Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, December 02, 2012

OTP December 2012 - Pushing G.O.P. to Negotiate, Obama Ends Giving In

Mr. Obama, scarred by failed negotiations in his first term and emboldened by a clear if close election to a second, has emerged as a different kind of negotiator in the past week or two, sticking to the liberal line and frustrating Republicans on the other side of the bargaining table.

Bitter Mouse Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:15 PM | 6172 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 35 of 62 pages ‹ First  < 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 >  Last ›
   3401. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4327053)

The Byzantine Empire didn't collapse, so much as migrate. Baghdad is to Constantinople as Constantinople is to Rome.


That's nobody's business but the Turks...

What I'd probably do is try to gather a like-minded group and set up shop somewhere easily defensible... maybe with a patch of green space... there's a ballpark in my neighborhood that I would have in mind for such an endeavor!

Don't be silly. You'd stay in your mom's basement, just like the rest of us. And with any luck, you'd have enough food & water & such to stay down there for a loooooong time; remember what happened when the last survivor in the house in Night of the Living Dead stuck his head up to see what was going on ...


Heh... well, their current basement is about 1500 miles away, so I'm S-O-L now...

   3402. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:45 PM (#4327057)
Shredder just google "Romney uses tragedy for political gain", and you'll find a doezen op-ed pieces from REAL publications with headlines saying "Romney shamelessly exploits tragedy"...NOW..


Well in fairness he was using it for political gain, but since we were in the middle of an election I happen to think that is OK. And I suspect plenty of people on the other side were writing those editorials in a political effort (and not really what they thought).

I don't remember folks here using that argument (they might have, but I doubt I did).
   3403. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:45 PM (#4327058)
Obviously, every ballpark should have a basement, sort of like the immense underground caverns where the president & other national leaders are supposed to go in the event of a nuclear attack.
   3404. Shredder Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4327061)
Shredder just google "Romney uses tragedy for political gain", and you'll find a doezen op-ed pieces from REAL publications with headlines saying "Romney shamelessly exploits tragedy"...NOW..
As you note, there's a difference between using a tragedy as an opportunity to talk about what led to the tragedy and what we can do to keep similar things from happening in the future. That's what we're doing here. That's what congress is doing with Benghazi. I don't believe anyone used the tragic component of Benghazi as a shield against even reviewing what happened there, what the administration may have done right or wrong, and how to prevent such attacks from being successful in the future. That's a far cry from what the Romney campaign was doing, and from what Walnuts and Huckleberry have been doing for the last month.

FWIW, I don't think trying to politicize Benghazi really helped Romney at all, and probably hurt him more than anything.
   3405. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4327062)
My understanding of the "prepper" movement is that it's an obvious attempt to rebrand the militia movement so that people stop associating them with Tim McVeigh.
   3406. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4327067)
Obviously, every ballpark should have a basement, sort of like the immense underground caverns where the president & other national leaders are supposed to go in the event of a nuclear attack.


Most of them do.
   3407. hokieneer Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4327071)
Preppers are more like the supposedly very popular Doomsday Preppers show on NatGeo...


Yeah I'm aware of that show, never watched it. A few co workers were talking about it and just how ridiculous and wrong some of the people were, and in fact how it was likely a staged because no one who took that #### seriously would be on TV sharing their secret stash.

Growing up in WV, almost everyone has been a part of at least a few isolation storms/etc over the years and survived for days without "civilization". Hell one happened just this last June/July. Some people prep beyond that. I never really attributed it to paranoia, just to having a survivalist mentality.
   3408. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4327072)
Obviously, every ballpark should have a basement, sort of like the immense underground caverns where the president & other national leaders are supposed to go in the event of a nuclear attack.



Most of them do.


Yup - though - I'm not sure about the current ones... but most of the 60s/70s era cookie cutters that have been replaced were built so that they could also be used as bomb shelters.
   3409. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4327075)
Most of them do.


Hmmm. If society collapses while I'm at work, I'm only a mile for so from where the Biscuits play ...
   3410. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4327079)
Growing up in WV, almost everyone has been a part of at least a few isolation storms/etc over the years and survived for days without "civilization".


Can what they've got in West Va. properly be called "civilization"? (Note that I ask this as a native of Arkansas & a resident of Alabama; I know whereof I speak.)
   3411. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4327084)
Yup - though - I'm not sure about the current ones..


A lot of the facilities for the players - medical and such - and a lot of the grounds crew facilities are under the stadiums proper. It's just too much potential space to not use.
   3412. hokieneer Posted: December 17, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4327085)
Can what they've got in West Va. properly be called "civilization"? (Note that I ask this as a native of Arkansas & a resident of Alabama; I know whereof I speak.)


I put the quotes around it for a reason.

Occasionally we make it out of the holler to the supermarket.
   3413. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:03 PM (#4327089)
Love it!

Actually, a week ago I was back in my hometown for a pre-holiday visit, & I was taken aback to find that what AFAIK was the last grocery store around -- a Piggly Wiggly while I was growing up -- was closed. People now can go to either Dollar General or a very comparable second small discount store for food, I gather. For produce, I guess they either grow their own or raid the nearest farms.
   3414. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4327093)


Yeah I'm aware of that show, never watched it. A few co workers were talking about it and just how ridiculous and wrong some of the people were, and in fact how it was likely a staged because no one who took that #### seriously would be on TV sharing their secret stash.

Growing up in WV, almost everyone has been a part of at least a few isolation storms/etc over the years and survived for days without "civilization". Hell one happened just this last June/July. Some people prep beyond that. I never really attributed it to paranoia, just to having a survivalist mentality.


Sure -

Like I said, if you live in a rural area - especially in higher elevations/north prone to big snowfalls - it's just simple logic.... It happens... you're going to run into events that prevent 'getting out' for days, even a week+ at a time.

FWIW, even I've got an 'emergency kit' -- most of which is populated with various gifts from my rural family concerned about my safety 'living in the big city', but it's really just a tackle box with various simple medical supplies, a multitool and wrench, duct tape, etc.

Being at all prepared for a calamity or disruptive event is just common sense... it's the idea that I need to make my apartment into a well-supplied bunker for weeks at a time - much less, the foreseeable future - that I find silly.

