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Wednesday, October 31, 2012

OTP November 2012 - Moneypoll! The Pundits vs. The Election-Data Nerds

Come next Tuesday night, we’ll get a resolution (let’s hope) to a great ongoing battle of 2012: not just the Presidential election between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, but the one between the pundits trying to analyze that race with their guts and a new breed of statistics gurus trying to forecast it with data.

In Election 2012 as seen by the pundits–political journalists on the trail, commentators in cable-news studios–the campaign is a jump ball. There’s a slight lead for Mitt Romney in national polls and slight leads for Barack Obama in swing-state polls, and no good way of predicting next Tuesday’s outcome beyond flipping a coin. ...

Bonus link: Esquire - The Enemies of Nate Silver

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:42 PM | 11298 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mr president, off-topic, politics, sabermetrics, usa

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   11001. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4313295)
People are always trying to pigeonhole other people. I've got well over 500 books on the rise of Hitler, American anti-Semitism, and the Holocaust, and I've had many people look at them and assume I'm Jewish.

How many make the opposite assumption (that you are a neo-Nazi)? And of those, how many don't turn tail and leave the store, but rather linger...


Funny you ask that particular question. Back in the 80's, one of the books I had in my shop was a set of Houston Stewart Chamberlain's Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, a rather infamous tract published in the decade before the First World War. Chamberlain was a Germanophilic Englishman who was a serious anti-Semite, and it's been said that Hitler regarded this particular book as one of the intellectual inspirations for Mein Kampf. It's quite an uncommon book, and having had to travel all the way into the no-telephone part of central Pennsylvania to find it, I was quite proud to be able to offer it in my shop, along with books by Raul Hilberg, Deborah Lipstadt, Eugene Kogon, etc. But within just a few days after I'd put it on the shelf, a self-announced Jewish man picked it up, slammed it on the counter, and started giving me this elongated "DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS BOOK IS?" harangue, demanding that I remove it from the shelf immediately. It took me a good ten minutes to calm this excited little man, and I considered myself extremely lucky that he never came into my shop again. People often just see what they want to see.
   11002. spike Posted: November 30, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4313298)
Third on Carol of the Bells
   11003. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4313315)
She's very young and has the hips/boobs that signify "fertility"; at 5'10 with all the curves she has, I'm not sure it's fair to characterize her as "dainty".

Put her next to an average woman and I think dainty probably works.
   11004. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4313316)
If it was just you and your future partner trying to make a new life, then yeah; find yourself a sturdy farmgirl. Looks optional.


Looks don't have to be optional if its Nicole Curtis. Anyone seen her show on DIY Network? She renovates old houses, and can do every bit of the work herself, from carpentry to tile to laying sod to driving a backhoe. If we're doing a draft of apocalypse companions, she's going first.

   11005. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4313321)
Put her next to an average woman and I think dainty probably works.


Does anyone really think stars and starlets are going to maintain those figures in zombie apocalypse?
   11006. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4313324)
Does anyone really think stars and starlets are going to maintain those figures in zombie apocalypse?

That's kind of my point.

Do you want a greyhound that's put on some pounds or do you want a healthy labrador?
   11007. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4313326)
Looks don't have to be optional if its Nicole Curtis. Anyone seen her show on DIY Network? She renovates old houses, and can do every bit of the work herself, from carpentry to tile to laying sod to driving a backhoe. If we're doing a draft of apocalypse companions, she's going first.


I might go with Jillian Michaels. I'll need a bodyguard.
   11008. The Good Face Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4313328)
Put her next to an average woman and I think dainty probably works.


Does anyone really think stars and starlets are going to maintain those figures in zombie apocalypse?


I figure most folks who survive a decent length of time would probably wind up with a lean, sinewy look. Everyone's physical activity would go up a ton, while the food supply would be scarce and irregular. Fatties would be first to go. Gym bunnies of either gender might do OK, but their diets and the kind of exercise they'd be getting would change, and so would their physiques.
   11009. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4313333)
I figure most folks who survive a decent length of time would probably wind up with a lean, sinewy look. Everyone's physical activity would go up a ton, while the food supply would be scarce and irregular. Fatties would be first to go. Gym bunnies of either gender might do OK, but their diets and the kind of exercise they'd be getting would change, and so would their physiques.


ZombApoc is pretty much your paleodiet/Crossfit workout dream. You're basically eating hunted animal proteins and foraged fruits and nuts. At least in the first few decades of ZA you're not going to get a lot of grain based carbs. Nobody's going to be farming and processing wheat or corn in volume. And the nomadic lifestyle, both for hunting animals for food and sprinting away from zombie hordes is going to favor the CrossFit mentality, minus the modified Olympic lifting.
   11010. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4313334)
Are people really trying to use logic in arguments about who to take post zombie apocalypse? The whole zombie apocalypse premise (and underlying zombie biology and ecology) is more than a little illogical.

But hey I am not going to survive anyway (probably) so I'll gladly pair up with a hottie and enjoy myself while I last.

EDIT: That said personality and intelligence are more important for hottie status than looks anyway.
   11011. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4313341)
ZombApoc is pretty much your paleodiet/Crossfit workout dream. You're basically eating hunted animal proteins and foraged fruits and nuts. At least in the first few decades of ZA you're not going to get a lot of grain based carbs. Nobody's going to be farming and processing wheat or corn in volume. And the nomadic lifestyle, both for hunting animals for food and sprinting away from zombie hordes is going to favor the CrossFit mentality, minus the modified Olympic lifting.

Initially people are going to be loading up on processed food as all the perishable food will have vanished rather quickly. After that we'll get semi nomadic farming/hunting depending on the region. Zombies aren't territorial and if 90% of the population is wiped out because of zombies there isn't any real competition for land and resources between sentient beings. A tribe of 12 or os people could utilize several square miles of land to create and process their food supply while putting their base camp in a well protected area.
   11012. Lassus Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4313348)
From the previous broken page. (Not that it needs to be answered, but nobody wanted to be on that page any more.)

