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Wednesday, October 31, 2012

OTP November 2012 - Moneypoll! The Pundits vs. The Election-Data Nerds

Come next Tuesday night, we’ll get a resolution (let’s hope) to a great ongoing battle of 2012: not just the Presidential election between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, but the one between the pundits trying to analyze that race with their guts and a new breed of statistics gurus trying to forecast it with data.

In Election 2012 as seen by the pundits–political journalists on the trail, commentators in cable-news studios–the campaign is a jump ball. There’s a slight lead for Mitt Romney in national polls and slight leads for Barack Obama in swing-state polls, and no good way of predicting next Tuesday’s outcome beyond flipping a coin. ...

Bonus link: Esquire - The Enemies of Nate Silver

Joe Kehoskie Posted: October 31, 2012 at 11:42 PM | 11298 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mr president, off-topic, politics, sabermetrics, usa

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   7501. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4301293)
By this system, polygamy would have been fine.

And?

Would there be any restriction that the government could place on a religious marriage? Age? Species?

None. I can call myself anything I want.

The restriction on civil marital cohabitation contracts (or whatever you want to call it) is easy. We have plenty of established law on who can enter into a contract to fall back on for convenience.
   7502. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4301294)
Andrew Sullivan was almost run out of "Gayville"


Don't you mean Gay City?
   7503. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4301298)
Sam I think you are wrong on this. The GLBT movement is a collective based on shared goals. it does not define the members. What you are saying is roughly like saying you find Liberals or Occupy Wall Street or basically any group of people with similar goals to be silly.


Well, I'm pretty much equally dismissive and stand-offish about people defining themselves as "Liberals" or "Occupy Wall Street" too.
   7504. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4301300)
A civil union is a second-class marriage, period.


My wife and I were joined in a completely secular ceremony, with a non-religious official, where everyone was more concerned with eating and partying afterwards than with the actual ceremony.

To me what we have is a civil union. Just because the church down the street would consider it a valid marriage because of our gender, doesn't bump our union into first class status.

How is this second class*?

* This is in the hypothetical world where all couples are recognized as civil unions by the state, and the word marriage is not used.
   7505. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4301304)
Would there be any restriction that the government could place on a religious marriage? Age? Species?


Assuming your talking strictly about religious ceremony, with no contractual rights and obligations, no. The problem occurs when you get into consent. Some weird ass chucrch could marry a 40 year old and a 5 year old, but if that marriage is consummated before the 5 year old reaches the age of consent, then you have problems.

   7506. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4301305)
And?

Just checking.

Age?

None.


That one concerns me, do you still have statutory rape on the books that includes married partners?
   7507. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4301308)
That one concerns me, do you still have statutory rape on the books that includes married partners?

Yes. You can call yourself married by ceremony, but an underage sexual partner still does not have the contractual ability to enter into a sexual relationship.

I can call myself Emperor of Szymborskiville all I want, but that doesn't give me the power to summon Time-Warner customer service for their beheadings.
   7508. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4301309)
My wife and I were joined in a completely secular ceremony, with a non-religious official, where everyone was more concerned with eating and partying afterwards than with the actual ceremony.

To me what we have is a civil union. Just because the church down the street would consider it a valid marriage because of our gender, doesn't bump our union into first class status.

How is this second class*?


Because you are free to say that you are "married" and no one blinks an eye because they know what you mean. If you were to use the proper term and say that you were "civilly unified", no one would know what the hell you re talking about.

Now, you have 2 women who were civilly joined in the identical fashion you were. They are not free to say they are married, because their state doesn't allow for gay marriage. Yes, that's mostly symbolism, but symbols are powerful. The fact that you are free to call yourself married makes your life a bit easier.


   7509. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4301312)
The Petraeus story is a farce at this point. This Jill Kelley person must be amazing in bed. I don't think I've sent 30K pages of email in my life. What the hell do you have to write about? Also, why do people conduct affairs over email/Text message? Isn't that just hellaciously stupid?
   7510. spike Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4301313)
"Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between European American and African American."