Anything that extends beyond say... 72 hours -- my plan for survival most certainly doesn't include barring the door.
   3415. just plain joe Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4327094)
(Never owned or fired a gun in my life, FWIW, assuming a BB gun doesn't count.)


Well, you can put your eye out with one of those, so probably, yeah.
   3416. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4327101)
My only real prep for a post-apocalyptic scenario, aside from the compound down in the swamps, is a general plan to arm up and traipse around the east coast until I find Kneepants...
   3417. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4327107)
My only real prep for a post-apocalyptic scenario, aside from the compound down in the swamps, is a general plan to arm up and traipse around the east coast until I find Kneepants...


Crashing on his couch?

I call Ray's place!
   3418. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4327108)
Crashing on his couch?


Yep. *At gunpoint.*
   3419. SteveF Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4327112)
I've stockpiled antibiotics. That #### will be worth more than gold. Eat your heart out, Rance.
   3420. Tripon Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4327114)
Don't antibiotics expire. Wouldn't it be more prudent to invest in bacterial farms?
   3421. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4327116)
Suhweet...

Who knew my laundry hamper would be so valuable?
   3422. Mefisto Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4327117)
Wouldn't it be more prudent to invest in bacterial farms?


Mouldy cheese?
   3423. SteveF Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4327118)
Don't antibiotics expire.


Some do, like tetracycline. Some don't, like amoxicillin. I'm ashamed I know that. (And by not expiring, what I mean is they just become proportionately less effective over time instead of poisonous.)
   3424. hokieneer Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4327120)
Being at all prepared for a calamity or disruptive event is just common sense... it's the idea that I need to make my apartment into a well-supplied bunker for weeks at a time - much less, the foreseeable future - that I find silly.

Anything that extends beyond say... 72 hours -- my plan for survival most certainly doesn't include barring the door.



In a true, end of the world society falling apart scenario, you are ###### by living in an urban area anyway. People (and Zombies!) are the real dangers.
   3425. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4327127)
People (and Zombies!) are the real dangers.


As if zombies aren't people.

Hate speech!
   3426. hokieneer Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:32 PM (#4327128)
Actually, a week ago I was back in my hometown for a pre-holiday visit, & I was taken aback to find that what AFAIK was the last grocery store around -- a Piggly Wiggly while I was growing up -- was closed. People now can go to either Dollar General or a very comparable second small discount store for food, I gather. For produce, I guess they either grow their own or raid the nearest farms.


We had TWO! grocery stores growing up, both that carried some produce. The one that has since shut down, was opened and owned by a local farmer, so most of the produce that was stocked was from his farm. There is still one grocery store, for now. There is now also a Dollar General that I suppose serves as a defacto supermarket. There is also a pretty big gas station, deli, semi-convenient store combo.
   3427. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:34 PM (#4327134)
In a true, end of the world society falling apart scenario, you are ###### by living in an urban area anyway. People (and Zombies!) are the real dangers.


Not if I plan to become the kinder, gentler version of 'The Governor'!

In all seriousness, though - yeah - if #### took a turn for that degree of worse, my 72 hour plan would be taking stock the situation in a very sober way after 24 hours, assessing in hours 24-48 whether I could find enough like-minded folks to band together, and hours 49+ getting out of dodge if not. Even by foot - I could make my destination by hour 72. I suppose my lack of firearm ownership would make the trek dangerous, but I'd be traveling light with the idea that I can shed whatever I've got on me.

   3428. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4327140)
People (and Zombies!) are the real dangers.



As if zombies aren't people.

Hate speech!


Settle down, Hershel... Walkers ain't people.
   3429. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4327143)
We had TWO! grocery stores growing up, both that carried some produce.


We had four.

But no traffic lights. And still don't.
   3430. Tripon Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4327144)

Not if I plan to become the kinder, gentler version of 'The Governor'!


Will you still try to #### your undead niece?
   3431. hokieneer Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:42 PM (#4327151)
But no traffic lights. And still don't.


No traffic lights either. Though the legend has it there was this one light in town some time before I was born. I always assumed someone got tired of waiting and took care of it with their 12-gauge.
   3432. Tripon Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4327156)
Authorities seized nine guns from an East Hollywood home where a 24-year-old man was arrested after allegedly posting on Facebook a threat of shootings at multiple elementary schools, police said.

Kyle Bangayan, 24, of Pomona, was arrested Sunday at his parents' home in the 1200 block of North New Hampshire Avenue, the Los Angeles Police Department said. He was booked on suspicion of making criminal threats and held on $500,000 bail.

Los Angeles police officers and FBI agents found the weapons — rifles, a shotgun and multiple handguns — along with ammunition, the LAPD said. It was not immediately known to whom the guns belonged.

A search of Bangayan's home in Pomona turned up no weapons or other "related evidence," authorities said.
   3433. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4327159)
Not if I plan to become the kinder, gentler version of 'The Governor'!



Will you still try to #### your undead niece?


Nope - this is why I'd be a kindler, gentler version... not a trace of necrophelia and human heads are the absolute last thing I'd keep in fish tanks.
   3434. Manny Coon Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4327169)
Not to paint with broad strokes, but Utah has a firearm ownership rate of 43.9% in 2007.


John Browning was Mormon and the M1911 semi-automatic handgun is the state gun, it's definitely part of the culture. A lot of it is driven from the early days of the LDS, where they were often persecuted and fought back. It's in many ways of a religion born in the wild west. Despite this Utah is a pretty safe place.

The M1911 design is over 100 years old, there are civilian models from before WW1, so people with access to highly deadly guns isn't any kind of new thing.
   3435. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4327174)
Yup - though - I'm not sure about the current ones... but most of the 60s/70s era cookie cutters that have been replaced were built so that they could also be used as bomb shelters.


I think you could put the President in the middle of the Oakland Coliseum because no one would want to bomb that ugly thing anyway
   3436. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4327177)
Obama Administration let security funds for schools lapse.

Well if this isn't taking advantage of a tragedy for political purposes, I don't know what is.
   3437. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4327183)
Teachers packing heat is the way to go.


And one more from Rep Gohmert
   3438. zonk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:21 PM (#4327184)
Obama Administration let security funds for schools lapse.