I will also modify my comment on all classical music being religious to note that I consider any thinking or creative act that is hinged on nostalgic longing to be religious (which shouldn't be confused with "spiritual" per se, nor should it be confused with any specific religion.)

The trouble with this is that as you are defining your own term with "religious" that no one else could be expected to have by default. If I don't agree with your definition of religious, there's nowhere to go.

Regarding that definition, the creative act that brings about a Mozart piano concerto is no more nostalgic than any of your 45 bands in 45 days. Music that is defined as classical, as stated above, can certainly be religious, or nostalgic, or both. However, the amount of music composed that can without debate be classified as classical and not belong to anything nostalgic or religious is so immense, it makes your definition absolutely unusable.

   11013. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4313354)
as i have mentioned before, i am feeling good about a doomsday scenario. got my own well. have large underground tanks filled with fuel (unleaded and diesel). lots of guns and ammo. hunting knives. unobstructed line of fire around the main homestead. generators. horses. dogs, both hunting and herding. farm animals obviously though not a lot of breeding stock. full knowledge of hunting, foraging and raising all kinds of animals and plants. medical supplies. field dressing knowledge. daughter is a doc so if i can get her to the farm that's another plus.

i'm liking the wallbangers vs. the zombies challenge

it would be kind of sweet if my ex son in law was a zombie and i could with no repercussions chop off his head. that would be a net positive outcome right there.

   11014. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4313356)
It is not zombies or music, but any thoughts on the UN Palestinian vote?

For myself I am at the point where almost any change is welcomed in the hopes it will help them get out of this stupid cycle of violence and hate they (all parties in the region) are currently in.
   11015. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4313361)
as i have mentioned before, i am feeling good about a doomsday scenario. got my own well. have large underground tanks filled with fuel (unleaded and diesel). lots of guns and ammo. hunting knives. unobstructed line of fire around the main homestead. generators. horses. dogs, both hunting and herding. farm animals obviously though not a lot of breeding stock. full knowledge of hunting, foraging and raising all kinds of animals and plants. medical supplies. field dressing knowledge. daughter is a doc so if i can get her to the farm that's another plus.


On the downside, you're like 120 already. Hell, you may actually be a zombie for all we know.
   11016. The Good Face Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4313363)
ZombApoc is pretty much your paleodiet/Crossfit workout dream. You're basically eating hunted animal proteins and foraged fruits and nuts. At least in the first few decades of ZA you're not going to get a lot of grain based carbs. Nobody's going to be farming and processing wheat or corn in volume. And the nomadic lifestyle, both for hunting animals for food and sprinting away from zombie hordes is going to favor the CrossFit mentality, minus the modified Olympic lifting.


Maybe the paleodiet, not so sure on Crossfit. Explosive power/burst strength isn't really that important in a ZA; slow zombies can be escaped with a steady run as opposed to sprinting that leaves you winded. Fast zombies can't be outrun. Engaging in melee combat with any kind of zombie should be a last resort only unless you're Zatoichi or somesuch.

I'm thinking cardio/endurance training is the way to go here. Combined with enough strength training to carry heavy amounts of gear a very long way. Doing a lot of rough hiking and/or rock climbing would probably be helpful.
   11017. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM (#4313364)
(makes note to scratch sam off welcome refugee list)
   11018. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4313370)
I figure most folks who survive a decent length of time would probably wind up with a lean, sinewy look. Everyone's physical activity would go up a ton, while the food supply would be scarce and irregular. Fatties would be first to go. Gym bunnies of either gender might do OK, but their diets and the kind of exercise they'd be getting would change, and so would their physiques.


One thing I remember about the Nathaniel Philibrick book about the wreck of the whaleship Essex was that the fat captain survived three months in an open boat (gnawing human bones and so forth) reasonably well. My guess is that a fat person who was basically healthy but carrying 50+ extra pounds (a former college linebacker would be an ideal example) would be an ideal survival candidate. A lot of it depends on the realities of the situation. If food is scarce the fat person will have more reserves to survive and so is a better bet than the skinny model. If there are lots of Piggly Wigglys to loot and the main problem is surviving attacks then the slow and unfit would be the first to go. We need to define the apocalypse before predicting who will come out of it OK.
   11019. The Good Face Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4313375)
One thing I remember about the Nathaniel Philibrick book about the wreck of the whaleship Essex was that the fat captain survived three months in an open boat (gnawing human bones and so forth) reasonably well. My guess is that a fat person who was basically healthy but carrying 50+ extra pounds (a former college linebacker would be an ideal example) would be an ideal survival candidate. A lot of it depends on the realities of the situation. If food is scarce the fat person will have more reserves to survive and so is a better bet than the skinny model. If there are lots of Piggly Wigglys to loot and the main problem is surviving attacks then the slow and unfit would be the first to go. We need to define the apocalypse before predicting who will come out of it OK.


Since the defining feature of a Zombie Apocalypse is, you know, zombies, I think we have to assume that fighting and running from zombies will be a critical element of the scenario.
   11020. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4313377)
ZombApoc is pretty much your paleodiet/Crossfit workout dream. You're basically eating hunted animal proteins and foraged fruits and nuts.


I think you're more likely to spend the first two years living off Spam and Twinkies.
   11021. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4313380)
Since the defining feature of a Zombie Apocalypse is


As far as I can tell it is regular humans being losers and backstabbing each other, while the zombies are often set dressing (that wants to kill you I admit), but I don't like the genre so I probably shouldn't be in charge of defining it.
   11022. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4313383)
I nominate Carol of the Bells as the best of the best,


It's about the only Xmas music I like very much. I guess Springsteen doing "Merry Xmas Baby" is good.
   11023. Lassus Posted: November 30, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4313388)
The infinite harmonic arrangement possibilities of "Silent Night" make it one of my enduring faves. As many nerds, I prefer it in the original Klingon German.

As far as other tunes, I'd go with "Coventry Carol" and "Wassail Song".
   11024. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4313389)
Since the defining feature of a Zombie Apocalypse is, you know, zombies, I think we have to assume that fighting and running from zombies will be a critical element of the scenario.


