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Tuesday, July 06, 2010

Pablo Sandoval and Edgar Renteria leave haunted Milwaukee hotel

Pablo: If you see a pair of cleats go flyin’ through the air, don’t grab ‘em.
Edgar: Why not?
Pablo: I’ll be in ‘em!

You can add Pablo Sandoval and Edgar Renteria to the list.

Milwaukee’s historic Pfister Hotel is a hit with tourists, but continues to strike out with Major League Baseball players.  Sandoval and Renteria left the Giants team hotel and checked in at another property down the street.

Why?  Ghosts.

The 117-year old hotel is said to be haunted.  Several players from other teams, including Adrian Beltre, have reported strange sounds during the night while staying at the Pfister.

While Sandoval and Renteria room elsewhere, the other Giants are just fine.  In fact, the struggling team picked up a much needed win on Monday, beating the Brewers 6-1.

Repoz Posted: July 06, 2010 at 10:11 AM | 168 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, special topics

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   1. Gamingboy Posted: July 06, 2010 at 10:24 AM (#3579285)
....Who they gonna call?
   2. Lassus Posted: July 06, 2010 at 11:32 AM (#3579291)
I hear Shooty has Ghost Hunter ambitions.
   3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 12:03 PM (#3579297)
Several players from other teams, including Adrian Beltre, have reported strange sounds during the night while staying at the Pfister.


Reminds me of the time the Brewers booked a stay in the hotel hosting AnthroCon during a road trip to Pittsburgh. There were a fair number of complaints about strange sounds that day, too... though of a different sort, I'd imagine.
   4. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 01:09 PM (#3579325)
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 01:22 PM (#3579331)
I'd love to see an episode of Scooby Doo and the San Francisco Giants.


A g-g-g-g-ghost?
   6. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:05 PM (#3579361)
Why do teams still stay there and risk spooking some of their more, um, sensitive players?
   7. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:14 PM (#3579368)
Pfister? I barely...
   8. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:28 PM (#3579381)
Der:

It's considered one of the best in Milwaukee.

(Insert required crack regarding best of anything in Milwaukee being a doghouse elsewhere)
   9. PerroX Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:33 PM (#3579385)
All hotels are haunted - I cant sleep in any of 'em.
   10. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:36 PM (#3579389)
There is no such things as ghosts goddammit.
   11. RJ in TO Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:37 PM (#3579391)
The best in Milwaukee? Isn't being the best in Milwaukee a lot like being a.... Oh, I see you've covered that already.

While the Pfister hotel may be considered the best in Milwaukee, is it really that much of a difference between the best and the second best, or at least enough of a difference to make it worthwhile to put up with these sort of things? I'm assuming the relative levels are Pfister - small gap - second best, and not Pfister - big gap - second best.
   12. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:38 PM (#3579392)
This story/theme is written at least once a year by road team media, and I think I've read about it and at least 3 autobiographies. I stay there a few times a year, as do most of our clients when they visit our home office, have never heard any haunted stories.
   13. RJ in TO Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:38 PM (#3579394)
There is no such things as ghosts goddammit.

Are you sure? That Ghost Hunters show seems to be haunting your thoughts.
   14. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:42 PM (#3579397)
I think vets are playing games with the younger guys on the team known to be susceptible to such nonsense.

I know that used to happen. Figure it still does.
   15. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:42 PM (#3579398)
Are you sure? That Ghost Hunters show seems to be haunting your thoughts.

Those idiots have proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that ghosts do not exist.
   16. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 02:47 PM (#3579402)
While the Pfister hotel may be considered the best in Milwaukee, is it really that much of a difference between the best and the second best, or at least enough of a difference to make it worthwhile to put up with these sort of things? I'm assuming the relative levels are Pfister - small gap - second best, and not Pfister - big gap - second best.


pretty much the case. Pfister, Hotel Metro, IronHorse (love that place) and a couple others are probably on par, though the Pfister does have pretty cool mystique about the place, the lobby is timeless.

IIRC, a couple teams stay at the Hyatt (a site where Teddy Roosevelt was shot out front and across the street from the 'birthplace of the American League'). I even recall the Expos used to stay in a suburban Marriott years ago (according to the media guide) which made no ####### sense.

