Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, December 02, 2012

OTP December 2012 - Pushing G.O.P. to Negotiate, Obama Ends Giving In

Mr. Obama, scarred by failed negotiations in his first term and emboldened by a clear if close election to a second, has emerged as a different kind of negotiator in the past week or two, sticking to the liberal line and frustrating Republicans on the other side of the bargaining table.

Bitter Mouse Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:15 PM | 6172 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 44 of 62 pages ‹ First  < 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 >  Last ›
   4301. zonk Posted: December 21, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4330315)
Hmmmm.. Labatts vs. Fosters...

...and you say death is not an option?
   4302. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 21, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4330316)
Canada in all honesty.


There are Canadians who are, culturally speaking, essentially American...

   4303. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4330317)

In a somewhat unhinged press conference, National Rifle Association head Wayne LaPierre argued that instead of regulating guns better we should have a police officer in every school. He suggested we could pay for it by cutting foreign aid.

According to the National Center for Education Statistics there are 98,817 K-12 schools in the United States. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says cops make $55,000 a year. So we could put $5.4 billion as the low level estimate of the cost. Cops obviously have health care benefits and pension and disability benefits for police offers tend to be fairly costly so the real price would be higher than that.

At any rate, on both the policing side and the gun control side it would be a mistake to focus too much on spectacular school massacres. What happened at Sandy Hook was terrible, but at least 78 people have been shot and killed in America since then. If you want to regulate guns more strictly, the smart play is to focus on the portable concealable handguns that are widely used in those "ordinary" crimes and if you want to spend billions on hiring new police officers the smart play to focus on deploying them in the high-crime neighborhoods where most of the murdering happens. Obviously one would hope that a less-armed, lower-crime society would also feature fewer monstrous massacres as a side benefit but concentrating our policing resources on static defense of K-12 schools would be foolish.


Matt Yglesias

   4304. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 21, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4330318)
Canada in all honesty.


I don't think* they had a "come to jesus" moment regarding guns though in the same way Australia did though. Still I am willing to look at the Canadian experience with regard to guns, no problem, though I still think we can ;learn from other nations including Australia.

* I don't know much about Canada, gun control, and rates of gun violence actually.
   4305. Tripon Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4330331)

I don't think* they had a "come to jesus" moment regarding guns though in the same way Australia did though. Still I am willing to look at the Canadian experience with regard to guns, no problem, though I still think we can ;learn from other nations including Australia.

* I don't know much about Canada, gun control, and rates of gun violence actually.


That is the point, isn't it? You shouldn't look for a come to Jesus moment, you should look at a country that hasn't taken such a divergence.
   4306. Lassus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4330332)
I'd be curious to hear precisely what changes Obamacare wrought on your life...

He'd mean the cost, I assume.
   4307. Delorians Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4330334)
"Because the right to bear arms is a... right, and rights shouldn't be infringed upon lightly,"

We are not proceeding lightly. This issue has been discussed for a long time. This isn't the first incident sparking calls for legislation.

"and everyone knows that liberals don't plan to stop at 'stricter gun control' but they will always be agitating for stricter and stricter gun control as long as anyone is allowed to bear any arm."

That is where the whole 'Constitutional Republic with systems of checks and balances' comes into play. Whatever is passed next year will be no more strict than can pass Congress (with the House still in 'R' control). If it is too strict, Dems will suffer in the next elections. If the public senses that it does not go far enough (and that that is due to 'R' grandstanding), the Rs will suffer in the next elections. 'Stricter and Stricter' gun control will only happen if the public wants it.
   4308. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4330335)
That is the point, isn't it? You shouldn't look for a come to Jesus moment, you should look at a country that hasn't taken such a divergence.


I'd think the better comparison for the US would be the country that was gung-ho about the "wild west, shoot 'em up" gun culture, *like America,* then had a big change after a mass shooting, *like America is sort of stumbling towards.*
   4309. BrianBrianson Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4330336)
There are Canadians who are, culturally speaking, essentially American...


Yes, but there are a quarter of Canadians who are quite different. Australia is probably a better match because of the single dominant English speaking protestant culture angle. And the Canadian frontier mentality is very different from the American/Australian one. Canada is the country of Peace, Order, and Good Government.
   4310. Bitter Mouse Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4330337)
That is the point, isn't it? You shouldn't look for a come to Jesus moment, you should look at a country that hasn't taken such a divergence.


