday, April 03, 2014

OTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments

Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 03, 2014 at 01:59 PM | 4718 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: 7 million aca signees and counting, i-95 south, nc, politics

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   3101. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 27, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4695512)
Yes. And?


ACA was sold with the explicit promise no democrat would ever do anything bad.
   3102. Steve Treder Posted: April 27, 2014 at 09:02 PM (#4695518)
ACA was sold with the explicit promise no democrat would ever do anything bad.

Yet another GOTCHA!!!
   3103. GregD Posted: April 27, 2014 at 09:16 PM (#4695521)
I love the Donald Sterling is a Democrat gotcha...first of all he gave 6k total to a few candidates ending 22 years ago, second Democrats universally are condemning him, including the seated president. Some people have a hard time understanding that basic difference. The problem with the ties between Cliven Bundy and Republicans is not oh look a Republican did something scandalous...it is Republicans praising him for doing something scandalous. If Republicans had stood up and said, wait a minute, this isn't patriotism, this is illegal and despicable resistance to law when Bundy camped out, it would be an analogous situation.
   3104. Steve Treder Posted: April 27, 2014 at 09:21 PM (#4695522)
Wait ... you're saying Yankee Clapper ju-jitsu isn't lethally wickedly effective?

   3105. Howie Menckel Posted: April 27, 2014 at 09:56 PM (#4695525)

well, Sterling said a bunch of racist things and everyone across the political board condemned him for it.
so did that idiot rancher.
I think that's the analogy.

now, a lot of Republicans also praised a weird rancher without even seemingly doing the slightest research into the actual details, which left them all - especially the right-wing radio loons - with egg on their faces.

I don't see a racism disparity here, though....
   3106. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 27, 2014 at 10:12 PM (#4695530)
I love the Donald Sterling is a Democrat gotcha...

Waah.

Hardly a day passes here without some lefty gleefully posting a story that depicts some incredibly obscure Republican, or alleged Republican, engaged in dumb speech, activity, etc. Now you're whining because someone pointed out that billionaire racist Donald Sterling is a Dem? Please.
   3107. Lassus Posted: April 27, 2014 at 10:47 PM (#4695536)
Now you're whining because someone pointed out that billionaire racist Donald Sterling is a Dem...

You misspelled "mocking".
   3108. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 27, 2014 at 10:53 PM (#4695539)
now, a lot of Republicans also praised a weird rancher without even seemingly doing the slightest research into the actual details, which left them all - especially the right-wing radio loons - with egg on their faces.


The problem with the Bundy-GOP relationship is that if you clean up the anachronistic bits about "the Negro" and send it through a couple of spin cycles to clean out the stench of unvarnished racism, his position on "the Negro" is more or less identical to Paul Ryan's position on black "culture" and their lack of desire to "work."

Show me how that works with the NBA guy and the Dems and I'll listen. Otherwise, it's just the GOP water carriers here trying to get all gotcha about a guy that once donated to a candidate from the D side of the aisle.
   3109. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 27, 2014 at 11:22 PM (#4695548)
More because his name was listed last when I clicked here, I am curious of SBB's response to the modern liberal reaction to Donald Sterling.


I'm not SBB and I don't know what the "modern liberal reaction" has been, but I'll comment. (I've listened to the audio and read the Deadspin story, and I heard a snippet of Obama's comments and read something that Sharpton said; I have no issue with what Obama or Sharpton said, and actually I was surprised at how measured Sharpton's comments were. I thought Obama's comments were dignified, in that essentially the way to deal with these people is just to let them speak, because their words dig their own graves... Of course, Sterling didn't intend to speak these comments publicly but... we'll leave that aside.)

First, these old crazy racists will die off soon; in some ways he is a product of his upbringing but the time for these people is nearing the end. Of course, the freedom to hold opinions doesn't mean the NBA needs him as an owner. It's a mess for them and harms their image and they should look to oust him -- in accordance with their ownership agreements and such, of course.

Some other things to note:

1. The media keeps calling this girl a "girlfriend." She is, at best, a sugar baby. Not that there's anything wrong with her earning money that way but people should be honest about what she is. At worst she's a gold digger, out to get his money not through a consensual arrangement but by harming him if necessary. She really turned the tables on him. I don't mean to drum up sympathy for him, and I have none -- he made his own bed here and seems to have been stupid as well as racist -- but there's something not right about publicizing comments that were meant to be private.

2. He complains about her taking blacks to games and such but.... as she is part black herself it is sort of comical that he was breaking his own (racist) rule. In that sense it's sort of odd that despite holding these sentiments he at the same time had a relationship with this girl who is part black. For what it's worth (very little to nothing), not *all* of his views expressed in the audio were negative towards blacks. But that's sort of like saying that OJ Simpson had some good qualities, also.


   3110. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 27, 2014 at 11:28 PM (#4695550)
Funny thing is, that's a more modern liberal position than I would hold by a long shot. I guess it's too much to expect, but I would have loved it if they just had refused to play. I can't see any legal or procedural right for taking away his team to work. Here, FINALLY, I feel like the market is the key. There, David, Dan, Ray, I'm on board in this instance.


I suspect the league can exercise whatever character and moral turpitude clauses are in their franchise agreements to either oust him or suspend/marginalize him, but that's sort of a guess on my part.

As to the players, they just couldn't boycott. I doubt there are any provisions in their player contracts to do that, and presuming that's the case then it's not fair to ask players to take that kind of a stand. (Of course, the best moral stands are those where you have something to lose, but I don't really expect the players to have done that. Though in this case had they boycotted, the league would probably have faced a backlash if it tried to discipline them in accordance with their CBA.)
   3111. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 27, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4695551)
I love the Donald Sterling is a Democrat gotcha...