But there's so much more to it. Fast zombies or slow zombies? How easy to kill? Do they eventually die of starvation? If they starve to death then your best bet is to hole up somewhere and try to starve more slowly than the zombies. That requires a different skill set (or at least body type) than a situation where you're fighting zombie hordes all of the time. The starvation situation would be a wonderful opportunity for people who say they're fat only because of a slow metabolism to put up or shut up.
   11025. Lassus Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4313393)
I also agree with Bitter Mouse on the Israeli/Palestinian UN thing.
   11026. BDC Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4313394)
Of carols, I like the offbeat, less-played, older ones: Bring a Torch Jeannette Isabella, I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day (there are a couple of tunes to that one), Once in Royal David's City, Winds through the Olive Trees. Carol of the Bells is nice, but by nature harder just to sing in the shower or play on the piano.

My kids agree that come the Zombie Apocalypse I will be one of the first to go. If you can't buy prewashed bag salad, I'll quickly starve.
   11027. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4313396)
My favorite carol is "The Holly and the Ivy". It might be my favorite song, period. I'll also add myself to the chorus of atheists whose favorite music, art and architecture is almost all religious and mostly Christian. For example, when I was in England and Wales in the spring I managed to hit 28 churches or cathedrals in 16 days.
   11028. BDC Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4313399)
when I was in England and Wales in the spring I managed to hit 28 churches or cathedrals in 16 days

A walking tour I did of the churches in the City of London (helped by John Betjeman's guidebook) is still one of the best days of my life. In the last few years I have covered a small portion of the Backsteingotik "trail" that stretches around the Baltic, finding old and rebuilt brick churches in out-of-the-way places. Wonderful stuff, despite my unbelief.
   11029. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4313400)
For example, when I was in England and Wales in the spring I managed to hit 28 churches or cathedrals in 16 days.


You need to look up now and again.
   11030. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4313402)
There will never be a zombie apocalypse and not because it is a fantasy concept but because a zombie outbreak would never get large enough to cause human society to collapse and the world's population diminished by any great degree.
   11031. BDC Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4313403)
I guess I really should try to post on-topic comments :) OK, is there anyone who thinks that the "Benghazi Talking Points" isn't the lamest excuse for a scandal in the history of scandals? The only reason anyone cares about this stuff is that they hold the unspoken warrant that Barack Obama is fixing to surrender to al Qaeda the moment he's safely re-inaugurated.
   11032. Ron J2 Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4313404)
Mouse I just don't see how the vote helps things. I also don't see how it hurts -- beyond playing to the fears of certain elements in Israel (the "they hates us" faction).
   11033. just plain joe Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4313408)
I guess Springsteen doing "Merry Xmas Baby" is good.


Many years back I saw Springsteen (& the E Street Band) in a mid-December concert. They played "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" as part of the encore, complete with Clarence Clemons dressed in a Santa suit.
   11034. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4313414)
There will never be a zombie apocalypse and not because it is a fantasy concept but because a zombie outbreak would never get large enough to cause human society to collapse and the world's population diminished by any great degree.

The Others take you.
   11035. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4313420)
Mouse I just don't see how the vote helps things. I also don't see how it hurts


Me either actually, but like I said at this point I value change for changes sake. I think the region needs a Gandhi, Mandela, or MLK, luck, and time. Absent that I will settle for random non-harmful change and the US not actively screwing things up in the region*.

* The US part is included because I want my country to at least not be making things worse.
   11036. Steve Treder Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4313421)
I don't know if anyone else will find this as interesting as I do, given that I've lived in the South Bay Area all my life and worked in and around Silicon Valley for my entire career.

Asian-Americans make up half of the Bay Area's technology workforce, and their double-digit employment gains came from jobs lost among white tech workers, according to an analysis by this newspaper of Census Bureau data released Thursday.

The dramatic shift in the changing composition of the high-tech workforce represents a new generation of homegrown and imported workers drilled in science, technology, engineering and math studies. But the shift in workplace demographics -- at least among tech companies -- fails to reflect the gains of California's Hispanic and Latino population, which lost ground in tech jobs along with African-Americans.

"It's the new world -- a world in which whites are not the majority,"

... The tech employment picture hardly represents the growing number of Hispanics and Latinos who make up 27 percent of Santa Clara County, English-Lueck said.

But it does reflect the young and growing number of Asian-Americans "who were raised with a very strong STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) background" and are going into high tech.

Asian-American software developers, in particular, saw huge gains all around the Bay Area: from nearly 45 percent of those workers in 2000 to more than 53 percent in Alameda County; and from nearly 50 percent to nearly 60 percent in both San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, the center of Silicon Valley.

Ryan Shelby, a 28-year-old African-American doctoral candidate in mechanical engineering at UC Berkeley, said young African-American and Hispanic students are often raised in communities that don't stress science and math curriculums that are likely to guide them into tech jobs.

Shelby grew up on a farm in Letohatchee, Ala., where his love for engineering started by working on his father's tractor.

"I've been beating my head over this," Shelby said. "There's a lack of mentorship early on for a lot of these young students, who don't have these facilities and teachers to expose them to math, science and technology early on."

So Shelby supports greater outreach to women and underrepresented minorities at UC Berkeley's College of Engineering, which now has an associate dean of "Equity and Inclusion."

While 34 percent of African-American and Hispanic students start out in engineering across the country, only 13 percent leave with degrees, he said.

Meredith Leu grew up studying STEM courses surrounded by other Asian-American students and graduated with honors from Mission San Jose High School in Fremont.

Now, as a 19-year-old junior at SJSU studying computer science, Leu said many non-Asians don't appreciate "the Asian culture, where there is a deep work ethic that America hasn't really bought into yet."
   11037. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4313422)
The Others take you.