How can you use a country that has not instituted any gun control reforms to see if gun control reforms work? Australia is good because they are a very similar country to us and then put in place a gun control regime in response to a tragedy. So we can look at them to see what happened to them when they did that.
   4311. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4330338)
You pretended that Australia, a country with just 22 million people and vastly different demographics/culture/climate/geography, could be compared evenly to the US.

Ah so we are back to American Exceptionalism - short bus edition.
   4312. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4330343)
Matt Yglesias


Is exactly one of those urban liberal gun enthusiasts the anti-gun contingent here should hate.

Of all the photos of weenie chickenhawk rightwing pundits trying to look butch with a gun floating around the intertubes, none is more ridiculous looking than the one of Matty Woodchuck and his pal Megan McAddled with shotguns at a firing range.

Again I make the point that the need to have a gun depends on where one lives. Rural people need them. Urban and suburban hipsters don't, even if their neighborhoods haven't been completely gentrified yet.
   4313. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4330349)
The return of RETARDO is the best thing since... Well, since that LaPierre presser, I guess.
   4314. TerpNats Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4330351)
Who in the world would even want the job? I suppose you get a pay hike, you get to go on TV, but you're doomed to be a failure.
Whomever thought that the job description for Speaker of the House would become virtually identical to that of Miami Marlins manager?
   4315. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4330361)
the nra is wandering in the direction of advocating for a national police force

that is the very thing that they warn about every time a democrat is elected as president.

it's one of their scare topics

i know, i am on the mailing list
   4316. zonk Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4330363)
Fear sells... it's the only commodity that seems to have a completely unblemished and unbroken history of sales.

   4317. JuanGone..except1game Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4330365)
Hmmmm.. Labatts vs. Fosters...


Learning that Fosters basically doesn't exist in Australia was like learning that Santa Claus doesn't. And after I spent a good bit of time there, I'd say that Australia was even more like America than Canada. Except, there Right wingers aren't as paranoid about Big Government.
   4318. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4330366)
Fosters, Australian for 'a joke on foreigners'.
   4319. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4330367)
zonk

well, s8x.
   4320. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4330368)
Whomever thought that the job description for Speaker of the House would become virtually identical to that of Miami Marlins manager?


I for one was outraged when Boehner praised Fidel Castro.
   4321. zonk Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4330369)
John Kerry's transition into Adlai Stevenson is now (nearly) complete.
   4322. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:50 PM (#4330370)
Australia is probably a better match because of the single dominant English speaking protestant culture angle. And the Canadian frontier mentality is very different from the American/Australian one. Canada is the country of Peace, Order, and Good Government.


Agreed. I'd also think that Australia has more recent immigrants of darker hue (not to mention their aboriginal people), which is exactly what wingnut American exceptionalists are talking about when when they say, for instance, that European social democracies which provide far better services to their citizens aren't good comparisons because of our ethnic and cultural diversity. IOW, they don't have freeloading n****** they have to give free health care to but we do, so it won't work here and we shouldn't try.
   4323. Tripon Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4330373)
BLAIR COUNTY, Pa. — The Blair County district attorney said that four people, including the alleged gunman, are dead after a series of shootings along a rural road on Friday.

The district attorney said the victims are one woman and three men, including the gunman.

Three Pennsylvania state troopers were injured. One was shot in the chest and had a bulletproof vest on; one was injured in a crash; and one was injured by flying debris. All three troopers are expected to be OK.


Courtney Brennan of WPXI-TV in Pittsburgh reported that the suspected gunman was “mobile” at one point and went up and down a rural road and shot victims.


Gawker said this happened AT THE SAME TIME OF THE NRA PRESS CONFERENCE.
   4324. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4330374)
Learning that Fosters basically doesn't exist in Australia was like learning that Santa Claus doesn't. And after I spent a good bit of time there, I'd say that Australia was even more like America than Canada. Except, there Right wingers aren't as paranoid about Big Government.

A Belgian guy once explained to me that Australia = USA and New Zealand = Canada.

I've never been to Australia or New Zealand (and I'm not sure if I've met any Kiwis) so I have no idea if that's true or not.
   4325. SteveF Posted: December 21, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4330375)
John Kerry's transition into Adlai Stevenson is now (nearly) complete.


Probably a safe pick, given the battles President Obama and the Democrats will be fighting in the near future. He'll sail through confirmation as easily as anyone could.

The worst case scenario is Brown picks up the Senate seat, and he's barely a Republican.
   4326. BrianBrianson Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4330382)
A Belgian guy once explained to me that Australia = USA and New Zealand = Canada.