Harveys could correct me if wrong, but I've read where Casey Stengel made his team stay out on cottages in Browns Lake during the '57/'58 WS to keep Mickey and other away from the booze and broads.
   17. Weeks T. Olive Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:06 PM (#3579426)
Pfister, Hotel Metro, IronHorse (love that place) and a couple others are probably on par, though the Pfister does have pretty cool mystique about the place, the lobby is timeless.

Yeah, kinda surprised teams aren't staying at the Iron Horse, given that it's newer/trendier and is an easier commute to Miller (EDIT: as in "right down the street"; not that it's a trek from the Pfister to Miller or anything).
   18. Spahn Insane Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:11 PM (#3579432)
Sandoval and Renteria left the Giants team hotel and checked in at another property down the street.

Why? Ghosts.


They don't practice Renteria.
   19. Bunny Vincennes Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:15 PM (#3579439)
Weeks,

I have to believe that teams will start transitioning to the Iron Horse. Its proximity to the ballpark is a no brainer, and its a delightful place. I highly recommend it to anyone who needs lodging in MKE.

Edited to add, this is coming from a ridiculous hotel snob.
   20. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:34 PM (#3579466)
I have to believe that teams will start transitioning to the Iron Horse. Its proximity to the ballpark is a no brainer, and its a delightful place. I highly recommend it to anyone who needs lodging in MKE.


Rarely will you stay in a non-resort/beach like setting, and be handed a cocktail by the front desk when you check-in. Only downer is it isn't pedestrian friendly.
   21. PerroX Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:39 PM (#3579476)
Ghosts are as real as you and me.
   22. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:43 PM (#3579479)
I am unbelievably unreal.
   23. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:48 PM (#3579483)
Have we ever had a ghost derailment? Does the paranormal divide along party lines?

I lived in a haunted house for three years. Well, I don't believe in ghosts but so many things happened I told people it was haunted - then my guests started to notice things to. It bugged my wife I kept blaming things on ghosts. The highlight was, ironically enough, when we were broken into. The cop stood around the room and pointed out that items were taken in one part of the room but not others. "Something spooked him" he said to me. I turned to my wife with "KNOW do you believe me".

Sadly I was able to debunk all of the mysterious occurences. The final mystery - hearing footsteps on the empty mainfloor when we were in the basement - was solved on my last day in the house. For some reason when big trucks drove by on my very busy street the "shaking" was noticeable in the basement - though it sounded like someone was upstairs. That one stumped me the whole time I lived there.
   24. Jose Canusee Posted: July 06, 2010 at 03:56 PM (#3579491)
"I'd love to see an episode of Scooby Doo and the San Francisco Giants. "
Timmy is already driving the van. Zito is in the back playing guitar.

"Pablo: If you see a pair of cleats go flyin’ through the air, don’t grab ‘em."
Kung Fu Panda in the rocket-powered chair!
   25. PerroX Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:15 PM (#3579513)
I'm skeptical regarding paranormal explanations..but equally skeptical of commonsense ones. Reality will always resist comprehension on a conceptual level. A map can never account for the off-road experience.
   26. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:19 PM (#3579518)
Of course there are ghosts. Some people see them, some do not. Cats see them though.
   27. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:23 PM (#3579527)
Of course there are ghosts. Some people see them, some do not. Cats see them though.

Do you see them? Or do you rely on updates from your cat?
   28. PerroX Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:23 PM (#3579529)
I came across a parcel of ghosts yesterday going through a collection of cards, letters and journals from my youth. I always want to toss them out, esp the love letters from my ex and the 20+ year-old journals that embarrassingly reveal the circular nature of my path through life, but I pack them away again for another day as a reminder that progress is an illusion - time doesnt exist outside of mind.
   29. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:24 PM (#3579530)
Yes, I have seen ghosts. A couple. Heard them too.
   30. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:25 PM (#3579533)
Yes, I have seen ghosts. A couple. Heard them too.

That was the sound of your colon.
   31. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:26 PM (#3579534)
I said ghosts, not demons.
   32. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:27 PM (#3579535)
I saw a leprechaun once hiding in a tree.
   33. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:27 PM (#3579536)
Have we ever had a ghost derailment? Does the paranormal divide along party lines?

Of course it does.
   34. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:32 PM (#3579546)
I saw a leprechaun once hiding in a tree.

That was only because someone told David Samson there was a dollar up there.
   35. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:33 PM (#3579548)
Leprechauns don't exist.
   36. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:34 PM (#3579549)
Leprechauns don't exist.

What about ghoulies?
   37. RJ in TO Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:37 PM (#3579555)
What about ghoulies?