Well there's a bit of comfort. Having to rewire your synapses to do the last part was quite stressful.
   7511. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4301314)
They are not free to say they are married

They're not? Who gave the Word Police so much authority? Was it in the Patriot Act? If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?
   7512. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4301315)
Some weird ass chucrch could marry a 40 year old and a 5 year old

The correct term is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".
   7513. formerly dp Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4301316)
Well, I'm pretty much equally dismissive and stand-offish about people defining themselves as "Liberals" or "Occupy Wall Street" too.

Fixed.

Fist-bump.
   7514. Bitter Mouse Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:15 PM (#4301321)
Well, I'm pretty much equally dismissive and stand-offish about people defining themselves as "Liberals" or "Occupy Wall Street" too.


Dismiss all you like (of course), but effective action generally happens through those collectives.

EDIT: Coke to formerly dp, because you deserve it for just being you :)
   7515. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4301324)
They're not? Who gave the Word Police so much authority? Was it in the Patriot Act? If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?


Stop being pedantic. You know what I mean. They are not free to say they are married and and have it not lead to awkward pauses at the best, and outright belligerent arguments at the worst. That might not matter to you. but it obviously matters to millions of others.
   7516. Howie Menckel Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4301327)

Last I saw, it was "LGBT" much more commonly than "GLBT."

bunch of patriarchal bigots in here!
:)

   7517. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4301331)
Don't you mean Gay City?


No, I mean Gayville, dammit.
   7518. Randy Jones Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4301333)
I just took that test and it said that I have a slight preference for African Americans. (I'm white.) Not sure what that means.

I got the same result.


If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?

Seems like you'd have a decent case for an insanity plea.
   7519. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:22 PM (#4301334)
Fist-bump.


Fist-bumping is so gay.
   7520. SoSH U at work Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4301336)
Stop being pedantic. You know what I mean. They are not free to say they are married and and have it not lead to awkward pauses at the best, and outright belligerent arguments at the worst. That might not matter to you. but it obviously matters to millions of others.


But that's an attitude that the law itself won't change. Time will fix it, and is fixing it, but gay couples now are free to say they are married, and gay marriage opponents are free to argue belligerently that they're not, regardless what state they happen to be in at the moment.

Now I vigorously support gay marriage, and hope the process is expedited where gay couples have full and equal access to all the benefits of marriage, including legal ownership of the word. But even when they that happens, the law can't legislate away conversational issues like the one you describe above.
   7521. formerly dp Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4301337)
Fist-bumping is so gay.

But I'm too insecure in my sexuality for a bro-hug. What's left?
   7522. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4301338)
bunch of patriarchal bigots in here!


Lynchings all around!
   7523. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4301341)
Because you are free to say that you are "married" and no one blinks an eye because they know what you mean. If you were to use the proper term and say that you were "civilly unified", no one would know what the hell you re talking about.


? Why can't they say they're married, even if it's a civil union? "We got married in Florida." "Yay, congrats to you."

   7524. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4301342)
But I'm too insecure in my sexuality for a bro-hug. What's left?


Passing around Jill Kelley for sloppy thirds or fourths, apparently.
   7525. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4301347)
They are not free to say they are married and and have it not lead to awkward pauses at the best, and outright belligerent arguments at the worst.

That's a terrible argument. Do you really think people who are against gay marriage, especially the ones who hold that belief on the basis of outright bigotry, dislike gay marriage simply on the basis of its legal description? Or that people who are for gay marriage aren't going to like gay marriage because of the legal definition of a marriage contract? That's preposterous. The strongest case for gay marriage involves equal protection under the law. Protecting people from awkward pauses and belligerent arguments is among the very weakest. The government has no more business making a bigot respect gay marriage than it has preventing gay marriage.

   7526. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4301349)

Stop being pedantic. You know what I mean. They are not free to say they are married and and have it not lead to awkward pauses at the best, and outright belligerent arguments at the worst. That might not matter to you. but it obviously matters to millions of others.


Please. Few straight people even know which states allow SSM and which states do not. Few straight people care about this issue, beyond saying that they don't support SSM (if they don't). And those who don't support SSM are likely so afraid of being labeled a homophobe that they won't bother putting up any resistance to a same-sex couple in a domestic partnership who calls themselves married. (Yeah, sorry if people are not guaranteed freedom from awkward pauses.)