It's completely true. To a lesser extent, it's Australia=USA=Britain, and New Zealand=Canada=Ireland. But the Australia/New Zealand = America/Canada comp is almost perfect, except the Maori fill the role that the French and the Indians fit in Canada.
   4327. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4330384)
Does this mean we should expect Canadians to have tribal tatts?
   4328. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4330385)
Does this mean we should expect Canadians to have tribal tatts?

I think it just means French-Canadian goalies should do some kind of ceremonial dance before each game.

By the way, did anyone see the New Zealand baseball team's performance before their WBC game against Taiwan? I was all ready for an awkward, forced experience, but I think they pulled it off mostly.
   4329. Tilden Katz Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4330386)
BLAIR COUNTY, Pa. — The Blair County district attorney said that four people, including the alleged gunman, are dead after a series of shootings along a rural road on Friday.

The district attorney said the victims are one woman and three men, including the gunman.

Three Pennsylvania state troopers were injured. One was shot in the chest and had a bulletproof vest on; one was injured in a crash; and one was injured by flying debris. All three troopers are expected to be OK.


Courtney Brennan of WPXI-TV in Pittsburgh reported that the suspected gunman was “mobile” at one point and went up and down a rural road and shot victims.


Never would have happened if rural roads weren't a gun-free zone.
   4330. BrianBrianson Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4330388)
Does this mean we should expect Canadians to have tribal tatts?


Only during playoffs. So not this year.
   4331. Ron J2 Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4330391)
#4296 (and others) The basic problem in terms of arguing with Ray is that at heart he doesn't accept arguments grounded in probabilities. Seriously, think about the way he responds -- it's pretty much always translating into certainty or can't be done.
   4332. Ron J2 Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4330393)
#4304 There was a major "come to Jesus moment" Google Marc Lepine or Ecole Polytechnique.
   4333. JuanGone..except1game Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4330394)
A Belgian guy once explained to me that Australia = USA and New Zealand = Canada.


That is just perfect, even down to the way they look at sports. Australians basically have their love for sports split between Aussie Rules, Rugby (2 types) and cricket while Kiwis are just obsessed with Rugby Union, I mean really obsessed, to the detriment of all other sports similar to Canadians and hockey. The one difference that I do notice between Canadians and New Zealand is that Kiwis are a lot more nationalistic. I've yet to meet a non-cocky New Zealander.
   4334. Ron J2 Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4330395)
#4301 Foster if that's the only choice. But it hasn't been for some time.

Oh and either ahead of "Molson Canadian"
   4335. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4330399)
#4304 There was a major "come to Jesus moment" Google Marc Lepine or Ecole Polytechnique.

As of when I was in high school (2002), the anniversary of the Ecole Polytechnique shooting was commemorated throughout the school.
   4336. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:23 PM (#4330401)
#4301 Foster if that's the only choice. But it hasn't been for some time.

Oh and either ahead of "Molson Canadian"

One of the joys of spending Christmas back in Canada...I just bought a 24 of OV!

(Not that I particularly enjoy the taste of OV...I just enjoy being able to purchase it)
   4337. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4330409)
I'd be curious to hear precisely what changes Obamacare wrought on your life... I presume you had health insurance prior to 2010, correct?


Higher costs for worse care.
   4338. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4330411)
Higher costs for worse care.


In what way are you getting worse care now than you were two years ago?
   4339. bunyon Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4330412)
I'm not the one who just got buttf--ked on national TV, Wayne.
   4340. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4330413)
the nra is wandering in the direction of advocating for a national police force

that is the very thing that they warn about every time a democrat is elected as president.

it's one of their scare topics

i know, i am on the mailing list



I get the impression that they've hired a new publicist/speechwriter who isn't quite conversant with the pre-existing strategies/talking points.

   4341. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4330415)
I think it just means French-Canadian goalies should do some kind of ceremonial dance before each game.

Can-can would intimidate the shit out of other hockey players.
   4342. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4330416)

Gawker said this happened AT THE SAME TIME OF THE NRA PRESS CONFERENCE


Well, if this doesn't prove that the NRA is responsible for everything bad that ever happens with a gun, I don't know what does.
   4343. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4330420)
Well, if this doesn't prove that the NRA is responsible for everything bad that ever happens with a gun, I don't know what does.