Yes, this kind of thing is only fair when done to Republicans.
   3112. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 27, 2014 at 11:54 PM (#4695561)
He complains about her taking blacks to games and such but.... as she is part black herself it is sort of comical that he was breaking his own (racist) rule. In that sense it's sort of odd that despite holding these sentiments he at the same time had a relationship with this girl who is part black.

It's not all that unusual. I had a mixed race GF whose mother was a major racist, but whose BF was a black guy who was as dark as Michael Jordan. She saw absolutely no contradiction in this.

Seems to me that if those recordings are real, the Clippers caught a major break by having an easy excuse for getting rid of a worthless owner like Sterling.

I love the Donald Sterling is a Democrat gotcha...


Yes, this kind of thing is only fair when done to Republicans.

Republicans can use this gotcha for whatever they think it's worth, but I doubt if too many of them are so stupid as to think it'll go anywhere, given the minor connection and no identification with any major national political figure.
   3113. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 12:03 AM (#4695562)
If the recordings weren't real Sterling would be screaming bloody murder by now.

   3114. tshipman Posted: April 28, 2014 at 02:50 AM (#4695598)
First, these old crazy racists will die off soon; in some ways he is a product of his upbringing but the time for these people is nearing the end. Of course, the freedom to hold opinions doesn't mean the NBA needs him as an owner. It's a mess for them and harms their image and they should look to oust him -- in accordance with their ownership agreements and such, of course.

Some other things to note:

1. The media keeps calling this girl a "girlfriend." She is, at best, a sugar baby. Not that there's anything wrong with her earning money that way but people should be honest about what she is. At worst she's a gold digger, out to get his money not through a consensual arrangement but by harming him if necessary. She really turned the tables on him. I don't mean to drum up sympathy for him, and I have none -- he made his own bed here and seems to have been stupid as well as racist -- but there's something not right about publicizing comments that were meant to be private.

2. He complains about her taking blacks to games and such but.... as she is part black herself it is sort of comical that he was breaking his own (racist) rule. In that sense it's sort of odd that despite holding these sentiments he at the same time had a relationship with this girl who is part black. For what it's worth (very little to nothing), not *all* of his views expressed in the audio were negative towards blacks. But that's sort of like saying that OJ Simpson had some good qualities, also.


Agreed on points one and two. I also think it's odd that she's referred to as his "girlfriend" when he is married and she is a side piece. I actually think it's a little weird that he's getting so much crap for this. While what he's saying is awful, he has said much worse (He didn't want black people in his apartment buildings allegedly because they brought vermin).

Sterling appears to be an odd duck--on the one hand, he clearly has some beliefs about black people that are awful, and he says them out loud. On the other hand, there's no real history of discrimination with how he runs the Clippers. If anything, they were leaders in having a black GM, and they've never shied away from drafting black players or hiring black coaches.

I think, like Bob Woodward noted later about Watergate, his ousting is more about changing social values than any one particular comment. And of course, the best thing is that his generation will soon no longer be with us.
   3115. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 06:28 AM (#4695602)
Thoughtcrime!
   3116. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 07:01 AM (#4695603)
Here's yet another article that YC might want to read. It's based on a report by a Commission that Obama established:

Health Law’s Pay Policy Is Skewed, Panel Finds

You'll also note that at this point the administration is pushing back at the report's findings, but it's clear that this isn't necessarily the final word on the matter.

This is exactly the sort of article that's worth reading, though it doesn't play "gotcha" with any particular side.
   3117. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 07:14 AM (#4695608)
He complains about her taking blacks to games and such but.... as she is part black herself it is sort of comical that he was breaking his own (racist) rule. In that sense it's sort of odd that despite holding these sentiments he at the same time had a relationship with this girl who is part black. For what it's worth (very little to nothing), not *all* of his views expressed in the audio were negative towards blacks. But that's sort of like saying that OJ Simpson had some good qualities, also.


The plantation owners sometimes ###### the slave women, too.

Not sure exactly why there would be any wondering about my position. Proven, actual racist in position of power and influence. I've never said or hinted at anything that could reasonably make anyone believe I'd stand for such a thing.
   3118. Lassus Posted: April 28, 2014 at 07:41 AM (#4695609)
Not sure exactly why there would be any wondering about my position. Proven, actual racist in position of power and influence. I've never said or hinted at anything that could reasonably make anyone believe I'd stand for such a thing.

If you read the question, it was not about Sterling, but about the reaction to Sterling.
   3119. zonk Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:00 AM (#4695612)
2. He complains about her taking blacks to games and such but.... as she is part black herself it is sort of comical that he was breaking his own (racist) rule. In that sense it's sort of odd that despite holding these sentiments he at the same time had a relationship with this girl who is part black. For what it's worth (very little to nothing), not *all* of his views expressed in the audio were negative towards blacks. But that's sort of like saying that OJ Simpson had some good qualities, also.


Actually - it's not incongruous at all.

Strom Thurmond had no problem bedding his family's black maid long before he.... 'reformed'.

   3120. zonk Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:08 AM (#4695615)
TPM with background on Sterling indicating that there's been smoke around him for a long time -- and questions why the NAACP was planning to give him an award...

   3121. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:15 AM (#4695616)
no real history of discrimination with how he runs the Clippers.


Elgin Baylor would beg to differ on that.

I don't want to get into the Bundy thing again, but while I'm not convinced he is racist, its apparent that Sterling is. From a legal standpoint I don't know what the league could do, but Sterling should be forced out of the league over this. I would hate to see him get any kind of huge payday over this, but it would not surprise me if he ends up with a golden parachute like so many corporate CEOs that fail miserably and yet are rewarded.
   3122. Howie Menckel Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:21 AM (#4695617)



bipartisan blast from Bill Maher

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-tackles-pc-nazis-on-the-left-yes-liberals-can-be-obnoxious/

Bill Maher blasted Republicans in his show-ending New Rule Friday, but also had some choice words for the “political correctness Nazis” and other “obnoxious” liberals who give people an excuse to support Republicans in the first place. Maher admitted he has no earthly idea how Republicans could possibly be this popular in this day and age, short of “cheating.”

