Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

OTP November 2012 - Moneypoll! The Pundits vs. The Election-Data Nerds

Come next Tuesday night, we’ll get a resolution (let’s hope) to a great ongoing battle of 2012: not just the Presidential election between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, but the one between the pundits trying to analyze that race with their guts and a new breed of statistics gurus trying to forecast it with data.

In Election 2012 as seen by the pundits–political journalists on the trail, commentators in cable-news studios–the campaign is a jump ball. There’s a slight lead for Mitt Romney in national polls and slight leads for Barack Obama in swing-state polls, and no good way of predicting next Tuesday’s outcome beyond flipping a coin. ...

Bonus link: Esquire - The Enemies of Nate Silver

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:42 PM | 11298 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mr president, off-topic, politics, sabermetrics, usa

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 52 of 114 pages ‹ First  < 50 51 52 53 54 >  Last ›
   5101. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4296986)
Random musing: Setting aside that he didn't have a prayer in the primaries given how he positioned himself, could Huntsman have won the general election (assuming he took the posture that he took in the primaries)?
   5102. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4296987)
Has anyone checked on Snapper?


I heard he was hospitalized with severe rosary burns suffered during his participation in RomneyPrayer.
   5103. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4296988)
We had a Soil and Water candidate who has never, in three campaigns for the seat, run any sort of campaign. In one race, the article describing the candidates simply said that his phone didn't accept outside phone calls and he had not answered several letters.

His name is Monk.

He got 15,000 votes (out of about 80,000) last night.


19 percent! Proof of concept for my plan!
   5104. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4296989)
All of which means, when it comes to Karl Rove, the Democrats had best play by Chicago rules. “That means when he is dead, you put a stake through his heart,” explained one Democratic operative. “Then you put a bullet through his head. You pour gasoline on him and set him on fire. Then you kill him again. Because he’ll be back.”


"Bloodthirsty liberals demand death, mutilation of prominent conservatives."
   5105. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4296990)
Republican stake heart! Dick Morris (Mr. always wrong) says you are doomed:


Well, this means the GOP will survive.
   5106. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4296991)
In 2000, he lost a Democratic primary race for Illinois's 1st congressional district in the United States House of Representatives to four-term incumbent Bobby Rush by a margin of two to one.


That's ex-Black Panther Bobby Rush to you. No doubt that guy opening doors for little old ladies in Philadelphia was doing the same in Chicago in 2000, making Rush's victory inevitable.

Now there are a few Democratic campaign signs around that say "OBAMA / BIDEN" in big letters at the top and "Bobby Rush" in little letters down below. Funny how times change.
   5107. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4296992)
From #5100
Chambers' official Electoral College prediction ended up being much more tame than other conservatives, including Dick Morris. Chambers predicted Romney would win 275 electoral votes to Obama's 263.

That's full of bullshit.
On November 1st, he had Romney winning 359 electoral votes.
On November 4th, he adjusted it to Romney winning 311 electoral votes.
On November 6th, he adjusted again to get to 275.

The more he realized he was wrong, the more he tried to cover his ass.
There is no way Romney's support in the last 5 days would have dropped 84 electoral votes.


   5108. McCoy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4296993)
So what does Obama after 4 more years? I asked last night and didn't get a response but I kind of doubt Obama is going to go out and stump for Dems in 8 years. Is he just going to collect touring fees for the rest of his life or does something like a Supreme Court seat interest him?
   5109. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4296994)
Not at all. It is worth remembering Rove has been written off before. In 2007, he was forced out of the White House in disgrace


Karl Rove has obviously landed on his feet with his Fox News analysis gig, but as a political consultant, was it wrong to write Rove off in 2007? The Republicans have lost the Presidency twice in a row and held onto the Senate throughout that. How much credit does Rove deserve for 2010?
   5110. bunyon Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4296996)
19 percent! Proof of concept for my plan!

Hook up a phone and you may break 30 percent.


So what does Obama after 4 more years?

NBA commissioner?
   5111. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4296997)
I asked last night and didn't get a response but I kind of doubt Obama is going to go out and stump for Dems in 8 years.


Why not? Clinton did it.
   5112. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4296998)
So what does Obama after 4 more years? I asked last night and didn't get a response but I kind of doubt Obama is going to go out and stump for Dems in 8 years. Is he just going to collect touring fees for the rest of his life or does something like a Supreme Court seat interest him?

Professor Obama will edit and publish his collected legal scholarship - it's gonna be fascinating.
   5113. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4296999)
So what does Obama after 4 more years?


2016 - assuming his approval ratings don't go all "W in 2nd term", he stumps for Hillary (if she runs). That will be his "thanks" for Big Dog Bill's performance at this year's convention. If she doesn't run then he takes a closer look at the candidates and decides then.
2017-2020 - book writing, philanthropy work with the Big Dog, W, Biden and Bill Gates, speaking engagements
2021 and future - if a Supreme Court seat opens up and it's a Dem pres, then he gets a nomination. Otherwise, more public speaking and maybe being a professor.
   5114. McCoy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4297000)
I never really understood the magic of Karl Rove anyway. His candidate was the son of a former President and he lost the popular vote and won the election because voters in Florida are morons. His guy then lets a bunch of Muslims crash a plane into a few buildings, we go to war, and he gets reelected while facing a pretty weak Dem candidate. Where is the "wow" in that? It looks pretty mediocre to me.
   5115. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4297001)
does something like a Supreme Court seat interest him


This would be my guess. As others have noted, Obama has always seemed lukewarm about building the Dem brand and generating coattails and what-not. I can't see him playing Bill Clinton's current role. But he's young enough that he almost has to do something more than write another book and give a couple of speeches a year. Then again, maybe he's looking forward to an early retirement; his current job is a tough one.
   5116. McCoy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4297003)
Why not? Clinton did it.