Well if this isn't taking advantage of a tragedy for political purposes, I don't know what is.


Heh... reading through that -- which mentions an an awful lot of programs and funding that lapsed in "2011" and "2012" -- it's almost as if something happened in 2010 that had an impact on budgeting!
   3439. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4327187)
Obama Administration let security funds for schools lapse.


Wait, I thought teapers were against government spending?

Oh, nevermind, just crazies...

The first comment:

We don't have funds to protect our children but, we have money to send the half-breed, gay, POS who is pretending to be president and his fat-assed wife on vacations. Come on, America! Let's do something about this!
   3440. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4327188)
Authorities seized nine guns from an East Hollywood home where a 24-year-old man was arrested after allegedly posting on Facebook a threat of shootings at multiple elementary schools, police said.

Kyle Bangayan, 24, of Pomona, was arrested Sunday at his parents' home in the 1200 block of North New Hampshire Avenue, the Los Angeles Police Department said. He was booked on suspicion of making criminal threats and held on $500,000 bail.

Los Angeles police officers and FBI agents found the weapons — rifles, a shotgun and multiple handguns — along with ammunition, the LAPD said. It was not immediately known to whom the guns belonged.

A search of Bangayan's home in Pomona turned up no weapons or other "related evidence," authorities said.


Keep talking and tweeting and Facebooking, crazies. The better to smoke you out.
   3441. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4327189)
A school and the city running it most likely couldn't even get insurance if there were assault weapons all over the place.

It's an ignorant, stupid, absurd idea that deserves no audience.
   3442. zenbitz Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4327192)
   3443. JE (Jason) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 06:55 PM (#4327210)
Aloha, Senator Daniel Inouye, 88.
   3444. Shredder Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4327214)
Aloha, Senator Daniel Inouye, 88.
I was just watching that documentary about hardcore punk last night in which his son, who was in the band Marginal Man, was interviewed.
   3445. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:24 PM (#4327229)
The Byzantine Empire didn't collapse, so much as migrate. Baghdad is to Constantinople as Constantinople is to Rome.

That's nobody's business but the Turks...


I guess you could sort of claim that Ankara is to Constantinople as Constantinople is to Rome...

But Baghdad? Can't see it.


As far as Constantinople/Istanbul, as name changes go, rather than being ideologically/politically motivated, that one was pretty innocent. Istanbul is basically derived from the Greek phrase "The City," and was basically an alternative name for Constantinople even before the Turks conquered it. The Ottomans themselves the used both names until the 20th Century- when one name was officially adopted- by their POSTAL SERVICE, because, you know, the postal authorities really want places to have only one name if at all possible.



   3446. spike Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4327230)
Inouye was one of those guys that probably deserved the title "The Greatest Generation"
   3447. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4327236)
Inouye was one of those guys that probably deserved the title "The Greatest Generation"

That's the understatement of the year.
   3448. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4327238)
   3449. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:48 PM (#4327240)
Nick--

In case you're interested, and regarding your earlier post declaring that the average person a way back was borderline developmentally disabled, here's an exam you needed to pass in order to graduate from 8th grade in 1895.

From the geography section:

1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.


You have one hour. Go!
   3450. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 17, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4327244)
Regarding 3449, if you actually went back to 1895 and answered 1, 2, 3, 8 and 9 "correctly" (in accord with today's beliefs) you likely would have gotten an F and been labeled an "idiot" or an "imbecile"
   3451. Shredder Posted: December 17, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4327250)
In case you're interested, and regarding your earlier post declaring that the average person a way back was borderline developmentally disabled, here's an exam you needed to pass in order to graduate from 8th grade in 1895.
Here's the snopes entry for that test.
   3452. Morty Causa Posted: December 17, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4327255)
What surprised me most was that Snopes didn't show it was a hoax. So, that was actually a test given in 1895 to eighth-graders?
   3453. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 17, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4327256)
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?


1607: Susenyos I deposed his cousin and became Emperor of Ethiopia, and imposed Roman Catholicism as the official state religion
1620: The Merry Go Round was invented
1800: World population hit 1 billion, the "Act of Union," officially made Ireland part of the United Kingdom, Napoleon crossed the Alps, lots of stuff
1849: Garibaldi enters Rome, but alas the French later kick him out later in the year (BTW my old house was not far from Garibaldi's Staten Island residence)
1865: The War of the Triple Alliance began with Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay taking on Paraguay (The North Korea of its day, seriously)

what, what do you mean I failed?
   3454. Srul Itza Posted: December 17, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4327258)
The news about Senator Dan is hitting hard, out here.


   3455. Morty Causa Posted: December 17, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4327261)
That leaves Weicker and Baker as the surviving Flying Hellfish members of the Senate Watergate Committee tontine.
   3456. Tilden Katz Posted: December 17, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4327314)
Inouye's last word was allegedly "Aloha". Live a badass, die a badass. One of the last great war heroes in politics.
   3457. Jay Z Posted: December 17, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4327315)
My understanding of the "prepper" movement is that it's an obvious attempt to rebrand the militia movement so that people stop associating them with Tim McVeigh.


Well, it worked for a while, anyway.
   3458. Lassus Posted: December 17, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4327317)
For anyone not aware, this is how bad a badass Inouye was:

On April 21, 1945, Inouye was grievously wounded while leading an assault on a heavily-defended ridge near San Terenzo in Tuscany, Italy called Colle Musatello. The ridge served as a strongpoint along the strip of German fortifications known as the Gothic Line, which represented the last and most dogged line of German defensive works in Italy. As he led his platoon in a flanking maneuver, three German machine guns opened fire from covered positions just 40 yards away, pinning his men to the ground. Inouye stood up to attack and was shot in the stomach; ignoring his wound, he proceeded to attack and destroy the first machine gun nest with hand grenades and fire from his Thompson submachine gun. After being informed of the severity of his wound by his platoon sergeant, he refused treatment and rallied his men for an attack on the second machine gun position, which he also successfully destroyed before collapsing from blood loss.