However, Maher had to admit liberals have made the “cultural resentment” on the right much easier to grasp, with the PC police telling people like him to censor jokes, Facebook providing over 50 genders, atheists suing over crosses, and all the rest of it. Maher admitted “liberals can be obnoxious” and people don’t like political “nagging.”

However, Maher warned that liberal paternalism is no reason to “cut off your nose to spite your face.” He said, “For every liberal with a cause who makes you go ‘Oh, shoot me,’ there’s a conservative with a gun who will.”
   3123. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:40 AM (#4695623)
TPM with background on Sterling indicating that there's been smoke around him for a long time -- and questions why the NAACP was planning to give him an award...


Obviously you can't trust the people in charge of the NAACP to accurately judge who is and isn't a true friend of the Negro. They lack the "necessities" in this regard.
   3124. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:45 AM (#4695625)
I don't want to get into the Bundy thing again, but while I'm not convinced he is racist, its apparent that Sterling is. From a legal standpoint I don't know what the league could do, but Sterling should be forced out of the league over this.


Does the league have a policy against Thoughtcrime?

I would hate to see him get any kind of huge payday over this


I think Sterling is a foolish old jerk but I'd hate to see him be forced to sell his asset at a loss. Bad enough he's in a position where his private conversation with a paramour is subjecting him to public scoldings from Snoop Dogg, former drug dealer, pornographer, and writer and singer of, \"####### ain't #### but hoes and tricks."
   3125. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:50 AM (#4695630)
50 genders

It's apparently now up to 58, and that's not counting the obsolete categories of "Male" and "Female". Calling Jerry Lucas!

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cisgender
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans*
Trans Female
Trans* Female
Trans Male
Trans* Male
Trans Man
Trans* Man
Trans Person
Trans* Person
Trans Woman
Trans* Woman
Transfeminine
Transgender
Transgender Female
Transgender Male
Transgender Man
Transgender Person
Transgender Woman
Transmasculine
Transsexual
Transsexual Female
Transsexual Male
Transsexual Man
Transsexual Person
Transsexual Woman
Two-Spirit

   3126. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:52 AM (#4695631)
It's apparently now up to 58. Calling Jerry Lucas!


I will never get why anyone gets upset at this stuff. (Not that you are). Who cares how people want to identify themselves? That is up to them. Of course some people care who other people marry, so there is that.
   3127. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 08:56 AM (#4695632)
Who cares how people want to identify themselves?


I identify as The Macho King, I can't be bothered to worry about how you plebeians refer to each other.
   3128. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:06 AM (#4695633)
Sterling appears to be an odd duck--on the one hand, he clearly has some beliefs about black people that are awful, and he says them out loud. On the other hand, there's no real history of discrimination with how he runs the Clippers. If anything, they were leaders in having a black GM, and they've never shied away from drafting black players or hiring black coaches.

Longtime employee and GM Elgin Baylor sued him for racial discrimination.

The plantation owners also didn't shy away from "drafting" black people for their plantations. Sure, Sterling didn't mind having black people work for him, but what does that show? He certainly didn't think they were his equals, and didn't act as if they were.
   3129. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:07 AM (#4695634)
YR, I hate the idea of thought crimes and am all for free speech. I thought the treatment of the Mozilla CEO was ridiculous. But when an NBA owner says "don't bring blacks to my games", what recourse is there? Does the NBA, as a business organization, not have any legitimate recourse here?

Doc Rivers has already said he won't come back next year, and if any of the players have any dignity they will sit out until the team is sold and/or they are declared free agents. I can understand them all wanting to see this year through, for the fans, but if I was an employee of that POS I would be submitting my resignation.
   3130. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:12 AM (#4695636)
The players' tepid reaction was disappointing. There are some things in life more important than eliminating "distractions" and "pursuing a championship." (You want Massa Sterling to parade around with the Larry O'Brien Trophy?? Really???)

They shouldn't have worked on Massa Sterling's plantation yesterday.
   3131. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:22 AM (#4695641)
I would have to think that's what I would have done personally if I were a player who is set for life whether they make another dollar playing basketball or not.
   3132. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:24 AM (#4695642)
Longtime employee and GM Elgin Baylor sued him for racial discrimination.


Did he win?

Sure, Sterling didn't mind having black people work for him, but what does that show? He certainly didn't think they were his equals, and didn't act as if they were.


He's fabulously wealthy beyond the dreams of Croseus. He doesn't think you're his equal either.
   3133. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:30 AM (#4695645)
I think Sterling is a foolish old jerk but I'd hate to see him be forced to sell his asset at a loss.

Why? Under what moral principle should we be concerned about the price he gets for an asset he managed in a racist and cretinous way? (Nor is it clear why we'd assume that he'd sell at a loss. Why would that happen?)
   3134. Ron J2 Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:34 AM (#4695649)
#3036 I've seen the comments in the code of some important systems. (Of course Mouse -- and all other guys in IT -- now suspects me of lying. I mean "comments in the code") It's far from unusual to see indications that a section was just bolted on and could stand work.
   3135. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:35 AM (#4695650)
#3132 - he withdrew the lawsuit. I don't think a court action (and certainly not a sham human rights tribunal) is the way to go about this. The impetus has to come from the fans and the players. Maybe Sterling deserves to keep the team if the fans keep coming and the players keep playing. But I do think the league should be able, as a business decision, to sever themselves from Sterling in a way that he can't challenge from a legal standpoint.
   3136. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:35 AM (#4695651)
They shouldn't have worked on Massa Sterling's plantation yesterday.


