i cannot recall the last time i purchased rounds for any of my handguns or rifles. i think i have ammunition dating from the 60's tucked away in some of the gun cabinets.

The US doesn't have a second amendment either--not what you think.

Even in the tiny chance that the US government becomes a domestic "tyranny," the idea that it could be resisted by a few militias of Larry the Cable Guys and their AR-15s is simply batshit insane. It's a loony tunes idea, of no import when it comes to wise policymaking.

Are you serious? You might want to tell that to the cave dwellers in Afghanistan, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of resisting.

The lobby wouldn't, but you'd get more support from the public and the types of Republicans that get elected to governorships. I know plenty of gun owners that aren't crazy Obama=socialist crazies but are suspicious of the motives of the most strident gun control advocates. It's part of the reason why Democrats like Tester and Manchin exist.

If the most extreme gun owners still don't go along? Fine, but at least the gun control advocates would have the moral high ground in the public debate. As it is, there is *zero* reason for a gun owner to trust the motives of liberals on reasonable gun control.

Not sure what you're getting at, but I was just referring to a Constitutional right to bear arms.

the idea that it could be resisted by a few militias of Larry the Cable Guys and their AR-15s is simply batshit insane

Eh, for as much as some of you are saying this is not so, this is a completely valid point. Some conservatives DO think liberals want to take all their guns. The best thing for gun control advocates to do is compromise and in so doing marginalize and bring out the crazy in the pro-gun crowd.

The best thing for gun control advocates to do is compromise and in so doing marginalize and bring out the crazy in the pro-gun crowd.

What if they had a badass, freedom-sounding name like the "Republican Guard"?

Ditto on that -

Clowns have ideas on both sides have bad ideas - the lefty idea that Obama could realistically just ignore the debt limit (thus pretending that the bonds sold under such conditions wouldn't be subject to onerous markup based on the possibility it would be invalid) for one...

Regardless, people are using school shootings, in particular THIS school shooting, as a justification for gun control, despite the facts demonstrating that school shootings are not actually a meaningful danger at all.

Not to mention, they get supplies from Saudi billionaires, not Bass Pro Shops. Slight difference.

There is no blanket constitutional right to bear arms.

what's the risk of another airplane being hijacked and flown into a building?

Their effective weapons IEDs and the occasional use of mortars (and they can't linger long on these attacks), and as noted in last month's thread pretty much everybody is on board with regulating explosives. And while I can't find anything in the plain text of the 2nd ammendment that bars somebody from owning a mortar, I think almost everybody is content that they too are off limits to civilians.

So can I keep my boots on at the airport now?

Objection. Condescending.

The idea that the nutter wings of each party are remotely comparable in strength, numbers, or influence is very badly misleading.

Most of my... chagrin, I guess... is rooted in the fact the clownish ideas on the left are at least coming from places appropriate (i.e., the internet), while too many of these clowns on the right are actually putting forth these ideas IN congress.

18 and 19 year olds are not "kids". They are adults. I'm going to assume that's just an honest error on your part, since carving them out would change the figures dramatically. Regardless, people are using school shootings, in particular THIS school shooting, as a justification for gun control, despite the facts demonstrating that school shootings are not actually a meaningful danger at all. This is simply an attempt to accomplish through emotion what cannot be done through reason. And I don't blame the lefties for trying; it's a good move. But they shouldn't be surprised or upset when the right doesn't choose to play their game on their terms.

shoot. i have suits older than that.

I am not sure what point this statement is trying to make - regardless of supplier, the fact is the Islamic militias have access to a lot more than a Bushmaster and a banana clip.

So are you now agreeing that US "militias" don't have nearly the access to sophisticated arms, especially heavy weapons, that Afghani ones do, and as such, don't pose nearly the threat? I am not sure what point this statement is trying to make - regardless of supplier, the fact is the Islamic militias have access to a lot more than a Bushmaster and a banana clip.

I took the CDC figures I found; feel free to do the calculations to excise 19 and 18 year olds. I'm confident shootings will still well outweigh drownings, but as you say, you find the number of kids who are shot irrelevant. Please know that I could care less what you assume is "honest" on my part.

#3635 Of course Koresh and co. were completely successful in defending themselves against the ATF. Their success earned them much heavier equipment.

Knowingly attempting to include 18 and 19 year olds in your count of "children" being killed by gun violence is outright lying. Well, it's refreshing to see that you're honest in your dishonesty.

Their biggest "concern," by leaps and bounds, is the rise of the Coloreds ... another bit of crazy due no heed.

“If I ever see or hear of you shooting at a man in a parachute,” Roedel said, “I will shoot you down myself. You follow the rules of war for you — not for your enemy. You fight by rules to keep your humanity.”

Roedel was not alone in this philosophy, and not just among the Germans. Most of these young men now at war — American, British, German — had grown up on the stories of the great World War I fighter pilots: the American Eddie Rickenbacker and Manfred von Richthofen, the German Red Baron.

