Andrew Sullivan was almost run out of "Gayville"

Sam I think you are wrong on this. The GLBT movement is a collective based on shared goals. it does not define the members. What you are saying is roughly like saying you find Liberals or Occupy Wall Street or basically any group of people with similar goals to be silly.

A civil union is a second-class marriage, period.

Would there be any restriction that the government could place on a religious marriage? Age? Species?

My wife and I were joined in a completely secular ceremony, with a non-religious official, where everyone was more concerned with eating and partying afterwards than with the actual ceremony.

To me what we have is a civil union. Just because the church down the street would consider it a valid marriage because of our gender, doesn't bump our union into first class status.

How is this second class*?

Well, I'm pretty much equally dismissive and stand-offish about people defining themselves as "Liberals" or "Occupy Wall Street" too.

Well, I'm pretty much equally dismissive and stand-offish about people defining themselves as "Liberals" or "Occupy Wall Street" too.

They're not? Who gave the Word Police so much authority? Was it in the Patriot Act? If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?

Don't you mean Gay City?

I just took that test and it said that I have a slight preference for African Americans. (I'm white.) Not sure what that means.

If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?

Fist-bump.

Stop being pedantic. You know what I mean. They are not free to say they are married and and have it not lead to awkward pauses at the best, and outright belligerent arguments at the worst. That might not matter to you. but it obviously matters to millions of others.

Fist-bumping is so gay.

bunch of patriarchal bigots in here!

Because you are free to say that you are "married" and no one blinks an eye because they know what you mean. If you were to use the proper term and say that you were "civilly unified", no one would know what the hell you re talking about.

But I'm too insecure in my sexuality for a bro-hug. What's left?

Stop being pedantic. You know what I mean. They are not free to say they are married and and have it not lead to awkward pauses at the best, and outright belligerent arguments at the worst. That might not matter to you. but it obviously matters to millions of others.

The strongest case for gay marriage involves equal protection under the law. Protecting people from awkward pauses and belligerent arguments is among the very weakest. The government has no more business making a bigot respect gay marriage than it has preventing gay marriage.

Now, you have 2 women who were civilly joined in the identical fashion you were. They are not free to say they are married, because their state doesn't allow for gay marriage. Yes, that's mostly symbolism, but symbols are powerful. The fact that you are free to call yourself married makes your life a bit easier.

Let me just go on the record as a Liberal and state that I am a-ok with dissolving the FBI to cut the Federal Budget.

The Petraeus story is a farce at this point. This Jill Kelley person must be amazing in bed. I don't think I've sent 30K pages of email in my life. What the hell do you have to write about?

20,000 to 30,000 pages of email. Seriously think about that for a second.

Cheap bastard, making us share a two-liter bottle rather than shell out for the individual cans. By the time it gets to me, that Coke's going to be less bubbly than Murray Chass.

From Politico - "Former CIA director David Petraeus and his biographer, Paula Broadwell, discussed their extramarital dalliances using an email technique favored by Al Qaeda, according to a report.
Rather than sending emails back and forth to each other, Petraeus and Broadwell shared an email account where both would write messages and leave them in the “draft” folder, according to The Associated Press. The other person would then log in to the account, read the draft email, delete it and then compose a response, also to be left as a draft note"

Right after the DEA. But the DEA goes first.

PHOENIX (Reuters) - An Arizona woman, in despair at the re-election of Democratic President Barack Obama, ran down her husband with the family car in suburban Phoenix on Saturday because he failed to vote in the election, police said on Monday.

Holly Solomon, 28, was arrested after running over husband Daniel Solomon following a wild chase that left him pinned underneath the vehicle.

Daniel Solomon, 36, was in critical condition at a local hospital, but is expected to survive, Gilbert police spokesman Sergeant Jesse Sanger said.

Police said Daniel Solomon told them his wife became angry over his "lack of voter participation" in last Tuesday's presidential election and believed her family would face hardship as a result of Obama winning another term.

Witnesses reported the argument broke out on Saturday morning in a parking lot and escalated. Mrs Solomon then chased her husband around the lot with the car, yelling at him as he tried to hide behind a light pole, police said. He was struck after attempting to flee to a nearby street.

From Politico - "Former CIA director David Petraeus and his biographer, Paula Broadwell, discussed their extramarital dalliances using an email technique favored by Al Qaeda, according to a report.
Rather than sending emails back and forth to each other, Petraeus and Broadwell shared an email account where both would write messages and leave them in the “draft” folder, according to The Associated Press. The other person would then log in to the account, read the draft email, delete it and then compose a response, also to be left as a draft note"

Right after the DEA. But the DEA goes first.



when does the ATF go?

Cheap bastard, making us share a two-liter bottle rather than shell out for the individual cans.