Bernal is here. Do you need any further evidence?
   38. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:41 PM (#3579561)
I have actually been to two of the most haunted locations in the US and haven't seen a thing. Oddly enough I saw a ghost at the mall and one at the park. Both times they were the same people. I also believe that ghosts can talk to you through your dreams.
   39. phredbird Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:41 PM (#3579562)
it's a trap.

that's all i got, i'm tired after a long weekend in palm springs.
   40. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:45 PM (#3579564)
I have actually been to two of the most haunted locations in the US and haven't seen a thing. Oddly enough I saw a ghost at the mall and one at the park. Both times they were the same people. I also believe that ghosts can talk to you through your dreams.


I still think you are f*cking with us but I am too curious to not indulge. Putting the cat and the dreams aside for a moment - please tell us more about the mall and the park.
   41. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:50 PM (#3579571)
Oh I am not ####### with you at all. I 100% believe in ghosts. Without going into too much detail my wife's grandmother was the ghost and I saw her plain as day. No misty apparition or anything like that. It was a couple of weeks apart during a very trying time in my life. She had always been a very steadying person and I think she appeared to give me hope and have more faith in things.

As for the cats, you know how they act kind of crazy sometimes like they see #### that isn't there? Ghosts.


The two haunted places were the Mansfield Reformatory and the Athens Lunatic Asylum.
   42. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:51 PM (#3579572)
Also ask anyone in the lounge and they will vouch for my belief in ghosts. I have spoken about it a few times in there.
   43. PerroX Posted: July 06, 2010 at 04:53 PM (#3579577)
it's a trap.

Exactly.

From the link in 33:

..believe in the presence of spiritual energy in physical objects

The problem here is the 'traditional' separation of reality into separate, physical objects. As that belief system breaks down, 'spiritual' beliefs are applied to fill the gap instead of ditching the persistent fiction of separation.

Physical objects are bundles of energy interacting with other bundles of energy. No independent object 'out there' exists on its own.
   44. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:01 PM (#3579590)
Oh I am not ####### with you at all. I 100% believe in ghosts. Without going into too much detail my wife's grandmother was the ghost and I saw her plain as day. No misty apparition or anything like that. It was a couple of weeks apart during a very trying time in my life. She had always been a very steadying person and I think she appeared to give me hope and have more faith in things.

I see no reason to dismiss the possibility of ghosts, or angels, or demons appearing to people. I would say that most alleged apparitions are likely falsified, or have other explanations. However, there is a lot of solid evidence around posession by demons (see "An Exorcist tells his Story", Gabriele Amorth for one good set of examples).

It amuses that people will see string theory and multi-verses (hundreds of parallel universes) as legitimate science, but dismiss spiritual aparitions or messengers out of hand.
   45. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:08 PM (#3579601)
Have we ever had a ghost derailment? Does the paranormal divide along party lines?

Of course it does.
So Democrats/Liberals are almost twice as likely to believe in ghosts as Republicans/Conservatives? Wow. And also twice as likely, roughly, to believe in the various "New Age" beliefs, like astrology, reincarnation, etc. 36% of Democrats are in touch with the dead? Egads.
   46. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:15 PM (#3579610)
Oddly enough their is a long history of ghosts in Christian belief.
   47. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:16 PM (#3579612)
As someone who has observed the passage of time and its impact on belief systems, UFO sightings and ghost sightings took a real hit as imaging technology advanced.

Folks used ghosts, etc the same way some around here toss around the word 'luck'. It is to explain things they cannot understand or cannot take the time to figure out.
   48. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:17 PM (#3579617)
That creaking sound they heard in the night was actually the bone chips in Edgar's elbow...
   49. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:19 PM (#3579621)
There's a long history of a lot of things in Christian belief.

Tim Minchin neatly summarises my views.
   50. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:22 PM (#3579625)
However, there is a lot of solid evidence around posession by demons (see "An Exorcist tells his Story", Gabriele Amorth for one good set of examples).


No-snark...If I read that book will I find "a lot of solid evidence" or a collection of stories that can't be confirmed or denied?

It amuses that people will see string theory and multi-verses (hundreds of parallel universes) as legitimate science, but dismiss spiritual aparitions or messengers out of hand.