Obama ain't no Clinton.
   5117. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4297004)
But the Rs really underestimate Obama.


They really do. Both from a generic perspective - i.e. he's not actually "the black Jimmy Carter" and never has been; he's absolutely ruthless against his political opponents when he has the leverage to be so. But more importantly from an electoral perspective. Basically, Obama is the Billy Beane of politicians. There's a reason Nate was so well aligned with Obama in 2008 that he got access to their internal polling. The GOP is still playing a game of national voter turnout; Obama kills them by simply playing the electoral map.

GOP: "We're going to go win 80% of white men and take the Oval Office back."

Obama: "You can have all of them, except these few who worked in the auto industry in Ohio. I'm going to win them, Ohio, and thus the entire ####### election. Dumbasses."
   5118. McCoy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4297007)

2016 - assuming his approval ratings don't go all "W in 2nd term", he stumps for Hillary (if she runs). If she doesn't then he takes a closer look at the candidates and decides then.


How often do sitting Presidents "stump" for Presidential candidates? I don't recall a lot of them doing that.
   5119. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4297008)
So what does Obama after 4 more years?


Hip hop comedy tour with Chris Rock and Jay Z.
   5120. Steve Treder Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4297010)
Why not? Clinton did it.

Yeah, but Clinton loves stumping, and Obama clearly doesn't. He'll do some of it, but not with Clinton's relish.

I could see Obama doing something along the lines of what Clinton and Jimmy Carter have done on the international stage, leading this NGO enterprise and the other, and being sort of an ambassador-at-large. Obama (Mr. Nobel Peace Prize winner) remains extremely popular internationally.
   5121. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4297011)
Basically, Obama is the Billy Beane of politicians. There's a reason Nate was so well aligned with Obama in 2008 that he got access to their internal polling.


We talk about Nate Silver's star rising as a result of this election, but whoever they pin the voter turnout/tracking/targetting software to in the Obama campaign probably gets paid BIG bucks in the 2016 primaries/election by whoever wants him/her/them.

   5122. McCoy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4297012)
But the Rs really underestimate Obama.

The GOP thinks every single Dem Presidential candidate is a Jimmy Carter in disguise and when one of them surprises them and wins the election they don't change their opinion of him and thus get surprised in the next election as well. If you have no respect for the oppoistion you will constantly get your assed handed to you by competent foes.
   5123. bunyon Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4297014)
How often do sitting Presidents "stump" for Presidential candidates? I don't recall a lot of them doing that.

Those that could:


W Bush: 22% approval - he would hurt more than help

Clinton: coming off impeachment, general scuzziness

Reagan: suffering from Alzheimer's, kept out of the light as much as possible

Johnson: see W

Eisenhower: exhausted and unwell

Truman: see W

Coolidge: my recollection is he campaigned pretty hard for Hoover but I have no real idea.


Basically, as someone posted last night, second terms don't usually go so great. If Obama leaves office with a 40% approval and avoiding impeachment, we should consider it a grand success.
   5124. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4297015)
   5125. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4297016)
How often do sitting Presidents "stump" for Presidential candidates? I don't recall a lot of them doing that.


Hmm. Good point. Maybe he does enough by mentioning her as a "good choice" a few times, and then really sells it at the convention.

BTW, that "red state/blue state/united states" call back last night to his 2004 keynote speech was awesome. An amazing finish to the night.
   5126. bunyon Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4297017)
Also, given my post in 5123, I can well imagine any guy who serves 8 years as president will be ready for a nice quiet life. Obama owns a beautiful home on a beautiful beach and has a beautiful wife (and, if so inclined, his pick of other escorts). Is it such a stretch to imagine he retires to Hawaii, writes a few books, does some guest spots that are more light hearted and just generally takes it easy?
   5127. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4297018)
Yeah, but Clinton loves stumping, and Obama clearly doesn't. He'll do some of it, but not with Clinton's relish.

I could see Obama doing something along the lines of what Clinton and Jimmy Carter have done on the international stage, leading this NGO enterprise and the other, and being sort of an ambassador-at-large. Obama (Mr. Nobel Peace Prize winner) remains extremely popular internationally.


Good points. I can definitely see Obama with a Clinton Global Initative/Carter Center type thing.
   5128. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4297019)
Coolidge: my recollection is he campaigned pretty hard for Hoover but I have no real idea.


Dunno about that. I recall a line Coolidge said, to the effect that all of Hoover's advice to him was bad. Plus, elections were conducted differently back then. Plus-plus, this was keep-cool-with-Coolidge we're talking about; I don't think he did anything "hard."
   5129. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4297020)

Honestly, the only reason a state like GA or CA should even run an election is for state and local officials.


Republicans won California regularly before 1992. Georgia went Democratic in 1976 and 1992. These things flip more often than people think.
   5130. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4297021)
I don't see POTUS -> SC Justice happening. Too radical. What's the highest-ranking politician who ever went on to be a SCJ?

He'll go on as a lecturer, maybe a professor, humanitarian, etc. He could champion a specific cause.

Outgoing President also doesn't pick a favorite to get behind, does he?
   5131. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4297022)
As far as I am concerned Obama can do anythign he darn well pleases and have my gratitude to boot. he is not the perfect candidate or president, but I'll take pretty good and be happy.

Putting him on the Supreme Court would be amusing only to watch people's heads explode - there are no teleprompters there!
   5132. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4297023)
I don't see POTUS -> SC Justice happening. Too radical. What's the highest-ranking politician who ever went on to be a SCJ?

President.
   5133. esseff Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4297024)
Not sure, but I might've voted for him in the Democratic primary in Arkansas back in '92. (I know my gf at the time ran into his daughter campaigning for him.) Even then, he seemed like a figure from the semi-distant past.


His what? Sister, maybe? That is, Jerry Brown has no (known) children.
   5134. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4297025)
What's the highest-ranking politician who ever went on to be a SCJ?


