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Wednesday, October 31, 2012

OTP November 2012 - Moneypoll! The Pundits vs. The Election-Data Nerds

Come next Tuesday night, we’ll get a resolution (let’s hope) to a great ongoing battle of 2012: not just the Presidential election between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, but the one between the pundits trying to analyze that race with their guts and a new breed of statistics gurus trying to forecast it with data.

In Election 2012 as seen by the pundits–political journalists on the trail, commentators in cable-news studios–the campaign is a jump ball. There’s a slight lead for Mitt Romney in national polls and slight leads for Barack Obama in swing-state polls, and no good way of predicting next Tuesday’s outcome beyond flipping a coin. ...

Bonus link: Esquire - The Enemies of Nate Silver

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:42 PM | 11298 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mr president, off-topic, politics, sabermetrics, usa

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   10801. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 04:58 PM (#4312701)
zonk

you need someone knowledgeable about electrical/electronics


I was thinking about that... maybe I drop my chemist? I'm just not sure we're going to be able to rely on much in the way of electronics in the near-term -- we'll still have generators around and such, but I would think that eventually, we're going to go through a non-electric period and I would suspect that our descendants are going to need to relearn that one at some point in the future.
   10802. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4312704)
But - we're not going to need a complex system of laws - nor, are we going to need financiers... at least, not for a good long while. I'd just bring along a couple of books on the subjects - I won't have need of any practitioners, at least, not in our lifespans and probably not in our kids' lifespans.


I'm not sure what you think I'm advocating. I specifically said that if we were getting sent back to the stone age we don't need lawyers and bankers and that lawyers and bankers have value in, what I'll label, post dark-ages eras.
   10803. Steve Treder Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4312705)
Mr. Boehner doesn't seem to be having a good time.

“Democrats have yet to get serious about spending cuts,” Boehner said.


Then just let them drive right off the fiscal cliff. That'll get you some serious spending cuts.

Oh, you don't want to do that?

EDIT: And I love this:

Reid said about Boehner: “I don't understand his brain.”
   10804. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:05 PM (#4312709)
I always thought that one of the funniest 'War on Christmas' episodes was when Field Marshall O'Reilly, of the 1st Infantry Christmas Defense Division - was found to be selling only Holiday ornaments on his website...


Fifth columnists are everywhere.
   10805. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4312711)
Mr. Boehner doesn't seem to be having a good time.


Does he ever? I don't think I've ever seen him smile. I still can't believe he's my Congressman (and ran unopposed this year!).
   10806. Dr. Vaux Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4312714)
Voxter, I don't know how to spell it out more clearly: we're talking about stuff like "Up on the Housetop" and "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer," not just stuff with religious content.

Sure there are Halloween songs. "The Ghost of Tom," "The Worms Crawl In, the Worms Crawl Out" . . . there aren't too many, and they're not any good, but they do exist. And the kids like them, so they can be useful. It's hard to overestimate the difficulty of getting kids to cooperate.
   10807. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4312715)
It's harder than you think. There are not a lot of good songs about winter that don't mention Christmas.

Also, the kids want to sing Christmas songs. Because they, you know, celebrate Christmas and like Christmas songs. It's hard enough to motivate kids as it is without the artificial restraint of keeping them from doing what they want to be doing when there's no good reason for them not to do it.


"Jingle Bells"
"Winter Wonderland"
"Let it Snow"
"The Most Wonderful Time of the Year"
Etc.

Yeah, there's totally no way to make that work.
   10808. Steve Treder Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4312716)
Does he ever? I don't think I've ever seen him smile.

It is just me, or does Boehner not really seem to enjoy the job of Speaker? I get that trying to get the Teapers to go along with anything must be a major headache, but isn't meeting that challenge what Speakers are supposed to do?
   10809. JuanGone..except1game Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4312717)
Our only hope is that they are Walking Dead-like slow Walkers instead of the I Am Legend running kind.

You mean 28 Days Later kind. I Am Legend kind weren't zombies.


Your so right and I've actually read the book. So ashamed. This must be how Dick Morris or JoeK should feel.
   10810. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4312718)
You mean 28 Days Later kind. I Am Legend kind weren't zombies.


The ones in 28 Days Later weren't zombies, either. They're people infected with a disease.
   10811. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4312719)
OK, name another one.


The Curse of Millhaven
   10812. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4312723)
And when you add the racial aspect, it's just one more indication that the Republicans have simply written off the idea of expanding their share of the black vote beyond the Clarence Thomases and Thomas Sowells and a handful of anti-gay rights ministers. Going after Rice isn't major suicidal the way that harping on Rev. Wright would have been, but the net loss to the GOP is likely to be on the order of 10 to 1**, even if the total numbers won't be that big.

"The racial aspect"? So all those right-wingers who confirmed black guy Colin Powell as secretary of state and then black woman Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state are now at risk of being seen as racists if they oppose Susan Rice for secretary of state?

Quite a racket you guys have crafted for yourselves.
   10813. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4312725)

I'm not sure what you think I'm advocating. I specifically said that if we were getting sent back to the stone age we don't need lawyers and bankers and that lawyers and bankers have value in, what I'll label, post dark-ages eras.


I think I made myself pretty clear...

I'm advocating drafting a team of people to keep me safe, feed me, build things for me, heal me when I'm sick, and allow me to reproduce with Kate Upton in relative safety and harmony.
   10814. GregD Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4312726)
so if the tax increases pass the folks here should acknowledge the speaker placing country before his vanity. for what's that worth.
No doubt, Harveys. I'm not Boehner's biggest fan but obviously if he pulls a Dole and comes out with a serious deal, he should get praise. That and five hundred bucks might buy his plane trip home, as you say.

I get that a chunk of the Tea Party group wants to dump him. What I can't get clear is how big that group truly is.

