His hypothetical behavior is perfectly consistent with evolutionary biology.

Sure, that's pretty much my position as well - but El Hombre's is informed by a set of circumstances I haven't experienced, so I am loath to judge. I do find it surprising, and am genuinely curious as to how many similarly situated folks share it.

His hypothetical behavior is perfectly consistent with evolutionary biology. Even the behaviors we think of as "altruism" and "concern for others" were selected for to promote one's own genetic heritage. There is no escape from tribalism.

I didn't vote for Fong because of tribalism. I voted for Fong (and would vote for Jindal) to break of tribalism: I want Asian-Americans to become a commonly accepted part of the American political tribe. The only way to do that is to get more Asian-Americans in office, to have our faces be commonplace, to not have our loyalties questioned because we don't look like Captain America.

I wouldn't know about such complicated concepts, but he's claimed in addition to voting for Jindal based on heritage, he's also voted for Matt Fong for the same reason. Now since the two men don't look the same or have similarly shared phenotypic expressions of geography, he must be making his decision based on something beyond genetic commonality, such as his own biases.

Frankly this is just the flip side of the Dittohead Right bemoaning the fact that Colin Powell only voted for Barak Obama due to their shared negritude.

So you're a racist?

By some measures, Sandy was worse than Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, which tore into the U.S. Gulf Coast in 2005, Cuomo said.

Sandy destroyed 305,000 houses in New York state - a still provisional number that's likely to grow - compared to the 214,700 destroyed in Louisiana by Katrina and Rita.

Sandy also caused nearly 2.2 million power outages at its peak in the state, compared to 800,000 from Katrina and Rita in Louisiana, and impacted 265,300 businesses compared to 18,700, Cuomo said.

While Sandy may have damaged more homes and businesses, Katrina took a far greater toll on human lives, killing more than 1,800 people directly or indirectly. Sandy, by comparison, is believed to have killed at least 121 people.

"Hurricane Katrina got a lot of notoriety for the way government handled -- or mishandled, depending on your point of view -- the situation," Cuomo said at a press conference.

But considering the dense population of the area Sandy impacted and costs to the economy, housing, and businesses, the damage done "was much larger in Hurricane Sandy than in Hurricane Katrina, and that puts this entire conversation, I believe, in focus," Cuomo said.

Apparently not since you yourself accused him of voting his "genetic commonalities" over the best interests of the country.

And it's just as dumb when you do it. Dumber really, since you should know better. Or are you no smarter than the average dittohead?

As an American I would hope you would vote for the candidate whose policies provided the clearest benefit to the nation and its citizenry, rather than defer to petty tribalism.

I don't think Bobby Jindal's some crazy extremist.

es, I'm a racist because I don't like having people question my loyalty to the United States because of the way I look.

I don't think Bobby Jindal's some crazy extremist.

He is a bit of an anti-evolution creationist, I think.

If during the run-up to the previous two presidential elections I heard someone crow that they were voting for the white man based on their own whiteness without regard to actual policy I've had thought them boorish.

He's a no-exceptions-except-health-of-mother right to lifer who advocates the teaching of creationism, among other things. I don't know where you draw the line, but that's over for me.

And you would describe his actions how?

I'm just parsing what he wrote openly. Do you disagree with the comparison?

And as an admitted racist, you think voting for people based solely on their "race" will make people more accepting of your American bonafides? That seems curious to me.

If during the run-up to the previous two presidential elections I heard someone crow that they were voting for the white man based on their own whiteness without regard to actual policy I've had thought them boorish.

That said, Jindal is over the crazy line for me.

Yeah, okay, so this is actually more offensive than my noodles joke.

The decision is "do I favor this short term interest of this set of citizens or the long term interest of this other set of citizens, such as my sons and daughters, who will benefit greatly from having faces like his normalized in the political process going forward

Oh, the trailing asterisk in 10311 was going to be a footnote to the effect that nationlism *is* tribalism taken to the next level

you can't be an American nationalist and ##### about "tribalism" from others in the same sentence.

lousy American

Yes, I'm a racist because I don't like having people question my loyalty to the United States because of the way I look.

