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Monday, November 19, 2012

Outfielder Juan Pierre returns to Miami Marlins

The Miami Marlins and Juan Pierre have reunited.

The free agent outfielder agreed to a one-year, $1.6 million deal with the Marlins, according to multiple sources.

Pierre, 35, was a integral part of the Marlins 2003 World Championship team before it was dismantled.

The speedster spent 2012 with the Philadelphia Phillies where he batted .307 with 37 stolen bases in 130 games.

Pierre, a former teammate of Miami manager Mike Redmond, played for the Marlins from 2003 to 2005. He set the franchise single-season stolen base record of 65 in 2003.

Thanks to Los.

Repoz Posted: November 19, 2012 at 06:12 AM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: marlins

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Cooper Nielson Posted: November 19, 2012 at 07:20 AM (#4305781)
IS THIS THE MOVE THAT GETS THEM INTO THE PLAYOFFS?!?!
   2. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: November 19, 2012 at 07:30 AM (#4305784)
In a related story, the Miami Marlins have traded Juan Pierre to Seattle in exchange for $37 and a fungo bat.
   3. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2012 at 08:30 AM (#4305785)
I'm sure he's popular in Miami, and the object here is to try to win back fans.

Somehow, I doubt this will be sufficient...
   4. Lassus Posted: November 19, 2012 at 08:30 AM (#4305786)
Who won that one in the free agent prediction contest?
   5. asinwreck Posted: November 19, 2012 at 09:29 AM (#4305791)
Does this Turn Back the Clock move mean Scott Podsednick heads back to Milwaukee?
   6. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 19, 2012 at 09:47 AM (#4305796)
Pierre has posted an average of 1.5 war the last 4 seasons and put up a 1.7 war last season. He's deserving of a MLB roster spot and is a decent signing at that price.
   7. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 19, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4305798)
I was very pleasantly pleased with Juan Pierre as a Phillie last year. I wish him tremendous success vs. the Nats, Mets and Braves.
   8. Matthew E Posted: November 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4305801)
Now that they've got Pierre, that makes Stanton superfluous, right?
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4305804)
BRING BACK JEFF CONINE
   10. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: November 19, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4305815)
Veteran leadership, the last piece of the puzzle.
   11. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4305824)
Pierre has posted an average of 1.5 war the last 4 seasons and put up a 1.7 war last season. He's deserving of a MLB roster spot and is a decent signing at that price.


Plus, in Miami, he'll get to play every day.
   12. zonk Posted: November 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM (#4305826)
Derek Lee would listen if Miami called.

   13. DL from MN Posted: November 19, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4305847)
Luis Castillo is only 37
   14. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4305848)
One or more Alex Gonzalezes are are available.
   15. RJ in TO Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4305857)
Luis Castillo is only 37

This is significantly younger than I would have guessed.
   16. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4305858)
Scott Proctor is available and has unfinished business.
   17. Bourbon Samurai Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4305874)
This is a perfectly good signing. Juan Pierre is a decent player, and carries some name value.

I am a little surprised Derek Lee retired when he did.
   18. McCoy Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4305877)
Juan Pierre has name value? Who goes to a game or buys a jersey because of Juan Pierre? His mom?
   19. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4305879)
Plus, in Miami, he'll get to play every day.

He played 130 games in Philadelphia last year (starting 98). And 158 last year. And 160 the year before. It's kind of baffling how much playing time he gets. I assumed he's been a 4th OF for a long time, but he only started playing less than part-time last year with the Phillies. He was injured in 2008, but otherwise has been healthy and starting almost his entire career.
   20. Cooper Nielson Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4305880)
Pierre has posted an average of 1.5 war the last 4 seasons and put up a 1.7 war last season. He's deserving of a MLB roster spot and is a decent signing at that price.

Baseball-Reference WAR has him at an average of just 0.6 for the past 4 seasons. Their defensive numbers are very different from Fangraphs'.
   21. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4305885)
He played 130 games in Philadelphia last year (starting 98). And 158 last year. And 160 the year before. It's kind of baffling how much playing time he gets. I assumed he's been a 4th OF for a long time, but he only started playing less than part-time last year with the Phillies. He was injured in 2008, but otherwise has been healthy and starting almost his entire career.