You're teetering on the edge of irrationality here, Ray Ray.
   4344. hokieneer Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4330422)
Reason Article on the NRA Presser NRA Fights Anti-Gun Hysteria With Pro-Gun Hysteria

Yeah, Reason and their usually crazy commenters are not too happy with LaPierre's statement.
   4345. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4330426)
the nra is wandering in the direction of advocating for a national police force

that is the very thing that they warn about every time a democrat is elected as president.


Jackbooted thugs, IIRC.

Nihilism is boring...


Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism...
   4346. The Good Face Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4330427)
The one difference that I do notice between Canadians and New Zealand is that Kiwis are a lot more nationalistic. I've yet to meet a non-cocky New Zealander.


I don't know if nationalistic is the right word, but yeah, Kiwis are definitely more proud of their Kiwiness than Canadians seem to be of their Canadianess, or at least more outspoken about it. And they're much more outspoken and in-your-face with respect to their relationship with Australia; Canadians seem to go more for passive aggression when talking to/about Americans.
   4347. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4330429)
#4296 (and others) The basic problem in terms of arguing with Ray is that at heart he doesn't accept arguments grounded in probabilities. Seriously, think about the way he responds -- it's pretty much always translating into certainty or can't be done.


In this case, obsessing about gun control as a way to address the problem makes as much sense as invading Iraq as a response to 9/11. It's a misidentification of the problem, which in this case is insanity with the capability of doing serious violence that hasn't reared its head yet.

Gun control has nothing to do with this issue. Lanza tried to buy a gun - and when hit with the mandatory waiting period found another way. You can put Lanza on a list that prevented him from purchasing weapons - how one would do this is unclear when he hadn't committed a crime of any type yet, though I suppose a pyschiatrist's note would do it - but that wouldn't have helped here, because the guns he used were not his own.

It's not a "probabilities" issue. It's an issue where gun control has absolutely no relevance to the problem. Because someone who is so crazy that he will shoot up a school of kids will find a way.
   4348. Poulanc Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4330438)
It's not a "probabilities" issue. It's an issue where gun control has absolutely no relevance to the problem. Because someone who is so crazy that he will shoot up a school of kids will find a way.



Do you think that there would still be the same number of school shootings if there were no gun control laws at all?
   4349. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4330439)
[4344] I dunno,a whole bunch of the commentariat for that post are saying things like this:

The problem is, the NRA is just following suit. The anti-gun crowd is firmly entrenched in the "scare the #### out of the great unwashed" and is using the Connecticut tragedy as a leaping off point for their rights-grab. They feel the kids who were shot are perfect fodder for making guns and gun ownership out to be this evil specter from which all violence originates.

the NRA was simply taking a page from the other side's playbook. You see how rational debate is impossible right now. CNN baits people who are for liberty and rights onto their network to try to ridicule and demean their position and reasons. So rather than sit back in silence, just do what the ambulance-chasing progressives are doing. Fear-monger right back.


   4350. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4330441)

An Indiana man convicted of setting fire to a mosque in Ohio told a judge on Wednesday that he committed the crimes because Fox News and conservative talk radio had convinced him that “most Muslims are terrorists.”

Randolph Linn, 52, accepted a plea deal in which he pled guilty to all charges in connection to setting a fire in the prayer room at the Islamic Center of Greater Toledo on Sept. 30. Under the deal, Linn is expected to serve 20 years in prison instead of 40.

Linn explained to the court that he had gotten “riled up” after watching Fox News.

“And I was more sad when Judge [Jack] Zouhary asked him that, ‘Do you know any Muslims or do you know what Islam is?’” one mosque member who attended the hearing recalled to WNWO. “And he said, ‘No, I only know what I hear on Fox News and what I hear on radio.’”

“Muslims are killing Americans and trying to blow stuff up,” Linn also reportedly told the judge. “Most Muslims are terrorists and don’t believe in Jesus Christ.”

Linn claimed that he had consumed 45 beers in the 6 hours before leaving his Indiana home to set fire to the mosque, which he had discovered while working as a truck driver.

After his arrest on Oct. 2, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ava Dusten said that Linn had told officers, “Fuck those Muslims… They would kill us if they got the chance.”


Link
   4351. tshipman Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4330443)
It's not a "probabilities" issue. It's an issue where gun control has absolutely no relevance to the problem. Because someone who is so crazy that he will shoot up a school of kids will find a way.


Again, your beliefs have no grounding in fact. I don't even get what the point of talking about this with you is. It would be like trying to convince snapper of the Pope's fallibility.
   4352. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4330446)
45 beers ...
   4353. Lassus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4330448)
It's not a "probabilities" issue. It's an issue where gun control has absolutely no relevance to the problem.