You know nothing.
   11038. The Good Face Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4313423)
But there's so much more to it. Fast zombies or slow zombies? How easy to kill? Do they eventually die of starvation? If they starve to death then your best bet is to hole up somewhere and try to starve more slowly than the zombies. That requires a different skill set (or at least body type) than a situation where you're fighting zombie hordes all of the time. The starvation situation would be a wonderful opportunity for people who say they're fat only because of a slow metabolism to put up or shut up.


Zombies that can starve are no zombies at all!

Even if they did require food though, trying to starve them out by turtling probably wouldn't work unless you had a TON of resources. Zombies could just cannibalize dead zombies when the going gets rough, and they wouldn't suffer from the effects of starvation the way living, feeling humans would.
   11039. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4313425)
Asian-Americans make up half of the Bay Area's technology workforce, and their double-digit employment gains came from jobs lost among white tech workers,

So there has been no job growth in silicone valley?
   11040. Ron J2 Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4313427)
There will never be a zombie apocalypse and not because it is a fantasy concept but because a zombie outbreak would never get large enough to cause human society to collapse and the world's population diminished by any great degree.


Since this is a stats oriented site: Mathematical model of a zombie outbreak (includes MATLAB code)

"In summary, a zombie outbreak is likely to lead to the collapse of civilisation, unless it
is dealt with quickly. While aggressive quarantine may contain the epidemic, or a cure may
lead to coexistence of humans and zombies, the most effective way to contain the rise of
the undead is to hit hard and hit often. As seen in the movies, it is imperative that zombies
are dealt with quickly, or else we are all in a great deal of trouble."
   11041. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4313428)
Jack Carter, #10,903--
GB--do you have a link to the info you're posting? It's the kind of stuff I love poking around in.

Yes, me too; between that and the stats showing increased House incumbency, I'm getting a lot of my 11th grade Social Studies homework done. I guess our froward friend does serve a purpose. This site had the most tax-in/tax-out information, although it's only good through 2005. For 2006 on, I had to do it piecemeal, with a few non-comprehensive sites like this one.
   11042. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4313429)
Even if they did require food though, trying to starve them out by turtling probably wouldn't work unless you had a TON of resources. Zombies could just cannibalize dead zombies when the going gets rough, and they wouldn't suffer from the effects of starvation the way living, feeling humans would.

Zombies don't fellow zombies nor do they eat downed zombies. If they did we wouldn't have a zombie apocalypse.

Hiding isn't a good choice if you live in a major metropolis as your food supply is scarce and your predators numerous. If you live out in Wyoming or Bucktooth, Indiana it can be a good choice.
   11043. Srul Itza Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4313430)
Absolutely, and I think that we can all be eternally grateful that Bach, Beethoven and Buxtehude weren't secular humanists.


Why? Talent is talent. You assume that their works would not have been as magnificent if they had not been so inspired. Who is to say they might not have been greater, if their talent had not been shackled to dogma?

I'm not saying you may not be right. I am saying it is an unprovable assumption.
   11044. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4313432)


Since this is a stats oriented site: Mathematical model of a zombie outbreak (includes MATLAB code)


I think this link came up in the last conversation about this and I didn't agree with it then. The model uses some assumptions that I don't really agree with (I believe). Zombies are just too easy to kill, impair, outrun, and avoid infection from for them to ever overtake humanity or seriously impair us.
   11045. Lassus Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4313435)
Absolutely, and I think that we can all be eternally grateful that Bach, Beethoven and Buxtehude weren't secular humanists.

Bach was not inspired by god to write a cantata about coffee.
   11046. McCoy Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4313440)
   11047. Jick Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4313442)
Bach was also inspired by insomnia to write the Goldberg Variations. (Not his insomnia, but still.)
   11048. Srul Itza Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4313445)
In general I don't like zombie stories. There are some good ones but the whole trope is WAY overdone and not that great to start with.


Seconded, Thirded and Fourthed. I never saw the appeal beyond the campiness of the original George Romero works.

At this point, I am done with all forms of sci-fi-last remaining humans-dsytopic future works, including post-alien invasion apocalypses, post-plague apocalypses, zombie apocalypses, and post breakdown of technological civilization apocalypses. The whole genre is completely played out for me.
   11049. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4313446)
Haydn was inspired to write much of his music by Prince Esterházy's money.
   11050. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4313447)
She's very young and has the hips/boobs that signify "fertility"; at 5'10 with all the curves she has, I'm not sure it's fair to characterize her as "dainty".

Put her next to an average woman and I think dainty probably works.
Yup. The average woman has gotten huge in my lifetime. I've been places where a 16 year old girl who clocks in at 170 is worrying about her weight, only to be told by a half dozen adult women going from 225 to 250 that she has nothing, absolutely nothing, to worry about and doesn't have a problem. (Oh, and anyone who tells her she does is sexist pig.)

ZombApoc is pretty much your paleodiet/Crossfit workout dream. You're basically eating hunted animal proteins and foraged fruits and nuts. At least in the first few decades of ZA you're not going to get a lot of grain based carbs. Nobody's going to be farming and processing wheat or corn in volume. And the nomadic lifestyle, both for hunting animals for food and sprinting away from zombie hordes is going to favor the CrossFit mentality, minus the modified Olympic lifting.
No way. People on the run are going to have very short lives. The people who make it are going to be the ones with the skills and sense to find some acres to wall off, raise animals and crops for food, fend off not just zombies but marauders. Look at your average farm couple--that's what our typical ZA survivors are going to resemble.

The whole zombie apocalypse premise (and underlying zombie biology and ecology) is more than a little illogical.
Hey, sour patch! Take it on over to the steroids thread!

I guess I really should try to post on-topic comments :) OK, is there anyone who thinks that the "Benghazi Talking Points" isn't the lamest excuse for a scandal in the history of scandals?
You know, I honestly don't know. I intuited early it wasn't, but the fact that Ray and John McCain think it is definitely means it wasn't.


   11051. formerly dp Posted: November 30, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4313456)
The whole genre is completely played out for me.
Sucks for you, you're going to have to live with missing out on this.
   11052. Ron J2 Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4313457)
McCoy, the beauty of their approach is that you don't have to accept their assumptions. The assumptions are all documented and the trail of equations is there.