One result is that if he's healthy he'll probably be over 2300 hits at the end of the season. 3000 seems out of reach, but it's possible to imagine him retiring with something approaching Johnny Damon's 2769 hits.
   22. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4305887)
He played 130 games in Philadelphia last year (starting 98). And 158 last year. And 160 the year before. It's kind of baffling how much playing time he gets. I assumed he's been a 4th OF for a long time, but he only started playing less than part-time last year with the Phillies. He was injured in 2008, but otherwise has been healthy and starting almost his entire career.


Wow! I'm surprised to hear that--I know he played regularly last year due to injuries/trade, but would have sworn he'd been a part-timer with the White Sox and Dodgers.
   23. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: November 19, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4305898)
Now that they've got Pierre, that makes Stanton superfluous, right?


HA.
   24. PreservedFish Posted: November 19, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4305926)
How often does Pierre think about reaching 3,000 hits?
   25. phredbird Posted: November 19, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4305930)
geez, the dodgers were still paying him money ($3.5m) in 2011 ... :(
   26. UCCF Posted: November 19, 2012 at 01:53 PM (#4305967)
The quest for 3000 hits continues. I hope he gets there, just to see what the general reaction is.
   27. Spahn Insane Posted: November 19, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4305998)
I know he played regularly last year due to injuries/trade, but would have sworn he'd been a part-timer with the White Sox and Dodgers.

You don't sign Juan Pierre for 5 years (!) to make him a fourth outfielder, by Jove.
   28. alilisd Posted: November 19, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4306006)
Wow! I'm surprised to hear that--I know he played regularly last year due to injuries/trade, but would have sworn he'd been a part-timer with the White Sox and Dodgers.


He was a part time player with the dodgers, once they figured out he wasn't worth playing full time and picked up Manny. He started only 71 and 76 games his 2nd and 3rd seasons there, but Ozzie played him everyday. He has been a part time player in 3 of the past 5 seasons with his two in Chicago being the aberration.
   29. alilisd Posted: November 19, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4306008)
The quest for 3000 hits continues. I hope he gets there, just to see what the general reaction is


He doesn't stand a snow ball's chance in hades of getting there. He's averaged about 115 hits since becoming a part time OF, which would get him there part way through his age 42 season, with no decline. The only reason he played full time for the White Sox was because it only cost them $5 million for the two years thanks to the dodgers largesse, but he'll never have that opportunity again.
   30. Dan Posted: November 19, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4306036)
but he'll never have that opportunity again


Who's standing in the way of him playing full time next season? Bryan Petersen? Gorkys Hernandez? I expect he starts 120+ games again.
   31. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: November 19, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4306057)
The math is against Pierre and 3000 hits. Even if he hits at his career .297 average, he needs 2758 more at bats (ABs, not PAs) to get 3000 hits. He's averaging 4.16 ABs per start for his career, so at that rate he needs 663 more games while getting hits at his career average. That's four years of 150 starts plus 63 more games. IOW, Pierre has to remain as a starter almost until his 40th birthday and hit at his career average until that point. He could also lose some BA and/or lose some playing time and hang around until he's 43 or something, but does he really seem good enough to do that?
   32. phredbird Posted: November 19, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4306068)
hang around until he's 43 or something, but does he really seem good enough to do that?


well, he's morphed from a player into some sort of virus, so i guess he could hang around.
   33. alilisd Posted: November 19, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4306111)
Who's standing in the way of him playing full time next season? Bryan Petersen? Gorkys Hernandez?


Yes, and any of the other six OF on their 40 man roster, then throw in Christian Yelich and Marcell Ozuna. I think they have a couple of Ball Girls and a member of their cheer squad who used to play OF, too.
   34. Spectral Posted: November 19, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4306206)
For what it's worth, the Bill James favorite toy pegs him as having a 28 percent shot at getting to 3,000. I think that probably overstates it, and I don't think he'll get there, but it's sure not out of the question. If he keeps his speed, someone will want to keep his veteranness around.
   35. zonk Posted: November 19, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4306224)
I played an OOTP dynasty where, as I rebuilt the Cubs system, I snagged every veteran near a milestone for a couple seasons...

Fell just short -- ~75 hits -- of getting Damon to 3000.