The point being made was that your thinking is too anchored by absolutes to be relevant.
   4354. hokieneer Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4330450)
#4349, well if one is trying to understand LaPierre's motivation in his presser, then that seems like a valid understanding from the NRA's POV.

There are other solid observations:

About what I expected, I guess. Like --- said, they went law 'n' order rather than armed citizen, and thus managed to reinforce the main argument of their opponents: that Americans are inept and incapable and not really to be trusted with guns unless they wear a uniform.


What a bunch of pussies. Let's not defend gun ownership on principle, nope, let's make complete asses of ourselves and scapegoat the media and fellate the police instead, that'll work.


He forgot to mention that last episode of The Walking Dead. The walker/biter apocalypse is pretty much the only reason I buy those mega packs of ammo.


EDIT: CoB, we had this discussion earlier in the week. The bar for semi-sane Reason commentary is extremely low.
   4355. The Good Face Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4330452)
7.5 beers a hour. For 6 hours. That just sounds exhausting.
   4356. spike Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4330456)
and everyone knows

My favoritest rationale. Compelling, succinct, and inarguable.
   4357. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4330458)
Because someone who is so crazy that he will shoot up a school of kids will find a way.

This is where the argument crumbles. It simply isn't empirically true that without guns -- or even with guns, but without the type he had access to -- Lanza was 100% likely to have killed exactly 26 kids.

Not only isn't that true, it literally can't be true. Let's use "thinking man" tools -- everything's exactly the same other than weaponry. One million trials. The expected death toll is 26, standard deviation 0, mode one million, range 0?

Um, no.
   4358. hokieneer Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4330460)
7.5 beers a hour. For 6 hours. That just sounds exhausting.


Not if it's Natural Light. That's like 1.25 MGD or Budweisers per hour.
   4359. KronicFatigue Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4330461)
Looking forward to #4338 being answered!
   4360. Lassus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4330462)
7.5 beers a hour. For 6 hours. That just sounds exhausting.

This brings back one of the great quotes of all time from my rural youth: "Let's go sit in a snowbank and get drunk." You start out like that, by the time you hit a certain age you really aren't feeling anything until the first case is down.
   4361. BDC Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:28 PM (#4330473)
Not if it's Natural Light. That's like 1.25 MGD or Budweisers per hour

That must be the story here, in the unlikely event that the idiot isn't exaggerating. The beers in my fridge right now are Rahr's Stormcloud and Tommyknocker Pickaxe IPAs. 7½ of those in an hour and you'd have to assume the fœtal position.


Rural people need them

Raccoon walked into the kitchen last night and started helping itself to food from the cat dish. We escorted it out, closed the garage door over, and it literally knocked on the door to ask back in. I was thinking that's the closest I'll come to needing a gun. Call me a pacifist, but I don't want to start a gunfight with anybody, even if he's helping himself to my meagre possessions.
   4362. gator92 Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4330476)
Because someone who is so crazy that he will shoot up a school of kids will find a way.


There is no way to make a head-on crash with a tractor-trailer survivable, so forget about having seatbelts and airbags in a car...

Edit: can't type
   4363. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4330477)

In response to a recent increase in crime, Paragould Mayor Mike Gaskill and Police Chief Todd Stovall offered residents at a town hall meeting Thursday night at West View Baptist Church what could be considered an extreme solution — armed officers patrolling the streets on foot.

Stovall told the group of almost 40 residents that beginning in 2013, the department would deploy a new street crimes unit to high crime areas on foot to take back the streets.

"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

Stovall said while some people may be offended by the actions of his department, they should not be.

"We're going to do it to everybody," he said. "Criminals don't like being talked to."

Gaskill backed Stovall's proposed actions during Thursday's town hall.

"They may not be doing anything but walking their dog," he said. "But they're going to have to prove it."

Stovall said the foot patrols would begin on the east side of town and would eventually snake into the Pecan Grove area.

He said the police would follow where crime was taking place in order to snuff it out.

Normally, police would not stop individuals for simply walking on the street, but Stovall said the level of crime in certain areas and concerns from residents gave his officers the right to institute the actions announced at the town hall event.

"This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," he said. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

Stovall further elaborated on the stop-and-ID policy Friday morning, claiming the city's crime statistics alone met the threshold of reasonable suspicion required to lawfully accost a citizen.

"To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason," he said. "Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared...then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."

Stovall said he did not consult an attorney before announcing his plans to combat crime. He even remained undaunted when comparing his proposed tactics with martial law, explaining that "I don't know that there's ever been a difference" between his proposals and martial law.