(This doesn't copy properly, but it'll give a notion of the detail the authors went to)

Susceptibles can become deceased through ‘natural’ causes, i.e., non-zombie-related
death (parameter ). The removed class consists of individuals who have died, either
through attack or natural causes. Humans in the removed class can resurrect and become
a zombie (parameter ). Susceptibles can become zombies through transmission via an
encounter with a zombie (transmission parameter ). Only humans can become infected
through contact with zombies, and zombies only have a craving for human flesh so we do
not consider any other life forms in the model. New zombies can only come from two
sources:
The resurrected from the newly deceased (removed group).
Susceptibles who have ‘lost’ an encounter with a zombie.
In addition, we assume the birth rate is a constant, . Zombies move to the removed class
upon being ‘defeated’. This can be done by removing the head or destroying the brain of
the zombie (parameter ). We also assume that zombies do not attack/defeat other zombies.
Thus, the basic model is given by
S0 = ???? SZ ???? S
Z0 = SZ + R ???? SZ
R0 = S + SZ ???? R:
This model is illustrated in Figure 1.

(after which it gets complicated)
   11053. Srul Itza Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4313462)
Leu said many non-Asians don't appreciate "the Asian culture, where there is a deep work ethic that America hasn't really bought into yet."


Racist assumption
   11054. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4313464)
post 11050:

where do all the hobby farmers and organic farmers fall? because they are farmers but i doubt most of them would adapt to a hostile environment very quickly

i also think you overstate my peer group's abilities in general
   11055. Steve Treder Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4313466)
Asian-Americans make up half of the Bay Area's technology workforce, and their double-digit employment gains came from jobs lost among white tech workers,


So there has been no job growth in silicone valley?

No, the article is misleading on that point. There has been net job growth in Silicon Valley over the past decade, though clearly not as dramatic as the high-tech sector job growth in Asian countries.
   11056. Langer Monk Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4313468)
For the zombie inclined, DayZ could be a really interesting game centered on the premise. The mod based on Arma2 was pretty good.

In the great Zombie apocalypse draft, don't forget water and probably fishing. I have no idea where the group in Walking Dead are getting water from, but I think they'd have died of thirst by now.
   11057. Srul Itza Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4313469)
you're going to have to live with missing out on this.


The number of better ways to spend my time is astronomical.

I don't play video games.

I can't say I never have. I played asteroids. On an MIT mainframe around 1973. Also pong.

Much preferred pinball machines, so I never got into it.
   11058. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4313471)
GB--thanks very much. I appreciate it.

Seconded, Thirded and Fourthed. I never saw the appeal beyond the campiness of the original George Romero works.
In fairness, then, as your intestines are being devoured like gourmet sausages expect to hear 'We told you so'.

The purpose of the ZA in serious works is to intensify conflict and thereby intensify meaning. It's probably a sign of our jaded times, though, that we need that intensification. Love isn't difficult or interesting enough until ravening ghouls dot the landscape. Sad to say, it also legitimizes mass murder. If we ran around the landscape killing dozens of human beings, we'd be branded monsters. Turn those human beings into shadows of themselves and the thrill of killing is still there, but the guilt largely disappears. That's one reason zombies are typically not allowed to retain even traces of their humanity, as that would interfere with the pleasures of killing them.
   11059. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4313472)
Zombies are just too easy to kill, impair, outrun, and avoid infection from for them to ever overtake humanity or seriously impair us.

Depends on the zombie type. A Walking Dead zombie could never take over. The infection takes to long to zombify, and they are too weak and easy to kill. A 28 Days Later zombie (fast infection, fast and strong zombie) could easily take over, with only a natural border being able to stop it.
   11060. spike Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4313475)
Tommy Hanson for Jordan Waldon. Atlanta has a really good bullpen.
   11061. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4313483)
post 11050:

where do all the hobby farmers and organic farmers fall? because they are farmers but i doubt most of them would adapt to a hostile environment very quickly

i also think you overstate my peer group's abilities in general
Maybe so, but having only acquired many of a homesteaders skills (somewhat different, I grant you, than a farmer's skill set) over a very long time, I'm in awe of folks who can do it all. I just figure anyone who can figure out just about anything is way ahead of the game, once the ghouls show up en masse. My immediate neighbor is a great old soul of 82 with serious COPD issues, but he can still shoot, garden, carpenter, find edible plants anywhere, and fix anything. He's the kind of generalist (grew up on a farm, worked as plumber in Brooklyn for a decade and a half, turned farmer again then turned b&b owner) I'd draft high if the world ended. The summer he turned 80 he was a little bored so he sketched up an addition that doubled the size of his b&b, acted as his own general contractor, did all the plumbing, and ran the bulldozer as needed. A union man back when, and I've never met anyone more generous.

I'll guess hobby farmers are people who came to the practice comparatively late in life and don't have nearly the broad skill set those born and raised on farms possess. A lot of hobby farmers 'farm out' (sorry) mechanical and electrical and construction work, key Not sure about organic farmers--some of those folks grew up on farms and found the organic niche as a way to make a living. Others came to it late after tiring of more conventional lives. Not sure where they fit or how they'd do.
   11062. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4313499)
as someone who has seen people at less than their best i think it's important to remember the skills that can get you through the transition from civilized world to rustic world are not the ones that will help you prosper in rustic world

that's why its a group thing. you need folks who can be pretty hard (some might say ruthless) to get you through the immediate chaos and then you get into some kind of equilibrium state. who knows how long the transition state lasts.

   11063. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4313502)
My immediate neighbor is a great old soul of 82 with serious COPD issues, but he can still shoot, garden, carpenter, find edible plants anywhere, and fix anything. He's the kind of generalist (grew up on a farm, worked as plumber in Brooklyn for a decade and a half, turned farmer again then turned b&b owner) I'd draft high if the world ended.