I am not smart enough to understand string-theory or multi-verses but if they are hypotheses built from the scientific method then they deserve to be tagged with legitimate science.
   51. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:22 PM (#3579626)
So Democrats/Liberals are almost twice as likely to believe in ghosts as Republicans/Conservatives? Wow. And also twice as likely, roughly, to believe in the various "New Age" beliefs, like astrology, reincarnation, etc. 36% of Democrats are in touch with the dead? Egads.

I'm a lefty and I think it's all a bunch of ####. I'm of the opinion that people should appreciate all the real world tangible stuff you CAN see.

edit: I'm not referring to religion, by the way. I am not opening that box. But space aliens, ghosts, crop circles, loch ness monsters...a bunch of hooey!
   52. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:23 PM (#3579627)
I merely pointed that out as a response to the conservatives not believing in ghosts. Interesting paradox there.
   53. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:24 PM (#3579633)
So Democrats/Liberals are almost twice as likely to believe in ghosts as Republicans/Conservatives? Wow. And also twice as likely, roughly, to believe in the various "New Age" beliefs, like astrology, reincarnation, etc. 36% of Democrats are in touch with the dead? Egads.


If I read that study correctly over 40% of Black people interviewed have been in touch with the dead.
   54. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:28 PM (#3579635)
Oh I am not ####### with you at all. I 100% believe in ghosts.

Sorry I didn't realize. Didn't mean to offend.

As for the cats, you know how they act kind of crazy sometimes like they see #### that isn't there? Ghosts.

Now how the he11 do you know that?

I think she appeared to give me hope and have more faith in things.

No snark question - did she look at you with an affirming gaze or was she going along doing her thing without noticing you?
   55. RJ in TO Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:30 PM (#3579636)
As for the cats, you know how they act kind of crazy sometimes like they see #### that isn't there? Ghosts.

Now how the he11 do you know that?


Bernal loves ##### so much, he's become half-cat.
   56. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:30 PM (#3579638)
edit: I'm not referring to religion, by the way. I am not opening that box. But space aliens, ghosts, crop circles, loch ness monsters...a bunch of hooey!


I'll open that box.

Hooey.

Except for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That's real.
   57. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:31 PM (#3579639)
Shooty:

I think it's a bit much to think that in the entire history of the universe to believe that what happened on Earth is unique.

I prefer to think of us as someone's science project. And some day 'it' is going to get tired of playing, throw us out and start over......................................
   58. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:31 PM (#3579641)
Actually she didn't look at me at all. As for the cats, it is just a theory.

And I wasn't offended. I have very thick skin. Unlike some people posting around here.
   59. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:32 PM (#3579643)
No-snark...If I read that book will I find "a lot of solid evidence" or a collection of stories that can't be confirmed or denied?

You'll read about a real world exorcist who interacted with a lot of people who seriously appear to be opressed or posessed by demons. In the modern day and age Catholic exorcists require that people seek out treatment for medical and psychiatric causes before any spiritual remedies (e.g. exorcism) is attempted.

These are serious men dealing with serious problems people have. They are not seeking fame or glory, and many are deeply damaged by their interactions with the demonic. I'm generally skeptical about "the supernatural" but this is scary stuff.

There's no proof, per se, but a lot of compelling evidence.
   60. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:36 PM (#3579645)
I think it's a bit much to think that in the entire history of the universe to believe that what happened on Earth is unique.


I am 100% certain there is life on other planets. I just don't think they're flying here and then crashing or beaming people up to look at their anuses or slicing open cows with laser precision.
   61. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:36 PM (#3579646)
Of course there is life on other planets.
   62. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:36 PM (#3579647)
Except for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That's real.

I won't live in a world where it isn't!
   63. PerroX Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:39 PM (#3579650)
I am not smart enough to understand string-theory or multi-verses but if they are hypotheses built from the scientific method then they deserve to be tagged with legitimate science...

Most of these theories come out of math and theoretical and experimental models that raised questions about previous models of reality. All conceptual models have black holes in them. The human mind always tries to fill in its blind spots.

...people should appreciate all the real world tangible stuff you CAN see.


What if you can see it but not touch it?
   64. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:39 PM (#3579651)
Cripes, I had a fella around my area growing up who others branded as 'possessed' and the local doc tried to explain that it was Tourette's.

Gotta think that was pretty much the norm in most places given that while WI is a backwater it isn't completely stuck in the 17th century.
   65. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:41 PM (#3579653)
I am 100% certain there is life on other planets. I just don't think they're flying here and then crashing or beaming people up to look at their anuses or slicing open cows with laser precision.