Stovall said task force members would not even be required to be looking for a specific suspect before stopping citizens on the street.

"Anyone that's out walking, because of the crime and the fear factor, [could be stopped]," he said.

Should an individual not produce identification, Stovall said his officers would not back down. Individuals who do not produce identification when asked could be charged with obstructing a governmental operation, according to Stovall.

"I'm hoping we don't run across [any] of that," Stovall said. "Will there be people who buck us? There may be. But we have a right to be doing what we're doing. We have a zero-tolerance. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We're not going to take a lot of flack."


Arkansas
   4364. DA Baracus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4330479)
At least they admit this based purely on fear. I guess that's something.

"They may not be doing anything but walking their dog," he said. "But they're going to have to prove it."


"Well officer, I do have a dog on a leash."
   4365. Lassus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4330480)
#4363 sounds like something written for The Wire.
   4366. KronicFatigue Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4330481)
#4363 sounds like something written for The Wire.


These dog walkers need to put it in a bag.
   4367. Tripon Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4330483)
Or The Onion.
   4368. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4330487)
Looking forward to #4338 being answered!


It's pretty ####### obvious that the effectiveness of Ray's meds has been seriously compromised.
   4369. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:45 PM (#4330491)
"To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason," he said. "Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared...then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."


I guess it really is too much to ask that law enforcement officials know anything at all about, you know, the law.
   4370. BDC Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4330496)
I've never been to Paragould, Arkansas. There are some dangerous towns in Arkansas – I stayed overnight in West Memphis, for instance, earlier this year, and I did not feel totally safe there. Statistics for West Memphis show crime through the roof.

cityrating.com says this about Paragould:

In 2010 the city violent crime rate in Paragould was lower than the violent crime rate in Arkansas by 32.87% and the city property crime rate in Paragould was higher than the property crime rate in Arkansas by 94.42%.


There seem to be tons of larcenies and thefts in Paragould, for some reason. I don't know if shaking down dogwalkers is the best way to address those problems, but maybe that's why I'm not police chief in Paragould.

Interestingly enough, the Paragould police website proudly says that in 2003 Paragould was the Safest City in Arkansas. I don't know if that's really the message they want to keep sending. It doesn't make the last decade look like a resounding success.
   4371. hokieneer Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4330499)
Wait #4363 is real? I clicked through expecting onion or some other spoof. There were comments on the article in semi-support of this. WHAT THE ####?
   4372. Lassus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4330504)
Paragould is going to sink as a city faster than the Lusitania when the lawsuits start rolling in.
   4373. SteveF Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4330507)
I guess it really is too much to ask that law enforcement officials know anything at all about, you know, the law.


In their defense, stop and identify is a pretty murky of law. As far as I know though, there's no explicit stop and identify law in Arkansas that would require a person to actually answer/present an ID. So they should maybe probably possibly know that.
   4374. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4330513)
7.5 beers a hour. For 6 hours. That just sounds exhausting.


A hefty male has about 170 ounces of blood in him. Linn drank 540 ounces of beer. This means that his blood was 317% beer.

According to this calculator, if he weighed 220 pounds then at the end of his spree his BAC would be .73. A hair over 9 times the legal limit, and .23 over the "possible death" line at Wikipedia. That's not good.
   4375. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4330514)
"They may not be doing anything but walking their dog," he said. "But they're going to have to prove it."

"Well officer, I do have a dog on a leash."

*holds up poop bag*
*gets shot*
   4376. TerpNats Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4330515)
Linn claimed that he had consumed 45 beers in the 6 hours before leaving his Indiana home to set fire to the mosque, which he had discovered while working as a truck driver.
One wonders what he might have torched had he consumed 45 Bud Cheladas (beer + Clamato juice, with salt and lime, and very popular in the Hispanic community).
   4377. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4330517)
7.5 beers a hour. For 6 hours. That just sounds exhausting.

Not for me, as I'm a bit of a light-weight, but this isn't too far out of the normal for a friend or two on a Victoria Day weekend at the cottage.

I've probably never had more than 24 beers in a day...though that would likely be spread over 10-12 hours.
   4378. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4330518)
A hefty male has about 170 ounces of blood in him. Linn drank 540 ounces of beer. This means that his blood was 317% beer.

That's scientifically inaccurate, but the GOP thinks this method should be given equal time on the curriculum.
   4379. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4330521)
One wonders what he might have torched had he consumed 45 Bud Cheladas (beer + Clamato juice, with salt and lime, and very popular in the Hispanic community).