Unhealthy octogenarians are your new market efficiency? Sorry Zombieball-guy, that #### won't work in the apocalypse.
   11064. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4313513)
Passing this along, since some on this board may wish to evaluate the merits of the sentence "Squeezing 15 tracks into its half-hour run-time, Light Up Gold is made up of college-rock nuggets that, at their best, recall early Pavement singles, just with a Wowee Zowee-era production."
Scroll down to Parquet Courts
   11065. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4313514)
phew. only 79. yr can't off me
   11066. formerly dp Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4313515)
The number of better ways to spend my time is astronomical.

I don't play video games.
I get that. As a huge fan of the postnuclear genre, I enjoyed the storytelling and worldbuilding in the first Wasteland (1988, so before it got done to death) as much as any of the fiction I read.
   11067. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4313518)
that's why its a group thing.


QFT. Very, very few people would survive completely on their own, or as a couple. Like Harvey, I have a well, lots of stored food and a large garden, wood heat, and enough deer in my back yard to to keep me in meat for a long time. I went out to get some firewood the other night and one of them blew (anyone who knows about deer will know what I mean) and scared the hell out of me. There were two does, only about 20' away from me, and I whistled a bit to get their attention. I think I could have probably got them to eat out of my hand, but it was too cold and I got tired of it.
   11068. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4313528)
cold

you don't want to hunt nearby if you can avoid it because once you do animals sense the smell of death and avoid you. you need to range away as much as possible so that hunting nearby is your fallback in a pinch. like if you get hurt and can move some but not much and need to rely on a fresh kill to survive
   11069. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4313540)
that's why its a group thing.


Thirded. Groups are critical as is being able to function together. In some ways attitude matters as much as skills.
   11070. Ron J2 Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4313555)
   11071. Steve Treder Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:44 PM (#4313568)
A handful of outlets have reported that Team Romney’s internal polling showed North Carolina, Florida, and Virginia moving safely into his column and that it put him ahead in a few other swing states. When combined with Ohio, where the internal polling had him close, Romney was on track to secure all the electoral votes he needed to win the White House. The confidence in these numbers was such that Romney even passed on writing a concession speech, at least before the crotchety assignment-desk known as “reality” finally weighed in.


The delicious irony in this is that the one thing Romney was supposed to bring to the party was hard-headed competence, "business sense," the organizational and technical skill and knowledge to do things well and correctly. And instead he and his team utterly bungled one of their most crucial tasks, that of collecting and understanding intelligence regarding the electorate and what to expect. Wow.
   11072. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 30, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4313576)
as someone who has seen people at less than their best i think it's important to remember the skills that can get you through the transition from civilized world to rustic world are not the ones that will help you prosper in rustic world

that's why its a group thing. you need folks who can be pretty hard (some might say ruthless) to get you through the immediate chaos and then you get into some kind of equilibrium state. who knows how long the transition state lasts.
True, this. The people who are best in crises (instinctive decision makers, quick to act, combative, willing to fight) can tear groups apart when it comes to patiently grinding through the day to day stuff of living.

Speaking of vote fraud, in a development that will surprise exactly no one,

In an exclusive report by the Palm Beach Post, several prominent Florida Republicans are now admitting that these election law changes were geared toward suppressing minority and Democratic votes.

Former governor Charlie Crist (R-FL) and former GOP chairman Jim Greer (R-FL), as well as several current GOP members, told the Post that Republican consultants pushed the new measures as a way to suppress Democratic voters. Crist expanded early voting hours in 2008 despite party pressure, but Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) targeted early voting almost immediately when he took office in 2011. Scott’s administration claimed the new laws were meant to curb in-person voter fraud, despite the fact that an individual in Florida is more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud.
Current party members and consultants confirmed the motive was not to stop voter fraud but to make it harder for Democrats and minorities to vote:

Wayne Bertsch, who handles local and legislative races for Republicans, said he knew targeting Democrats was the goal. “In the races I was involved in in 2008, when we started seeing the increase of turnout and the turnout operations that the Democrats were doing in early voting, it certainly sent a chill down our spines. And in 2008, it didn’t have the impact that we were afraid of. It got close, but it wasn’t the impact that they had this election cycle,” Bertsch said, referring to the fact that Democrats picked up seven legislative seats in Florida in 2012 despite the early voting limitations.

Another GOP consultant, who did not want to be named, also confirmed that influential consultants to the Republican Party of Florida were intent on beating back Democratic turnout in early voting after 2008.

[...]A GOP consultant who asked to remain anonymous out of fear of retribution said black voters were a concern. “I know that the cutting out of the Sunday before Election Day was one of their targets only because that’s a big day when the black churches organize themselves,” he said.

Though the state ultimately went to President Obama, the Republican effort to suppress votes was largely successful. A post-election report found that new voting restrictions led to a huge increase in provisional ballots, which are cast when there is some question of the voter’s eligibility.

While crying voter fraud, the Florida GOP had to confront its own scandal when a voter registration firm they hired turned in hundreds of fraudulent registration forms in several Florida counties. The GOP hastily cut ties with the group when the state opened a criminal investigation into their operations.


For the zombie inclined, DayZ could be a really interesting game centered on the premise. The mod based on Arma2 was pretty good.
The problem with DayZ is nothing seems to happen. In every walkthrough I've seen on youtube some guy runs and runs and runs through an empty landscape, then an empty industrial area, then an empty landscape, then empty RR tracks,... It just doesn't look very exciting.

In the great Zombie apocalypse draft, don't forget water and probably fishing. I have no idea where the group in Walking Dead are getting water from, but I think they'd have died of thirst by now.
They've gotcha covered. T-Dog, bless his departed soul, mentioned a nearby stream that could easily be brought in through a culvert under the fence to provide water for crops.

edit: @11071--that really struck me too, Steve. The one thing you figure he should have been able to ace, he completely whiffed on.

I thought all the apparent confidence in October was the usual campaign bluster. It never occurred to me that Joe was polling more accurately than the campaign.
   11073. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4313580)
I'm thinking cardio/endurance training is the way to go here. Combined with enough strength training to carry heavy amounts of gear a very long way. Doing a lot of rough hiking and/or rock climbing would probably be helpful.