If Boehner gets a deal that includes some tax increases, can he deliver 30 Republicans? 100? 150? Maybe's it not knowable, but somewhere between delivering 100 and 150 Republicans he can just tell Cantor to go #### himself, no? If he's stuck between 30-100, then he's obviously stuck being their stooge.
   10815. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4312727)
"Jingle Bells"
"Winter Wonderland"
"Let it Snow"
"The Most Wonderful Time of the Year"
Etc.

Yeah, there's totally no way to make that work.


Well of course it CAN work. The point is, why should it be so difficult? Is anyone really offended by "The 12 days of Christmas" or "The Christmas Song" ("Chestnuts roasting on an open fire...")?
   10816. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4312731)
Perfect example of what's wrong with government:

Sandy blasts $80B hole through debt talks

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Northeastern lawmakers are seeking $80 billion from Congress to pay for damage caused by Superstorm Sandy — a demand that could wreak havoc on negotiations for a deal on the deficit.

...
The $80 billion amount is more than all the money that would be saved by ending the Bush-era tax rates for top earners next year. The fight over those rates has proven the major sticking point in talks to avert the "fiscal cliff" of tax hikes and spending cuts.

First it was $30 billion, then $40 billion, and now it's $80 billion. New York and New Jersey want every man, woman, and child in the U.S. to kick in $260 because a storm hit, while New York and New Jersey pay $0. Crazy.
   10817. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:34 PM (#4312732)
And when you add the racial aspect, it's just one more indication that the Republicans have simply written off the idea of expanding their share of the black vote beyond the Clarence Thomases and Thomas Sowells and a handful of anti-gay rights ministers. Going after Rice isn't major suicidal the way that harping on Rev. Wright would have been, but the net loss to the GOP is likely to be on the order of 10 to 1**, even if the total numbers won't be that big.

"The racial aspect"? So all those right-wingers who confirmed black guy Colin Powell as secretary of state and then black woman Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state are now at risk of being seen as racists if they oppose Susan Rice for secretary of state?


Personally I don't see it as racial. More as a typical case of wingnuts being wingnuts, and a party determined to drive itself right off the cliff because it's talked itself into doing it. But the sight of a united Senate party made up of aging white men voting unanimously against a black woman on dubious grounds isn't going to look too good. You may not like to hear that, but then there are a lot of things you don't like to hear.

And it's rather ironic that the party that greatly benefited from the Swift Boating of John Kerry in 2004 is now trying to position him as a Secretary of State. I think Kerry would make a fine Secretary of State, but color me totally cynical about the Republicans' motivations in promoting him.
   10818. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4312735)
"Jingle Bells"
"Winter Wonderland"
"Let it Snow"
"The Most Wonderful Time of the Year"


Don't forget this contemporary classic, homeboy.
   10819. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4312736)
New York and New Jersey want every man, woman, and child in the U.S. to kick in $260 because a storm hit, while New York and New Jersey pay $0. Crazy.


It's called negotiation. Your asking price is never your bottom line. IF they get $80 billion, and IF that covers 100% of their damage, THEN your comment above is valid. Until then, it's all a lot of hot air.
   10820. The Good Face Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4312737)
"The racial aspect"? So all those right-wingers who confirmed black guy Colin Powell as secretary of state and then black woman Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state are now at risk of being seen as racists if they oppose Susan Rice for secretary of state?

Quite a racket you guys have crafted for yourselves.


Yeah, the dire warnings about not confirming Susan Rice are nonsense; liberal echo chamber stuff. The timing and history are such that it won't cost the GOP a damn thing. Of course, if they really believe she's an inept dolt, the smarter move would be to confirm her after making a show of grumbling and then use her gaffes to attack and weaken the Obama admin. It's not like it really matters. Foreign policy is the Jack Russell terrier of the USA; noisy, destructive, and more trouble than it's worth. That never seems to change no matter who's at State.
   10821. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4312739)
I'm so upset about that trailer. The book was so ####### good, and I had hopes they'd treat with the faux-documentary style it deserves.
The zombies are average walkers in the book. That's what makes the Yonkers story so harrowing.
There's a 'WTF', jump scare quality to the WWZ trailers, but after that, on second viewing, it looks especially contrived.

I haven't read the book (will now, though), but average walkers is the way to go. In certain situations fast zombies work. 28... takes smart advantage of its infecteds' frenzy, and the DotD remake's fast zombies meant fighting them individually was a lost cause, so it kept the focus on the humans trapped in the mall, but in general it's easier to make a solid film using 'slow' walkers. The Walking Dead tv series gets this right. Its dead can stagger at a pretty good clip for a while, putting real stress on the characters. Strategy is more important and more interesting with the slow ones, else it pretty much boils down to 'Run! Hide!'

zonk: an electrician is going to be much more valuable in the short run than a chemist. In any case, you'll have a tough time getting the chemist's lab going without electricity. Also, I don't know why you'd ever have an electricity free period. You'd at least want someone who could run solar panels for you after the gas goes bad, and to develop the next generation of solar electricity.

edit: youtube has commercials now, in advance of a four minute video? #### you, youtube.

I have a young cousin who wants to become a hiphop artist. He's a pretty good writer, but he's never even heard of Public Enemy. How is this possible?
   10822. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4312740)
"Jingle Bells"
"Winter Wonderland"
"Let it Snow"
"The Most Wonderful Time of the Year"


Grandma Got Runover By A Raindeer?
   10823. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4312743)

I haven't read the book (will now, though), but average walkers is the way to go. In certain situations fast zombies work. 28... takes smart advantage of its infecteds' frenzy, and the DotD remake's fast zombies meant fighting them individually was a lost cause, so it kept the focus on the humans trapped in the mall, but in general it's easier to make a solid film using 'slow' walkers. The Walking Dead tv series gets this right. Its dead can stagger at a pretty good clip for a while, putting real stress on the characters. Strategy is more important and more interesting with the slow ones. Otherwise it pretty much boils down to 'Run! Hide!'