Weird. That drink is semi-popular in rural Saskatchewan as a "girly" drink called a "Red Eye" (minus the salt and lime). Though upon looking it up a "Red Eye" is a coffee based alcoholic drink. These prairie folk have to get with it!
   4380. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4330522)
Paragould is practically local for me. There are a lot of thefts there because there are a ####### of poor people there. FWIW, the cops there have always been ########. I'm tempted to be an ACLU guinea pig but I'm honestly afraid of what the cops would do to me before any lawyer could effect a rescue.
   4381. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4330525)
"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."


What's so great about this is how purely fascistic it is. Regular cops asking a dog walker for his ID is slippery slope fascism, but a guy in body armor carrying a military rifle asking a dog walker for ID is pure and naked fascism. All the way; it even looks fascistic. I like it. It's a litmus test. If you think this is a good idea then you support fascism. Might as well get it out in the open.
   4382. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4330526)
In Little Rock, we had a reporter who'd worked at the Paragould daily. Alas, I recall no particular anecdotes about how crime-ridden the burg was(n't).
   4383. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4330527)
John Bonham before he died consumed 40 shots of vodka in a 24 hr period.
   4384. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4330529)
I'm pleasantly surprised at the amount of local blowback PPD and Stovall are getting, though there are of course a number of people who are cool with it just as there were a number of people who voted for Hitler.
   4385. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4330531)
I stayed overnight in West Memphis, for instance, earlier this year


Why on earth would you do that? I realize that Memphis isn't safe, either, but at least it doesn't smell like sewage and it's not like it's that far away.
   4386. BDC Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4330532)
45 beers in the 6 hours

Funny, I was just mentioning Wade Boggs in another thread.

   4387. BDC Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4330534)
Why on earth would you do that?

That could be the refrain for my entire life so far.
   4388. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4330535)
John Kerry's transition into Adlai Stevenson is now (nearly) complete.

I think Kerry will be a very good Secretary of State.
   4389. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4330537)
John Bonham before he died consumed 40 shots of vodka in a 24 hr period.


"An insult to the brain" that maybe even trumps Dylan Thomas's final binge.
   4390. DA Baracus Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4330541)
45 beers in the 6 hours

Funny, I was just mentioning Wade Boggs in another thread.


Ichiro could drink that much if he wanted to.
   4391. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4330544)
I think Kerry will be a very good Secretary of State.


The primary argument against Kerry for state is that it 1) validates the GOP's insane attacks on Susan Rice (already accomplished) and 2) it opens up a potential Senate seat for the GOP in MA.
   4392. zonk Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4330546)
John Kerry's transition into Adlai Stevenson is now (nearly) complete.

I think Kerry will be a very good Secretary of State.


Oh, I do, too -- that wasn't meant as a slam... I'm just saying 'boring guy, career politician/government official, reached for the brass ring once and lost'.... There's no shame in being Adlai Stevenson.

In fact - folks that have issues with some of Obama's more Bushian foreign policy choices really ought to be applauding this. Kerry has been relatively consistent as a critic on things like drone warfare and unilateral decision making (he just hasn't made a point of picking fights in the press with the administration). Keeping in mind that the SoS works for the President, not the other way around - I do think there's a very real possibility Kerry will be perhaps the biggest advocate for restrained and internationally respectful foreign policy we've seen in most of our lives.
   4393. Howie Menckel Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4330548)

"Linn claimed that he had consumed 45 beers in the 6 hours before leaving his Indiana home to set fire to the mosque"

so if he had a case of fire's remorse, he could have put out the flames himself. no hose could keep up with him



   4394. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4330549)
"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."


Working on Wall Street I usually see some SWATs with AR-15s on the corner of Wall and Broad Street, I've never seen them stop anyone, what I usually see is them posing for pictures with tourists...

The NYC stop and frisk guys are usually just the regular uniformed cops... and they don't do that as much as they used to, and even it wasn't universal, they pretty much targeted loitering men between 15-30 years of age...
   4395. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4330550)
In fact - folks that have issues with some of Obama's more Bushian foreign policy choices really ought to be applauding this. Kerry has been relatively consistent as a critic on things like drone warfare and unilateral decision making (he just hasn't made a point of picking fights in the press with the administration). Keeping in mind that the SoS works for the President, not the other way around - I do think there's a very real possibility Kerry will be perhaps the biggest advocate for restrained and internationally respectful foreign policy we've seen in most of our lives.