Parkour.
   11074. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:08 PM (#4313581)
You know nothing.


Dies.
   11075. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4313586)
the Romney internal polls

Someone should tie Joe to a chair and force him to read and re-read that article, until it finally sinks in on him that his entire set of assumptions about the 2012 electorate were based largely on wishful thinking. But then in that respect he wasn't any more delusional than his candidate.
   11076. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4313587)
ZombApoc is pretty much your paleodiet/Crossfit workout dream.


Paleo diet is crap. Most of a caveman's scavenged protein came from insects or small animals like mice and frogs. If you're eating nice big steaks, you're putting totally different amino acids into your body than the guy you're supposedly trying to emulate.
   11077. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4313590)
All fad diets are crap


Fixed that for you.
   11078. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4313592)
basic item for minor consideration is that someone who can attest to the taste difference is that grass fed grazing animals taste very different from corn fed. 50 years ago people shot deer because they wanted a trophy or to eat. and if to eat you were considered dirt poor because venison tasted like sh8t. marsh grass and acorns ain't much for eating.

remember the scene from crocodile dundee where he pulls out the canned goods versus eating off the land? that is very true.
   11079. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4313597)
Most of a caveman's scavenged protein came from insects or small animals like mice and frogs. If you're eating nice big steaks, you're putting totally different amino acids into your body than the guy you're supposedly trying to emulate.


I do love when haters gonna hate. I mean, you're nitpicking the marketing term of a protein heavy diet. It's beyond silly.
   11080. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4313598)
The model uses some assumptions that I don't really agree with (I believe).


Well, that's the whole thing. There are lots of different kinds of fictional zombies. The assumptions that you make in defining exactly what a zombie is and how it works will make a zombie apocalypse seem more or less realistic. Are they dead bodies animated by voodoo magic, or animated corpses under the control of alien parasites, or the righteous dead returned to seek vengeance on those who wronged them, or powered by an unknown chemical interaction from radiation and industrial waste, or what? Do corpses rise from the dead passively in any context, or is active intervention of some sort needed? Does animation require the application of some substance or the performance of some kind of ritual? Are they fast or slow? Can you kill them by damaging the brain, or do you need to destroy the entire corpse? Can they think? Consciously pursue goals? Communicate? Use tools? Are they immediately evident as zombies, or can they pose as the living until they start to rot? Will they suffer from attrition as time passes? Is it only people that can come back from the dead, or will animal corpses do so as well?
   11081. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4313606)
I mean, you're nitpicking the marketing term of a protein heavy diet. It's beyond silly.


No, I'm nitpicking the philosophical underpinnings of that particular protein-heavy diet. If you think people should eat that particular balance of nutrients, fine - use science to show why. But cavemen don't have anything to do with it. That's just a load of soft-headed marketing horseshit, designed to separate dippy consumers from their money.
   11082. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4313641)
You know what fad diet works well?


BRAAAAAAIIIIIIINNNNNNNS
   11083. Mefisto Posted: November 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4313643)
Most of a caveman's scavenged protein came from insects or small animals like mice and frogs.


Cite? The fact is, we have no idea what quantity of protein sources were used by paleolithic hunter/gatherers. We can measure animal bones at a site, but we can't determine which ones were eaten by humans.

No, I'm nitpicking the philosophical underpinnings of that particular protein-heavy diet.


Define "protein heavy".

   11084. zenbitz Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:07 PM (#4313656)
Nate Silver on tech, silcon valley With a side of technological edge leading to incompetent internal GOP polling and "ORCA"
   11085. zenbitz Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4313660)
S0 = ???? SZ ???? S
Z0 
SZ ???? SZ
R0 
SZ ???? R


I haven't looked at the site but knowing a little about modeling, if you set the ???? low enough I am sure you can get this model to spit out "Zombie Apocalypse is no problem" rather trivially.

Since we have no real data on zombies to fit.
   11086. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4313664)
Cite? The fact is, we have no idea what quantity of protein sources were used by paleolithic hunter/gatherers. We can measure animal bones at a site, but we can't determine which ones were eaten by humans.


We actually can, to an extent, because of cut-marks on the bones of butchered animals. My understanding is that this is something of an emerging field of research, even though people have been working on it for 60 or 70 years. Recent work has, for example, used butchering marks to make some inferences about the social order of early Homo sapiens groups, and also about their (our!) place in the food chain.
   11087. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4313666)
With a side of technological edge leading to incompetent internal GOP polling and "ORCA"


This is one of those things I expect to be transient -- while most tech workers are liberal NorCal/Washington types, it's not as though there isn't an enormous contingent of right-libertarian techies out there. I expect the 2016 candidate, whoever he is, to have a lot of people on his staff. Liberals should feel good about tapping into the data revolution more effectively the last two cycles, but don't expect it to continue.

It's the demographic bomb that's a problem. Running wealthy Cubans isn't going to solve it, either.
   11088. tshipman Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4313668)
the Romney internal polls


This is really crazy. In Romney's internal polls, he was losing the election. His internal polls, which were incredibly unrealistic and way off in Iowa, Colorado and Minnesota, still had him losing 267-271. Remarkably, when his own polls showed him losing, he still thought he was going to win so much that he did not prepare a concession speech.

Wow.
   11089. Steve Treder Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4313677)
Nate Silver on tech, silcon valley With a side of technological edge leading to incompetent internal GOP polling and "ORCA"

Democrats’ strength in the region is hard to separate out from the growth of its core industry — information technology – and the advantage that having access to the most talented individuals working in the field could provide to Democratic campaigns.

Companies like Google and Apple do not have their own precincts on Election Day. However, it is possible to make some inferences about just how overwhelmingly Democratic are the employees at these companies, based on fund-raising data. (The Federal Election Commission requires that donors to presidential campaigns disclose their employer when they make a campaign contribution.)