"We have reached the limits of what rectal probing can teach us."
   66. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:43 PM (#3579656)
What if you can see it but not touch it?

Are we talking about my girlfriend now?
   67. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:43 PM (#3579657)
In the modern day and age Catholic exorcists require that people seek out treatment for medical and psychiatric causes before any spiritual remedies (e.g. exorcism) is attempted.


And, as everyone knows, the human mind is so perfectly understood by modern medicine and psychiatry that there is a 100% cure rate for every disorder, and any one that remains uncured after such a regimen is clearly suffering from demonic possession.
   68. JMPH Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:46 PM (#3579660)
Jeez man, at least they're leaving it as a last resort instead of jumping right to it.
   69. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:46 PM (#3579661)
Cripes, I had a fella around my area growing up who others branded as 'possessed' and the local doc tried to explain that it was Tourette's.

Gotta think that was pretty much the norm in most places given that while WI is a backwater it isn't completely stuck in the 17th century.


Yes. But modern exorcists account for this. They insist people seek medical help first.

Also, if it was psychiatric, exorcism wouldn't help.
   70. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:47 PM (#3579662)
And, as everyone knows, the human mind is so perfectly understood by modern medicine and psychiatry that there is a 100% cure rate for every disorder, and any one that remains uncured after such a regimen is clearly suffering from demonic possession.

I'm pretty sure Pfizer is working on a pill for demonic possession as we speak. May cause neck irritation and intense vomiting, however.
   71. Rich Rifkin Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:47 PM (#3579663)
According to the poll quoted in #45, the two groups which have the highest percentages which believe in "the evil eye" are Hispanics and Black protestants. White mainline Protestants who attend church weekly have the least belief in the "evil eye."

I could be wrong, but I think the notion of "the evil eye" originated in Jewish mysticism (in Spain or Portugal) and from there spread to the Islamic world*. In Turkey, everywhere you go you see these amulets with an eye on them, I think to fool the "evil eye." There is a Yiddish (Ashkenazi) expression to ward off the "evil eye," kine-ine-haw-ruh. I think it literally means, "No evil eye!" I don't know the Hebrew for evil eye, but I imagine that's where the Yiddish comes from.

*I concede that it might just be the opposite. Perhaps Sephardic Jews living in Islamic Spain picked up the concept from their Muslim neighbors. I don't recall reading its origins. I just presumed it came from Jewish mysticism, due to the kine-ine-haw-ruh expression I heard as a young child.
   72. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:49 PM (#3579664)
Also, if it was psychiatric, exorcism wouldn't help.


The Catholic Church should ensure their exorcists learn psychiatry. They can be a one stop shop!
   73. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:50 PM (#3579670)
Also, if it was psychiatric, exorcism wouldn't help.
Oh, clearly.
   74. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:50 PM (#3579672)
snapper:

You misunderstand. I was just trying to explain how over time as we gain understanding things that once seemed the area of the supernatural are no longer mysterious.

It was not meant as a 'rebuttal' of your posts.
   75. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:51 PM (#3579673)
And, as everyone knows, the human mind is so perfectly understood by modern medicine and psychiatry that there is a 100% cure rate for every disorder, and any one that remains uncured after such a regimen is clearly suffering from demonic possession.

Hey, at least exorcism can cause no harm, unlike a lot of psychiatric medicine.

I have no personal knowledge, and also find it hard to believe, but it does appear that in a fair number of cases exorcism works, which would not be true if the cause was strictly medical.
   76. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:51 PM (#3579674)
I can affirm the cats thing. They can see *something* we can't and chase it all over the house. and no it wasn't a bug.

My experiences are the standard 'Night Terrors', feeling of horrible evil in the room followed by something sitting on the chest, hot breath in face, paralysis(1)..etc...and once one of the doorknobs started turning itself(2), and another time in my GF's house a low, tinny song would play every hour on the hour right in the middle of the room.(3) She had no alarm clock or radio.

(1) I'm aware of the standard explanations. I don't claim any particular supernatural cause, but I don't dismiss it either.

(2) No explanation. There was no one else around. No one was playing a trick.

(3) On alt.fan.cecil.adams, I was told it could be transmitted through the TV that was off. It was just weird how it was the same song every hour on the hour seeming to come from a spot in mid-air.

That's all I got.