That's a good point. The balance of power between the more hawkish Dems (Clinton's camp) and the more dovish Dems (Biden's camp) just shifted a little, maybe.
   4396. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: December 21, 2012 at 05:56 PM (#4330556)
In fact - folks that have issues with some of Obama's more Bushian foreign policy choices really ought to be applauding this. Kerry has been relatively consistent as a critic on things like drone warfare and unilateral decision making (he just hasn't made a point of picking fights in the press with the administration). Keeping in mind that the SoS works for the President, not the other way around - I do think there's a very real possibility Kerry will be perhaps the biggest advocate for restrained and internationally respectful foreign policy we've seen in most of our lives.

I agree, which is why I like him. Republicans will probably like him less in the end, but then, I'm not a Republican and the stuff on which I side with the Republicans ain't foreign policy.
   4397. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4330559)
Do you think that there would still be the same number of school shootings if there were no gun control laws at all?


Yes, or maybe a tweak in the numbers that amounted to a pimple on an elephant's ass.

How does "gun control" apply to this situation? The gun control laws kicked in -- and "worked." He found a way anyway.

He could have done serious damage with a six-shooter or with any number of guns that nobody has a prayer of banning. Does anyone dispute this?

If he had driven his car through the window, would people obsess over "stricter car control laws" as a means to logically address the problem? This is silliness.



   4398. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4330561)
The problem is, the NRA is just following suit. The anti-gun crowd is firmly entrenched in the "scare the #### out of the great unwashed" and is using the Connecticut tragedy as a leaping off point for their rights-grab. They feel the kids who were shot are perfect fodder for making guns and gun ownership out to be this evil specter from which all violence originates.

the NRA was simply taking a page from the other side's playbook. You see how rational debate is impossible right now.


Yes, and this is basically along the lines of my first response to today's NRA press conference. The NRA has decided to see the left's insanity on this issue in response to the school shooting, and match it on the opposite end.
   4399. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4330562)
Yes, or maybe a tweak in the numbers that amounted to a pimple on an elephant's ass.


The pimple on that elephant's ass was a child's life, Ray.

How does "gun control" apply to this situation? The gun control laws kicked in -- and "worked." He found a way anyway.


Which is why people want to increase the controls, Ray. The existing laws worked. Unfortunately, existing law allowed his mother to have stockpiled weapons of an absurd nature, and he used those instead.

Your argument that "the law worked, so there's no point in trying to improve the law, because the law would never work" is...convoluted, to say the least.
   4400. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: December 21, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4330565)
Or not...
Page 44 of 62 pages ‹ First  < 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
greenback calls it soccer
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogLester return to Boston a long shot; Cubs, Yankees are likely players
(19 - 5:46am, Aug 21)
Last: Norcan

NewsblogBrisbee: The 10 most underrated players in baseball, part 2
(16 - 5:25am, Aug 21)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogOT: Politics, August 2014: DNC criticizes Christie’s economic record with baseball video
(4582 - 5:05am, Aug 21)
Last: BrianBrianson

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - August 2014
(278 - 4:39am, Aug 21)
Last: RollingWave

NewsblogSabermetrics Gets Soft «
(4 - 2:44am, Aug 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogGiants plan to protest bizarre loss at Wrigley
(76 - 2:37am, Aug 21)
Last: Bhaakon

NewsblogPosnanski: The Royals might actually know what they are doing
(42 - 2:20am, Aug 21)
Last: JoeC

NewsblogPrado at second base not how Yanks Drew it up
(45 - 2:16am, Aug 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT August 2014:  Wrassle Mania I
(46 - 2:12am, Aug 21)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogLA Times: Angels' Garrett Richards Suffers Knee Injury in Win Over Red Sox
(10 - 2:01am, Aug 21)
Last: Shredder

NewsblogAstros slugger Chris Carter: The most 2014 player of 2014
(1 - 1:35am, Aug 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogBrewers Form Creative Council
(8 - 12:34am, Aug 21)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 8-20-2014
(109 - 11:50pm, Aug 20)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

Newsblog[Ubaldo] Jimenez to the bullpen
(17 - 11:36pm, Aug 20)
Last: DKDC

NewsblogCurt Schilling Reveals He Was Diagnosed With Mouth Cancer in February, Believes Chewing Tobacco Was the Cause
(28 - 11:35pm, Aug 20)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

Page rendered in 0.7874 seconds
52 querie(s) executed