I'm sorry but if you aren't an American first and a member of whatever regional heritage and/or religious affiliation second, you're a pretty lousy American. If you intentionally vote for an inferior candidate knowing that his policies are deleterious, you're offloading misery on someone else for pure racist reasons. That's shameful.

Poppycock

Yeah, but the situations aren't really comparable. White people have no particular need to think about a legacy of invisibility that will be left to their children and grandchildren and so forth. Asian-Americans have a fair argument that doing so is not only rational, but reasonable.

So even ignoring the "face of the future" effect where it is important for folks to see folks like them suceed and ignoring my terrible food analogy above (peas and onions, really?) I think there is value in diversity of life experience and diversity of thought in a representative body like the House or Senate (I am less enamored with it in the executive position).

may not add as much value as an onion (even an inferior onion)

That's just obnoxious, to say nothing of un-American. Voting for racist reasons is simply a racist action

And taken to its logical extension?

even openly inferior ones

If half an onion is black with rot it as a rotten onion. A man is good or he is evil.

I'm glad El Hombre laid his racialism bare and wouldn't have otherwise bothered with the topic, but saying that all minorities are only being "rational" and "reasonable" in voting only for minority candidates, even openly inferior ones, is the sort of paternal tribalism that I had hoped we could avoid when dealing with serious matters.

I'm sorry but if you aren't an American first and a member of whatever regional heritage and/or religious affiliation second, you're a pretty lousy American.

Heck, if you're voting for an admittedly inferior candidate on the basis of their race, what if they're elected and awful? Perhaps that sets back your racialist "cause" by a generation. That'll teach ya.

I'm glad El Hombre laid his racialism bare and wouldn't have otherwise bothered with the topic,

I've voted for white candidates all my life

First and foremost, the idea that one can somehow be bad at being an American is awful.

That way lies fascism.

Second of all, the fact that one is voting on one set of issues -- the visibility of an ethnic minority

rather than another set of issues -- taxes or the environment or gay rights or whatever -- indicates neither racism nor a lack of consideration.

Regionalism, for instance, in fact has rational roots. It is plausible to say that a person, regardless of his stance on issues, is more likely to govern in a way that is amenable to the people around whom he grew up, who shaped his philosophies and worldview.

If half an onion is black with rot it is a rotten onion. A man is good or he is evil.

That's the philosophy that made Vince McMahon a billionaire.

There are American ideals and there are un-American ideals, are there not? A politician who swore fealty to the Pope would not be acting in the best interests of America but in those of a foreign theocrat. That strikes me as being a lousy American at the least.

I've voted for white candidates all my life

If half an onion is black with rot it is a rotten onion. A man is good or he is evil.

That's the philosophy that made Vince McMahon a billionaire.

That sort of racialism is how we're biologically programmed to behave. Why do you hate science?

Tell me more about he biological programming that forces one to conflate the heritage of swarthy Hindis and natives of the Shanxi provence. How do such things express themselves in terms of neurological development? Where should we be placing our patch clamps?

And yet in this very specific thread, with regard to the very specific discussion at hand, El Hombre mentions his shared support for Bobby Jindal (infant Hindi immigrant to America and raised in Louisiana) and Matt Fong (American-born of Chinese ancestory and raised in California). So what can we infer about how these quite dissimilar upbringings have drawn the support of this one particular voter? What sort of regionalist, rationalist interpretation undergirds such thought?

The best, most qualified candidate in the world isn't good enough for you because his family fled Somalia and yours fled Laos?

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "inferior" in this case.

Look, I've never voted for anyone simply because their name was Silverstein or they looked like my uncle Solomon or whatever -- but then, Jews became Americans long before I was born.

