I think that regardless of political persuasion, we should all be able to agree on Nancy Grace.

Honest question: in this instance, you would still have to pay taxes, assuming you physically remained in the US, right?

For me, those people are Nancy Grace, Wendy Murphy, and John Feinstein.

In 2004, when the popular vote diverged from the exit polls, some Democratic partisans cited that, not as an indication that the exit polls were inaccurate, but as evidence that the actual vote was fraudulent. I'd expect to see that a bit stronger this time, but ultimately it would be debunked pretty quickly.

You can't renounce your citizenship while within the United States, only abroad. At some consulates, there's over a two-year waiting list to do so.

(Note: I'm not considering it; I've just seen news reports that it's increasingly popular to renounce U.S. citizenship, mostly for tax reasons.)

I'd pay higher taxes for ten years if it would send Nancy Grace in a rocket ship into the sun. If you could somehow rig it up so a HAL-like supercomputer cut off her cord during a space walk, leaving her to float aimlessly and eternally through the depths of space, I'd pay 20.

I know that recent law changes now require a fee (I think it's about $400) -- but all you have to do is go to a US embassy or consulate, sign a few forms, and voila... Unlike many countries, the US will even let you renounce without an alternate citizenship - in effect, becoming stateless.

As far the popularity - my recollection from a news article when the Facebook dude renounced his is that the number is about ~1700 annually... up from just a few hundred years back.

(though, I think that's only if you're going "stateless" -- if you've got another citizenship and have worked out the visa issues, I think you can do it in the US... but I imagine it's awfully hard to get a foreign travel visa TO the US while you're still a US citizen).

In 2004 the exit polls did not diverge significantly from the popular vote, what happened was that Drudge released raw preliminary exit polling data that seemed to indicate that Kerry was winning- that was actually corrected even before the results were final that night- but all you hear for the next 8 years is that the exit pols were wrong in 2004.


Exit polls have to be adjusted in different ways that regular polls - let's say that you poll in 10 different locations-
each location has 1000 voters (10,000 total)- but at some locations you manage to interview 50 people after voting- and another only 25- you have to adjust for that, at one location you may have a 60/40 gender split- you have to adjust for that-
let's say you interview 2% of the voters in one county and 3% of the voters in another- you have to adjust for that- Drudge began releasing polling data before any of those adjustments were made

If it means a legitimate, registered voter actually been refused the right to cast a ballot, it hasn't occurred in a long time and won't occur today.

Right, someone who can't afford to wait 7 hours in line doesn't deserve to vote, and their leaving doesn't mean that they were denied the chance to vote! Lazy slacker poors.

You're choosing someone who is going to preside over a $4 trillion budget, who's going to be controlling 20% of the nation's wealth and throw 3 million people in jail, and you think that investing a few hours in this process is somehow too much to ask? Depending on who they vote for, it's going to cost people a lot more than a few hours' worth of their wages.

(though, I think that's only if you're going "stateless" -- if you've got another citizenship and have worked out the visa issues, I think you can do it in the US... but I imagine it's awfully hard to get a foreign travel visa TO the US while you're still a US citizen).


I don't believe it would be possible without committing a felony. The person would have to omit their U.S. citizenship in their visa application.

Why would a country club have any less rights than any other business? It gets a judgment. It gives that judgment to the sheriff. He tells you either to pay up or he starts hauling furniture away.

We all know a truly libertarian community isn't happening

To me, that means that any new government intervention into the private sector should have a very high bar to pass before being enacted (and likewise, any existing government intervention needs to have a compelling reason for its continued existence).

The definition you use - they take taxes from me at gunpoint - applies to every modern government in the world as far as I know, so really your complaint is with all modern government and not really liberalism.

A judgment for what? You didn't sign up for membership. If it just gratuitously declared you to be a member, there's no contract and no cause of action.

Which election was effed up by the exit polling?

could all be made moot if we'd just put a system in place to make all election officials non-partisan/non-elected/etc

Which election was effed up by the exit polling? Was it in 2000 that liberals got moist over the exit polling that showed the Goreacle to be freely in the lead? Or was it 2004 with the windsurfing Kerry.

My dad, who had just obtained his American citizenship in 1978, became a reliable supporter of the Republican Party, both with his ballot and occasionally with his checkbook. He wasn’t alone. Most immigrant Muslims to America – once they obtained their citizenship – joined the Reagan Revolution.

Voluntary arrangement.

538 accounted for an amazing 20% of NYT web traffic yesterday

Serious question: Who is Nancy Grace, and what's her significance?

A Philadelphia court judge ordered poll workers to cover up a mural of President Barack Obama that was inside a polling place at a local school.

EDIT: Wait, was Murphy a prosecutor in the Duke lacrosse case? Still don't recall Feinstein.

See, here's the ultimate problem with the social contract thing. While one can argue we implicitly agree to pay taxes, get drafted to fight in wars, etc, I can in no way accept that we implicitly agreed to not send Nancy Grace in a rocket ship into the sun.