Look I think Sterlings remarks were ridiculous, but the players do have a contract and are getting paid very handsomely to show up and ply their profession. Just because owner dude is a racist does not automatically make his business "a plantation" or anything ridiculous like that. I would not criticize any player for refusing to work for him, but I completely understand wanting to fulfill your contract, especially since it is the playoffs and the point of the season. Why let racist owner dude ruin your season?

   3137. BDC Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:38 AM (#4695653)
Who cares how people want to identify themselves? That is up to them

I don't get the outrage about 58 gender terms either, nor how that outrage fits in to an anti-PC rant. For instance, I don't like the name "Redskins," but I understand why a Redskins fan who sees the name as an empty moniker would bristle when it's criticized. In the case of the 58 genders, all Facebook is doing is asking people how they'd like to be presented to the world. Giving more choices seems the complete reverse of censorship.
   3138. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:38 AM (#4695654)
(Of course Mouse -- and all other guys in IT -- now suspects me of lying. I mean "comments in the code")


What? When have I accused you of lying? And plenty of code has comments, of course, though less than should have such things. And of course you are right most (and by that I mean 99+%) has crap bolted on in all directions. It is the curse of complex systems.
   3139. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:39 AM (#4695655)
I think Sterling is a foolish old jerk but I'd hate to see him be forced to sell his asset at a loss.

In 1981, Sterling bought the Clippers for $32.5 million in today's dollars. The franchise is now worth about $575 million.

   3140. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:41 AM (#4695657)
YR, I know you're more straight conservative than libertarian, but if Sterling were to have to sell his assets at a loss as a result of his being racist, that is the very definition of the libertarian concept of allowing market forces to work. The market (meaning the economy) isn't supposed to influence morals and ethics, but a moral and ethical population, when it is allowed, will naturally weed out this kind of ####.
   3141. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:41 AM (#4695658)
Just because owner dude is a racist does not automatically make his business "a plantation" or anything ridiculous like that.

No, but repeatedly talking like a plantation owner and taking a plantation attitude toward blacks (*) does make his business a plantation.

Why let racist owner dude ruin your season?

We'll keep in mind your principle that racism really doesn't matter if the racist pays you enough or if other considerations are more "important."

Under your silly principle, why let "racist dude" ever "ruin" anything?

(*) Such as inviting a woman friend into the locker room, pointing at a few players, and saying "Look at those beautiful black bodies."
   3142. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:43 AM (#4695660)
#3139 - How much is who-what-when-where-and-why million in dollars? :-)
   3143. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:43 AM (#4695661)
I can see why the NBA would like him to sell. And if they apply pressure within the law (and their bylaws) well that is up to them. However, I don't think he should be forced to sell outside that legally (protests and such are different).

You get to believe horrible things and even say them. It is kind of the point of freedom. And yes people get to protest those same horrible things, but as far as I know he did not break any laws and aside from public pressure and NBA internal stuff he should be allowed to go about his business. Of course I am not going to be supporting the Clippers, but that is my personal choice.
   3144. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:44 AM (#4695662)
#3132 - he withdrew the lawsuit. I don't think a court action (and certainly not a sham human rights tribunal) is the way to go about this. The impetus has to come from the fans and the players. Maybe Sterling deserves to keep the team if the fans keep coming and the players keep playing. But I do think the league should be able, as a business decision, to sever themselves from Sterling in a way that he can't challenge from a legal standpoint.


Look I think Sterlings remarks were ridiculous, but the players do have a contract and are getting paid very handsomely to show up and ply there profession. Just because owner dude is a racist does not automatically make his business "a plantation" or anything ridiculous like that. I would not criticize any player for refusing to work for him, but I completely understand wanting to fulfill your contract, especially since it is the playoffs and the point of the season. Why let racist owner dude ruin your season?

That was the Clippers' reaction, and I agree with it. But if the owners haven't figured a way to dump Sterling by the beginning of next year's training camp, it wouldn't surprise me to see the players on all 30 teams simply refuse to report, and dare the NBA to file a lawsuit against them.
   3145. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:48 AM (#4695663)
No, but repeatedly talking like a plantation owner and taking a plantation attitude toward blacks (*) does make his business a plantation.


No it does not. A plantation is a very specific thing. Owner dude might have a plantation owner mentality, but that does not make his business a plantation. his statements - while horrible - are not material to how his business is run. How his business is run (which also may have issues, btw) is what makes it a "plantation" or not, not the inner thoughts of racism.

We'll keep in mind your principle that racism really doesn't matter if the racist pays you enough or if other considerations are more "important."


Where exactly did I say it did not matter (hint, I didn't). I said the players can decide for themselves how to react and that I don't blame them for finishing out the season. And I don't blame them if they decide not to. Nor do I blame people for being upset and applying public pressure. Nor am I against the NBA acting according to its bylaws.

So other than the ever present voices in your head, what exactly are you arguing against?
   3146. BDC Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:51 AM (#4695667)
The closest baseball analogy to Sterling is of course Marge Schott, who continued her antics for many years and made quite a few of her employees miserable. There was no general or specific labor action, though she was increasingly ostracized by MLB and eventually levered out. That wasn't that long ago, a couple of decades, but it seems a different era now, less inclined to put up with such behavior. Or are there factors that make Schott less of a good analogy?
   3147. spike Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4695668)
   3148. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4695669)
First, these old crazy racists will die off soon;


There will always be crazy, crazy is eternal, the flavor may change, but right now there is some 20 something who is bat #### nit about something and 50 years from now that dude will be dismissed as an old crazy [____] whose like is dying off, crazy is with us as surely as death and taxes
   3149. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:53 AM (#4695672)
Owner dude might have a plantation owner mentality, but that does not make his business a plantation.