Taft
   5135. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4297026)
2016 - assuming his approval ratings don't go all "W in 2nd term", he stumps for Hillary (if she runs). That will be his "thanks" for Big Dog Bill's performance at this year's convention. If she doesn't run then he takes a closer look at the candidates and decides then.
2017-2020 - book writing, philanthropy work with the Big Dog, W, Biden and Bill Gates, speaking engagements
2021 and future - if a Supreme Court seat opens up and it's a Dem pres, then he gets a nomination.


God, this is like projecting a pitching prospect, of which there is no such thing, but what the hell...

Jimmy Carter is getting old and frail. Barack Obama strikes me very much like someone who would like to model his post-presidency on Carter's post-presidency. Being the leader for post-partisanship in the *world* seems a natural outgrowth of his desire to be the leader for post-partisanship in the US government.

I think the SCOTUS appointment would be very appealing to him as well.

Barring "payback" campaigning for Hillary, I think he takes a four year break from campaigning and doesn't return until Michelle runs for a Senate seat from Illinois in 2020.
   5136. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4297027)
humanitarian, etc. He could champion a specific cause.


Feeding homeless bankers maybe? He loves them.
   5137. Steve Treder Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4297028)
The GOP thinks every single Dem Presidential candidate is a Jimmy Carter in disguise and when one of them surprises them and wins the election they don't change their opinion of him and thus get surprised in the next election as well. If you have no respect for the opposition you will constantly get your ass handed to you by competent foes.

This is just one of the manifestations of their refusal (inability?) to perceive reality as it is, instead of how they wish it to be. And the more they keep doing this, the more their appeal will continue to shrink.
   5138. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4297029)
Michelle runs for a Senate seat from Illinois in 2020.


Oooh! Interesting!
   5139. Steve Treder Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4297030)
The GOP thinks every single Dem Presidential candidate is a Jimmy Carter in disguise and when one of them surprises them and wins the election they don't change their opinion of him and thus get surprised in the next election as well. If you have no respect for the opposition you will constantly get your ass handed to you by competent foes.

This is just one of the manifestations of their refusal (inability?) to perceive reality as it is, instead of how they wish it to be. And the more they keep doing this, the more their appeal will continue to shrink.
   5140. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4297031)
Also, given my post in 5123, I can well imagine any guy who serves 8 years as president will be ready for a nice quiet life. Obama owns a beautiful home on a beautiful beach and has a beautiful wife (and, if so inclined, his pick of other escorts). Is it such a stretch to imagine he retires to Hawaii, writes a few books, does some guest spots that are more light hearted and just generally takes it easy?

That seems logical to me, but it *doesn't* seem logical to me that anyone would even want to be president!
   5141. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:39 PM (#4297032)
Republicans won California regularly before 1992. Georgia went Democratic in 1976 and 1992. These things flip more often than people think.


They aren't trending that way though. Maybe it's just me but this state seems to get redder and redder every year.
   5142. Steve Treder Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4297033)
Is it such a stretch to imagine he retires to Hawaii, writes a few books, does some guest spots that are more light hearted and just generally takes it easy?

I don't think so. GWB is laid back enough to just happily retire. Obama's far more intensely competitive than that.

Becoming the manager/supporter of a Michelle political career, along the lines of Bill/Hillary, isn't beyond the bounds of possibility either.
   5143. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4297034)
I am not sure about what the Romney supporters are going to do after last night because from what I have seen on Facebook they are either going to move out of the country or are in church praying for End of Days.

Edit: Besides the ones that wanted to impeach Obama for the incident in Libya until they realize that meant Biden would be in charge.
   5144. Steve Treder Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4297037)
Maybe it's just me but this state seems to get redder and redder every year.

And California gets bluer and bluer.
   5145. formerly dp Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4297038)
Is it such a stretch to imagine he retires to Hawaii, writes a few books, does some guest spots that are more light hearted and just generally takes it easy?


Yes. You don't to be be president by having modest ambitions or a low opinion of yourself. Maybe I'm reading him wrong though-- he's way too young and way too idealistic to just sail off into the sunset. Unless he somehow ushers in some sort of utopia in the next 4 years, which if this were the day after the 2008 election a lot of people might be suggesting as a total possibility.
   5146. Morty Causa Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4297039)
Obama seems to be more of a regular guy than most. I think he enjoys doing regular guy stuff. He's also a big family man who loves his daughters--and more: he likes being with them. He won't be skipping graduations, canoe-rapidding ala Homer and Bart. He may be the first ex-president to spend time in the neighborhood bar, shoot some pool (and of course hoops). Learn to Cajun dance?
   5147. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4297040)
They aren't trending that way though. Maybe it's just me but this state seems to get redder and redder every year.


At least as of 2004 the trend was toward a "great sorting" of the American electorate. Conservatives were moving into conservative enclaves. Liberals were moving into liberal enclaves. The partisanship of politics was manifesting itself geographically. I don't know that that trend has stopped. GA is getting redder, but is probably the only Deep South state that has a chance of going purple in the next decade or so. (GA's population of Latinos is growing per national averages, and combined with Atlanta (which no other Deep South state has an equivalent of) it's possible that GA goes a little blue in a few years.)
   5148. esseff Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4297041)
I missed this last night. May or may not be true -- not all giddy people are hammered -- but it is funny.
   5149. bunyon Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4297042)

And California gets bluer and bluer.


It just needs a release. Maybe a trip to Thailand?


I get what you are all saying about the drive it takes to become president. I just think it is incredibly grueling - such that we can't easily imagine. I can imagine a guy having 8 years to give and being, basically, shot.

But, yeah, some sort of international ambassador does make sense.


Perhaps he'll become President of Kenya.
   5150. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4297043)
I don't think so. GWB is laid back enough to just happily retire. Obama's far more intensely competitive than that.