This issue is over. The opponents of SSM have lost. All that's left to do is for the proponents of SSM to claim the remaining victories, which will take another decade or so, because it takes time to phase this in - it can't be done overnight. So the continual whining from intolerant people about bigotry and lack of tolerance is utterly silly and at this point is done more as an attention grab than anything else. "Look at me! I'm much better than you! You are a bigot!"


   7527. zenbitz Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4301350)
Let me just go on the record as a Liberal and state that I am a-ok with dissolving the FBI to cut the Federal Budget.
   7528. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4301351)
The strongest case for gay marriage involves equal protection under the law. Protecting people from awkward pauses and belligerent arguments is among the very weakest. The government has no more business making a bigot respect gay marriage than it has preventing gay marriage.


All of his pie-in-the-sky utopianism aside, Dan is undoubtedly correct with these sentences.
   7529. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4301354)
Now, you have 2 women who were civilly joined in the identical fashion you were. They are not free to say they are married, because their state doesn't allow for gay marriage. Yes, that's mostly symbolism, but symbols are powerful. The fact that you are free to call yourself married makes your life a bit easier.



yeah but all unions would be equally protected under the law and receive all the benefits that the state protects for that contract/union. You can change people's attitudes over a word and the words attached religious connotation by legislation.

Partial cokes to SOSH, Ray, & Dan
   7530. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4301355)
Why can't they say they're married, even if it's a civil union? "We got married in Florida." "Yay, congrats to you."

What, are you telling me you don't track down proper documentation when you meet people that tell you they're married? You should see the documentation I require when people say they're engaged. And this one time a dude told me he was Catholic, I'd have his blood alcohol taken every Sunday after church to make sure that he has the necessary Christ-blood to be denoted as such.
   7531. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4301357)
Let me just go on the record as a Liberal and state that I am a-ok with dissolving the FBI to cut the Federal Budget.


Right after the DEA. But the DEA goes first.
   7532. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4301361)
Partial cokes to SOSH, Ray, & Dan

Cheap bastard, making us share a two-liter bottle rather than shell out for the individual cans. By the time it gets to me, that Coke's going to be less bubbly than Murray Chass.
   7533. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4301362)
The Petraeus story is a farce at this point. This Jill Kelley person must be amazing in bed. I don't think I've sent 30K pages of email in my life. What the hell do you have to write about?


We had the same conversation at work this morning. Between 4 of us, we realized we haven't collectively sent as many emails in our lives as what Kelley received from one sender.
   7534. Danny Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4301363)
20,000 to 30,000 pages of email. Seriously think about that for a second.

Welcome to the glorious life of a litigation associate.
   7535. spike Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4301364)
why do people conduct affairs over email/Text message? Isn't that just hellaciously stupid?

Apparently Broadwell and the general thought they had that covered -

From Politico - "Former CIA director David Petraeus and his biographer, Paula Broadwell, discussed their extramarital dalliances using an email technique favored by Al Qaeda, according to a report.
Rather than sending emails back and forth to each other, Petraeus and Broadwell shared an email account where both would write messages and leave them in the “draft” folder, according to The Associated Press. The other person would then log in to the account, read the draft email, delete it and then compose a response, also to be left as a draft note"

   7536. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4301365)
Between 4 of us, we realized we haven't collectively sent as many emails in our lives as what Kelley received from one sender.

I think I got about that much nasty email when I suggested the Giants use Melky Cabrera in the World Series.
   7537. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4301366)
To me what we have is a civil union.

That's nice and all, but that isn't what you have, so it's moot.





   7538. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4301367)
Cheap bastard, making us share a two-liter bottle rather than shell out for the individual cans. By the time it gets to me, that Coke's going to be less bubbly than Murray Chass.


Who said anything about a 2-liter bottle. It's a can of Tab. Times are tough
   7539. zenbitz Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4301368)

I actually had a opposite-sex civil union for several years, granted in NY. I had one job (small pharma company in SSF) where opposite-sex (and same sex) civil unions allowed you health benefit "rights". My next job, at Stanford only allowed this for same-sex civil unions, but by then we had actually gotten Married (after 15 years).

We go married because civil unions were highly non equivalent LEGALLY. Not only in the office place benefits issue, but also we felt we would not likely get the same hospital visitation rights and especially (since we were pregnant at the time) a little worried about child custody if one of us died. (In-laws could theoretically make a custody move).