Oh...and the standard 'Someone changing The Matrix' stuff. Usually involving celebrity deaths. I SWEAR Ann Jillian died. and Freaking William Hickey died three times!
   77. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:52 PM (#3579676)
Also, if it was psychiatric, exorcism wouldn't help.


Sure it could. Depends on what the person really believed. If the patient really believed that exorcism would fix them and psychiatry wouldn't, then you could also get this result.

And then, exorcism is just a primitive form of psychiatry.
   78. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:56 PM (#3579680)
snapper:

You misunderstand. I was just trying to explain how over time as we gain understanding things that once seemed the area of the supernatural are no longer mysterious.

It was not meant as a 'rebuttal' of your posts.


Oh sure, I understand. I'm sure a ton of people were deemed to be posessed b/c of psychiatric illness.

However, the Church today has gone to the opposite extreme. Many, many bishops refuse to admit the possibility of posession, and don't appoint exorcists at. That's the only reason a few of the old timers, like Fr. Amorth, have started publicizing it. They feel that people are being denied help they need, and should be given.
   79. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:56 PM (#3579681)
But space aliens, ghosts, crop circles, loch ness monsters...


What about Space Ghost?
   80. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:58 PM (#3579684)
I can affirm the cats thing. They can see *something* we can't and chase it all over the house. and no it wasn't a bug.

All three of my cats do this and they have in all three apartments we've lived in (well, only 2, really since the third cat is new). I call it Playing Pirate (as it's often accompanied by one of them going Argghghghghghghggh) or The Crazies. I think it's just some weird-ass #### cats do for their own reasons, to be honest. My personal theory, which I am 0% sure of, is that, since they are indoor cats, they just need to release a lot of pent up energy.
   81. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:58 PM (#3579685)
Hey, at least exorcism can cause no harm, unlike a lot of psychiatric medicine.


What?

Source
   82. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 05:58 PM (#3579687)
And I'm pretty sure I'm God and I created all this for my amusement. I mean..c'mon. What are the odds that I would be me, and all of you all would be you.
   83. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:01 PM (#3579691)
I thought the Evil Eye thing was interesting too, Rich. According to wiki it's an older-than-dirt idea originating in the Eastern Med and thereabouts. Why so prevalent among Black Protestants? I know they're big into that kind of thing in Haiti but isn't that (nominally) Catholic?

I volunteer regularly at a Christian environmental charity (not that I am religious). This week, apropos of nothing, the girl I work with (a Christian of an Indian background) asked if I believed in black magic. Rather than laugh in her face, I told her that Saul consulted a witch to raise the spirit of the prophet Samuel, so who knows? I found it amusing using one set of superstitious beliefs to justify another set of diametrically opposed ones. :)
   84. The Good Face Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:02 PM (#3579692)
All three of my cats do this and they have in all three apartments we've lived in (well, only 2, really since the third cat is new). I call it Playing Pirate (as it's often accompanied by one of them going Argghghghghghghggh) or The Crazies. I think it's just some weird-ass #### cats do for their own reasons, to be honest. My personal theory, which I am 0% sure of, is that, since they are indoor cats, they just need to release a lot of pent up energy.


Pretty much. Being indoors all the time messes with their tiny kitteh brains. I've read some animial behavior expert who thinks they're hallucinating, and the night time crazies are them chasing around imaginary mice. Or fleeing from imaginary dogs. Or maybe just being a colossal pain in the ass at 3:00 AM.
   85. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:08 PM (#3579697)
My experiences are the standard 'Night Terrors', feeling of horrible evil in the room followed by something sitting on the chest, hot breath in face, paralysis(1)..etc...and once one of the doorknobs started turning itself(2),


Dale did #1 and #2 happen at the same time? If not, did #2 happen in the middle of the day?

When I was home from college one year I watched my mom put a glass on the counter and turn to the fridge - just as she turned the glass slowly and silently moved about 10 inches across the counter in a really unnatural manner. The hairs on my back stood up and I jumped from my chair. I ran to the counter and was disappointed see a small film of water. The glass was a very light plastic and was floating along the surface. I repeated the action a few times on my own and sadly decided I had not witnessed something very cool.
   86. robinred Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:10 PM (#3579699)
All three of my cats do this and they have in all three apartments we've lived in (well, only 2, really since the third cat is new).


Being indoors all the time messes with their tiny kitteh brains


Yep. Having lost a couple (one to a coyote) though, I ain't letting them out anymore.
   87. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:12 PM (#3579701)
Tim Minchin neatly summarises my views.