As his squad distracted the third machine gunner, Inouye crawled toward the final bunker, eventually drawing within 10 yards. As he raised himself up and cocked his arm to throw his last grenade into the fighting position, a German inside fired a rifle grenade that struck him on the right elbow, severing most of his arm and leaving his own primed grenade reflexively "clenched in a fist that suddenly didn't belong to me anymore". Inouye's horrified soldiers moved to his aid, but he shouted for them to keep back out of fear his severed fist would involuntarily relax and drop the grenade. As the German inside the bunker reloaded his rifle, Inouye pried the live grenade from his useless right hand and transferred it to his left. As the German aimed his rifle to finish him off, Inouye tossed the grenade off-hand into the bunker and destroyed it. He stumbled to his feet and continued forward, silencing the last German resistance with a one-handed burst from his Thompson before being wounded in the leg and tumbling unconscious to the bottom of the ridge. When he awoke to see the concerned men of his platoon hovering over him, his only comment before being carried away was to gruffly order them to return to their positions, since, as he pointed out, "nobody called off the war!"
   3459. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 17, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4327333)
Jack (#3449),

Regarding that test, I have no doubt as to its authenticity, and in fact here's another test for "First Intermediate" pupils of Washington, D. C., during the 1872-83 school year.

I'll limit it to five questions in Geography and a list of the words that they had to spell correctly.

GEOGRAPHY
2. In what part of Hindoostan is the Deccan?
3. How is Singapore situated, and in what direction is it from Calcutta?
7. Into what three parts is Oceanica divided?
8. In which division of Oceanica are the greatest number of large islands?
9. Name the divisions of Australia.

SPELLING
Czar
wrought
assuage
cymbal
column
prairie
receptacle
canticle
pageantry
synonyme (sic---many words back then added a silent "e", and many foreign names like "Lenine" were widely used well into the 20th century)
buccaneer
financier
petrified
immersion
coercion
tenacious
umbrageous
recollection
hypocrite
progenitor

Oh, and I should have mentioned that in 1873 D. C., "First Intermediate" consisted of 9 year olds.

And one more little factoid: This was the exam for the Colored Schools.

(SOURCE: Annual Report of the Board of Trustees and Superintendent of Colored Schools of Washington and Georgetown, 1872-73.)

Of course what that leaves out is the attendance relative to the population base, and the percentage of students who never made it out of intermediate school, or even out of the previous primary grades, or even made it into any school in the first place. To give you an idea of the scope of the problem, the introduction to this same report notes that the combined 1870 Colored population of Washington and Georgetown was 38,726. Of that, 28,843 over the age of 10 were illiterate.

In short, it's safe to say that there's never exactly been a Golden Age of education.
   3460. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 17, 2012 at 10:33 PM (#4327341)
I confess my shame at being amused by this unplanned succession of posts:

Inouye was one of those guys that probably deserved the title "The Greatest Generation"

That's the understatement of the year.

Alan Jacobs at TAC, on the fallacies of "arm everyone."
   3461. Lassus Posted: December 17, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4327349)
Inouye on gun control:

Voted NO on allowing firearms in checked baggage on Amtrak trains.
Voted YES on prohibiting foreign & UN aid that restricts US gun ownership. (There weren't any no votes)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence.
Voted YES on background checks at gun shows.
Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks.

Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.
   3462. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 17, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4327360)
Regarding that test, I have no doubt as to its authenticity, and in fact here's another test for "First Intermediate" pupils of Washington, D. C., during the 1872-83 school year.


Wow, Andy -- you're a lot older than I thought.

Did Harveys ever babysit you?
   3463. Rants Mulliniks Posted: December 17, 2012 at 10:59 PM (#4327361)
I've stockpiled antibiotics. That #### will be worth more than gold. Eat your heart out, Rance.


Thanks Steve, I genuinely got a chuckle out of that. And as much as I'd like to say I have a stockpile of gold, not quite.
   3464. tshipman Posted: December 17, 2012 at 11:34 PM (#4327382)
The issue is not whether fewer guns would result in fewer gun deaths; it's whether fewer guns would result in fewer deaths. Who cares what the weapon of choice was, if the result is the same? And you first need to establish that gun laws do an adequate job of preventing maniacs from getting guns.


I am disappoint in my fellow liberals. Ray expresses a testable hypothesis, and no one takes up the challenge.

See, here's the thing, we can test whether gun control increases deaths. And people have in fact tested it. With a hat tip to the excellent Monkey Cage blog.

Does access to arms promote violent crime? We exploit a natural experiment induced by the 2004 expiration of the U.S. Federal Assault Weapons Ban to examine how the subsequent exogenous increase in the availability of lethal weaponry affected violence in Mexico. The expiration relaxed the permissiveness of gun sales in border states such as Texas, Arizona and New Mexico, but not California, which retained a pre-existing state-level ban.


...

Our estimates suggest that the U.S. policy change caused at least 239 additional deaths annually in municipios near the border during post-2004 period. The results are robust to controls for drug trafficking, policing, unauthorized immigration, and economic conditions in U.S. border ports, as well as drug eradication, military enforcement, and trends in income and education in Mexican municipios.


And this is just tracking the expiration of the assault weapons ban, which had a number of gaping loopholes. Increased access to guns increases murder rates and other violent crime.

This is testable.

The Byzantine Empire didn't collapse, so much as migrate. Baghdad is to Constantinople as Constantinople is to Rome.


This is really, really wrong. Constantinople had very little impact on the Caliphate or the subsequent Sultanate. If you want to trace the development of Arab civ, you have to look to Persia.
   3465. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: December 17, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4327397)
I just saw this on facebook from the conservatives club photo, quite an epic fail I would say.
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were round
ed up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.
You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~
   3466. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 18, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4327407)
Btw, if no one linked to it, here's a photo of the Bushmaster. Nasty looking thing, but my penis indeed grew to five times it's normal size just from looking at it.

What surprised me most was that Snopes didn't show it was a hoax. So, that was actually a test given in 1895 to eighth-graders?
I believe so. Nick's point pages back was that 100 years ago the average adult was dd by today's standards. Not if that was their 8th grade closing exam.
   3467. DA Baracus Posted: December 18, 2012 at 12:32 AM (#4327409)
What surprised me most was that Snopes didn't show it was a hoax.