But Dan is right, philosophically. That and $2.45 gets you a coffee at the airport.
   7540. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4301372)
From Politico - "Former CIA director David Petraeus and his biographer, Paula Broadwell, discussed their extramarital dalliances using an email technique favored by Al Qaeda, according to a report.
Rather than sending emails back and forth to each other, Petraeus and Broadwell shared an email account where both would write messages and leave them in the “draft” folder, according to The Associated Press. The other person would then log in to the account, read the draft email, delete it and then compose a response, also to be left as a draft note"


Well, there's reason to demand his resignation right there. That's pretty piss-poor crytopgraphy from a dude that's supposed to be heading the frigging CIA. Makes me wonder if someone can hack into Langley as guest/password.
   7541. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4301374)
Adam Carolla had the best comment about this thus far: "I'd be a little worried that the... director of the CIA... couldn't keep this affair secret. Are you kidding me?"

   7542. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4301375)
Who said anything about a 2-liter bottle. It's a can of Tab. Times are tough

Coke is defined as Coke. Tab is just a civil cola.
   7543. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4301377)

Right after the DEA. But the DEA goes first.


when does the ATF go?

   7544. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4301378)
PHOENIX (Reuters) - An Arizona woman, in despair at the re-election of Democratic President Barack Obama, ran down her husband with the family car in suburban Phoenix on Saturday because he failed to vote in the election, police said on Monday.

Holly Solomon, 28, was arrested after running over husband Daniel Solomon following a wild chase that left him pinned underneath the vehicle.

Daniel Solomon, 36, was in critical condition at a local hospital, but is expected to survive, Gilbert police spokesman Sergeant Jesse Sanger said.

Police said Daniel Solomon told them his wife became angry over his "lack of voter participation" in last Tuesday's presidential election and believed her family would face hardship as a result of Obama winning another term.

Witnesses reported the argument broke out on Saturday morning in a parking lot and escalated. Mrs Solomon then chased her husband around the lot with the car, yelling at him as he tried to hide behind a light pole, police said. He was struck after attempting to flee to a nearby street.
   7545. zenbitz Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4301379)
From Politico - "Former CIA director David Petraeus and his biographer, Paula Broadwell, discussed their extramarital dalliances using an email technique favored by Al Qaeda, according to a report.
Rather than sending emails back and forth to each other, Petraeus and Broadwell shared an email account where both would write messages and leave them in the “draft” folder, according to The Associated Press. The other person would then log in to the account, read the draft email, delete it and then compose a response, also to be left as a draft note"


Clearly, affirmative action is allowing unqualified folks to reach positions of authority in the government (or become sucessful biographers?.

I mean... IF THEY HEARD ABOUT the technique someone else was using maybe it wasn't that secure... since you know IT GOT FIGURED OUT.

The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?


   7546. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4301381)
But Dan is right, philosophically. That and $2.45 gets you a coffee at the airport.

I appreciate the compliment as I know how much you need in addition to $2.45 to buy anything at an airport.
   7547. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4301382)
Before FBI. After DEA and Homeland Security.
   7548. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4301383)
Police said Daniel Solomon told them his wife became angry over his "lack of voter participation" in last Tuesday's presidential election and believed her family would face hardship as a result of Obama winning another term.

Actually thinking that her husband had hundreds of thousands and votes in 4 separate states is probably even worse than hitting him with a car.
   7549. zenbitz Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4301384)

Right after the DEA. But the DEA goes first.



when does the ATF go?


Well, it's a little too much trouble to prioritize so lets go alphabetical:

1) ATF
2) DEA
3) DHS
4) FBI
5) TSA

Not going to go full Cold Pros. and call for the disbanding of the the FDA and USDA. Doesn't seem suitable to be handled by state, local, or private authorities. Despite it's proven lack of competence (see above), I suppose that foreign intelligence, i.e., CIA is still a federal task.
   7550. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4301386)
I learned just now that there is a Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union. That's a very wacky 19th century-sounding alliance. I kind of wonder if there's an International Haberdasher, Dishwasher, Apothecary & Gentleman of Leisure Guild out there.
   7551. BurlyBuehrle Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4301387)
Cheap bastard, making us share a two-liter bottle rather than shell out for the individual cans.


