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Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Ozzie Guillen fires on White Sox

More than a tired Cooper to drive on…a tired Cooper to depend on?

Guillen said Monday that he was thrilled with the hiring of former teammate Robin Ventura as the Sox’ new manager and was happy that chairman Jerry Reinsdorf found the right guy, but what Cooper said was inexcusable in his eyes.

Higher road be damned.

“Cooper needs to look in the mirror,’’ Guillen told the Sun-Times. “He didn’t backstab me. I know who he is. He backstabbed his fellow coaches, the guys he worked with for years. You got family? That’s fine. Everyone does. We all knew Coop was Kenny’s b——.

“Look, Coop is not a good coach; he’s a great coach. But Coop is Coop. He doesn’t worry about anyone; he worries about himself. I stuck up for my coaches like a m—————-.

“I told [the Sox] I want to keep my coaching staff, and I never lied to the media. I talked to Jerry Reinsdorf maybe five times [about extending the coaches’ contracts over the years]. The reason I was so comfortable with the Sox was the coaches. Let them sweat it out? Coop was Kenny’s guy, and my staff knew that. We all know what he really is.’’

Repoz Posted: October 18, 2011 at 01:07 AM | 37 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: announcers, media, television, white sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: October 18, 2011 at 01:57 AM (#3966818)
Aww, you didn't include the money quote:

“Since last year, this was about integrity, it was about loyalty, it was about do they want me here. Let me say it my way: The Sox were saying, ‘Yes, we want to f--- you, but we don’t want to marry you.’?’’
   2. Banta Posted: October 18, 2011 at 02:12 AM (#3966831)
So I read stuff like this, then I think about the Marlins new uniforms and homerun statue and I think, "what the hell are the Marlins going for here?" Then I smile because I honestly can't answer the question.
   3. Kiko Sakata Posted: October 18, 2011 at 02:28 AM (#3966845)
We all knew Coop was Kenny’s b——....

Coop was Kenny’s guy, and my staff knew that. We all know what he really is.


I'm looking forward to seeing what Kenny Williams does now that Ozzie's gone. I kind of got the sense that Kenny spent a lot of time giving Ozzie what he wanted - Juan Pierre, the no-DH thing in 2010. I'll be curious to see what kind of team Kenny assembles now that it's clearly his team. If Don Cooper was a Kenny guy, not an Ozzie guy that speaks really well of Kenny. Cooper might be the best pitching coach in MLB.
   4. Darren Posted: October 18, 2011 at 02:50 AM (#3966863)
Why is this guy tolerated in the year 2011? Homophobic jerk who's offensive on other levels as well.
   5. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 18, 2011 at 02:58 AM (#3966867)
Why is this guy tolerated in the year 2011? Homophobic jerk who's offensive on other levels as well.


So you're a racist are you?
   6. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:08 AM (#3966872)
I don't really follow the Ozzie threads, what homophobic statement did he make?
   7. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:15 AM (#3966882)
In today's world simply using the word "fag" or the word "gay" improperly makes you homophobic.
   8. Darren Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:21 AM (#3966886)
Yes, using those words as insults would make you homophobic.

As for Ozzie's he's used similar slurs.
   9. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:27 AM (#3966892)
“Cooper needs to look in the mirror,’’ Guillen told the Sun-Times.

The Sun Times? Gee, I wonder who Ozzie was talking to?

Speaking of looking in the mirror, how about this quote:

Look, Coop is not a good coach; he’s a great coach. But Coop is Coop. He doesn’t worry about anyone; he worries about himself.

Look, Ozzie is not a good manager; he's a great manager. But Ozzie is Ozzie. He doesn't worry about anyone; he worries about himself.
   10. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:31 AM (#3966898)
Yes, using those words as insults would make you homophobic.

See?
   11. Walt Davis Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:34 AM (#3966904)
I stuck up for my coaches like a —————-.

Gene Rayburn: "Ozzie, what did you write down."

Ozzie: "I wrote '############'"

Charles Nelson Reilly: "Sorry, dear, I wrote down 'flagpole'"

we want to ---- you, but we don’t want to marry you

Gene Rayburn: "Ozzie, what have you got for us."