It absolutely does. What else does it make it?

I said the players can decide for themselves how to react and that I don't blame them for finishing out the season.

Then you have no standing or ground to "blame" other people for ignoring racism. If the people at whom the racism is targeted don't care (*), why should anyone else?

(*) Your boss just publicly declared you and other accomplished black people inferior and you have no desire to sacrifice anything in protest? Strange reaction.
   3150. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:55 AM (#4695674)
The closest baseball analogy to Sterling is of course Marge Schott, who continued her antics for many years and made quite a few of her employees miserable. There was no general or specific labor action, though she was increasingly ostracized by MLB and eventually levered out.

Schott was basically immediately suspended for two years after her Hitler remarks and forced to sell the team shortly thereafter. She of course did not publicly and cretinously insult her labor.
   3151. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:56 AM (#4695675)
The authority on generational dating and known Communist comes to Sterlings defense.

Ah, the classic "bitch set me up!" defense. I hope Marion Barry is at least getting some royalties from Trump on that line.
   3152. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 09:59 AM (#4695677)
Schott was basically immediately suspended for two years after her Hitler remarks and forced to sell the team shortly thereafter.

But it took Hitler to do it, even though Schott had been making racist comments for years before that, just as Sterling's been a proven racist for much of his public life long before Saturday. The real problem lies with the almost nonexistent level of screening that prospective pro sports owners get before they're allowed to buy into the club.
   3153. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:04 AM (#4695678)
It absolutely does. What else does it make it?


So, in your opinion it was just fine (based on what what was happening before), and then he made some remarks you found out about, and even though nothing else changed NOW it is a plantation when it was not before?

Then you have no standing or ground to "blame" other people for ignoring racism. If the people at whom the racism is targeted don't care (*), why should anyone else?


First of all why is blame in scare quotes? Anyway being a racist is not illegal. People get to have the thoughts and feelings they have. Part of living in a free society. What they don't get to do is act in a racist manner in the public sphere in certain ways (for example as an employer).

So if he runs his business in a non-racist way (according to the law) then the law has nothing to say about what his inner thoughts might be. And as I said before I personally do not support him or his organization, but I certainly don't blame the players for playing out the season.
   3154. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:07 AM (#4695680)
(*) Your boss just publicly declared you and other accomplished black people inferior and you have no desire to sacrifice anything in protest? Strange reaction.


Argue with me, not the voices. My boss has done no such thing. Their boss has, and I am willing to support them in either playing out the season or in protesting. Why should I blame them?

Now if next year he is still owner I will look askance at any free agents that choose to sign with his club. But that is different then playing out the season in the playoffs.
   3155. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:07 AM (#4695681)
YR, I hate the idea of thought crimes and am all for free speech. I thought the treatment of the Mozilla CEO was ridiculous.


And I think the treatment of Steriling here is worse. This is a private conversation with a Sugar Baby, not a public donation for a legal referendum. The leaking alone is enough to give one pause - this whole thing reeks of blackmail and I'm uncomfortable with the connotations of penalizing a man for such private speech.

But when an NBA owner says "don't bring blacks to my games", what recourse is there?


You ask for a formal apology and move on. MLB didn't confiscate the Reds for Marge Schott's comments. If it hurts Sterling's business as an owner, then he'll be incentivised to sell by market forces, not by heavy-handed edicts from above.

Does the NBA, as a business organization, not have any legitimate recourse here?


They do, but I don't think stripping Sterling of his franchise is appropriate or warranted. If private speech is enough to allow such actions, well, I think we'd all be well-served to be very careful in what we condone here.

Doc Rivers has already said he won't come back next year, and if any of the players have any dignity they will sit out until the team is sold and/or they are declared free agents. I can understand them all wanting to see this year through, for the fans, but if I was an employee of that POS I would be submitting my resignation.


I'm OK with any player willing to sit out and forego their enormous salaries for any matter of conscience.
   3156. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:08 AM (#4695682)
YR, I know you're more straight conservative than libertarian


YES! IN YOUR FACE HIPPIES! MEGADITTOS!

but if Sterling were to have to sell his assets at a loss as a result of his being racist, that is the very definition of the libertarian concept of allowing market forces to work.


If he's being forced to sell then he's marketing his asset as a distressed seller, which lowers its value. If he sells of his own free accord that's obviously a completely different issue. I don't care if he wants to sell, but I'm concerned about the calls that he be forced to sell.
   3157. zonk Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:10 AM (#4695683)

But it took Hitler to do it, even though Schott had been making racist comments for years before that, just as Sterling's been a proven racist for much of his public life long before Saturday. The real problem lies with the almost nonexistent level of screening that prospective pro sports owners get before they're allowed to buy into the club.


Oh, they get screened... just not for anything other than their capability to toe the league line on players union negotiations, strong-arming host towns into buying them new venues, and the like.

   3158. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:11 AM (#4695684)
So, in your opinion it was just fine (based on what what was happening before), and then he made some remarks you found out about, and even though nothing else changed NOW it is a plantation when it was not before?

It was a plantation before. There was evidence of such, for anyone paying attention, but no smoking gun. (As many have argued before, there's an inherent "plantation" aspect to businesses wherein white owners get rich off the sweat and toil of black guys, but discussion of that broader principle isn't necessary here.)

First of all why is blame in scare quotes?

Because it's the word you used. I have no idea what the rest of your non-controversial remarks bring to the situation, or how they respond to what I said.
   3159. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:14 AM (#4695686)
In 1981, Sterling bought the Clippers for $32.5 million in today's dollars. The franchise is now worth about $575 million.