Eh, Mayor Bloomberg won't let any one person horde too much of the two-liter anyway, so don't worry about it.
   7552. zenbitz Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4301388)
But Dan is right, philosophically. That and $2.45 gets you a coffee at the airport.

I appreciate the compliment as I know how much you need in addition to $2.45 to buy anything at an airport.


Actually this is my concrete example of how overpriced Starbucks is. It's $2 everywhere except the airport where it's $2.45. Every other foodstuff is marked up 100%, not 22%.
   7553. zonk Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4301389)
Adam Carolla had the best comment about this thus far: "I'd be a little worried that the... director of the CIA... couldn't keep this affair secret. Are you kidding me?"


Pshaww.... The media, the genera public, and elected officials of both parties long ago determined the Most Holy and Sainted David Patraeus shall not be questioned or criticized.

He could have been with 13 yos Danny Thomas style in the Lincoln bedroom and we'd still get nothing but "Such a tragic end to such an honorable man... yada yada..."
   7554. Danny Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4301390)
Serious journalism:
The besotted Broadwell may have viewed the curvaceous Kelley as a threat. Broadwell may be able to run a six-minute mile with Petraeus, but Kelley looks like a woman who lets the guys do all the running—and in her direction.
   7555. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4301392)
The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?

It really makes the original Mission Impossible movie seem less plausible.

"OK, Ving Rhames and Jean Reno, here's the plan. We need to get that NOC List held secure at Langley. The door it is hidden behind has a chair and table in front of it. There's also a lock that only can be released by standing on your tippy-toes. Inside the room, we will be detected if we do not acquire the disk between 4 AM and 2 AM, when the janitorial staff is not windexing the mainframe. Also, unless it is Jeans Friday, make sure you're wearing a tie and no denim. The NOC computer can only be accessed if it is plugged into an electrical outlet and turned on. Break!"
   7556. zonk Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4301393)

Not going to go full Cold Pros. and call for the disbanding of the the FDA and USDA. Doesn't seem suitable to be handled by state, local, or private authorities.


Massachusetts begs to differ!

Oh wait, no it doesn't...
   7557. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4301394)
Serious journalism:

The Daily Beast's essentially just Entertainment Tonight for people who are too fancy and sophisticated to watch Entertainment Tonight.
   7558. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4301395)
The besotted Broadwell may have viewed the curvaceous Kelley as a threat. Broadwell may be able to run a six-minute mile with Petraeus, but Kelley looks like a woman who lets the guys do all the running—and in her direction.


Honestly, neither Broadwell nor Kelley is all that attractive, except as held up against Holly Petraeus. I mean, they're ok looking, but as far as risking your career/marriage/reputation over them - no. At least Tiger Woods, for the most part, knew to risk everything over women who were actually pretty.

But yes, it turns out that the CIA and FBI are filled with and surrounded by people with the maturity level of college students, and it turns out - shockingly - that married people often have affairs. Anyone who is in a marriage and thinks their spouse has been faithful probably has a 1 in 2 or at least 1 in 3 chance of being wrong.
   7559. BDC Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4301396)
The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?

I do know why anyone cares – because this is still a Puritanical country where we'd all like to believe that sex should be reserved for hetero married couples, once a year without undue noise or movement, underneath the Christmas tree after the children have been knocked unconscious by eggnog.

But that said, my rhetorical question remains, who cares? Two adults wanted to send mash notes over e-mail without their spouse(s) and/or other crush(es) finding out. I am shocked, shocked to find that eroticism is going on in this country :)
   7560. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4301397)
PHOENIX (Reuters) - An Arizona woman, in despair at the re-election of Democratic President Barack Obama, ran down her husband with the family car in suburban Phoenix on Saturday because he failed to vote in the election, police said on Monday.

Holly Solomon, 28, was arrested after running over husband Daniel Solomon following a wild chase that left him pinned underneath the vehicle.

Daniel Solomon, 36, was in critical condition at a local hospital, but is expected to survive, Gilbert police spokesman Sergeant Jesse Sanger said.

Police said Daniel Solomon told them his wife became angry over his "lack of voter participation" in last Tuesday's presidential election and believed her family would face hardship as a result of Obama winning another term.