Agreed. It's just not a good comp to put Obama and Dubya in the same sentence. Dubya's aspirations were driven by family expectations and daddy issues. Obama is driven by personal ambition and, well, a completely different set of daddy issues.
   5151. bunyon Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4297044)
I watched a lot of ABC (looking for local results - in vain). Diane certainly appeared drunk. Hey, it worked on The Newsroom.
   5152. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4297045)
At least as of 2004 the trend was toward a "great sorting" of the American electorate. Conservatives were moving into conservative enclaves. Liberals were moving into liberal enclaves. The partisanship of politics was manifesting itself geographically. I don't know that that trend has stopped. GA is getting redder, but is probably the only Deep South state that has a chance of going purple in the next decade or so. (GA's population of Latinos is growing per national averages, and combined with Atlanta (which no other Deep South state has an equivalent of) it's possible that GA goes a little blue in a few years.)


This is mostly true, but I would think Texas will go blue (purple) before GA.
   5153. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4297046)
Perhaps he'll become President of Kenya.


*slow clap*
   5154. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4297047)
At least as of 2004 the trend was toward a "great sorting" of the American electorate. Conservatives were moving into conservative enclaves. Liberals were moving into liberal enclaves. The partisanship of politics was manifesting itself geographically.


I was just talking about this with friends. The great political divide in this country is urban/rural. Present swing states are those where the urban/rural mix of the population is fairly even (and/or where the suburban population breaks urban/Dem (e.g., Northern VA)). In theory, Georgia could move that way with Atlanta offsetting the rest. Definitely much more likely than the rest of the currently-red South.
   5155. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4297048)
GA's population of Latinos is growing per national averages, and combined with Atlanta (which no other Deep South state has an equivalent of) it's possible that GA goes a little blue in a few years.


I have confidence that in the wake of the Latino vote playing such a clear role in Republicans losing the Presidency and Senate seats that local lawmakers--and we're about to see the state house get a super majority of Republicans--will instead continue to #### on Latinos in this state.
   5156. Tripon Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4297049)
A big part on why CA shifted in 1992 was prop 187. A poison pill if there was one for an entire party championed by Former Governor Wilson, who was a supposed Republican moderate. When you write off such a potential voting block that is only growing by backing a Prop that is clearly was just a sensational grab at making Whites stay with the Republican party. Which is extremely dumb in hindsight. Its the Republican party, they weren't going to leave anyway.
   5157. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4297050)
This is mostly true, but I would think Texas will go blue (purple) before GA.


Nomenclature nitpick: Texas is not a Deep South state. The Deep South runs from the South Carolina across to Louisiana, inclusive of Tennessee and Florida above the I-4 corridor. Texas is Texas.
   5158. spike Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4297051)
I don't see POTUS -> SC Justice happening

Me neither, but for differnt reasons. The trend seems to be to find the youngest hardliner for the President's POV that can plausibly be nominated. I doubt anyone over 55 gets appointed during the forseeable future.
   5159. zonk Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4297052)
Soooo... since my picks turned out about as poorly as the paid pundits, I figure I'm therefore entitled to the standard day after 'winners and losers' column...

WINNERS

NARAL/Pro-Choice/Planned Parenthood - Yes, the landscape on abortion had been moving towards a 50/50 split so far as national opinion goes. Organizations like PP have found themselves losing funding. However - I think all this shift was mostly due to the pro-life movement, or at least, its political provocateurs having pretty good discipline in lipservicing "rape/incest/health of mothers life". I think this lulled a lot of people - particularly women - into forgetting that ultimately, there's a loggerhead here. If "life begins at conception" - I think it's absolutely logical for a pro choice advocate to say "those are terrible things, but I believe what I believe". The GOP found itself with candidates that were logically consistent. There were multiple "personhood" movements that got it on the ballot. I highly suspect that those numbers start to slowly, but surely, slip back the other direction in the next few years. There are an awful lot of women - and women are marrying later, let's not forget - who have no real recollection of when this wasn't a more or less settled issue... Well, it's been unsettled again.

Marco Rubio - Of all the prominent Republicans, it's hard to see how he doesn't emerge from 2012 as the GOP's rising star... He's not in Senate leadership, so he escapes that debacle. He didn't get the veep nod, so he's got no ties to a loss. He's the unquestioned leader of the only electorally sane GOP route on issues like immigration. At the same time, he's got conservative bonafides thanks to ending Crist's career as a TP insurgent. Just like Obama parlayed liberal street cred on Iraq in 2004 into the 2008 primary, I think his TP shine won't wear off any time soon - even if he takes some internet bashing for pushing GOP moderation on certain issues.

Patty Murray - She ran the DSCC and while there was certainly some luck here in IN and MO - the Dems had an absolutely stellar recruitment cycle and got all but one of those recruits over the finish line. She had an enormously tough hand - the Dems were defending 21 seats to the GOP's 10. There was only one clear target - MA - at the start of this cycle. Even 6 months ago, even money at just keeping the Senate was a bad Dem bet. They had brutal open seats in red states. Yet - the DSCC had its best fundraising cycle ever and the Senate results have to make Dems absolutely giddy. I'm not claiming Murray is some master strategist here, but she ran the Dem Senate campaign, so right or wrong, she deserves a ton of credit.

Nate Silver - numbers rule, losers drool.

LOSERS

Karl Rove - The Fox meltdown is probably the end for him. He took in more than $300 million for his superPAC -- and today, has absolutely nothing to give those donors to tell them "here's what we won for you". Even at that the state level, where Dems were nervous - only NC appears to be a clear win. They failed to do anything in IL and CA, where Crossroads did pump a fair bit of a money into state legislature races. They failed almost completely - completely if you figure NE-SEN was going red any way - at the Senate level. Maybe he can convince those surely perturbed donors that they'd have bled out in the House without their money... but that's a tough sell for anyone who paid even the slightest bit of attention to redistricting. When you get down to it, the guy won a tossup in 2000, barely won in 2004 with a 'wartime President' - and really, hasn't done much else. Expect the long knives out for him and an end to his gravy train.