Surely you're not implying that if he bought the crappy team for $32 million in 1981, and it's worth $525 million today, that he's no grounds for distress if he's given $250 million today and told to hit the bricks. Surely you can think of a corollary with a rare book purchased at a low price 30 years ago now worth a fortune if someone suggested you sell if for less than it's market value because you paid so little for it. "Easy come easy go" isn't the best business practice in the long term.
   3160. formerly dp Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:14 AM (#4695687)
I will never get why anyone gets upset at this stuff. (Not that you are). Who cares how people want to identify themselves? That is up to them. Of course some people care who other people marry, so there is that.
One of the awesome moments in Maher's rant came when he specifically called out 'cisgender' as an absurd option, without realizing that it's the correct title for his own gender ID.
   3161. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM (#4695688)
It was a plantation before. There was evidence of such, for anyone paying attention, but no smoking gun. (As many have argued before, there's an inherent "plantation" aspect to businesses wherein white owners get rich off the sweat and toil of black guys, but discussion of that broader principle isn't necessary here.)


So are all NBA franchises plantations? Or is it only those owned by white guys? Or only racist white guys? Does it matter what percent of the franchise employees are not black? Are there other business (or professional sports) that are plantations?
   3162. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:16 AM (#4695689)
But it took Hitler to do it, even though Schott had been making racist comments for years before that, just as Sterling's been a proven racist for much of his public life long before Saturday. The real problem lies with the almost nonexistent level of screening that prospective pro sports owners get before they're allowed to buy into the club.

Oh, they get screened... just not for anything other than their capability to toe the league line on players union negotiations, strong-arming host towns into buying them new venues, and the like.


Obviously all that's true, but I didn't feel the need to belabor the obvious.
   3163. Lassus Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:18 AM (#4695690)
YR, I hate the idea of thought crimes and am all for free speech. I thought the treatment of the Mozilla CEO was ridiculous. But when an NBA owner says "don't bring blacks to my games", what recourse is there? Does the NBA, as a business organization, not have any legitimate recourse here?

I propose applying revenue sharing money from the Yankees to fix the problem.
   3164. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:21 AM (#4695691)
So are all NBA franchises plantations? Or is it only those owned by white guys? Or only racist white guys? Does it matter what percent of the franchise employees are not black? Are there other business (or professional sports) that are plantations?

Bring it up with Harry Edwards, or Curt Flood's ghost. Donald Sterling's franchise (*) is and was a plantation.

(*) V: Do you know that you have a whole team that's black, that plays for you?

Sterling: You just, do I know? I support them and give them food, and clothes, and cars, and houses. Who gives it to them? Does someone else give it to them? Do I know that I have—Who makes the game? Do I make the game, or do they make the game? Is there 30 owners, that created the league?
   3165. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4695694)
Bring it up with Harry Edwards, or Curt Flood's ghost.


So anyone but you, because they all know your thoughts on the matter better than you? OK then.
   3166. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4695695)
If he's being forced to sell then he's marketing his asset as a distressed seller, which lowers its value. If he sells of his own free accord that's obviously a completely different issue. I don't care if he wants to sell, but I'm concerned about the calls that he be forced to sell.


It depends what's causing the distress. If the players walk out, which they should, how is that not Sterling's fault?
   3167. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4695697)
I propose applying revenue sharing money from the Yankees to fix the problem.


If you favorite tool is a hammer...
   3168. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4695699)
In 1981, Sterling bought the Clippers for $32.5 million in today's dollars. The franchise is now worth about $575 million.

Surely you're not implying that if he bought the crappy team for $32 million in 1981, and it's worth $525 million today, that he's no grounds for distress if he's given $250 million today and told to hit the bricks. Surely you can think of a corollary with a rare book purchased at a low price 30 years ago now worth a fortune if someone suggested you sell if for less than it's market value because you paid so little for it. "Easy come easy go" isn't the best business practice in the long term.


I used to sell rare books all the time for well under the market value, which increased turnover speed and kept me solidly in the black for 23 years out of 23. In fact "Buy high and sell low" was pretty much my modus operandi, because I figured out that reputation is a valuable business asset. Too bad for Sterling at this point that he never realized that.

As for Sterling's somewhat diminished profit if he's forced to sell, cry me a river. He made his bed and he can lie in it.
   3169. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4695700)
I propose applying revenue sharing money from the Yankees to fix the problem.


Personally I blame the Lakers. And the Dodgers. I am on board with applying some Yankee money though, it can't hurt.
   3170. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:26 AM (#4695703)
There's no reason to think Sterling would sell at a loss or for less than he'd otherwise get. It's not as though he's selling a haunted house with a dead body in the basement or something. People will be lined up to give him market value for the Clippers; there might even be a bidding war.
   3171. Publius Publicola Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:28 AM (#4695705)
Re #3130:

Judging by the score, they didn't.
   3172. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4695707)
If the players walk out, which they should, how is that not Sterling's fault?


If they're willing to walk out and forego their contracted salaries indefinitely, that's their choice. I don't think that will happen, but if it does let's not lose track of what the impetus here is - nothing that Sterling has ever said or done in the past, but because a private conversation with a paramour was leaked as probable blackmail to injure Sterling. Obviously we can chastise Sterling for not paying whatever the blackmailer was demanding, but that's not really the issue.

Again, if Sterling makes the decision to sell his franchise for whatever reason, that's his prerogative. I object to the league kowtowing to the hysteria and manufactured outrage and demanding he do so.
   3173. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:31 AM (#4695709)
I don't think that will happen, but if it does let's not lose track of what the impetus here is - nothing that Sterling has ever said or done in the past, but because a private conversation with a paramour was leaked as probable blackmail to injure Sterling.