Snopes didn't claim the test wasn't authentic, they claimed it didn't "demonstrate a shocking decline in educational standards."
   3468. Tripon Posted: December 18, 2012 at 12:34 AM (#4327410)
I believe so. Nick's point pages back was that 100 years ago the average adult was dd by today's standards. Not if that was their 8th grade closing exam.


100 years ago, in 1912, I doubt the majority of the American population would have been able to finish 8th grade. They would have already have gone to work. The concept of all children going to school and learning until they're adults is very much of a modern ideal.
   3469. GregD Posted: December 18, 2012 at 12:48 AM (#4327419)
I believe so. Nick's point pages back was that 100 years ago the average adult was dd by today's standards. Not if that was their 8th grade closing exam.
The two statements here are not at all mutually exclusive. If a small percentage of students finish 8th grade, then you can have amazingly successful 8th graders and also a very unimpressive overall population.

Something like 10-15% of students went to high school a hundred years ago. I would not at all be surprised that a good chunk of these 10-15% performed at very high levels.

I think in North Carolina the average elementary school-age student went to 20-30 days of school a year in the 1890s.
   3470. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 18, 2012 at 01:12 AM (#4327430)
What surprised me most was that Snopes didn't show it was a hoax. So, that was actually a test given in 1895 to eighth-graders?


I believe so. Nick's point pages back was that 100 years ago the average adult was dd by today's standards. Not if that was their 8th grade closing exam.

Problem is that the "average" adult then didn't make it to eighth grade in the first place, and trotting out eighth grade or fourth grade tests from 115 or 140 years ago is fun, but it doesn't prove anything other than that children were expected to learn different things back in those days than they're expected to learn today.

One more fun example from early 1870's Washington: Sixth graders then were expected to draw what they called "Memory Maps" of the United States, taken strictly from their own knowledge of the boundaries and with no visual promptings. I've seen some of those maps (the LOC bought some from another book dealer friend of mine), and the virtuosity is frankly amazing. These kids had memorized the coastlines of the entire country to such an accurate degree that in some cases you'd think they'd simply traced it from a geography text. Again, these were sixth graders in a public school, not young prodigys from an art school. But this was something they took pride in and were rewarded for doing, and when kids have real motivation to accomplish something, there's no telling what they can do.

And the point about those IQ scores rising over the years was never about native intelligence, but rather about the human capacity to absorb knowledge that it's exposed to. And since the world of knowledge is vastly greater today than it's ever been, it's only natural that IQs would rise if scores were graded on a fixed scale that was set 100 years ago. And while the ability of an elementary school pupil to memorize the coastline of the United States or to spell "pageantry" without the aid of spellcheck can amaze us in our age of relying on "the internet" to tell us anything we "need to know", the sort of mind expansion encompassed in those mental exercises pales in comparison to the sort of knowledge that's necessary for a child to function in the 21st century. Not that it wouldn't be nice if everyone actually knew how to spell the word "the". (smile)

EDIT: cokes to Tripon and Greg. Those two points are most certainly not mutually exclusive.
   3471. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 18, 2012 at 01:19 AM (#4327432)
100 years ago, in 1912, I doubt the majority of the American population would have been able to finish 8th grade. They would have already have gone to work.

Yep.

Of course child labor laws back then were derided as "socialism" by the same sort of characters who today see "tyranny" in Obamacare. The Kehoskies and the DiPernas have always been with us, and will probably outlive the ####### cockroaches, bless their hearts.
   3472. Tripon Posted: December 18, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4327439)
Monday, Huckabee is apparently joined by the supreme leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ali Khamenei. According to Digarban, an independent Web outlet that covers the Iranian media, one of Khamenei’s official representatives announced that a “lack of religion in the United States is the main reason of the school shooting.”


   3473. RollingWave Posted: December 18, 2012 at 01:33 AM (#4327440)
Teachers packing heat is the way to go.


And one more from Rep Gohmert.


well I guess that at least solve the disobidience in schools these days ....

   3474. Tilden Katz Posted: December 18, 2012 at 01:46 AM (#4327445)
New frontrunner in the most insane Newtown response. I especially love how the attack means having to have a "frank discussion race and culture".
   3475. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: December 18, 2012 at 01:58 AM (#4327448)
New frontrunner in the most insane Newtown response. I especially love how the attack means having to have a "frank discussion race and culture".
Funnily enough, the steps to stop gun tragedies coincide with the GOP agenda: Crushing unions, double down on the War on Drugs, push religion, and for good measure also play Big Brother to media. Who would have thunk it?
   3476. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 18, 2012 at 02:00 AM (#4327449)
Voter fraud only affect one vote, and can only be effective on one day, and there's little evidence that the United States suffers from widespread voter fraud.
This is wrong.

There is zero evidence that the U.S. suffers from widespread voter fraud of the kind that restrictive ID laws at polling stations pretends to address.

Except, of course, for the fact that there has been pretty much NO evidence to support any need for voter ID laws, but tons of evidence that the easy availability of guns leads to incidents like this.
Again, due respect, no. There isn't pretty much no evidence, there IS no remotely compelling evidence. Let's not help them by pretending there's any sort of rationale behind their caterwauling.

I find myself nodding in agreement with every comment Ray makes,...
You should get that looked at.
   3477. Tilden Katz Posted: December 18, 2012 at 02:08 AM (#4327452)
Funnily enough, the steps to stop gun tragedies coincide with the GOP agenda: Crushing unions, double down on the War on Drugs, push religion, and for good measure also play Big Brother to media. Who would have thunk it?


Hey man, we wouldn't have so many school shootings if these kids didn't get so many boners from watching TV.
   3478. RollingWave Posted: December 18, 2012 at 03:35 AM (#4327474)
Also, the general theory on gun possesion is that you simply don't trust other people with them... but you'll trust your kids to teachers with guns? huh?

   3479. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 18, 2012 at 03:49 AM (#4327476)
I find myself nodding in agreement with every comment Ray makes,...

You should get that looked at.