One thing I wonder regarding the early Romero zombie flics and Walking Dead...

Why doesn't everyone flee north?

Sure - the weather is going to miserable without the creature comforts, but given the rotting nature of the walkers and such - these extreme cold/thawing events would seem to clear out the zombie herds pretty significantly, wouldn't they? How would a walker be able to "survive" in below freezing snowdrifts?

Obviously, there are other challenges living in say... Minnesota without modern creature comforts during a northern north american winter - but it would seem to me that you just need to survive (keep warm & eat) a single seasonal cycle and then you'd only have to deal with the freshly dead.

*snort* I hope someone got fired over that...
   10824. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4312747)
greg

if a deal happens with tax increases it either has to be all the republicans with some hard cores on the sidelines or the speaker and 40 loyalists who are in safe locations but know they are doing him one last favor and that tehy will be deemed 'suspect' by new leadership, etc

cantor isn't helping him
   10825. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4312748)

zonk: an electrician is going to be much more valuable in the short run than a chemist. In any case, you'll have a tough time getting the chemist's lab going without electricity. Also, I don't know why you'd ever have an electricity free period. You'd at least want someone who could run solar panels for you after the gas goes bad, and to develop the next generation of solar electricity.


Hmmm... I'm torn - I really hate to lose my chemist, but I'm not losing Kate Upton either.
   10826. spike Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4312751)
Yeah, the dire warnings about not confirming Susan Rice are nonsense;

The party of Sarah Palin and Condi Rice are going to have an awfully hard time making the case that Rice is not qualified, or should be disqualified for the information she passed on regarding the situation in another country
   10827. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4312752)
Grandma Got Runover By A Raindeer?


Walking home from our house [REDACTED] Eve?
   10828. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4312754)
Hmmm... I'm torn - I really hate to lose my chemist, but I'm not losing Kate Upton either.


Maybe you should start taking some night classes. Or does Kate love you enough to do it for you?
   10829. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4312756)
Why doesn't everyone flee north?

Sure - the weather is going to miserable without the creature comforts, but given the rotting nature of the walkers and such - these extreme cold/thawing events would seem to clear out the zombie herds pretty significantly, wouldn't they? How would a walker be able to "survive" in below freezing snowdrifts?

Obviously, there are other challenges living in say... Minnesota without modern creature comforts during a northern north american winter - but it would seem to me that you just need to survive (keep warm & eat) a single seasonal cycle and then you'd only have to deal with the freshly dead.


That's actually a plot point in the World War Z book. The short answer is that there aren't enough resources up there to sustain that kind of population shift.
   10830. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4312757)
I haven't followed the Christmas carol sub-thread, but IMO public schools should be presenting a wide variety of holiday songs, both secular and sacred, from all traditions. If an individual student doesn't want to sing, excuse him. No child needs to be forced to sing something that violates his beliefs. This isn't about forced "indoctrination", any more than teaching about the history of our political parties is about indoctrination into the merits of one party or another.

And at the risk of being written off as an ancient relic, all I can say is that I was raised on the Sunday newspapers and never attended a church service from the age of 6 on up. And yet I was easily able to find beauty and meaning in the Christmas and Hanukkah songs we sang all through elementary school, and listened to in assembly after that when presented by the glee clubs. "Jingle Bells" and all that is fine, but they can't possibly compare to the sacred carols for beauty, and for the life of me I can't see why---in our great age of cultural diversity---we shouldn't want children to be exposed to traditions that they didn't grow up in. Present Christmas carols, Hanukkah songs, Kwanzaa songs, and religious songs from any other seasonal holidays. As a confirmed agnostic, why on Earth should I have a problem with any of that? How is the world going to end because school children get exposed to religious traditions? Those songs I learned in 5th and 6th grade never "converted" me, but they certainly started me on a lifelong appreciation of some of the finest music ever composed. Some people can sure pick the strangest fights.



   10831. The District Attorney Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4312758)
given the rotting nature of the walkers and such - these extreme cold/thawing events would seem to clear out the zombie herds pretty significantly, wouldn't they? How would a walker be able to "survive" in below freezing snowdrifts?
World War Z does in fact go with this.

EDIT: Zombrex to Vlad. Keep living your life, with Zombrex! By Phenotrans.
   10832. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4312761)
Hmmm... I'm torn - I really hate to lose my chemist, but I'm not losing Kate Upton either.



Maybe you should start taking some night classes. Or does Kate love you enough to do it for you?



Well, I guess Kate's gonna actually have to learn to love me, so I suppose she can learn chemistry, too...
   10833. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4312767)

Remember the old thought experiment - the world is about to be wiped out by an asteroid/nuclear blast/army of zombie Biebers and you can save a fixed number of individuals in your awesome underground bunker until things settle down topside. Based solely on occupation, make your "draft picks" as to whom you'll need to help you re-establish society once you can return to the surface.


What's your population size? If you've only got ten people no point in having a chemist -- you are going to spend all your time hunting and scavenging and moving about. Not to mention that that is an insufficient breeding population. If you've got 1000 people then draft picks #1-10 are farmers. So it gets complicated.

But one occupation in general to add to your list is veterinarian.

There have been studies and models done of the ideal crew size for extraplanetary exploration (assuming cost isn't an object). There were a number of studies that suggested that 30 people is the minimum number of skilled individuals you would need so that you have a skilled person for any given task that you are likely to need to perform. Might be a good place to start.
   10834. JuanGone..except1game Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:59 PM (#4312768)
Why doesn't everyone flee north?