These were men who fought by a code, who would look each other in the eye mid-air, who would never strafe an enemy plane that was already going down. They had been taught that they very well might survive the war and, if they did, they needed to know that they had fought with honor and as much humanity as possible. It would be the only way they would ever be able to live with themselves.

and despite the best attempts of the MSM to portray groups like the Oath Keepers, preppers, 2nd Amendment defenders as "Larry the Cable Guy", the majority are very concerned about the future of their country, for good reason.

the majority are very concerned about the future of their country, for good reason.

Roedel was not alone in this philosophy, and not just among the Germans.

3652. Rickey is America's Favorite Neighbor Posted: December 18, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4327904)
Just so everyone is aware, there were 5-10 comments in this thread that were of the sort that previously required Jim to answer questions about his user base from the FBI. Jim does not want to do that again.

If you think something you are about to type might lead to the FBI asking Jim "so, this guy with UserNameX, what's the deal with him and this comment about Y," don't post that.

Knowingly attempting to include 18 and 19 year olds in your count of "children" being killed by gun violence is outright lying. Well, it's refreshing to see that you're honest in your dishonesty.

I will presume you lack basic reading skills. The CDC stats I found list the deaths of children by aggregating ages 0-19. What I found is what I typed in. If you feel like looking deeper to try to find the numbers for 18 and 19 year olds, be my guest.

Just so everyone is aware, there were 5-10 comments in this thread that were of the sort that previously required Jim to answer questions about his user base from the FBI. Jim does not want to do that again.

Yep. Success just gets the real guns called in. This isn't theory. This is historical fact.

Just so everyone is aware, there were 5-10 comments in this thread that were of the sort that previously required Jim to answer questions about his user base from the FBI. Jim does not want to do that again.

If you think something you are about to type might lead to the FBI asking Jim "so, this guy with UserNameX, what's the deal with him and this comment about Y," don't post that.



Land of the free!! And I'm the paranoid one. Jesus Christ. Consider this my last post on any political/economic/military/law enforcement/trade policy/history topic. I may still join the OTP fray when the conversation turns to cooking or fluffy bunnies or other similar things that are still allowed to be discussed in the US of ####### A.

I guess what means is the Feds will be seeing pictures of your "junk" that you've texted to your girlfriend faster than she will;.

Consider this my last post on any political/economic/military/law enforcement/trade policy/history topic.

Only a problem if you texted it with the question "Is this too small?"

As has been seen following other mass shootings, there's a strong segment of the gun rights lobby that says the answer to events like the one in Newtown is more guns in more places. But they've said the recent massacre shows how important it is to put guns into elementary schools, where even gun-friendly states like Tennessee don't currently allow them.

State Sen. Frank Niceley (R) told TPM on Tuesday he believes it's time for that to change. He plans to introduce legislation in the next session, which begins Jan. 8, that will require all schools to have an armed staff member of some kind. The current language of the bill -- which is in its early form -- would allow for either a so-called "resource officer" (essentially an armed police officer, the kind which most Tennessee high schools have already) or an armed member of the faculty or staff in every school in the state. The choice would allow schools that can't afford a resource officer to fulfill the requirement without having to pay for anything beyond the cost of the training and, presumably, the weapon. But Niceley said schools should use the wiggle room to train and keep on hand armed staff not in uniform.

That's the best way to protect students, he said.

"Say some madman comes in. The first person he would probably try to take out was the resource officer. But if he doesn't know which teacher has training, then he wouldn't know which one had [a gun]," Niceley said by phone. "These guys are obviously cowards anyway and if someone starts shooting back, they're going to take cover, maybe go ahead and commit suicide like most of them have."

Consider this my last post on any political/economic/military/law enforcement/trade policy/history topic.

McArdle is so resigned to any gun laws failing to prevent gun violence that she concludes that people should be encouraged to "gang rush" shooters rather than hide:

'I'd also like us to encourage people to gang rush shooters, rather than following their instincts to hide; if we drilled it into young people that the correct thing to do is for everyone to instantly run at the guy with the gun, these sorts of mass shootings would be less deadly, because even a guy with a very powerful weapon can be brought down by 8-12 unarmed bodies piling on him at once. Would it work? Would people do it? I have no idea; all I can say is that both these things would be more effective than banning rifles with pistol grips.'

So, in sum: the chances of achieving anything with any gun legislation are so low that in these circumstances, people should resign themselves to probable death by running at the person firing a gun in the hope that enough people will follow that their likely death will not be in vain.

As Jonathan Chait points out at NY Magazine, this is an absurd proposition:

'Are you kidding me? You think gun control is impractical, so your plan is to turn the entire national population, including young children, into a standby suicide squad? Through private initiative, of course. It's way more feasible than gun control!

...

Unless I am missing a very subtle parody of libertarianism, McArdle's plan to teach children to launch banzai charges against mass murderers is the single worst solution to any problem I have ever seen offered in a major publication. Newsweek, I award this essay no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.'

Presumably the FBI won't get their knickers in a twist about this:

I always blame the JPEG........I mean if I ever have done that of course.

As has been seen following other mass shootings, there's a strong segment of the gun rights lobby that says the answer to events like the one in Newtown is more guns in more places.