The fact is that I am right that no policy will stop this kind of crazy that hasn't revealed itself yet as such because nothing can stop it save for some miracle on the scene, and therefore this sidebar discussion pushing for more gun control is utterly childish, and, frankly, embarrassing. It's like people here have no idea how the world works.
   3480. RollingWave Posted: December 18, 2012 at 05:13 AM (#4327483)
The fact is that I am right that no policy will stop this kind of crazy that hasn't revealed itself yet as such because nothing can stop it save for some miracle on the scene, and therefore this sidebar discussion pushing for more gun control is utterly childish, and, frankly, embarrassing. It's like people here have no idea how the world works.


Oh, there are plenty of policy that will reduce these sort of things to a great extend, the problem is that most of them involve different degree of rights intrution.

If you could for example... lock away all mentally illed people, confiscate all guns, and go make all drug / alchohal possession / manufacturing / distribution / consumption a capital offense, then this sort of thing will almost never happen, of course, it creates a ton of problem of it's own.

   3481. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 18, 2012 at 06:21 AM (#4327487)
If we accept that we can't stop madmen from shooting innocents, isn't reasonable to say that we will ensure such madmen (and non-dangerous, non-madmen) will be limited to arms that provide a much more limited capacity, thus lowering the body counts when such madmen do what they do?

My understanding is that the Gabby Giffords shooter had a conventional handgun with conventional capacity, whereas both the Aurora and Newtown shooters had weapons with extended clips...

Rather than limiting types of guns available - why can't we limit capacity, regardless of type?


Certainly seems like one of the best ways to approach the problem. The whining from a few that it won't solve the problem is meaningless. If it makes a dent in the problem, that will matter to the people whose lives it saves and their families.

The seemingly intractable problem of drunk-driving was usefully addressed by laws that changed permissable blood alcohol levels. Repeat offenders were dealt with more severely. Similar, incremental changes to guns laws, such as decreasing magazine size, will have a comparable effect in reducing gun violence. Even 5% matters.

I'm much more in favor of laws that affect mechanical issues like magazine size than I am trying to police the mental health of gun owners. I don't see the latter as possible without introducing a whole range of problems associated with government intervention into and assessment of things like level of paranoia, belief system, and so on.

It strikes me as being a lot like trying to decrease deaths from drunk driving by having the police try to ascertain danger without having blood alcohol testing behind enforcement. It would be a lot like, 'how drunk is that person, given their size?', or 'given the number of drinks they've had, does their natural coordination leave them better able than someone else to drive after that much to drink,?' and so forth. What a mess, without any promise of improvement.

It's like people here have no idea how the world works.


I'll be chuckling for days. Thanks!
   3482. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 18, 2012 at 08:44 AM (#4327502)
i appreciate the focus on the issue of guns but regarding the 'other topic'

The White House offer marks a major shift for the president—Mr. Obama since his first run for the White House has campaigned to allow Bush-era tax rates to expire for households making above $250,000—and raises the question of whether he will be able to sell such a deal to his own party.

As part of the offer, the president lowered the amount of tax revenue he is seeking in a deal from $1.4 trillion to $1.2 trillion. He also agreed to accept a GOP proposal to slow Social Security growth by using a different inflation formula to calculate cost-of-living increases, people familiar with the matter said.

One potential stumbling block is a White House request to raise the nation's borrowing limit for two years, something Republicans are likely to oppose. Mr. Obama's offer also calls for increased spending for infrastructure, a temporary extension of unemployment insurance benefits and a permanent extension of other tax breaks that expire at the end of the year.

The president's offer notably didn't include a Republican proposal to increase the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67, an idea opposed by many Democrats.


courtesy wsj

president takes 250k up to 400k

and the president is working toward a deal that doesn't embarrass the other side. which is sensible.

   3483. Rants Mulliniks Posted: December 18, 2012 at 08:48 AM (#4327504)
The fact is that I am right that no policy will stop this kind of crazy that hasn't revealed itself yet as such because nothing can stop it save for some miracle on the scene, and therefore this sidebar discussion pushing for more gun control is utterly childish, and, frankly, embarrassing. It's like people here have no idea how the world works.


Banning anything is a knee jerk reaction, but there are certainly some legslative tweaks that can be made. In Canada, guns and ammo must be stored in a locked cabinet. That would have helped in this case. I know there's the whole "but what if someone breaks into my house at 2 am" thing. Well, take one gun out of your cabinet and put it under your pillow for the night. You could also legislate that anyone on SSRI meds cannot own a firearm.

The fact remains that almost all western government policy, and maybe the entire world's, is technocratic and tries to distill every societal ill into a direct, mechanical cause and effect scenario, when as Ray says, the world doesn't work that way.

In regards to legislated blood alcohol levels - yes, it makes for a more predictable outcome for a driver, but it doesn't make it a fair law. There are many factors other than simple BAL that determine whether a person is impaired or not. Done competently (a big stretch, especially with all the ####### Rambo cops out there today), a roadside sobriety test reveals more about someone's reaction time, awareness and general ability to drive than does a breathalyzer result. But since we need to have a numerical answer for everything, we treat someone who could easily drive safely after smashing back a pint of Jack Daniels the same as someone who is visibly hammered after two beer (I've known people like this, and they didn't weigh 100 lbs).
   3484. Lassus Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:10 AM (#4327511)
The fact is that I am right that no policy will stop this kind of crazy that hasn't revealed itself yet as such because nothing can stop it save for some miracle on the scene, and therefore this sidebar discussion pushing for more gun control is utterly childish, and, frankly, embarrassing. It's like people here have no idea how the world works.

Ray, many reasonable posts have been brought up countering your endless shoe-banging on the podium. Could you possibly at least reasonably address one or two of them and give a better reason for them being embarrassing rather than "IT JUST IS"?
   3485. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:12 AM (#4327512)
The fact is that I am right that no policy will stop this kind of crazy that hasn't revealed itself yet as such because nothing can stop it save for some miracle on the scene, and therefore this sidebar discussion pushing for more gun control is utterly childish, and, frankly, embarrassing. It's like people here have no idea how the world works.


This is a fine assertion, but just that. There is no evidence, no logic supporting it, nothing (heck even the really great analogy to how random gun violence is just like a disease has been removed). People have showed how fewer guns means fewer deaths.