But Dan is right, philosophically. That and $2.45 gets you a coffee at the airport.

I appreciate the compliment as I know how much you need in addition to $2.45 to buy anything at an airport.

Adam Carolla had the best comment about this thus far: "I'd be a little worried that the... director of the CIA... couldn't keep this affair secret. Are you kidding me?"

The besotted Broadwell may have viewed the curvaceous Kelley as a threat. Broadwell may be able to run a six-minute mile with Petraeus, but Kelley looks like a woman who lets the guys do all the running—and in her direction.

Not going to go full Cold Pros. and call for the disbanding of the the FDA and USDA. Doesn't seem suitable to be handled by state, local, or private authorities.

The besotted Broadwell may have viewed the curvaceous Kelley as a threat. Broadwell may be able to run a six-minute mile with Petraeus, but Kelley looks like a woman who lets the guys do all the running—and in her direction.

Well, it's a little too much trouble to prioritize so lets go alphabetical:

1) ATF
2) DEA
3) DHS
4) FBI
5) TSA

Honestly, neither Broadwell nor Kelley is all that attractive, except as held up against Holly Petraeus. I mean, they're ok looking, but as far as risking your career/marriage/reputation over them - no. At least Tiger Woods, for the most part, knew to risk everything over women who were actually pretty.

The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?

Well, it's a little too much trouble to prioritize so lets go alphabetical:

1) ATF
2) DEA
3) DHS
4) FBI
5) TSA

We had the same conversation at work this morning. Between 4 of us, we realized we haven't collectively sent as many emails in our lives as what Kelley received from one sender.

The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?

I do know why anyone cares – because this is still a Puritanical country where we'd all like to believe that sex should be reserved for hetero married couples, once a year without undue noise or movement, underneath the Christmas tree after the children have been knocked unconscious by eggnog.

But that said, my rhetorical question remains, who cares? Two adults wanted to send mash notes over e-mail without their spouse(s) and/or other crush(es) finding out. I am shocked, shocked to find that eroticism is going on in this country :)

I've never personally seen the allure.

Why should the director of the CIA know how to encrypt data?

I've never personally seen the allure. I have a hard enough time getting *one* woman to generally leave me alone. I certainly don't need *two* women criticizing me for drinking a bottle of sherry and then napping in the hammock all afternoon while they're at work or the fact that my wardrobe is mostly the same shirt and pants in different colors.

I have come around to the idea that folks in sensitive intelligence postings probably ought to get an exception to this rule...

The besotted Broadwell may have viewed the curvaceous Kelley as a threat. Broadwell may be able to run a six-minute mile with Petraeus, but Kelley looks like a woman who lets the guys do all the running—and in her direction.

The CIA double-no code aside, nobody could possibly believe that Petraeus would allow himself to be blackmailed into betraying the nation over an affair. But the principle of the boss adhering to the rules remained. And Clapper is said to have urged Petraeus to resign on his own terms rather than await the jackals.

Petraeus dutifully went to the White House to tender his resignation. Never mind that the Oval Office has witnessed much philandering over the decades with nobody having to resign. Never mind that Bill Clinton remains living proof of the silliness of modern puritanism. Our present president is by every indication a faithful husband, but he needed Clinton’s help to get reelected.

The fact that the resignation came immediately after the election, even though the case is said to have begun back in late May or the beginning of June, has made more than a few people wonder about the timing.

Whatever the truth in this regard, it remains pitifully ironic that Petraeus could come to such grief over a little sex under a desk in a war zone where thousands of people were and are earnestly seeking to blow other people to bloody bits. Shoot but don’t schtup?

And just because Broadwell performed the literary equivalent of sex under a desk does not mean that any actual sex is anybody’s business.

By the long-honored principle of minimization, the members of Congress who are demanding to know why they were not told earlier about Petraeus’s affair with his biographer should be asking another question.

They should instead be demanding to know why anybody outside the FBI was told anything at all.

Also, why do people conduct affairs over email/Text message? Isn't that just hellaciously stupid?

If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?

Honestly, neither Broadwell nor Kelley is all that attractive, except as held up against Holly Petraeus

Also, why do people conduct affairs over email/Text message? Isn't that just hellaciously stupid?

I don't think I'm above it all, it's just that gluttony and sloth are my more typical sins of choice.

Why did people write letters before--people like the frigging Duke of Wellington. Never underestimate the rationalization power of the little head over the big head. And quit pretending you would be above it all.

Admit it, that would be totally epic.

Admit it, that would be totally epic.

How else would one expect them to conduct said affair? Carrier pigeon?

now obama is dictating to private enterprise and you wonder why NOW 23 states want to succeed , I will be right with them