Ozzie: "I went with '####', Mr. Rayburn."

Gene Rayburn: "Well, if you're going to #### me, you can call me Gene. Richard?"

Richard Dawson: "Trust me, this will save you a lot of time in the end ... 'divorce'"

See you next week on Match Game Deportes!
   12. Kurt Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#3966909)
   13. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:46 AM (#3966917)
Why is this guy tolerated in the year 2011?


Because he ain't white.
   14. KT's Pot Arb Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:33 AM (#3966947)
Yes, using those words as insults would make you homophobic.


I'm confused, I'm pretty sure gay men use those words in a variety of different ways that also extends to insults. Does that make them self-hating homosexuals or homophobic homos?

Can you call a heterosexual man a "fag" without being a homophobe?

What if you are saying it to get a dig at a guy who is actually a homophobe?

For example let's say you call a conservative christian Rick Perry supporting, anti-gay marriage marcher a "faggot" because you believe in gay rights and treating gay people the same as you would treat anyone else. Are you a homophobe?
   15. Ryan Lind Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:57 AM (#3966958)
Sun-Times: Ozzie Guillen wom wom wom wom

wom wom wom wom wom wom wom Ozzie Guillen wom wom wom wom wom wom Ozzie wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom Ozzie wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom wom Ozzie Guillen wom wom wom wom
   16. Halofan Posted: October 18, 2011 at 06:26 AM (#3966976)
Heterophobic thread.
   17. Greg K Posted: October 18, 2011 at 07:43 AM (#3966987)
Can you call a heterosexual man a "fag" without being a homophobe?

Only if he says something faggy, like "people from Phoenix and Phoenicians".
   18. KT's Pot Arb Posted: October 18, 2011 at 09:49 AM (#3966993)
Can you call a heterosexual man a "fag" without being a homophobe?

Only if he says something faggy, like "people from Phoenix and Phoenicians".


Phoenix? What are you smoking? Men from Phoenix are muy macho!

I'm from Scottsdale, not as macho, but way classier. I guarantee none of those "Phoenician" cowboys have a pair of bright pink chaps as pretty as mine! Oh yes, let me also point out that we are as gay as Brits in Scottsdale, yea haw!
   19. Greg K Posted: October 18, 2011 at 10:54 AM (#3966997)
Phoenix? What are you smoking? Men from Phoenix are muy macho!

It's not the people from Phoenix that are faggy, it's people who say "people from Phoenix are Phoenicians" that are faggy.

In any event it's a Louis CK reference as his bit on the word faggot always seems relevant (whether you agree or not) to these threads.
   20. Greg K Posted: October 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM (#3966998)
   21. Lassus Posted: October 18, 2011 at 11:23 AM (#3967004)
Ah, the "How come this minority can use this word for themselves that the majority can't" argument. A stupid classic.
   22. Greg Schuler Posted: October 18, 2011 at 12:35 PM (#3967023)
As Jim Brewer says, it's just a word...for a bunch of sticks (or cigarettes).
   23. UCCF Posted: October 18, 2011 at 02:08 PM (#3967098)
As Jim Brewer says, it's just a word...for a bunch of sticks (or cigarettes).

Also, a bassoon.
   24. Eddo Posted: October 18, 2011 at 02:25 PM (#3967107)
In today's world simply using the word "fag" or the word "gay" improperly makes you homophobic.

If by "improperly", you mean "in a way that insinuates that 'fag' is a bad thing to be", then yes.

If I went around calling every stupid person I met a "McCoy"(*), you wouldn't be offended by it? It would be implying that all actual McCoys are lesser people. That's a problem.

The word "fag", by itself, isn't homophobic. At least I don't think so. I would never call a gay person a fag, because I try to be nice to others and I wouldn't want them to think I was insulting them. Like it or not, the word is loaded with history, and some people do take offense to it.

(*) NOTE - this is an example, I think you're quite intelligent, McCoy.

EDIT: After reading VA's initial post on this topic, maybe "homophobic" isn't the right word. It's insulting to gay people if you use the word fag to deride someone who isn't gay; maybe "anti-homosexual" is the better term? I don't know, I'm not great with language.
   25. hokieneer Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:04 PM (#3967167)
In any event it's a Louis CK reference as his bit on the word faggot always seems relevant (whether you agree or not) to these threads.