Do you have anything other than an assertion of helplessness. Is "I give up, I can't think of anything" really your answer (and bizarrly one you are smug about)? So there is no public policy change you are willing to advance to make the world safer, we are at the pinnicle of safety right here and now, and no improvement can be made? It is sheer luck (magic) that other countries have much lower rates of gun violence than the US does (and lower rates of overall violence)?

It would be reasonable to assert that any change we make comes at a cost, and that cost in money, freedom or whatever would be greater than the benefit (arguable, but at least a reasonable argument). But to assert that nothing could be done, unlike pretty much every other societal health issue in human history, is really really weak.

Must be Tuesday.
   3486. Rants Mulliniks Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4327513)
Problem is that the "average" adult then didn't make it to eighth grade in the first place, and trotting out eighth grade or fourth grade tests from 115 or 140 years ago is fun, but it doesn't prove anything other than that children were expected to learn different things back in those days than they're expected to learn today.


The fact that the average student didn't make it to 8th grade has far less to do with the education system of the day that the economics of the day. We are talking about the relative merits of education systems, not the population. If someone only went to Grade 8 and then dropped out to work on the farm or in the woods, we cannot hold that against the education system. A person with a Grade 8 education 100 years ago had better employment prospects than someone with a high school diploma today, so do you think the fact that not everyone goes to university is a failing of the public school system?

The thing is, children aren't expected to learn anything today. You don't have to achieve a passing grade on anything. My wife has had two students, from different school districts, who told her that they never passed math once in twelve years of public schooling. Yep somehow, they got diplomas.

   3487. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:18 AM (#4327515)
The fact remains that almost all western government policy, and maybe the entire world's, is technocratic and tries to distill every societal ill into a direct, mechanical cause and effect scenario, when as Ray says, the world doesn't work that way.


Except then you go on to talk about drunk driving. Where a societal ill was assaulted over many years and rates of drunk driving deaths dropped a whole bunch.

In regards to legislated blood alcohol levels - yes, it makes for a more predictable outcome for a driver, but it doesn't make it a fair law.


Feel free to argue the fairness of the law, but that is very different than suggesting it has not worked. It and all the other initiatives (stigmitizing drunk driving, other messaging, safe cab programs and so on) has resulted in fewer deaths. Feel free to suggest we live in an alcolhol gulag with our rights haveing been ripped from us (or whatever) and so the fewer deaths are not worth it, but pretending the problem was unsolvable, nothing could be done, is ridiculous on the face because something was done and it (from a fatality standpoint) worked.

Just like gun violence could be attacked in a comprehensive fashion and deaths from that reduced. The only sensible argument is whether it is worth it or not. Suggesting we are helpless and nothing can be done is pathetic.
   3488. Lassus Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:24 AM (#4327516)
The thing is, children aren't expected to learn anything today. You don't have to achieve a passing grade on anything. My wife has had two students, from different school districts, who told her that they never passed math once in twelve years of public schooling. Yep somehow, they got diplomas.

The general "no kid today is ever graded any more on anything ever" is hyperbolic to the point of pointlessness.
   3489. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4327518)
i have to confess that when i skim the last few pages i imagine one of the posters here being the drug lord from the movie robocop going 'guns, guns, guns'

i now return you to your back and forth of a more serious nature
   3490. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:34 AM (#4327520)
The general "no kid today is ever graded any more on anything ever" is hyperbolic to the point of pointlessness.


My kids would much prefer it that way, but no there are grades and homework, and things do matter.

By the wayregarding schooling I am not an expert but regarding teaching I do know that things have changed much in the last 30 plus years because educators have studied the issue and made changes. One place I know has gotton better (at least from when I was in school) is math. They teach algebra and other like concepts much earlier and in a much better fashion than they did back in the day.

The worst thing in modern schools is the shortened lunch and recess. It is crazy how little run around and act like kids time they have versus my memory of it.
   3491. spike Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:56 AM (#4327521)
The worst thing in modern schools is the shortened lunch and recess. It is crazy how little run around and act like kids time they have versus my memory of it.

That's spot on. I keep my child in aftercare just so she can get some social free time.
   3492. Rants Mulliniks Posted: December 18, 2012 at 09:58 AM (#4327522)
The general "no kid today is ever graded any more on anything ever" is hyperbolic to the point of pointlessness.


I didn't say no kid, but its certainly no longer a hard and fast rule that you need to actually pass to move to the next grade.
   3493. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4327527)
Problem is that the "average" adult then didn't make it to eighth grade in the first place, and trotting out eighth grade or fourth grade tests from 115 or 140 years ago is fun, but it doesn't prove anything other than that children were expected to learn different things back in those days than they're expected to learn today.

The fact that the average student didn't make it to 8th grade has far less to do with the education system of the day that the economics of the day.


Of course, but so what? If you could let the schools of today expel every lagging student by the time they got to sixth grade, I'm sure they could produce a far more advanced "product". Our sixth grade goddaughter goes to a public intermediate school in Washington, where she gets 3 hours of homework a night. She might not be able to spell "assuage" on the first try, but I don't think she would have had much problem holding her own in the schools of 1873 or 1895.

--------------------------------------------------

The worst thing in modern schools is the shortened lunch and recess. It is crazy how little run around and act like kids time they have versus my memory of it.

Absolutely true. But when you've got Type A parents who are prepping their kids for Harvard when they're still in diapers, it's not that long a road to seeing recess and gym as "unproductive" time.
   3494. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4327529)
That's spot on. I keep my child in aftercare just so she can get some social free time.


I pay school taxes so you people's spawn will be locked up during the day.
   3495. zonk Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:16 AM (#4327530)
The White House offer marks a major shift for the president—Mr. Obama since his first run for the White House has campaigned to allow Bush-era tax rates to expire for households making above $250,000—and raises the question of whether he will be able to sell such a deal to his own party.

As part of the offer, the president lowered the amount of tax revenue he is seeking in a deal from $1.4 trillion to $1.2 trillion. He also agreed to accept a GOP proposal to slow Social Security growth by using a different inflation formula to calculate cost-of-living increases, people familiar with the matter said.