After a half-hour of YouTubing (so far), thanks for a hilarious trip down the rabbit hole.
   88. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:14 PM (#3579702)
Yep. Having lost a couple (one to a coyote) though, I ain't letting them out anymore.

Sorry to hear that rr. Coyotes aren't a problem for us, it's just not practical for us to let them out in Manhattan. I wish I had a yard for them, though. I feel guilty about it sometimes.
   89. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:14 PM (#3579703)
Or maybe just being a colossal pain in the ass at 3:00 AM.


Yeah, using cats to prove the existence of 'spirits' is especially amusing given their tendency to be pains in the ass for their own pleasure.

Of the major domesticated animals, cats are the only one that do not have a heirarchacal structure, with humans replacing the alpha animal at the top.
   90. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:15 PM (#3579704)
The Crazies


This was different from the crazies. Mine were definitly both looking at something in the air that wasn't there. Following it with their heads and then chasing it around.
   91. robinred Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:16 PM (#3579706)
I wish I had a yard for them


Yeah--that is where the coyote got him.
   92. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:18 PM (#3579708)
Dale did #1 and #2 happen at the same time? If not, did #2 happen in the middle of the day?


Not at the same time, and yes the doorknob thing was in the middle of the day.
   93. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:19 PM (#3579712)
It boggles my mind that serious people can argue that ghosts or other "paranormal" things exist. And I say this as someone who isn't one of these crazy atheists who thinks religion is the opiate of the masses or whatnot. I'm just sayin, even if you believe in religion and/or the afterlife, why would random spirits be floating around, only in certain places, only occasionally visible or making random sounds like footsteps. I mean, is it just God ####### with us? That's not very nice.
   94. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:20 PM (#3579714)
given their tendency to be pains in the ass for their own pleasure.


Reminds me of the Far Side where one dog says to the other something along the lines of "Watch me raise my hackles and growl at the closet just to freak this guy out"
   95. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:25 PM (#3579717)
This was different from the crazies. Mine were definitly both looking at something in the air that wasn't there. Following it with their heads and then chasing it around.

Cats see about a million times better than we do. I'd bet it was a flying bug you just couldn't make out. The cats are great for noticing bugs I haven't noticed. And my girl is great at making me capture the bugs in a kind-hearted catch and release program that ends up taking me a half hour to complete. And I am great for mocking the cats for their inability to catch the bugs themselves the way god intended.
   96. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:26 PM (#3579720)
I could be wrong, but I think the notion of "the evil eye" originated in Jewish mysticism (in Spain or Portugal) and from there spread to the Islamic world*. In Turkey, everywhere you go you see these amulets with an eye on them, I think to fool the "evil eye."

There are a ton of evil eye trinkets in Greece, too, or at least on the islands. I don't think it is a Muslim thing.
   97. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:26 PM (#3579721)
It boggles my mind that serious people can argue that ghosts or other "paranormal" things exist. And I say this as someone who isn't one of these crazy atheists who thinks religion is the opiate of the masses or whatnot. I'm just sayin, even if you believe in religion and/or the afterlife, why would random spirits be floating around, only in certain places, only occasionally visible or making random sounds like footsteps. I mean, is it just God ####### with us? That's not very nice.

In Christian belief angels (and therefore demons, who are simply fallen angels; i.e. they sided with Satan) are messengers. It is possible (though I'm fairly skeptical) that what people perceive as "ghosts" are messengers of some sort, either from God or Satan.
   98. The Good Face Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:30 PM (#3579726)
Yeah, using cats to prove the existence of 'spirits' is especially amusing given their tendency to be pains in the ass for their own pleasure.

Of the major domesticated animals, cats are the only one that do not have a heirarchacal structure, with humans replacing the alpha animal at the top.


Yeah. Cats really are just barely domesticated at all if you stop to think about it. They're just solitary killing machines, nature's tiny little terminators. It's why they're such a pain to train... since they recognize no alpha, your approval is of little or no value. The stuff that works on dogs is worse than useless with a cat.
   99. Dale Sams Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:30 PM (#3579727)
Cats see about a million times better than we do


Gawd..not mine. "It's right there! The piece of ham I dropped right beside you...right there!! GAHHH!! Dumb cat."

And I said it wasn't a bug!!
   100. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 06, 2010 at 06:33 PM (#3579730)
And I said it wasn't a bug!!


Well, not a bug that you could see. It could be a ghost bug.
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