I'm with you brother. I'd expose myself to Sarah Palin's Wasilla fealty pledge if the cold could hypothetically keep the Bieber horde at bay from me and my family.

cantor isn't helping him


Does he ever? I can't wait for Boehner's autobiography one day. He is going to absolutely slaughter Cantor in it, possibly even more than he takes a hatchet to Obama.
   10835. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 05:59 PM (#4312769)
Foreign policy is the Jack Russell terrier of the USA; noisy, destructive, and more trouble than it's worth.

I didn't expect my first disagreement ever (or at least the first I can recall) with The Good Face to be over dogs.

I agree with you re: foreign policy, but not re: Jack Russell terriers.
   10836. Steve Treder Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4312770)
And at the risk of being written off as an ancient relic, all I can say is that I was raised on the Sunday newspapers and never attended a church service from the age of 6 on up. And yet I was easily able to find beauty and meaning in the Christmas and Hanukkah songs we sang all through elementary school, and listened to in assembly after that when presented by the glee clubs. "Jingle Bells" and all that is fine, but they can't possibly compare to the sacred carols for beauty, and for the life of me I can't see why---in our great age of cultural diversity---we shouldn't want children to be exposed to traditions that they didn't grow up in. Present Christmas carols, Hanukkah songs, Kwanzaa songs, and religious songs from any other seasonal holidays. As a confirmed agnostic, why on Earth should I have a problem with any of that? How is the world going to end because school children get exposed to religious traditions? Those songs I learned in 5th and 6th grade never "converted" me, but they certainly started me on a lifelong appreciation of some of the finest music ever composed. Some people can sure pick the strangest fights.

Agreed completely, except that I bailed on church at the age of 8.
   10837. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4312772)
Well, I guess Kate's gonna actually have to learn to love me, so I suppose she can learn chemistry, too...


It's no less likely than Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist, right?
   10838. JuanGone..except1game Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4312773)
Remember the old thought experiment - the world is about to be wiped out by an asteroid/nuclear blast/army of zombie Biebers and you can save a fixed number of individuals in your awesome underground bunker until things settle down topside. Based solely on occupation, make your "draft picks" as to whom you'll need to help you re-establish society once you can return to the surface.


I'd be fine without one, but I think a Chef/Cook has to be on that list but obviously lower. We are a spoiled soceity, and if people are just eating crappy beans all day, some may give up without some decent sides created from the rations.
   10839. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4312774)
Well, I guess Kate's gonna actually have to learn to love me, so I suppose she can learn chemistry, too...



It's no less likely than Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist, right?


Precisely what I was thinking...
   10840. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4312775)
First it was $30 billion, then $40 billion, and now it's $80 billion. New York and New Jersey want every man, woman, and child in the U.S. to kick in $260 because a storm hit, while New York and New Jersey pay $0. Crazy.

It should only be the gays that have to pay the money. There's a long scientific history of responsibility. Why punish the innocent?

Speaking of the gay, here's one other bone to chew on: New York and New Jersey have been near the bottom of the 50-state list for federal monies received vs. federal taxes paid for decades, with New Jersey regularly ranking 50th. Between 1990 and 2009 the two states paid in $1.6 trillion dollars more than they got back. Tell us more about this unconscionable $260 burden.
   10841. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4312776)
what's very different about washington these days is the lack of commitment to common sense and loyalty. very few votes happen because someone is willing to help someone else

folks gripe that we do not have a representative democracy but in some respects it is 'very' representative. congressfolks vote 'exactly' how their constituents want them to vote even if the choice is really dumb. very few pols in the congress or senate are willing to tell their voters that they had to vote 'x' because it was the right thing to do
   10842. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:08 PM (#4312778)
One thing I wonder regarding the early Romero zombie flics and Walking Dead...

Why doesn't everyone flee north?
Well, NotLD is concerned with immediate survival, within a day or two of the outbreak. DotD is concerned with that, then with four characters who find themselves a pretty sweet setup they're reluctant to leave. Idk if we ever find out what everyone else was up to.

Wrt TWD, idk. Afaict the only reason not to go north is then you have a cable show with eight viewers watching a dozen characters hanging out in St. Paul, or Winnipeg, or someplace.
   10843. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:10 PM (#4312783)
Wrt TWD, idk. Afaict


Speak English, Mick!
   10844. The District Attorney Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4312784)
I feel like we might be kissing military butt to say that a soldier should be the #1 overall pick. In terms of food, you want a farmer and/or hunter, right? (And it'd be silly to say that military experience is equivalent to hunting in the wild.) Or in terms of defense, unless you actually do already have guns and ammo, you'd presumably want some kind of gadget guy/scientist who could make something deadly out of what was available. Knowledge of strategy and terrain isn't going to avail much if you have the technological disadvantage.

You need a "leader" personality for sure, but that's a personality type that can come from any field.

Hell, maybe Kate Upton should be the #1 pick. Remember that Seinfeld where his beautiful girlfriend cruises through life, unaware that she always gets her way whenever she asks anyone for anything?
   10845. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4312789)
Speaking of the gay, here's one other bone to chew on: New York and New Jersey have been near the bottom of the 50-state list for federal monies received vs. federal taxes paid for decades, with New Jersey regularly ranking 50th. Between 1990 and 2009 the two states paid in $1.6 trillion dollars more than they got back. Tell us more about this unconscionable $260 burden.