I don't know about those other places, but I'd definitely vote for a guy from Provence. That place is awesome. It's just bocce all day and then top up your empties at the winery for 1 euro a bottle and your evening is all set. I could get behind a nation run on those principles.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "inferior" in this case.

You know where fascism often lies?

If you want to aspire to American ideals you need to jettison the idea that simply being a member of your "group" is some sort of inherent mark of superiority to be championed above all else.

You don't have to guess, I've spelled it out for you. If you want to think that's racist, go ahead.

Having experienced actual racism, your righteous indignation seems cute by comparison.

Poppycock: A less well known nickname for Bill Clinton.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "inferior" in this case.

Black.

yr

if it provides any hope i have drunk a river of gin and smoked several packs of pall malls daily between ages 16-62 and though i had the stroke a while back am 79 and to the disappointment of my enemies don't look to be dying anytime soon.

sorry sam

Not quite. It means that if they're both from the same state, that state can't vote in the Electoral College.

i heartily encourage folks drinking gin. just not mine

i heartily encourage folks drinking gin. just not mine

not to begin some philosophical discussion but do you consider diversity programs racist?

companies all over the u.s. are working to promote diversity in their vendor base

i think when folks start to get too broad in their assessment of things like racism it undermines branding actual racism as racism

The only reason many longtime posters here know who I am is because I had the temerity to point out Jack Johnson

yr

if it provides any hope i have drunk a river of gin and smoked several packs of pall malls daily between ages 16-62 and though i had the stroke a while back am 79 and to the disappointment of my enemies don't look to be dying anytime soon.

I know who you are because of the stuff you said about Michael Jordan in the NBA Thread

Come on, the guy was a selfish ballhog and everyone knows it.

Playing the "who had it worse in 20th century America" game is a fruitless and self-defeating endeavor.

Playing the "who had it worse in 20th century America" game is a fruitless and self-defeating endeavor.

sorry sam

We can stipulate that a lot of people had it shitty in the 20th century in America. But it's also a fact that our grandfathers had Jews to vote for, and el Hombre's often didn't have Asian-Americans to vote for.

But as a practical matter we've been included in the American political process at a high level for a long time in a way that Hispanics, Asians and black folks generally haven't.

Pretending otherwise doesn't help your case. Neither does playing the "Oh, my ancestors were crapped on, too!" card, which is totally what you're doing while trying to claim that you're not.

There is something to be said for opening doors and leaving them ajar for the next guy to walk through.

The promotion of ethnic values and ideas is a road to fascism when it's used by a majority group to define an out group as "other"

Which is what calling things "un-American" is all about. America is too big and complicated to be able to boil it down to that sort of talk

We're victims. Helpless and pitiful VICTIMS, I tell you.

In 21st century America, straight white men are lapping the field.

We're victims. Helpless and pitiful VICTIMS, I tell you.

10364. spankz Posted: November 27, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4310996)
The Best and Worst run states in the US.


Well I would disagree about some of the methodology but its nice to see that California can keep its ranking 2 years in a row.

The more interesting question about 21st century America, by far, is who has it the best.

The more interesting question about 21st century America, by far, is who has it the best.

I find this sort of lawyerly parsing preposterous

i heartily encourage folks drinking gin. just not mine

The hipsters are drinking gin these days ever since 'the blogs' started shaming people for drinking vodka.

Dude, you're the one who said that thinking originating in ethnicity is the road to fascism

. It's not lawyerly parsing. It's called thinking.

Rich white dudes. It's not an interesting question, because you can answer it with three words and no caveats.

“One of the things we’ve got to do is put a legal architecture in place, and we need Congressional help in order to do that, to make sure that not only am I reined in but any president’s reined in terms of some of the decisions that we’re making,” Mr. Obama told Jon Stewart in an appearance on “The Daily Show” on Oct. 18.

Vodka is pointless unless you're literally in Russia.

Gin is a good cocktail drink, but it does bad things to my head in the morning.

Bourbon is God's on drink.