Among employees who work for Google, Mr. Obama received about $720,000 in itemized contributions this year, compared with only $25,000 for Mr. Romney. That means that Mr. Obama collected almost 97 percent of the money between the two major candidates.

Apple employees gave 91 percent of their dollars to Mr. Obama. At eBay, Mr. Obama received 89 percent of the money from employees.

Over all, among the 10 American-based information technology companies on Fortune’s list of “most admired companies,” Mr. Obama raised 83 percent of the funds between the two major party candidates.


And tying it back into the article I posted earlier, a very high proportion of these young, ultra-tech-savvy, and affluent Democrats are Asian-American.

Which just leads me to think, (a) man I love my homies, and (b) could there possibly be a more vivid illustration of the structural disadvantages the GOP has systematically constructed for itself?
   11090. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:23 PM (#4313679)
This is really crazy. In Romney's internal polls, he was losing the election. His internal polls, which were incredibly unrealistic and way off in Iowa, Colorado and Minnesota, still had him losing 267-271. Remarkably, when his own polls showed him losing, he still thought he was going to win so much that he did not prepare a concession speech.

Wow.


Mittmentum, baby!
   11091. Steve Treder Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4313684)
while most tech workers are liberal NorCal/Washington types, it's not as though there isn't an enormous contingent of right-libertarian techies out there.

Speaking from out here, the fact is that there is not an enormous contingent of right-libertarian techies, at least not as measurable by any polling or electoral data. From Silver's article:

Mr. Obama won the nine counties of the Bay Area by margins ranging from 25 percentage points (in Napa County) to 71 percentage points (in the city and county of San Francisco). In Santa Clara County, home to much of the Silicon Valley, the margin was 42 percentage points.

Over all, Mr. Obama won the election by 49 percentage points in the Bay Area, more than double his 22-point margin throughout California.

Although San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley have long been liberal havens, the rest of the region has not always been so. In 1980, Ronald Reagan won the Bay Area vote over all, along with seven of its nine counties. George H.W. Bush won Napa County in 1988.

Republicans have lost every county in the region by a double-digit margin since then. But Democratic margins have become more and more emphatic. Mr. Obama’s 49-point margin throughout the Bay Area this year was considerably larger than Al Gore’s 34-point win in 2000, for example, or Bill Clinton’s 31-point win in 1992.


Not exactly indicative of an enormous contingent of right-libertarian techies.
   11092. spike Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4313685)
his entire set of assumptions about the 2012 electorate were based largely on wishful thinking

Speaking of - hilarious post-election interview with Dean Chambers
The pic alone is worth the click.
   11093. Mefisto Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4313686)
We actually can, to an extent, because of cut-marks on the bones of butchered animals.


Agreed. What we can't do is measure the percentage of protein from those sources compared to others like grubs. We can't measure protein as a % of daily calories either.
   11094. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4313689)
There will never be a zombie apocalypse and not because it is a fantasy concept but because a zombie outbreak would never get large enough to cause human society to collapse and the world's population diminished by any great degree.


You might be right, but I thought this slideshow is fairly realistic portrayal of society breaking down after a zombie outbreak.
   11095. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4313697)
Most of a caveman's scavenged protein came from insects or small animals like mice and frogs.

Cite? The fact is, we have no idea what quantity of protein sources were used by paleolithic hunter/gatherers.


Some good background on paleolithic and neolithic entomophagy here.
   11096. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4313704)
Not exactly indicative of an enormous contingent of right-libertarian techies.


(1) True enough. I guess what I meant is that there are enough right-libertarian techies that they should be able to get good people to run their operations.

(2) I was, weirdly, just g-chatting with a friend of mine who works for Google, and I asked him about this question. His input was this: though the libertarian streak is powerful in his experience of the tech community*, there's also a very strong pro-science bias among techies, and Republicans are going to have to come to Jesus (pun fully intended) on that subject before they start capturing any significant portion of that community, wealthy and libertarian though it may be. He also pointed out that both parties are pretty good at pissing off (small-L) libertarians right now: Republicans socially, Democrats economically. He said his sense (whether or not this is widely true) is that the social stuff is much more difficult to swallow at the moment.

*He's from Oregon and lives in Washington, though, so that might exaggerate this contingent in his mind.

(3) As a left-libertarian, this squares with my feeling. I usually vote Democratic because I find Republican social stances odious and the economic messages of the parties, despite all the caviling that goes on over them, not radically different. Neither is particularly interested in actually restraining the size of government -- they just want to waste the money in different places. If Republicans could moderate on science & social issues, they might find an audience in people like me. They would have 40 years ago, for sure. I probably would have voted for Nixon at least once, had I been born in 1950 instead of 1980.
   11097. Steve Treder Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4313712)
the economic messages of the parties, despite all the caviling that goes on over them, not radically different. Neither is particularly interested in actually restraining the size of government -- they just want to waste the money in different places. If Republicans could moderate on science & social issues, they might find an audience in people like me.

If the economic messages of the parties are not radically different, and they just want to waste the money in different places, why should the hypothetical science-&-social-moderated-Republicans find an audience in people like you?
   11098. BrianBrianson Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4313723)
They would have 40 years ago, for sure. I probably would have voted for Nixon at least once, had I been born in 1950 instead of 1980.


I'm a straight white guy with a Ph.D in a hard science; Nixon is also the last Republican presidential candidate I would've voted for. Republicans these days love Reagan, but he's where I say \"#### that ####."
   11099. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4313725)
If you think people should eat that particular balance of nutrients, fine - use science to show why. But cavemen don't have anything to do with it. That's just a load of soft-headed marketing horseshit, designed to separate dippy consumers from their money.


Have you ever met a human being?
   11100. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 30, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4313728)
why should the hypothetical science-&-social-moderated-Republicans find an audience in people like you?


Taxes.

I'm a straight white guy with a Ph.D in a hard science; Nixon is also the last Republican presidential candidate I would've voted for. Republicans these days love Reagan, but he's where I say \"#### that ####."


Yep. I'm working on an MFA instead of a PhD, but that's pretty much where I land.
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