Witnesses reported the argument broke out on Saturday morning in a parking lot and escalated. Mrs Solomon then chased her husband around the lot with the car, yelling at him as he tried to hide behind a light pole, police said. He was struck after attempting to flee to a nearby street.


Yes, but at least they're fully married.
   7561. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4301398)
Cheap bastard, making us share a two-liter bottle rather than shell out for the individual cans. By the time it gets to me, that Coke's going to be less bubbly than Murray Chass.

I can't believe you missed the chance to tie this into a Jill Kelley joke.
   7562. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4301400)
Well, it's a little too much trouble to prioritize so lets go alphabetical:

1) ATF
2) DEA
3) DHS
4) FBI
5) TSA


If we kill the ATF, DEA, DHS and TSA, and reuse to increase funding or staffing for the FBI from current levels, the FBI would probably be a functional, efficient, task oriented organization with a reasonable charter.

Someone needs to watch the watchmen, and the FBI ought to be good at telling the Georgia State Patrol or whatever "no, you may not do that just because you don't like 'darkies in your neighborhoods.'"
   7563. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4301401)
Anyone who is in a marriage and thinks their spouse has been faithful probably has a 1 in 2 or at least 1 in 3 chance of being wrong.

I've never personally seen the allure. I have a hard enough time getting *one* woman to generally leave me alone. I certainly don't need *two* women criticizing me for drinking a bottle of sherry and then napping in the hammock all afternoon while they're at work or the fact that my wardrobe is mostly the same shirt and pants in different colors.
   7564. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4301402)
Honestly, neither Broadwell nor Kelley is all that attractive, except as held up against Holly Petraeus. I mean, they're ok looking, but as far as risking your career/marriage/reputation over them - no. At least Tiger Woods, for the most part, knew to risk everything over women who were actually pretty.


Okay, let me step back over into Gayville, or Gay City, or whatever, and point out that Tiger Woods is a very attractive, superstar, multi-millionaire athlete, and David Petraeus is the guy who got picked on for picking ROTC as his elective in junior high. I mean, seriously, no need to bring in Holly here. Look at David Petraeus, the man. Remove the "great man of history" fellatio and he's really quite unattractive. I suspect his prospects, even with power and the uniform, are not quite as wide open as Tiger's.
   7565. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4301404)
The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?


Well separate from Petraeus affair is still the fact that the Director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data and hide an affair.
   7566. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4301406)
Well, it's a little too much trouble to prioritize so lets go alphabetical:

1) ATF
2) DEA
3) DHS
4) FBI
5) TSA


That's a great start, what are we going to do after lunch?
   7567. greenback calls it soccer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4301407)
We had the same conversation at work this morning. Between 4 of us, we realized we haven't collectively sent as many emails in our lives as what Kelley received from one sender.

Somebody on Twitter (Julian Sanchez maybe) suggested many of their emails were actually individual entries on Google chat. That's still a lot of texting, but it could explain what they were discussing besides detailed revisions of PPACA.
   7568. zonk Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4301409)
The director of the CIA doesn't know how to encrypt data?

I do know why anyone cares – because this is still a Puritanical country where we'd all like to believe that sex should be reserved for hetero married couples, once a year without undue noise or movement, underneath the Christmas tree after the children have been knocked unconscious by eggnog.

But that said, my rhetorical question remains, who cares? Two adults wanted to send mash notes over e-mail without their spouse(s) and/or other crush(es) finding out. I am shocked, shocked to find that eroticism is going on in this country :)


As much as I generally tend to agree --

I have come around to the idea that folks in sensitive intelligence postings probably ought to get an exception to this rule...
   7569. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4301410)
Why should the director of the CIA know how to encrypt data? He isn't a cryptographer, he is an administrator.

   7570. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4301411)
I've never personally seen the allure.


Ass on the side is an end unto itself, Dexter.
   7571. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4301413)
Why should the director of the CIA know how to encrypt data?


To hide his ass on the side, obviously.
   7572. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4301414)
Honestly, neither Broadwell nor Kelley is all that attractive, except as held up against Holly Petraeus

How quickly we forget Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky!
   7573. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4301415)
Why should the director of the CIA know how to encrypt data? He isn't a cryptographer, he is an administrator.