Jamie Moyer retired at 287 wins (I resigned him to his age 51 season, but he retired instead).

I did get Vlad to 500 HRs, Omar Vizquel to 3000 hits, I-Rod to 3000 hits, though.
   36. Dale Sams Posted: November 19, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4306268)
Josh Beckett is a FA in 2014 right?
   37. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 19, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4306280)

Livan Hernandez is, remarkably, only 37.
   38. alilisd Posted: November 19, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4306301)
For what it's worth, the Bill James favorite toy pegs him as having a 28 percent shot at getting to 3,000. I think that probably overstates it, and I don't think he'll get there, but it's sure not out of the question. If he keeps his speed, someone will want to keep his veteranness around.


I think it overstates it by a wide margin and it is pretty much entirely out of the question at this point. Damon, a much better player all throughout his career, was 129 hits closer at the end of his age 34 season and could barely find a job this year. No one is going to give Pierre a full time job just for him to chase 3,000 and you don't get there just by hanging around.

There have been 39 guys to get at least 850 hits after turning 35, Pierre needs 859, but most of them were legitimately great players or guys who also DH'ed some. Pierre does not meet either of those criteria. Even if you include the two years in Chicago, which I still contend were an aberration, he's only averaged 140 hits a year over the past five years. He'd need to do that for another 6 years to get to 3,000. Do you honestly see playing for another six years, let alone continuing to get that level of playing time and experiencing no decline in performance?
   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 19, 2012 at 09:18 PM (#4306352)
Juan Pierre has name value? Who goes to a game or buys a jersey because of Juan Pierre? His mom?


French-Canadians?
   40. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 19, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4306361)
French-Canadians?


Isn't it French-Mexicans who are his target demographic?

And I'm with alilsd. Juan Pierre, as much as I love that slappy little bastard, has no chance at 3,000 hits.
   41. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: November 19, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4306376)
point. Damon, a much better player all throughout his career, was 129 hits closer at the end of his age 34 season and could barely find a job thi


Isn't Damon a pretty good illustration of James's observation that players retire not because they can't hit anymore, but because they can't play defense anymore? If Damon could still play a decent outfield, he'd have had a much better chance of holding on in some capacity. But he was pretty much a DH by 2011, and couldn't hit enough to stick. So I don't think it's a given, yet, that Damon was a better player throughout his career, as Pierre can still sort of play an OF position. I don't think he comes close to 3000, but don't overrate the case for Damon's twighlight.
   42. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 20, 2012 at 12:06 AM (#4306529)
Isn't it French-Mexicans who are his target demographic?


Not for the jersey market. Only the last name on the back and all.
   43. alilisd Posted: November 20, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4306824)
Isn't Damon a pretty good illustration of James's observation that players retire not because they can't hit anymore, but because they can't play defense anymore? If Damon could still play a decent outfield, he'd have had a much better chance of holding on in some capacity.


Could be, I hadn't thought about it. I think it's true, it sounds true, if he were more of an option in the OF, he'd have a better chance at a job, but bWAR doesn't think he's a bad OF although I think everyone agrees he has no arm (but then neither does Pierre). bWAR also thinks he's still a good baserunner and he's clearly still a good, though no prolific, base stealer. It would seem if he can still run, he can still play the OF. He can definitely still hit, unless last year was his true talent dropping from OPS+ of around 110 all the way to 73, but maybe he's not what teams think of when they think DH. Not enough of a bopper?

So I don't think it's a given, yet, that Damon was a better player throughout his career, as Pierre can still sort of play an OF position.


Damon regularly had seasons of around 115 OPS+, 11 over 100 and is at 104 for his career. Pierre has only two seasons over 100 and is at 85 for his career. Damon is better on the bases, about 400 steals at an 80% success rate and 76 Rbaser. Pierre has more steals, 591 to 408, but at a lower success rate, 75%, and is only at 52 Rbaser. Damon would have to be a much worse defender than Pierre for Juan to even get close and Rfield likes Damon better than Pierre. Not seeing Pierre even close to Damon and 52.1 Career WAR to 15.3 bares that out.
   44. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 20, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4306862)

Pierre actually was popular with the Haitian community in South Florida during his first stint there. Even though he's not Haitian, many of the fans assumed he was due to his last name.

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