Eminem said practically the same thing 10 years ago. He was obviously not as articulate or as funny.

South Park has a great episode on the word fag
   26. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:11 PM (#3967178)
If I went around calling every stupid person I met a "McCoy"(*), you wouldn't be offended by it? It would be implying that all actual McCoys are lesser people. That's a problem.

I wouldn't think you were afraid of me.
   27. Eddo Posted: October 18, 2011 at 03:55 PM (#3967249)
I wouldn't think you were afraid of me.

Yeah, see my edit.

The point isn't so much a literal interpretation of the word "homophobe"; it's more that using the terms in such a way is offensive.

I'll ask again: wouldn't you be offended if I went around insulting people by calling them "McCoys"? That's the issue, not that I'd be a "McCoy-phobe".
   28. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:03 PM (#3967261)
I'll ask again: wouldn't you be offended if I went around insulting people by calling them "McCoys"? That's the issue, not that I'd be a "McCoy-phobe".

If you went around calling people white because I am white I would laugh at it. There is a differenc between individual and group. By calling people McCoy you would be attacking me directly which is different than if you were attacking some group you think I fit into.


On a semi related side note. I almost literally ran into Jesse Jackson the other day. I was looking one way to see if I could recognize anyone known from the MLB and he was looking the other way and only at the last second did we both turn our heads to see that the other one was coming right at them. I joked to other people that Jesse said to me "Honky, get out of my way" and funnily enough several people actually believed he said that to me.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:07 PM (#3967267)
I joked to other people that Jesse said to me "Honky, get out of my way" and funnily enough several people actually believed he said that to me.

Well, since "Hymie-town" didn't seem to hurt his career, why not.
   30. Eddo Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:09 PM (#3967270)
That's fair, McCoy. Using your name is a poor example.

A better example would be a sub-group you identify yourself as part of. An ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Hell, what if the term "Cubfan" was used in a derogatory way?

------

I don't mean to get into a big argument here. Our society is a bit too sensitive in some ways, yes. But you also have to realize there are certain words that are loaded and can cause offense. And if you're in the public eye, the way Guillen is, you shouldn't be surprised when people take offense to such words.
   31. bunyon Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:17 PM (#3967281)
Hell, what if the term "Cubfan" was used in a derogatory way?

In what other way could it be used?
   32. DL from MN Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:24 PM (#3967292)
"what the hell are the Marlins going for here?"


I don't know but it might be as entertaining as the Charlie Finley A's with Guillen filling in for Billy Martin.
   33. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2011 at 04:30 PM (#3967297)
But you also have to realize there are certain words that are loaded and can cause offense.

I don't disagree that this is true though I do think it shouldn't be true.

Hell, what if the term "Cubfan" was used in a derogatory way?


Like Bunyon joked it is used that way all the time. Hell, RETARDO just trolled a Cubs' thread using pretty much that tactic. I just let it roll off my back.

And if you're in the public eye, the way Guillen is, you shouldn't be surprised when people take offense to such words.

I'm not surprised I expect it. But again that doesn't mean I agree with it nor do I agree with mislabeling the slanderer with a slander. Calling someone a homophobe is an insult and I don't see why using that word incorrectly gets a pass but using the word gay incorrectly can get you fired or at least have you taking heat.
   34. Bob Evans Posted: October 18, 2011 at 05:56 PM (#3967410)
Calling someone a homophobe is an insult and I don't see why using that word incorrectly gets a pass

When does this happen? I'm curious. It's kind of a matter of opinion, right?
   35. McCoy Posted: October 18, 2011 at 05:59 PM (#3967415)
People are calling Ozzie Guillen a homophobe. Is that meant as a compliment?
   36. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: October 18, 2011 at 07:14 PM (#3967493)
I suspect we wouldn't get so uppity about Guillen's racism and use of derogatory terms if most people could get away with acting as he does.
   37. Bob Evans Posted: October 18, 2011 at 09:21 PM (#3967627)
People are calling Ozzie Guillen a homophobe. Is that meant as a compliment?

No, sorry, I meant, when is it used incorrectly?

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