So you're in favor of "progressive" taxation, except when you're not. Got it.
   10846. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4312791)
I guess my first pick would be my buddy Haytham... he's a lawyer, sure, but before that he was a Marine DI, and he's still one tough SOB.
And then Kirk Lombard - does Northern California food-foraging tours. Everybody gotta eat, even if it's all dandelions and monkey-faced eels.
And then Amazing GF, because I'm not doing this without Amazing GF if I can help it.
After that, I'm not sure.
   10847. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4312794)
Steve (#10836),

In my experience, the most militant atheists and anti-religious types in general come from the ranks of "fallen away" believers who react so strongly against the BS and the hypocrisy of organized religion that they feel compelled to fight it at every turn, no matter how benign the specific subject at hand. The most anti-Catholic person I've ever known was an ex-GF of mine who was raised in one of those Bless the Father Son Holy Ghost type families, and the second she had a chance to escape she saw the Church as a lifelong enemy. I always felt kind of funny as an agnostic, trying to convince her not to throw out the proverbial baby with the Holy Water.
   10848. zonk Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4312795)
I feel like we might be kissing military butt to say that a soldier should be the #1 overall pick. In terms of food, you want a farmer and/or hunter, right? (And it'd be silly to say that military experience is equivalent to hunting in the wild.) Or in terms of defense, unless you actually do already have guns and ammo, you'd presumably want some kind of gadget guy/scientist who could make something deadly out of what was available. Knowledge of strategy and terrain isn't going to avail much if you have the technological disadvantage. You need a "leader" personality for sure, but that's a personality type that can come from any field.

Hell, maybe Kate Upton should be the #1 pick. Remember that Seinfeld where his beautiful girlfriend cruises through life, unaware that she always gets her way whenever she asks anyone for anything?


I don't want just any soldier, though -- I want someone with leadership, training, and at least some level of tactical experience...

Look - I'm no hunter (though, hard is might be for folks to believe, this bleeding heart actually did bag a deer in his youth... and was then pretty upset about it :-) - but in the near term, I do think I'll be able to bag one of the many domestic animals that will be around... I do think I'm gonna want a farmer high up.

That said - I think you might be right about Kate Upton... Nothing against any of the skilled positions - but assuming this draft is against the population as a whole, I'm pretty sure I'll still very, very skilled options for the rest in rounds 2 through 10.

So - I'll make Kate Upton my #1 pick.

   10849. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4312797)
So you're in favor of "progressive" taxation, except when you're not. Got it.

Oh no, accused of inconsistency by the man who variously cites and dismisses data points like he's walking along an open buffet.

$80 billion, should New York and New Jersey get it, would be approximately the federal "overage" that the two states pay out every year. Another way of framing your argument is that the so-called "taker" states in this metric wouldn't be getting their $260 bonus check for 2013.
   10850. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4312798)
I don't want just any soldier, though -- I want someone with leadership, training, and at least some level of tactical experience...


I want R. Lee Ermey. Just because.
   10851. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4312805)
Oh no, accused of inconsistency by the man who variously cites and dismisses data points like he's walking along an open buffet.

Uh huh.

$80 billion, should New York and New Jersey get it, would be approximately the federal "overage" that the two states pay out every year. Another way of framing your argument is that the so-called "taker" states in this metric wouldn't be getting their $260 bonus check for 2013.

If you believe in "progressive" taxation, there's little or no "overage." New York and New Jersey are very wealthy states.
   10852. Tilden Katz Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4312813)
On the other hand, if you don't believe in progressive taxation, shouldn't you be up in arms that the good ole boy states are taking hard-earned northern dollars?
   10853. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4312814)
And if you don't believe in "progressive" taxation, there is. How unlike you to walk the buffet line, ignore half of an equation, and try to use the other half as a club.

Of course, only one of these equations can win, because it's literally impossible for opposing values to coexist or compromise. And there's no wiggle room anywhere in either of the opposing equations for singular crises, national goodwill, or other absurdities.

Uh huh.

Brevity is... wit.
   10854. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4312815)
Boy, the makers have one little request for the takers and suddenly Joe breaks out the borscht.

Brevity is... wit.


You forgot the second "t".
   10855. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4312816)
And if you don't believe in "progressive" taxation, there is. How unlike you to walk the buffet line, ignore half of an equation, and try to use the other half as a club.
On the other hand, if you don't believe in progressive taxation, shouldn't you be up in arms that the good ole boy states are taking hard-earned northern dollars?

No, because progressive taxation is currently the law of the land. People and states don't get to opt out of their responsibilities, so expecting them to opt out of rights is a weird kind of "gotcha."
   10856. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:57 PM (#4312825)
No, because progressive taxation is currently the law of the land. People and states don't get to opt out of their responsibilities, so expecting them to opt out of rights is a weird kind of "gotcha."


And high earning individuals who take a huge loss one year don't have to pay a lot of taxes that year, so your gotcha is equally weird.
   10857. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:59 PM (#4312828)
And high earning individuals who take a huge loss one year don't have to pay a lot of taxes that year, so your gotcha is equally weird.

People who don't have an income don't pay income taxes. What's your point?
   10858. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4312832)
People who don't have an income don't pay income taxes. What's your point?


If you are going to analogize states to individuals, then it follows logically that if high earning individuals can offset income with losses (which they can), then states can do the same thing. For example, in 2005 I was able to offset some income with un-reimbursed losses from Hurricane Wilma.
   10859. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4312833)
If we get overrun by zombie Biebers -- my first draft picks are random teen girls to use as human shields so I can make my escape.


What if we get over-run by zombie bankers?
   10860. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4312836)
If you are going to analogize states to individuals, then it follows logically that if high earning individuals can offset income with losses (which they can), then states can do the same thing. For example, in 2005 I was able to offset some income with un-reimbursed losses from Hurricane Wilma.

Oh, so your "gotcha" was missing the "gotcha" part. Now I get it.

Anyone impacted by Sandy should be able to take a deduction, and I never claimed otherwise. But the ability to take deductions isn't what's happening (or being discussed) here, and you know that.
   10861. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4312837)
But the ability to take deductions isn't what's happening (or being discussed) here, and you know that.


Of course it is, and you were the one to bring it up.
   10862. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4312839)
Halloween song = Dead Man's party
   10863. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4312840)
Oh, and as for your original gotcha:


If you believe in "progressive" taxation, there's little or no "overage." New York and New Jersey are very wealthy states.