Nancy Pelosi - While it might be tempting to give the DCCC chair (Steve Israel) the nod here, Pelosi runs a MUCH tighter caucus in her chamber. True - some of this cycle was out of her control - the WH party in power recently tends to not do so well in midterms and she can't control redistricting... However, the Dems had some bad recruiting and some ugly D on D fights in primaries and even 'jungle' GE races. I like Pelosi and think she was one hell of a great caucus leader, but at 72, this was probably the end of the line for her in terms of power in the chamber and party.

Mitch McConnell - On the heels of his ill-advised "our top priority" statement, he probably put out the most churlish statement regarding Obama's reelection last night. He had a pretty good four years keeping the caucus inline, but he's got a race in 2014 and while I wouldn't expect a serious Dem challenge - unless Steve Beshear runs - I wouldn't be shocked to see him get a stiff primary challenge, not to mention - someone (Jim DeMint? Rubio?) make a play for ousting him. The natives - so far as I can tell from the 'nets' - do not seem to be big fans. He heads into the next congress will a smaller Senate, a shrinking number of allies, and a cloudy future.

The Minuteman Set - The demographics are screaming to the GOP that they've got to expel -- or at least, gag -- the Tancredo/Arpaio wing of the party. It's a losing play and already, an awful lot of Republicans -- even not-so-smart ones like Michael Steele -- are sounding the alarm. Nativists/english-only/whatever - they're either going to have to STFU and grumble or make some sort of Dixiecratish play.

DID THEY WIN BUT LOSE?

Barack Obama - It will be interesting to see what happens, even with the lame duck session -- there's still an only minorly weakened GOP House that still includes a lot angry TPers -- but the 'fiscal cliff' looms. Immigration is the logical next 'big thing' that I suspect will be on his term 2 agenda, but is it even possible to get anything through the house? Does he play politics and turn it into THE issue for the 2014 midterms? Does he enlist Rubio and try to get a hodge-podge of half measures? What does he owe the liberal wing of the party - which, despite claims of lower Dem enthusiasm - did come out for him? His place in history as one of the more 'consequential' Presidents of the 21st century is probably already secure... does he actually try to become the Democratic Reagan he often said he wanted to be? Or the Clintonian technocrat who essentially tries to get a lot of little things done?

Chris Christie - Christie's stature probably grew with everyone except the people that matter if he harbors national ambitions, where, by all accounts - it sunk tremendously. He's got a reelection campaign coming up, too - and a well-regarded Corey Booker sure to challenge him. He probably has no hope of running in 2016 if he loses, and it's entirely possible he doesn't even want to run. Is he interested in a consolation prize Senate seat?
   5160. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4297053)
Texas <> Deep South
   5161. OCF Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4297054)
Misirlou: I was actually talking about Los Angeles County. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Cook County margin would be more than that, and more than a million.
   5162. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4297055)
In theory, Georgia could move that way with Atlanta offsetting the rest. Definitely much more likely than the rest of the currently-red South.


Yep. The Atlanta suburbs are deeply red, but with a distinct Libertarian tinge. Neal Boortz is more popular out there than Rush or Sean Hannity. They toe the GOP party line, and there's large element of deep red social conservatives out there too, so it's possible but not as "inevitable" due to demographics as NoVA.
   5163. UCCF Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4297056)
This is Fox News,” an insider said, “so anytime there’s a chance to show off Megyn Kelly’s legs they’ll go for it.”
Well, yeah.


Rove's live, on-air hissy fit was easily the best part of last night. All that was missing was him crying for his blankie.
   5164. Steve Treder Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4297057)
Which is extremely dumb in hindsight. Its the Republican party, they weren't going to leave anyway.

Yeah, that's what's so puzzling about the never-ending push to the hard right by the GOP over the past couple of decades. It isn't just that by doing this they alienate crucial portions of the broader electorate, it's that they don't have to keep sucking up to the base the way they do. Where in the world are they afraid the social conservatives and Christian fundamentalists are going to go?
   5165. esseff Posted: November 07, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4297059)
And California gets bluer and bluer.


Which segues into . . . late returns show Democrats have probably taken several GOP House seats in Calif. Mary Bono is definitely out, and Dan Lungren and Brian Billbray are both down by the slimmest of margins with 100% reporting (I don't know the recount rules). Dem Henry Waxman appears to have narrowly survived against an independent, formerly Republican, challenger.

In other news, Obama's national popular vote lead is now up to 2.2 points. So, close but not the dead heat or statistically insignificant result that some declared without waiting for the California vote.
   5166. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4297063)
OK, I've earned 50 lashes with a wet noodle for not knowing/remembering Taft was a SCJ. I still make it long odds.

Michelle going for the Senate- now that I could see.

Hillary running in 2016? Will she still be interested? Someone said she looked like she's aged 20 years since she's been Sec of State.

I found two men who were US Senators and SCJ's - David Davis and Sherman "Shay" Minton. Not sure if there are more.
   5167. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4297064)
In theory, Georgia could move that way with Atlanta offsetting the rest. Definitely much more likely than the rest of the currently-red South.


Theoretically, yes. But right now there is a huge divide between the city and the immediate suburbs, and the gap isn't going to close in the next few years. If the metro area is going to carry the state the suburbs need to strongly move blue.
   5168. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4297065)
Texas <> Deep South


I guess. But I still consider anything that was part of the CSA to be part of the South (Texans invariably start to sputter and argue at this point). Deep South, sure I guess.
   5169. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4297066)
He may be the first ex-president to spend time in the neighborhood bar, shoot some pool (and of course hoops).