There's plenty of evidence of Sterling's long-standing bigotry. It wouldn't be just this incident.
   3174. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:33 AM (#4695711)
Regarding selling the Clippers,. things change, but in 2000 there was this article:

Not long after that an ownership group in Nashville reportedly made an overture worth almost $200 million, which Sterling also rebuffed. "I never sell anything," he says. "I'd prefer to stay in L.A. and lose money than move and make a fortune."
   3175. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:34 AM (#4695713)
There's no reason to think Sterling would sell at a loss or for less than he'd otherwise get. It's not as though he's selling a haunted house with a dead body in the basement or something. People will be lined up to give him market value for the Clippers; there might even be a bidding war.

Yeah, I think you could well be right, given that the quality of the current roster and the narrative of having a fresh start under a non-racist owner would have to be an added incentive to buy the team. And it also should be noted that Sterling's had many previous offers to sell.
   3176. GregD Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4695715)
Two interesting stats-oriented politics pieces today:
Skepticism of Hagan's chances in North Carolina because of the unusually young Democratic electorate there

A model that suggests that Democrats have an 83-89% chance of winning a popular vote tie in the EC in 2016

Both obviously speculative but interesting.

I am agnostic on #1--it seems reasonable but I also am not sure that midterm turnout will stay the same in this environment; we will see.

Ed to add: Personally I think the candidate who wins the popular vote should be president, so I don't celebrate scenario where a Democrat theoretically might lose the popular vote narrowly but win the EC.

On #2, I have big doubts. And I don't know if there are any more Republican votes to be gained in Utah and Oklahoma or other "wasted" states, so I would think a Republican popular vote tie would almost have to include more votes in swing states. But interesting to contemplate.
   3177. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:36 AM (#4695716)
Who cares how people want to identify themselves? That is up to them


Actually, there's a significant amount of mental illness involved in how some people are "identifying." (Gender identity disorder.) But of course society pretends that's not the case because, Progress.
   3178. spike Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:39 AM (#4695719)
let's not lose track of what the impetus here is - nothing that Sterling has ever said or done in the past, but because a private conversation with a paramour was leaked as probable blackmail to injure Sterling.

On the contrary, he'd be in a much better position but for his well documented past on the subject. This may be the catalyst, but far from the only element in the reaction
   3179. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:40 AM (#4695721)
I used to sell rare books all the time for well under the market value, which increased turnover speed and kept me solidly in the black for 23 years out of 23. In fact "Buy high and sell low" was pretty much my modus operandi, because I figured out that reputation is a valuable business asset. Too bad for Sterling at this point that he never realized that.


I dunno, I think he's done ok in business for himself. As far as I know Andy, you and I are the only business owners on the site, I don't think any NBA owner would give a tinker's cuss for how we thought they should operate.

As for Sterling's somewhat diminished profit if he's forced to sell, cry me a river. He made his bed and he can lie in it.


He made his bed by having a private conversation leaked, mostly likely as blackmail. I am absolutely opposed to formal, non-market sanctions against individuals for private comments, especially comments as innocuous as Sterlings. Remember please, and I think this is getting lost in the torrent of manufactured outrage, that Sterling didn't claim the Negro inferior, an animal, prone to violence, cursed with a lower IQ, carrying the Black Stain of Ham, or any of the horrible claims made by certain academics and theologians. He said he didn't want his paramour posting photographs with "minorities" and "blacks". He even specifically said in his recording that he didn't care if she associated with them, just that she didn't post photographs or bring them to Clippers games: "You can sleep with [black people]. You can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it on that [Instagram] and not to bring them to my games."

Frankly, the idea that he's accepting of his Sugar Baby sleeping with black people while he continues to foot her bill makes Sterling a fair bit more progressive than most people.
   3180. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:40 AM (#4695722)
Actually, there's a significant amount of mental illness involved in how some people are "identifying." (Gender identity disorder.) But of course society pretends that's not the case because, Progress.


Do have a cite for that big guy? I assume you are leveraging your background in the field* or are quoting a reputable source.

* Actually I thought you did not believe in psychiatry, but I could be wrong on that.
   3181. formerly dp Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4695724)
Actually, there's a significant amount of mental illness involved in how some people are "identifying." (Gender identity disorder.)
I enjoy watching you boast about your own ignorance. Please do keep it up.
   3182. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:42 AM (#4695725)
Does the league have a policy against Thoughtcrime?


This wasn't a "thoughtcrime." However deceitful it was that his comments were taped and then the audio released, the fact is (absent a specific denial from him, which has still not come) that he spoke the words. I'd be shocked if the league's bylaws don't address this in some form, at least with the right to suspend him for cause and remove him from day to day activities of the team.

I think Sterling is a foolish old jerk but I'd hate to see him be forced to sell his asset at a loss.


They'd have to lean on him hard to pressure him to sell, but he's owned the team for more than three decades. No way he'd be selling it at a loss.
   3183. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:42 AM (#4695726)
Remember please, and I think this is getting lost in the torrent of manufactured outrage, that Sterling didn't claim the Negro inferior, an animal, prone to violence, cursed with a lower IQ, carrying the Black Stain of Ham, or any of the horrible claims made by certain academics and theologians. He said he didn't want his paramour posting photographs with "minorities" and "blacks". He even specifically said in his recording that he didn't care if she associated with them, just that she didn't post photographs or bring them to Clippers games: "You can sleep with [black people]. You can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it on that [Instagram] and not to bring them to my games."

If "You can #### them, but don't show yourself to the public hanging around them or bring them to my games" isn't racist, we might as well retire the term.

   3184. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:42 AM (#4695727)
In 1981, Sterling bought the Clippers for $32.5 million in today's dollars. The franchise is now worth about $575 million.