The wealthiest state (per capita), is North Dakota, which receives far more from the federal government (per capita) than NY or NJ.
   10864. Misirlou has S.C.M.O.D.S Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4312841)
Halloween song = Dead Man's party


Thriller
   10865. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:23 PM (#4312846)
My first post-Bieberpocalypse draft choice is the Professor from Gilligan's Island. He won't be able to fix the boat, but he's an expert on everything else. This alleviates the need for chemists and doctors and other such namby-pambys, so choices #2-10 can be farmers, soldiers, and sexy people. Maybe just choose nine female members of the Israel Defense Forces who grew up on rural kibbutzim and be done with it.
   10866. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4312850)
Hell, maybe Kate Upton should be the #1 pick. Remember that Seinfeld where his beautiful girlfriend cruises through life, unaware that she always gets her way whenever she asks anyone for anything?

That only applies in a functioning society with laws and social norms. If the warlords take over the beautiful women all end up getting used as currency.
   10867. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4312851)
If a hypothetical Zombie Bieber bit Keith Richards, who would survive?
   10868. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4312852)
Of course it is, and you were the one to bring it up.

Only in Misirlou's mind is an $80 billion handout the same thing as a person with $0 income paying $0 in taxes, or a person deducting a loss from their pre-tax income.

"Progressive" taxation now includes people in Iowa and Michigan (and Utica, N.Y.) paying to rebuild oceanfront property in New York City. Who knew?

The wealthiest state (per capita), is North Dakota, which receives far more from the federal government (per capita) than NY or NJ.

The current chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is a Democrat from North Dakota. I wonder if there's a connection?
   10869. Lassus Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4312856)

Is there no end to the awesomeness that is Joe Biden?

Vice President Joe Biden made a surprise shopping blitz through the brand-new Washington, D.C., Costco store on Thursday, emerging with a 32-inch Panasonic flat-screen TV, some kids' books, a big apple pie and Duraflame logs. He then brought his loot back to the White House compound.

"I'm looking for pies," Biden told Costco employee Ivey Stewart, who led him through the wilderness of the big-box store's opening-day frenzy.

Biden, who was welcomed by Costco CEO Craig Jelinek and co-founder Jim Sinegal, flashed his membership card (yes, the vice president has his own membership card). "In all honesty, I didn't have my own card. Jill wouldn't let me have one," he said. "I went to get my wife's card, and she said, 'No, No, get your own card.'"
   10870. The District Attorney Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4312857)
If the warlords take over the beautiful women all end up getting used as currency.
Still works!
   10871. Lassus Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4312859)
Vaux - I'm a little late, but I would really like to hear more about the specific problems your teacher friends are having, or are sure they will have, regarding their concert programming. Ages of students, locations, etc., anecdotes.

And regarding this: "And in many U.S. jurisdictions, you will not hear Christmas songs at public school winter concerts. That's not just songs that mention Jesus, it's songs that mention the word Christmas, or Santa, or elves, or anything." I really am interested in where this is happening, specifically.
   10872. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4312861)
The wealthiest state (per capita), is North Dakota,

By the way, North Dakota is 20th in household income and 50th in per capita GDP (per Census and IRS). Where did you see N.D. listed as the wealthiest state (per capita) in the U.S.?
   10873. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4312862)
The wealthiest state (per capita), is North Dakota, which receives far more from the federal government (per capita) than NY or NJ.

The current chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is a Democrat from North Dakota. I wonder if there's a connection?


In per capita tax gain from 1985-1989, North Dakota ranked 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd. Kent Conrad became a freshman Senator in 1987. In 2010, North Dakota ranked 10th. If I had gut feelings like yours, I'd get my stomach stapled.
   10874. Lassus Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4312863)
I would also like to state on the record that as I have found the zombie glut to be only slightly less tiresome than the vampire glut, the World War Z trailer of INSANE ZOMBIE SWARM I found absolutely diverting and interesting. I mean, stories of the problems with production are reaching epic levels and of course it will PROBABLY suck, but I really do like what I've seen so far of the zombie type put forward.

(I've been listening to the audiobook with my GF and sometimes it's been a little tiresome, but I think that's because it's the first audiobook I"ve ever listened to rather than the subject.)
   10875. Srul Itza Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4312866)
I can't tell you how many times I've citied the above passage and posed the same questions, to both believers and non-beleivers, all in futile attempts to demonstrate to people that the Bible, even taken literally, does not say what they think it says.



It is also worth noting that it was not written in English, so it may not really say what even you think it says.

From my point of view, the OT was written by the Jews, for the Jews, and every time one of the uncircumcised reads it, they are bound to screw it up. Just stick with your Gospels, goyim, and leave our fairy tales to us.
   10876. spike Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4312868)
The wealthiest state (per capita), is North Dakota, which receives far more from the federal government (per capita) than NY or NJ.

The current chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is a Democrat from North Dakota. I wonder if there's a connection?

Oh. My. God. I can only shudder at what the rest of the stuff I can't see looks like.
   10877. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4312869)
In per capita tax gain from 1985-1989, North Dakota ranked 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd. Kent Conrad was a freshman Senator in 1987. In 2010, North Dakota ranked 10th. If I had gut feelings like yours, I'd get my stomach stapled.

This must be another one of those gotcha's that's missing the "gotcha" part. It appears (1) you don't believe the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is looking out for his own state, and/or (2) you didn't see me call Misirlou's entire premise into question (#10872).

Oh. My. God. I can only shudder at what the rest of the stuff I can't see looks like.

Sounds like withdrawal symptoms. Maybe you should have a drink.
   10878. Srul Itza Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4312875)
How could someone be offended by the fact that 99% of the kids and teachers in the school want to have a Christmas concert?