One potential stumbling block is a White House request to raise the nation's borrowing limit for two years, something Republicans are likely to oppose. Mr. Obama's offer also calls for increased spending for infrastructure, a temporary extension of unemployment insurance benefits and a permanent extension of other tax breaks that expire at the end of the year.

The president's offer notably didn't include a Republican proposal to increase the Medicare eligibility age from 65 to 67, an idea opposed by many Democrats.

courtesy wsj

president takes 250k up to 400k

and the president is working toward a deal that doesn't embarrass the other side. which is sensible.


It looks to -- surprisingly - like a deal will come to pass.

I don't like the debt ceiling limit used in negotiations - but the simple fact is that the law is the law, and even if the limit is bad/unconstitutional, the realities are that Treasury won't be able to effectively manage the debt if new paper is issued under a legal cloud. Whether the next 3 branch control period is Dem or GOP -- I really do hope they're smart enough to just get rid of it. If Congress doesn't want the President to borrow money to pay for spending that Congress has previously allocated, then Congress shouldn't allocate the spending. The debt ceiling is nothing more than a political football used by both sides - though, it ought to be noted - never to the extent (at least since its inception as a check on Wilson's war powers) it is by the current GOP.

I'm not all that upset about the chained CPI - in fact, my anger on this is mainly directed at liberals who improperly portray it as a "cut to benefits", when in fact - it's a change in the calculation of benefits growth that will simply lead to a lower/smaller curve in such growth. As a new deal Dem - I certainly support expanding SS... but I don't want to do it via backdoor methods like using flawed formulas. The Chained CPI is near universally agreed to be a more sound factor than the current CPI. I'm fine with this.

The unspecified $400 billion in additional cuts DO concern me... However, it sounds like this is basically going to be a negotiation between Reid and Boehner, and Reid seems to have found his stones since holding off Chicken Lady for reelect - so be it.

Ultimately, I'm not so sure this isn't a better deal for the GOP than the Democrats -- Club for Growth pissing and moaning aside (that's a nice bonus, I guess) -- but the parameters are good enough that I'd tepidly support it, if I had a vote.
   3496. spike Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:16 AM (#4327531)
its certainly no longer a hard and fast rule that you need to actually pass to move to the next grade.

I am going to say that was never true. Kids have been moved along in schools since they were invented.
   3497. spike Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:16 AM (#4327532)
I pay school taxes so you people's spawn will be locked up during the day.

Aftercare is on my dime.
   3498. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:27 AM (#4327540)
zonk

as i shared in the lounge early yesterday i was told saturday the speaker had the votes to get a deal and keep his job if challenged

looks like that is the case

i know i am a broken record but the key to this deal was the speaker being able to count two sets of votes and feeling like he had them locked down.

more and more it looks like senator demint's volley a while back was his last swipe knowing that the speaker was on his way to getting something done and demint wanting to cry about it one last time.

folks knock the speaker here regularly but he is the only one on his side who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by getting a deal done. he is doing it because he thinks it is right

i think that matters.

maybe i am an easy grader
   3499. zonk Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4327544)
zonk

as i shared in the lounge early yesterday i was told saturday the speaker had the votes to get a deal and keep his job if challenged

looks like that is the case

i know i am a broken record but the key to this deal was the speaker being able to count two sets of votes and feeling like he had them locked down.

more and more it looks like senator demint's volley a while back was his last swipe knowing that the speaker was on his way to getting something done and demint wanting to cry about it one last time.

folks knock the speaker here regularly but he is the only one on his side who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by getting a deal done. he is doing it because he thinks it is right

i think that matters.

maybe i am an easy grader


Oh, I don't disagree --

Boehner's already hearing it from Club for Growth (though - it should be noted that MoveOn is also lambasting Obama on his counterproposal).

I make no claims to being a centrist - and as such, I'd be fundamentally opposed to virtually any Boehner position if he didn't have a raucus caucus to deal with simply because we have a basic disagreement on a whole lot of things... but yeah - I can appreciate that he's more interested in getting something done than the Brutus' standing behind him with sharpened knives.

Like I said, I tepidly support the deal -- and on certain key elements (like the chained CPI component), I even have no problem telling my own side that I disagree with them.
   3500. Ron J2 Posted: December 18, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4327548)
Flip
Page 35 of 62 pages ‹ First  < 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam S
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-29-2014
(1 - 8:08am, Aug 29)
Last: The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee)

NewsblogAfter awkward attempt at game-saving catch, Yankees' Ichiro Suzuki gets testy with reporters
(8 - 7:58am, Aug 29)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogMets call up Dilson Herrera, have "talked about" d'Arnaud to LF
(16 - 7:52am, Aug 29)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread August, 2014
(777 - 7:49am, Aug 29)
Last: Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14!

NewsblogJack White, Eddie Vedder, and Paul Simon take in a Seattle Mariners game
(149 - 7:47am, Aug 29)
Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...)

NewsblogJesus Montero gets heckled by Mariners cross checker during rehab stint
(3 - 7:42am, Aug 29)
Last: The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee)

NewsblogOT: Politics, August 2014: DNC criticizes Christie’s economic record with baseball video
(6033 - 7:14am, Aug 29)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

NewsblogDavid Justice Says Put Barry Bonds in Baseball Hall of Fame Despite Steroid Use Late In Career
(146 - 6:46am, Aug 29)
Last: David Nieporent (now, with children)

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 8-28-2014
(109 - 4:41am, Aug 29)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogSimmons' run-saving stop
(35 - 4:11am, Aug 29)
Last: The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott)

NewsblogCalcaterra | John Rocker to join the cast of “Survivor”
(2 - 3:56am, Aug 29)
Last: zonk

NewsblogOT:  2014 College Football pre-season thread
(45 - 3:40am, Aug 29)
Last: zonk

NewsblogPosnanski: Alex Gordon and the M-V-P chants
(26 - 2:29am, Aug 29)
Last: Baldrick

NewsblogRingolsby: Pete Incaviglia paying dues as independent league manager
(12 - 1:20am, Aug 29)
Last: zonk

NewsblogBusiness Week: Houston Astros' Jeff Luhnow Lets Data Reign
(3 - 1:13am, Aug 29)
Last: Weratych

Page rendered in 1.1988 seconds
52 querie(s) executed