The Milwaukee Bucks just sold for $550 million. The Kings sold for just under that last year (and reportedly had an offer of $800 million on the table).

The Clippers are worth significantly more than $575 million on the open market (frankly, a billion wouldn't surprise me), racist owner or not.
   3185. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:43 AM (#4695728)
As far as I know Andy, you and I are the only business owners on the site


Hey now, I formed an s-corp this very year. And I have an employee (me). OK, not the same thing.

I am absolutely opposed to formal, non-market sanctions against individuals for private comments


Pretty much, though the NBA can of course use whatever leverage it has to do whatever. I don't blame them for wanting to do damage control.
   3186. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:43 AM (#4695729)
I don't think that will happen, but if it does let's not lose track of what the impetus here is - nothing that Sterling has ever said or done in the past, but because a private conversation with a paramour was leaked as probable blackmail to injure Sterling.

There's plenty of evidence of Sterling's long-standing bigotry. It wouldn't be just this incident.


It's only this incident. I don't recall any players demanding he sell the team because Sterling said mean things about Koreans and Mexicans.
   3187. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:44 AM (#4695732)
If "You can #### them, but don't show yourself to the public hanging around them or bring them to my games" isn't racist, we might as well retire the term.


Being racist is loathsome, but not against the law.
   3188. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:46 AM (#4695734)
I don't recall any players demanding he sell the team because Sterling said mean things about Koreans and Mexicans.

Not just Koreans or Mexicans.

Actually, it's a pretty bad failing of David Stern's that he allowed Sterling to stay around this long, completely unsanctioned, given his record. And then he steered Chris Paul to him.

   3189. spike Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4695736)
Remember please, and I think this is getting lost in the torrent of manufactured outrage, that Sterling didn't claim the Negro inferior, an animal, prone to violence, cursed with a lower IQ, carrying the Black Stain of Ham, or any of the horrible claims made by certain academics and theologians.

There is plenty of other sworn testimony that documents Sterling's opinions on the subject.
   3190. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:48 AM (#4695738)
I can understand them all wanting to see this year through, for the fans, but if I was an employee of that POS I would be submitting my resignation.


Sure you would be.

I don't believe you -- which is not to say that I think you're lying but that you're not being self-aware. It's easy to say in the abstract, with nothing at stake.
   3191. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:50 AM (#4695739)
More "Sterling":


Woman: I don't understand, I don't see your views. I wasn't raised the way you were raised.

Man: Well then, if you don't feel—don't come to my games. Don't bring black people, and don't come.

Woman: Do you know that you have a whole team that's black that plays for you?

Man: You just, do I know? I support them and give them food and clothes and cars and houses. Who gives it to them? Does someone else give it to them? Do I know that I have – who makes the game? Do I make the game, or do they make the game? Is there 30 owners that created the league?
   3192. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:51 AM (#4695741)
Sure you would be.


Well I can state I would walk, but since I am right this minute entertaining a switch to a new place (and in my career as a consultant I can switch with a great deal of freedom) it would not be much of a sacrifice.
   3193. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:53 AM (#4695742)
Being racist is loathsome, but not against the law.

Who's talking about the law here? (And Sterling was found liable for racist behavior by the law earlier in his career. Slumlord dislikes minorities so much he won't even slumlord to them.)
   3194. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4695744)
Who's talking about the law here?


No one is suggesting he isn't racist. He is. What we are discussing is what to do about it, and in the legal area the answer is not much can or should be done. In terms of protests people should let their own thoughts guide them. And of course the NBA should cover their own rear end.
   3195. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4695745)
But it took Hitler to do it, even though Schott had been making racist comments for years before that, just as Sterling's been a proven racist for much of his public life long before Saturday. The real problem lies with the almost nonexistent level of screening that prospective pro sports owners get before they're allowed to buy into the club.


The league is about as shocked about this as Sterling's wife is. Which is to say, not at all, other than the shock that he was actually this stupid to be led into the crosshairs.

My guess is that their "screening" is some mix of financial and political (small-p), and as long as the candidate's skeletons are not out in the public eye they pass him.

   3196. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4695747)
Hey now, I formed an s-corp this very year. And I have an employee (me).


The "s" stands for slavery, doesn't it, Mr. Plantation Owner?
   3197. spike Posted: April 28, 2014 at 10:59 AM (#4695748)
in the legal area the answer is not much can or should be done.

In terms of prosecution? Sure, I agree. In terms of his business associates realizing he is jeopardizing their income and the perception of their product, they ought take full advantage of the rules of their agreement to get this guy out if at all possible.
   3198. Ron J2 Posted: April 28, 2014 at 11:00 AM (#4695750)
#3182 There's the overall "don't bring the league into disrepute" clause. And the fact is that the Commissioner has near total say in this area (I say near because at the end of the day ownership can fire him -- but they wouldn't over any actions he takes against Sterling)

   3199. The Good Face Posted: April 28, 2014 at 11:03 AM (#4695752)
The most interesting elements of the Sterling kerfuffle are that 1. A billionaire like Sterling couldn't score a more attractive, higher class of floozie and 2. He's putting up with such levels of backtalk and bullshit from what's essentially a whore. If she's not toeing the line, tell her to hit the bricks. Not like there's a paucity of smoking hot young things in LA looking for an "intimate relationship" with a billionaire NBA owner.
   3200. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 28, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4695757)
One of the awesome moments in Maher's rant came when he specifically called out 'cisgender' as an absurd option, without realizing that it's the correct title for his own gender ID.


But that kind of makes his point. It used to be that male and female were the genders. (Actually they were "sexes"; we've moved from the term "sex," which relates to biology, to the term "gender," which relates to societal/cultural factors.)
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