So what you're saying is that taxpayers will have to foot the bill for his most-expensive-of-all-time cadre of Secret Service agents long into the future.
   5170. esseff Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4297068)
And then there's this from California: Democrats now appear to have two-thirds majorities in both chambers of the Legislature ("appear" because a couple of races are still close).
   5171. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4297070)
I guess. But I still consider anything that was part of the CSA to be part of the South (Texans invariably start to sputter and argue at this point). Deep South, sure I guess.


We are admittedly a bit nitpicky about these things, yes.

Texas is Texas.

The Deep South, or the Heart of The South, is SC, GA, AL, MS, LA.

Kentucky and the mid-Atlantics are Border States.

Florida is Southern New York.

Arkansas is still Indian Territory as far as we can tell.
   5172. zonk Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4297072)
I don't see POTUS -> SC Justice happening

Me neither, but for differnt reasons. The trend seems to be to find the youngest hardliner for the President's POV that can plausibly be nominated. I doubt anyone over 55 gets appointed during the forseeable future.


Maybe... but this would absolutely NOT shock me.

For one thing - as many liberals have complained about - Obama has most certainly not pushed for a 'liberally activist' judiciary. Both Kagan and Sotomayer are certainly on the left branch on the court, but I don't think either is as left as say, Ginsburg (much to my dismay). Really, really, really hard for me to see how a two-term President who does have a legal background (setting aside whether he has a 'great legal mind' or not - let's face it, he's probably got enough that it's not like he's gonna get Harriet Myer'ed).

You can say it's spin, but all accounts say that he actually tends to enjoy that sort of stuff... doesn't mean he's good at it, of course, but there are a ton of stories about him being interested in various legal briefings and I think, clearly - based on his shot across the SCOTUS bow over CU - that he does care about that stuff.

I do agree that he's just not Bill Clinton -- he's one hella good politician, but I don't think he relishes politics and campaigning like Clinton does... he's more of the brutally efficient type. Greg Maddux to Bill Clinton's Pedro, maybe...

FWIW... I know a friend of a friend who works for FLOTUS' (in relatively high position and has known her for a while) who says that Michelle Obama has absolutely, positively, ZERO interest in politics. The things she said about being unsure about Barack running for office are all true - she's very smart and very ambitious, but just does not like politics. At all. I'd be shocked if she ever runs for anything.
   5173. DA Baracus Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4297073)
So what you're saying is that taxpayers will have to foot the bill for his most-expensive-of-all-time cadre of Secret Service agents long into the future.


It's okay Presidents only get Secret Service detail for 10 years now. So there's an end in sight.
   5174. SoSH U at work Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4297074)
The Deep South, or the Heart of The South, is SC, GA, AL, MS, LA.


Where do Tenn and NC (or is that considered a mid-Atlantic) fit in?

   5175. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4297075)
But the Rs really underestimate Obama.


The GOP thinks every single Dem Presidential candidate is a Jimmy Carter in disguise and when one of them surprises them and wins the election they don't change their opinion of him and thus get surprised in the next election as well. If you have no respect for the oppoistion you will constantly get your assed handed to you by competent foes.

In my memory:

1952 - Dems were scared of Eisenhower the war hero, effete egghead Stevenson wasn't taken seriously by Republicans

1956 - See above (rematch)

1960 - Dems drooled over the thought of facing Nixon's five o'clock shadow, Republicans thought Kennedy was a lightweight who slept and partied through his 14 years in Congress

1964 - Dems had to change pants every 15 minutes at the thought of facing Goldwater, Republicans knew they never had a chance, but they had long range strategic interests

1968 - Dems respected their unfortunate set of circumstances if not Nixon himself, Republicans knew that Humphrey was bound by LBJ and hurt by the Dem schism, and both parties feared Wallace's impact on key parts of their constituency

1972 - Dems hated and feared Nixon but respected his political savvy, Republicans salivated over "amnesty, acid and abortion" McGovern

1976 - Dems respected Ford's character, though not his brains, Republicans respected Carter's demographic appeal to the South

1980 - Dems thought Reagan was a Hollywood lightweight (I still can't believe that, but they did), Republicans saw Carter as an amusing pinata

1984 - Dems hated and feared Reagan this time around, Republicans could afford to respect Mondale, who never had a prayer of winning

1988 - Both parties thought they couldn't possibly lose to "that doofus"

1992 - Dems respected Bush's incumbency, Republicans respected Clinton's political savvy, and both fretted over Perot's ability to hurt them

1996 - Dems respected Dole's character but not his political skills, Republicans hated and feared "Slick Willie" even more than the first time around

2000 - Neither party had a whole lot of respect for their clueless cowboy / pointy-headed Harvard intellectual opponent

2004 - Dems feared Rove's money and ruthlessness, Republicans knew they could break down Kerry

2008 - Dems respected McCain, Republicans saw Obama as lightweight but had healthy respect for his political organization

2012 - Dems feared the economy and Romney's PAC supporters, but had little respect for Romney himself, Republicans respected Obama's ground game
   5176. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4297078)
Nah, Gov. Brown still has a veto, and he is a proper nag about the budget. We'll be fine.


Of course, a super-majority can simply over-ride that veto and I fully expect them to when they have the votes.

I'm sticking with proper ######.

[edit] Of course, eveen *if *the state legislature somehow manages not to FUBAR things completely, the general populace certainly will. Direct ballot propositions are a terrible way to govern a state.
   5177. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:13 PM (#4297079)
Me neither, but for differnt reasons. The trend seems to be to find the youngest hardliner for the President's POV that can plausibly be nominated. I doubt anyone over 55 gets appointed during the forseeable future.