Christmas.

Christ Mass.

Christmas is a celebration of the birth of your Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ. Why should we be upset if schools are engaged in Christian indoctrination. What could be wrong with that.

Of course, you could have a Christmas concert without any reference whatsoever to Christ. No Silent Night. No Adeste Fideles. No God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen. Etc. In which case, why bother calling it a Christmas concert, why not call it a Santa Claus concert? Or a Holiday Concert. Because at that point, calling it a Christmas concert, but ignoring "the reason for the season", is frankly offensive to true Christians.

Then again, if you really want to be traditional, you SHOULD call it a Winter concert. After all, nobody has the faintest idea with Yshua ben-Joseph was actually born; the early Christians co-opted the pagan winter solstice festivals (as religions have been and continue to co-opt other religions). So calling it a Winter Concert is actually a return to tradition.
   10879. spike Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4312880)
Seems N Dakota has been at or near the top of the leaderboard since 1983. How Conrad pulled it off while State Tax Commissioner is a testament to his nefarious genius.
   10880. Srul Itza Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4312883)
Oh, by the way, I grew up in a largely Jewish-Catholic suburb, and we had no problem with hearing "Merry Christmas" and replying "Happy Chanukkah", with Menorahs in the window for the Tennenbaums, and Tannenbaums for the O'Reillys. We all went caroling together, singing Silent Night, We Three Kings, and so on.

The fact is, because there were enough of us that we did not feel put upon (the schools may have been open for Jewish Holidays, but no work was ever done on them because of how empty the classes were), we did not feel the need to make an issue of anything.
   10881. BDC Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:50 PM (#4312884)
I dunno. I went to public high school in New Jersey in the 1970s: a majority-Catholic school, but several Jews and a few Protestants for variety. At our winter concert, the obligatory finale every year was Handel's Hallelujah Chorus, which I can still sing mainly only in the mostly-tuneless bass line. It's overplayed, sure, but it is a kick-ass piece of music. If you water down school music to a certain point (and I am a stone atheist and total church/state boundary guy), WTH becomes the point of musical culture? You might as well never sing words again to anything.

Times have changed, I know, and kids and cats are all over my lawn.

EDIT: My "I dunno" was not WRT Srul's 10880, which seems to reflect my own experience, but about the topic in general
   10882. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:50 PM (#4312885)
Seems N Dakota has been at or near the top of the leaderboard since 1983. How Conrad pulled it off while State Tax Commissioner is a testament to his nefarious genius.

The fine print hurts your and Gonfalon's point, which I guess neither of you noticed.
   10883. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4312887)
So is Joe really arguing that states hit by a natural disaster should not get aid from the Federal Government? Really?

Well if so, then that's stupid. If not (It is OK to get aid) then are you really just ######## about the cost? Why not let it play out and see what the cost is?
   10884. Srul Itza Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4312888)
Is anyone really offended by "The 12 days of Christmas" or "The Christmas Song" ("Chestnuts roasting on an open fire...")?


I am because they are lousy songs (unless it is Nat King Cole singing Chestnuts roasting on an open fire"). If you are going to sing Christmas Carols, sing Christmas Carols, and stop apologizing. Am I supposed to stop marveling at great Cathedrals, the Sistine Chapel, great music, great art, because it's inspired by religion. I would much rather hear a choir singing Adeste Fidelis, O Holy Night, Angels we Have Heard on High, etc., etc. They are better musically and they have a spirit that secular Christmas songs simply do not. If someone wants to throw Maoz Tsur into the mix, as a Jewish equivalent, I would not mind. But the Dreidel song? Gag me with a latke, please.
   10885. Srul Itza Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4312890)
Jack Russell terrier of the USA; noisy, destructive, and more trouble than it's worth.


As the owner if a Jack Russell mix, let me be the first to wish you an Unhappy Christmas and a Miserable New Year.
   10886. Steve Treder Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4312891)
I am because they are lousy songs (unless it is Nat King Cole singing Chestnuts roasting on an open fire").

The latter (written by the marvelous Mel Torme, and you're correct that Nat King's version of it is the best) is a wonderful song in every way. "The 12 Days of Christmas" is utter horridness.
   10887. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4312892)
So is Joe really arguing that states hit by a natural disaster should not get aid from the Federal Government? Really?
Joe doesn't think states should benefit from being a part of the United States.
   10888. Dr. Vaux Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4312896)
Lassus, my girlfriend teaches in Baltimore County, grades K through 5, and was told in no uncertain terms that there were to be no songs that mentioned Christmas or things having to do with Christmas, secular or not. We don't know that many people here, but in speaking to acquaintances have been given to understand that that's basically the way it works in Maryland. In the end, it's up to the individual school's principal, so it's possible that out in the western counties or on the eastern shore, things are more relaxed.

One of her best friends from college teaches in Rochester, New York, and has the same situation (same grade levels, also), and on Facebook, we see comments to that effect from their other classmates, most of whom are in New York (various parts of the state). My girlfriend also taught in the Burlington, Vermont area for several years, grades 6 through 8, and in that situation there was not an official school policy against Christmas-mentioning music (religious content was officially discouraged, but not secular Santa/elves/etc.), so she did program it even though a few parents would complain. The kids of parents who complained didn't have to participate, of course.

What's interesting is that the complainers were without exception thoroughly Western atheists. The same type of parent also complained when she programed patriotic songs. We haven't been involved with the public schools in Maryland for long enough to know who did the complaining that led to the policies that are in place here. Certainly the area is more diverse in terms of cultural background than Vermont is. The interdict on Halloween, we've been told, stems from the large complement of Jehovah's Witnesses in this particular school, and isn't necessarily a broad policy.