Yeah, but he's kind of the head. Don't want him spearheading the CIA's new campaign to encrypt data by hiding flash drives in fake electrical sockets purchased from a novelty catalog.
   7574. zonk Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4301416)
I've never personally seen the allure. I have a hard enough time getting *one* woman to generally leave me alone. I certainly don't need *two* women criticizing me for drinking a bottle of sherry and then napping in the hammock all afternoon while they're at work or the fact that my wardrobe is mostly the same shirt and pants in different colors.


Variety! Criticisms are like snowflakes, no two are ever exactly alike...
   7575. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4301418)
Criticisms are like snowflakes, no two are ever exactly alike...

That's even worse! In a long-term relationship, you have all sorts of case law to get you out of trouble.
   7576. BDC Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4301421)
I have come around to the idea that folks in sensitive intelligence postings probably ought to get an exception to this rule

If we find that he's been revealing Jason Bourne's whereabouts to his squeeze, I'll agree. If it's just OMG YOU ARE TEH HOT, then I'll be less strung out :)
   7577. Greg K Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4301425)
I have come around to the idea that folks in sensitive intelligence postings probably ought to get an exception to this rule...

If every spy movie I've ever seen is any indication, the guy who can't keep it in his pants is either feeding information to the lover, or being blackmailed into it because of the affair. And I like to think Get Smart provides an accurate portrayal of the world of espionage.

For other ways in which extra-marital affairs and foreign policy don't mix...while trying to secure an anti-Spanish alliance with the French in the 1620s the Duke of Buckingham was banging (or perhaps even worse, unsuccessfully attempting to bang) the French Queen. I think affairs are just one of those things that are win-win if you're a civilian, but tend to cause more problems than they're worth if you are in the intelligence community.
   7578. Morty Causa Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4301428)
Well, Britain did have the Profumo scandal, the prototype for all this sort of stuff.
   7579. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4301430)
Serious journalism:

The besotted Broadwell may have viewed the curvaceous Kelley as a threat. Broadwell may be able to run a six-minute mile with Petraeus, but Kelley looks like a woman who lets the guys do all the running—and in her direction.


Yeah, everyone loves a catfight, but Daly concludes with a point that contains more truth than 99% of the crap than we've seen to date:

The CIA double-no code aside, nobody could possibly believe that Petraeus would allow himself to be blackmailed into betraying the nation over an affair. But the principle of the boss adhering to the rules remained. And Clapper is said to have urged Petraeus to resign on his own terms rather than await the jackals.

Petraeus dutifully went to the White House to tender his resignation. Never mind that the Oval Office has witnessed much philandering over the decades with nobody having to resign. Never mind that Bill Clinton remains living proof of the silliness of modern puritanism. Our present president is by every indication a faithful husband, but he needed Clinton’s help to get reelected.

The fact that the resignation came immediately after the election, even though the case is said to have begun back in late May or the beginning of June, has made more than a few people wonder about the timing.

Whatever the truth in this regard, it remains pitifully ironic that Petraeus could come to such grief over a little sex under a desk in a war zone where thousands of people were and are earnestly seeking to blow other people to bloody bits. Shoot but don’t schtup?

And just because Broadwell performed the literary equivalent of sex under a desk does not mean that any actual sex is anybody’s business.

By the long-honored principle of minimization, the members of Congress who are demanding to know why they were not told earlier about Petraeus’s affair with his biographer should be asking another question.

They should instead be demanding to know why anybody outside the FBI was told anything at all.
   7580. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4301432)
I think affairs are just one of those things that are win-win if you're a civilian

Doesn't tend to work out that way.
   7581. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4301434)
Well, Britain did have the Profumo scandal, the prototype for all this sort of stuff.

Which included the classic defense of Promfumo, which was "Well, at least this was heterosexual!"
   7582. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4301436)
Also, why do people conduct affairs over email/Text message? Isn't that just hellaciously stupid?


Bingo. That, by itself, should disqualify one from any high or sensitive office on the grounds of terminal stupidity.
   7583. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4301437)
If I call myself dashing and handsome, am I going to jail?


There are laws against fraud and misrepresentation.
   7584. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4301438)

Well, there's reason to demand his resignation right there. That's pretty piss-poor crytopgraphy from a dude that's supposed to be heading the frigging CIA. Makes me wonder if someone can hack into Langley as guest/password.

bselig/bselig
   7585. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4301439)
Honestly, neither Broadwell nor Kelley is all that attractive, except as held up against Holly Petraeus


How quickly we forget Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky!