Can a sitting president nominate himself?
   5178. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4297080)
Obama seems to be more of a regular guy than most. I think he enjoys doing regular guy stuff. He's also a big family man who loves his daughters--and more: he likes being with them. He won't be skipping graduations, canoe-rapidding ala Homer and Bart. He may be the first ex-president to spend time in the neighborhood bar, shoot some pool (and of course hoops).

He's got the six and the break, with no questions asked, but I'll have to take 21 points in a one-on-one going to 21. I've got my detectives and they've kept me up to date.(smile)
   5179. Craig in MN Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4297081)
Random musing: Setting aside that he didn't have a prayer in the primaries given how he positioned himself, could Huntsman have won the general election (assuming he took the posture that he took in the primaries)?


I've been kind of thinking about these questions this morning too. Maybe not Huntsman, but maybe Mitch Daniels, Pawlenty, or "generic Republican". Florida, New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, Iowa & Nevada all look to be decided by fewer than 100,000 votes, I think. Imagine Romney without the "let Detroit Bankrupt" and "47 percent" and foreign affairs bumbler stories hanging over him...how does that affect this race? It wouldn't take much to make a couple of those states swing the other way. Mitch Daniels could win Ohio, and maybe a smart running mate pick could win Florida. In that case, we might still be counting ballots. Of course, the whole gameplan of the election would change and it would be fascinating to see what how things would have been different.
   5180. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4297083)
I figure I'm therefore entitled to the standard day after 'winners and losers' column...


My additions:

Winners:

Gay people - mores states said gay marriage was okay by them, than those that rejected it. A definite change of heart since 2004.
Pot heads - legalized pot won more states than it lost

Losers:

Political pundits - Insisting it would be close while Nate calmly said otherwise (and called them out for it) made them look stupid.
Billionaire supporters - All that money they spent on the SuperPACs for Romney and the Republicans, and they lost ground at the end of the night (same Pres, no Senate majority, lost House seats).
   5181. GregD Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4297085)
Taft became Chief Justice. That's got to feel different than being the Junior justice who nods while the Chief and then, when the Chief is in dissent, the Senior Associate on the winning side, hand out orders.

If we keep on electing presidents in their 40s and early 50s, it's not unlikely one will go on to be Chief Justice some day in the future, but I can't see someone going from President to Associate Justice. And I don't see Roberts going anywhere soon.
   5182. zonk Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4297087)
MT-SEN called for Tester and Berg has conceded to Heitkamp in ND-SEN...

That's two awfully tough Dem holds that I did NOT see and means that the Dems come out +3...

Heller has been called in NV-SEN, but I haven't seen reports of Berkely conceding yet - the margin is about 2k, with 99% reporting...
   5183. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4297088)
I missed this last night. May or may not be true -- not all giddy people are hammered -- but it is funny.

It's not only funny, but I've suddenly developed a small crush on Diane Sawyer. She seemed more human during that clip than any broadcaster I've seen in my life. It was if she were almost totally oblivious to the fact that she was on national TV.
   5184. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4297090)
Misirlou: I was actually talking about Los Angeles County. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Cook County margin would be more than that, and more than a million.


OK, Cook went for Obama by 958,000. LA by 951,000.
   5185. zonk Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4297092)
I've been kind of thinking about these questions this morning too. Maybe not Huntsman, but maybe Mitch Daniels, Pawlenty, or "generic Republican". Florida, New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, Iowa & Nevada all look to be decided by fewer than 100,000 votes, I think. Imagine Romney without the "let Detroit Bankrupt" and "47 percent" and foreign affairs bumbler stories hanging over him...how does that affect this race? It wouldn't take much to make a couple of those states swing the other way. Mitch Daniels could win Ohio, and maybe a smart running mate pick could win Florida. In that case, we might still be counting ballots. Of course, the whole gameplan of the election would change and it would be fascinating to see what how things would have been different.


WaPo has an interesting story out today that Romney believed his initial Benghazi statement was a bad mistake and the campaign discussed it - but ultimately, was afraid that it would freak out the neocons if they backed away from the initial statements.
   5186. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4297093)
Losers:

Political pundits - Insisting it would be close while Nate calmly said otherwise (and called them out for it) made them look stupid.


No question about that part.

Billionaire supporters - All that money they spent on the SuperPACs for Romney and the Republicans, and they lost ground at the end of the night (same Pres, no Senate majority, lost House seats).

Yeah, but how many more billions have they made in the stock market since January 20, 2009?
   5187. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4297094)
Winners:

Gay people - mores states said gay marriage was okay by them, than those that rejected it. A definite change of heart since 2004.
Pot heads - legalized pot won more states than it lost


University of Colorado; Colorado State; Washington State; UW.

Recruiting just got a *lot* better for the Buffaloes and Huskies.
   5188. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4297095)
WaPo has an interesting story out today that Romney believed his initial Benghazi statement was a bad mistake and the campaign discussed it - but ultimately, was afraid that it would freak out the neocons if they backed away from the initial statements.

Christ, Krauthammer predicted that Romney would seal the election by pressing Obama on this "issue" during the third debate, and was seriously steamed when he didn't.
   5189. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4297097)
2000 - Neither party had a whole lot of respect for their clueless cowboy / pointy-headed Harvard intellectual opponent


Pointy-headed Harvard intellectual? No, Al Gore, the guy who said he invented the internet, discovered Love Canal, wrote "Love Story", and grew up in a fancy hotel but lied and said he did farm chores. Al Gore, shameless serial confabulator who lied about everything. Librulmediabias tried to save him, of course, but was somehow ineffective.
   5190. McCoy Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4297101)
I believe Truman was active in the 1960 election. I think he backed a Missouri candidate.
   5191. just plain joe Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4297103)
but he's got a race in 2014 and while I wouldn't expect a serious Dem challenge - unless Steve Beshear runs -


I don't know if Beshear will (or wants to) run for the Senate but IMHO he would have a good chance of defeating McConnell. Beshear is in his second term as governor of Kentucky and is generally thought to be doing a good job.
   5192. zonk Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4297105)
Now we can poll the pollsters!