For the record, I'll reiterate that both of us, as well as every other music teacher whose views on the matter I know, advocate cultural inclusion--the representation of all cultures present, and maybe even some besides. Neither of us is religious (my girlfriend is less religious than I am--I've claimed here to believe in a God, though it's more that I'm not really willing to admit to myself that I don't; she's quite definite on the matter), and the last thing we want to do is pressure kids to believe in a particular religion. But as others have expressed, partaking of art that was inspired by a religion is precisely that and no more. And partaking of art that was inspired by department stores and candy companies is even less than that.
   10889. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:07 PM (#4312900)
The ones in 28 Days Later weren't zombies, either. They're people infected with a disease.

Aren't they all?

The Zombies in 28 Days Later were mindless eating machines. The creatures in I Am Legend could think and were forming a society.
   10890. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4312902)
So is Joe really arguing that states hit by a natural disaster should not get aid from the Federal Government? Really?

Yes, I have this crazy idea that people in Michigan and Tennessee shouldn't have to subsidize wealthier people's desire to rebuild oceanfront homes and buildings.

BBTF is a funny place. If some city votes to subsidize a new ballpark by $2 million, all hell breaks loose. But giving $80,000,000,000 so wealthy cities, businesses, and individuals can rebuild homes and businesses in high-risk areas? No problem.

Well if so, then that's stupid. If not (It is OK to get aid) then are you really just ######## about the cost? Why not let it play out and see what the cost is?

"Let it play out and see what the cost is" — a succinct, if unfortunate, summary of the modern liberal's position on government spending.
   10891. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4312905)
ure - the weather is going to miserable without the creature comforts, but given the rotting nature of the walkers and such - these extreme cold/thawing events would seem to clear out the zombie herds pretty significantly, wouldn't they? How would a walker be able to "survive" in below freezing snowdrifts?


<sigh>

Walkers don't survive. THEY ARE DEAD! The reason the infected from 28 Days/Weeks are not actually zombies is that they ARE NOT DEAD. When the heroes of the first movie survive by *waiting for the infected to starve to death* you can be pretty sure that the infected were not, in fact, the walking *dead.*
   10892. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4312908)
given the rotting nature of the walkers and such - these extreme cold/thawing events would seem to clear out the zombie herds pretty significantly, wouldn't they? How would a walker be able to "survive" in below freezing snowdrifts?

People should pretty much head anywhere that isn't currently heavily populated and experiencing mild weather. Head North. Head South. Head to the mountains. Head to the swamps. Head to the forests. Head to the water. Go anywhere just don't hang out in a major metropolis. A body that isn't reproducing cells, repairing damages, hydrating, and fighting off pests falls apart very very quickly.
   10893. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4312911)
Does NY currently pay more in Federal taxes than they receive? How about we just give them all the money they give the Federal Government? The notion that NY is asking others to pay for their mishap is such a stupid position to take.
   10894. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4312913)
Lassus, my girlfriend teaches in Baltimore County, [...] but in speaking to acquaintances have been given to understand that that's basically the way it works in Maryland. ...

One of her best friends from college teaches in Rochester, New York, and has the same situation [...] My girlfriend also taught in the Burlington, Vermont area for several years, grades 6 through 8, and in that situation there was not an official school policy against Christmas-mentioning music (religious content was officially discouraged, but not secular Santa/elves/etc.), so she did program it even though a few parents would complain. The kids of parents who complained didn't have to participate, of course.

What's interesting is that the complainers were without exception thoroughly Western atheists. The same type of parent also complained when she programed patriotic songs. ...

Hmm ...

It appears we have a liberal who's shocked, just shocked, at the results of modern liberal governance.
   10895. SteveF Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4312915)
Does NY currently pay more in Federal taxes than they receive?


You mean to say that all those lawyers and bankers in New York City actually deserve the money they receive in compensation? Hey man, that's not their money. That's blood money they've earned off the real labor of Walmart employees. They didn't make that money!
   10896. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:26 PM (#4312917)
According to Wiki in 2007 the Feds collected almost 245 billion dollars from NY and 122 billion dollars from NJ. The Feds spent 158 billion dollars on NY and 64 billion dollars on NJ. So yeah, just give them back their money that they give the Feds and nobody else from any other state has to spend a dime on NY or NJ.
   10897. Joe Kehoskie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4312918)
According to Wiki in 2007 the Feds collected almost 245 billion dollars from NY and 122 billion dollars from NJ. The Feds spent 158 billion dollars on NY and 64 billion dollars on NJ. So yeah, just give them back their money that they give the Feds and nobody else from any other state has to spend a dime on NY or NJ.

Hey, look, another liberal who's come out against "progressive" taxation. Maybe these threads aren't a waste of time after all.
   10898. Dr. Vaux Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4312923)
It appears we have a liberal who's shocked, just shocked, at the results of modern liberal governance.


Joe, things like this do make me almost start feeling like a Republican every once in a while, but only until the Republicans start ranting about "legitimate rape" and proposing to ban same-sex marriage again, and I remember that the constraints they want to place on our actions are much worse than the alternative. But to take this example specifically, it's not a law that we can't sing Christmas songs, it's a policy, which isn't the same thing--it wasn't put in place by legislation, it was presumably a reaction to years of occasional but aggressive complaining. So it may have something to do with "liberals," but it has nothing to do with "modern liberal governance."
   10899. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4312924)
How come it can't be, "a fool and his laptop are soon parted"?
   10900. Lassus Posted: November 29, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4312926)
Thanks, Vaux. I'd be curious what the written policies are, and the adherence in general on the ground, I suppose. I must doubt, I know, it's irritating as I'm not there, but I still have it. I appreciate your input and knowledge.


Adeste Fidelis
Sure.
O Holy Night
Absolutely
Angels we Have Heard on High
Hold on, let me load this rifle.
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Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1960 Discussion
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Last: Chris Fluit

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