Entire forests and Twinkies factories were sacrificed to give those two their final distinctive looks. At least Broadwell isn't a size 10.

And don't forget Linda "Gus" Tripp, maybe the most frightening female ever to emerge outside of Germany in the entire 20th century.
   7586. Morty Causa Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4301441)
Bingo. That, by itself, should disqualify one from any high or sensitive office on the grounds of terminal stupidity.

Why did people write letters before--people like the frigging Duke of Wellington. Never underestimate the rationalization power of the little head over the big head. And let us all quit pretending we would be above it all.
   7587. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4301444)
And quit pretending you would be above it all.

I don't think I'm above it all, it's just that gluttony and sloth are my more typical sins of choice.

Why did people write letters before

Because you had badass big quill pens and fancy wax seals and awesome calligraphy signatures. My signature looks like it was written by a chimpanzee with Parkinson's.
   7588. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4301445)
Also, why do people conduct affairs over email/Text message? Isn't that just hellaciously stupid?


How else would one expect them to conduct said affair? Carrier pigeon?
   7589. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4301446)
I don't think I'm above it all, it's just that gluttony and sloth are my more typical sins of choice.


Somebody tell Dan that I think this is funny, and he's much better when he's being funny like this.
   7590. Greg K Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4301448)
Why did people write letters before--people like the frigging Duke of Wellington. Never underestimate the rationalization power of the little head over the big head. And quit pretending you would be above it all.

To be fair if you're someone like Horatio Nelson you are above it all, though perhaps in a different way than you mean. Win enough battles and you can sleep with whoever's wife you want. Our society sure has gone downhill since then.
   7591. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4301449)
How else would one expect them to conduct said affair? Carrier pigeon?

Admit it, that would be totally epic.
   7592. Greg K Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4301450)
Admit it, that would be totally epic.

A girl I know once carried on a correspondence with a guy that involved sending sandwiches through the mail. Her mom put a stop to it when one of them took almost a month to arrive.
   7593. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4301452)
Admit it, that would be totally epic.


Hey! I'm off ignore!

Yes. It would be epic. But probably a little weird. Sex with bird #### has got to be weird, right? We should add that to the LGBTFurries group, probably.
   7594. Morty Causa Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4301453)
In our early history, a Founding Father, Alexander Hamilton, had his moment between illicit sheets that came to public scandal.
   7595. hokieneer Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4301455)
   7596. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4301456)

How else would one expect them to conduct said affair? Carrier pigeon?


No, silly.
   7597. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4301459)
Hey! I'm off ignore!

I like you when there's no election going on - took you off last week.
   7598. Morty Causa Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4301460)
In William Manchester's great biography of Churchill,The Last Lion, Vol.I, Visions of Glory, there's a wonderful set piece at the beginning that beautifully sets out the thorough-going promiscuity of the English upper class. They'd all meet at someone's huge castle, and when they retired for the night they would pair up with someone not their spouse, and in the morning a factotum would sound a gong so that everyone would return to their respective rooms to present a public face at breakfast..
   7599. JL Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4301461)
Somebody on Twitter (Julian Sanchez maybe) suggested many of their emails were actually individual entries on Google chat. That's still a lot of texting, but it could explain what they were discussing besides detailed revisions of PPACA.

Also, it is worth remembering that it is 30,000 pages, as opposed to messages. If Kelley and Allen are hitting reply to each message, then they can quickly build to 5-10 pages per message or more. That adds up quickly if they keep every iteration of the email chain. It is still a huge amount of emails, but over a 2-3 year period (I understand it is since 2010), it becomes a bit more reasonable.

Never mind - I see that reports are now that there are 20-30k documents.
   7600. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4301463)
Tolerance

That link leads to a petition to....

Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them

Man, my pool playing buddy may be in trouble, since he just sent me this e-mail a few hours ago:

now obama is dictating to private enterprise and you wonder why NOW 23 states want to succeed , I will be right with them


and then followed up with another e-mail that contained only this link:

White House website deluged with secession petitions from 20 states

The poor guy had been thinking of moving to Florida, but now he's at a loss.
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