Fordham Center for Electoral Politics has its rankings of pollsters for the 2012 cycle out...



1. PPP (D)*

1. Daily Kos/SEIU/PPP*

3. YouGov*

4. Ipsos/Reuters*

5. Purple Strategies

6. NBC/WSJ

6. CBS/NYT

6. YouGov/Economist

9. UPI/CVOTER

10. IBD/TIPP

11. Angus-Reid*

12. ABC/WP*

13. Pew Research*

13. Hartford Courant/UConn*

15. CNN/ORC

15. Monmouth/SurveyUSA

15. Politico/GWU/Battleground

15. FOX News

15. Washington Times/JZ Analytics

15. Newsmax/JZ Analytics

15. American Research Group

15. Gravis Marketing

23. Democracy Corps (D)*

24. Rasmussen

24. Gallup

26. NPR

27. National Journal*

28. AP/GfK

Scotty Rass near bringing up the rear is yet another wonderful little dose of schadenfreude today...
   5193. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4297107)
The Deep South, or the Heart of The South, is SC, GA, AL, MS, LA.


Where do Tenn and NC (or is that considered a mid-Atlantic) fit in?

In terms of ideology, Tennessee, Kentucky, and West Virginia are fast approaching Deep South status, while North Carolina seems headed more in the direction of Virginia.

Interesting that Virginia (along with Texas) was the first state to really break away from the old "Solid South" in presidential elections, and Northern Virginia elected an ultra-right wing Republican Congressman in 1952. And now it seems as if Virginia is becoming more and more Democratic.
   5194. puck Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4297108)
Recruiting just got a *lot* better for the Buffaloes and Huskies.

Colin Cowherd was talking about this this morning: Denver Nuggets become a destination for free agents, and the NBA returns to Seattle.
   5195. zonk Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4297110)
Pot heads - legalized pot won more states than it lost


It should be noted that the one-state pot measures lost in (well, discounting AR's medical marijuana failure) -- Oregon -- had a ballot measure that did NOT get support by the usual NORML suspects... In fact, I'm not even sure NORML actually endorsed the OR measure. It was very, very unwieldy, with no limits on anything and from what I read - most marijuana advocates said it was a bridge too far and wholly an unreasonable pie-in-the-sky attempt that ought to only get the support of the hardcore stoners.
   5196. Danny Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4297112)
Fordham Center for Electoral Politics has its rankings of pollsters for the 2012 cycle out...

You can't really do this without looking at state polls. Also, that guy's initial rankings from 2008 were way off.
   5197. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4297113)
I believe Truman was active in the 1960 election. I think he backed a Missouri candidate.

Senator Stuart Symington of Missouri. Truman was also Adlai Stevenson's main patron in 1952, helping to persuade him to pursue the nomination after Stevenson skipped the primary season.
   5198. PerroX Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4297115)
The election was much closer than it appears in your rear-view mirror.
   5199. Chicago Joe Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4297117)
2021 and future - Ascends to Heaven to be seated at the right hand of the father he stole all those dreams from.
   5200. Morty Causa Posted: November 07, 2012 at 02:50 PM (#4297118)
I guess. But I still consider anything that was part of the CSA to be part of the South (Texans invariably start to sputter and argue at this point). Deep South, sure I guess.


East Texas is very much like West Louisiana. The twang is even similar, and just as Cajuns invaded southwest Louisiana (the Lake Charles area), that invasion encroaches into southeast Texas, such as Orange, Beaumont, Port Arthur. And in the north part of both states, well, just remember that Joe Bob Briggs was just as at home in the Shreveport-Bossier City movie drive-ins as he was in the Dallas-Fort Worth ones.
Page 52 of 114 pages ‹ First  < 50 51 52 53 54 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
James Kannengieser
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogThe 2015 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!
(124 - 12:49am, Dec 20)
Last: Gamingboy

NewsblogMax Scherzer not a realistic option, New York Yankees' Randy Levine says - ESPN New York
(69 - 12:46am, Dec 20)
Last: donlock

NewsblogOT: Politics - December 2014: Baseball & Politics Collide in New Thriller
(5061 - 12:15am, Dec 20)
Last: Morty Causa

NewsblogJerry Crasnick on Twitter: "Jake Peavy has agreed on 2 yr deal with
(13 - 12:13am, Dec 20)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogOC Register | Former Angels prospect Ryan Bolden shot to death
(2 - 12:06am, Dec 20)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(1356 - 11:43pm, Dec 19)
Last: Greg K

NewsblogTrading Justin Upton means the Braves are in full rebuilding mode | Mark Bradley blog
(78 - 11:40pm, Dec 19)
Last: shoewizard

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - December 2014
(743 - 11:33pm, Dec 19)
Last: King Mekong

NewsblogAmazin' Avenue - Cohen: Mets and Rockies discussing Troy Tulowitzki deal with Noah Syndergaard as the centerpiece
(34 - 11:22pm, Dec 19)
Last: Banta

NewsblogFull Count » Source: Red Sox close to deal sending Will Middlebrooks to Padres for Ryan Hanigan
(10 - 11:13pm, Dec 19)
Last: The TVerik of Lordly Might

NewsblogThe 4 surprisingly quiet teams of the MLB offseason
(28 - 10:07pm, Dec 19)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogRoyals sign Kris Medlen to two-year deal - MLB Daily Dish
(32 - 8:20pm, Dec 19)
Last: WSPanic

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-19-2014
(10 - 7:47pm, Dec 19)
Last: bobm

NewsblogHow the Rays lost the City Council vote - DRaysBay
(4 - 6:55pm, Dec 19)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(9173 - 5:25pm, Dec 19)
Last: Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor

Page rendered in 0.8259 seconds
48 querie(s) executed