Why have we not heard a peep from our fellow vote-suppression liberals about how many people in the Hurricane Sandy states will have a tough time voting today if they are able to vote at all? Is it because these people are in solidly blue states? If they were in swing states, would our fellow liberals be whining that so many people realistically may not be able to vote today?

61% of RVs in Cuyahoga County (the big Cleveland-centric OH Dem stronghold) voted in 2008....they passed 50% at 2:30 PM today and the county Dem chair has hopes of hitting 70% by the time polls close.

She was absolutely insufferable with her coverage of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations

Philadelphia court judge ordered poll workers to cover up a mural of President Barack Obama that was inside a polling place at a local school.


I agree with this in principle, but shouldn't someone have noticed this before hand?

Cuyahoga County has purged over 100,000 RVs from the voter rolls since 2011, so percentage comparisons don't tell us much.

I didn't agree to the things the American polity has obligated me to do.

Needless to say, Muslim support for Republicans has not remained at high levels.

NANCY GRACE: ... But first, breaking news tonight. Two children missing from the home where their grandparents and uncle have been discovered dead. An Amber Alert in effect tonight for 18-month-old Brian Cervantes, his 3- year-old little sister, Jennifer.

Tonight, in Philadelphia, defense attorney Joe Lawless with us; in San Francisco, defense attorney Daniel Horowitz; here in New York, psychotherapist Dr. Robi Ludwig; and in Phoenix, Arizona, reporter Gold Star.

Let`s go straight to the reporter. Gold Star, explain to me how these kids went missing, the family wiped out.

GOLD STAR: It began late last night, about 10:30, two 911 hang-up calls. Maricopa County sheriff deputies arrive on the scene. They look inside. There`s three dead bodies, one on the couch, two on the living room floor.

Unfortunately, they have no idea what`s gone on. They just have victims. About 1:30 in the morning, the mother comes home. That would be the daughter of the two older victims and the brother of the...

GRACE: Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Let me get this family tree straight.

GOLD STAR: Sorry.

She was absolutely insufferable with her coverage of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations, and I gather that she really became popular started during the Casey Anthony trial.

Wow, you actually *spoke* to her? That's some serious cojones right there.

I didn't agree to the things the American polity has obligated me to do. You did agree to enter into an agreement with the bank and pay them money.

I'd rather Morty become president and Carter have lived to be 200.

I didn't agree to the things the American polity has obligated me to do.

See, here's the ultimate problem with the social contract thing. While one can argue we implicitly agree to pay taxes, get drafted to fight in wars, etc, I can in no way accept that we implicitly agreed to not send Nancy Grace in a rocket ship into the sun.

What state does she live in? Do they have a ballot initiative process?

Although we have no idea how many of those RVs were "LVs" in the past election...

The best was Bob Shrum.

If you look at history through a biblical world view, the last step before a nation is completely destroyed is they drive the righteous from among them. If this isn’t a sign of a group of people that will drive the righteous from among them, and that’s the last step before God’s wrath comes, I fear for our country and it is - it cannot be overstated, it cannot be called paranoid ... If you are a God?fearing person, hear me. Last call, America. Last call. Because the righteous will be driven from among them.

They are nasty, divisive and, I'm sorry, but there is no way to describe that quote from Valerie Jarrett other than evil. Warning: Saul Alinsky is just the beginning of these people.

But I believe in the American people. I believe that we are not too far gone. I believe that people can watch and see the difference. They can feel the difference. When you watch Barack Obama, you can just see he is angry. When you watch Mitt Romney, you can see he is not. We are not an angry nation. We don’t listen to demagogues like that. It doesn’t work. No matter how much power he has amassed, no matter how many friends in the media he has, Americans know. And if they reject it this time, if they’re so dead inside - that’s a possibility - if they’re so dead inside that they can no longer see the difference between good and evil, we have to be destroyed because we will be a remarkable evil on this planet

IOW, I think the election is getting to you all and you're all going a little overboard. It is absolutely not too early to have a drink.

The best was Bob Shrum. For those not aware of the story, based on the exit polling, Shrum told John Kerry "Let me be the first to call you Mr. President."

My problem with the "contract" argument is that it can be - and has been - used to justify just about anything a government wishes to do.

When you watch Barack Obama, you can just see he is angry.

But angry? Where on Earth is that coming from?

The whole thing is dumb, but really? Obama is many things, but angry? Aloof (sure). Introverted (maybe). Ivory tower, elitist socialist from Kenya (Not, but whatever). Muslim (No but hey go for it). But angry? Where on Earth is that coming from? Can't you just make #### up that is just a bit more in tune with reality?

But I believe in the American people. I believe that we are not too far gone. I believe that people can watch and see the difference. They can feel the difference. When you watch Barack Obama, you can just see he is angry. When you watch Mitt Romney, you can see he is not.