"Say some madman comes in. The first person he would probably try to take out was the resource officer. But if he doesn't know which teacher has training, then he wouldn't know which one had [a gun]," Niceley said by phone. "These guys are obviously cowards anyway and if someone starts shooting back, they're going to take cover, maybe go ahead and commit suicide like most of them have."

Ok, name ONE instance where a spree killer has been cut short in mid-rampage by an armed citizen

"Say some madman comes in. The first person he would probably try to take out was the resource officer. But if he doesn't know which teacher has training, then he wouldn't know which one had [a gun]," Niceley said by phone. "These guys are obviously cowards anyway and if someone starts shooting back, they're going to take cover, maybe go ahead and commit suicide like most of them have."

Ok, name ONE instance where a spree killer has been cut short in mid-rampage by an armed citizen

just ONE.

According to the link, the guy who confronted Luke Woodham had a Colt .45.

According to the link, the guy who confronted Luke Woodham had a Colt .45.

"Say some madman comes in. The first person he would probably try to take out was the resource officer. But if he doesn't know which teacher has training, then he wouldn't know which one had [a gun]," Niceley said by phone. "These guys are obviously cowards anyway and if someone starts shooting back, they're going to take cover, maybe go ahead and commit suicide like most of them have."

Works every time.

In 1994, Congress enacted the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which banned the importation and manufacture of certain military-style semiautomatic “assault” weapons and ammunition magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds (National Institute of Justice, 1997). Assault weapons and large-capacity magazines manufactured before the effective date of the ban were grandfathered and thus legal to own and transfer. These guns are believed to be particularly dangerous because they facilitate the rapid firing of high numbers of shots. While assault weapons and large-capacity magazines are used only in a modest fraction of gun crimes, the premise of the ban was that a decrease in their use may reduce gunshot victimization, particularly victimizations involving multiple wounds or multiple victims (Roth and Koper, 1997).

A recent evaluation of the short-term effects of the 1994 federal assault weapons ban did not reveal any clear impacts on gun violence outcomes (Koper and Roth, 2001b). Using state-level Uniform Crime Reports data on gun homicides, the authors of this study suggest that the potential impact of the law on gun violence was limited by the continuing availability of assault weapons through the ban’s grandfathering provision and the relative rarity with which the banned guns were used in crime before the ban. Indeed, as the authors concede and other critics suggest (e.g., Kleck, 2001), given the nature of the intervention, the maximum potential effect of the ban on gun violence outcomes would be very small and, if there were any observable effects, very difficult to disentangle from chance yearly variation and other state and local gun violence initiatives that took place simultaneously. In a subsequent paper on the effects of the assault weapons ban on gun markets, Koper and Roth (2001a) found that, in the short term, the prices of assault weapons in both primary and legal secondary markets rose substantially at the time of the ban, and this may have reduced the availability of the assault weapons to criminals. However, this increase in price was short-lived as a surge in assault weapon production in the months prior to the ban and the availability of legal substitutes caused prices to fall back to nearly preban levels. The ban is also weakened by the ease with which legally available guns and magazines can be altered to evade the intent of the ban. The results of these two studies should be interpreted with caution, since any trends observed in the relatively short study time period (24-month follow-up period) are unlikely to predict long-term trends accurately.

Gang-rushing the attacker is a proven method of stopping them prior to police arrival. Worked in Arizona when Gifford was shot.

Ok, name ONE instance where a spree killer has been cut short in mid-rampage by an armed citizen

just ONE.

In 1997, a disturbed high-school student named Luke Woodham stabbed his mother and then shot and killed two people at Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. He then began driving toward a nearby junior high to continue his shooting spree, but the assistant principal of the high school, Joel Myrick, aimed a pistol he kept in his truck at Woodham, causing him to veer off the road. Myrick then put his pistol to Woodham’s neck and disarmed him. On January 16, 2002, a disgruntled former student at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Virginia, had killed three people, including the school’s dean, when two students, both off-duty law-enforcement officers, retrieved their weapons and pointed them at the shooter, who ended his killing spree and surrendered. In December 2007, a man armed with a semiautomatic rifle and two pistols entered the New Life Church in Colorado Springs and killed two teenage girls before a church member, Jeanne Assam—a former Minneapolis police officer and a volunteer church security guard—shot and wounded the gunman, who then killed himself.

Works every time.


Wherein "every time" means "that one time in 1997."

It was 1997. Woodham was constrained to a single shot deer rifle that had to be reloaded manually. While the principal's actions likely saved lives at the secondary target (the junior high) the assault weapons ban that was in effect from 1994-2004 almost certainly saved lives too. If Woodham had had access to a large clip semi-automatic, more than 9 people would have been shot that day.

Five Assault Rifles You Can Pick up at Walmart [PHOTOS]

The joke. You missed it.

Sam references 10 years, while the study references two years.

school shootings are not actually a meaningful danger at all.

How is a pump action shotgun an assault rifle?

Of course it works, but it's hard to think of a more terrible Plan A.