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Thursday, April 18, 2013

Padres CEO Tom Garfinkel Compared Zack Greinke to Rain Man, Quickly Apologized [Audio]

Zack doesn’t even like Wapner!

Padres CEO and Team President Tom Garfinkel spoke with season ticket holders last Friday, less than 48 hours after the Zack Greinke/ Carlos Quentin incident that resulted in Greinke breaking his collarbone. Yahoo Sports obtained audio of Garfinkel’s talk. Garfinkel was of the belief that Greinke was throwing at Quentin intentionally, and explained-away it being a 2-1 game and a 3-2 count by comparing Zack Greinke to Raymond Babbitt.

“Zack Greinke is a different kind of guy. Anybody seen Rain Man? [crowd laughs] He is a very smart guy. He has Social Anxiety Disorder. He doesn’t interact well with his team, he doesn’t interact with his teammates.”

Garfinkle probably recognized that he had crossed some sort of line there. Later in the same talk, he added, ”This is my opinion, and I can’t say this publicly. Well, this is public, we are in the Trust Tree here.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:28 AM | 106 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, movies, padres, rain man, social anxiety, tom garfinkel, zack greinke

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   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: April 18, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4417981)
It's going to take a lot of effort for a pitcher to nail Garfinkel with a pitch in the owner's box. Perhaps an NL West team should trade for Carlos Marmol to increase their opportunities to give it a shot.
   2. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:01 PM (#4417990)
Another data point about the intelligence of CEO's...I'm actually currently reading Nassim Taleb's new book and his casual insults of CEOs make me chuckle. Call it a guilty pleasure.
   3. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4418018)
He might be a bigger d*uche than Quentin. That's quite a feat.
   4. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4418030)
He has Social Anxiety Disorder. He doesn’t interact well with his team, he doesn’t interact with his teammates.”
What a jackass.
   5. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:21 PM (#4418037)
we are in the Trust Tree here.”

I think I have a new handle.
   6. bunyon Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4418049)
Magic should challenge him to a game of one on one. Play to 20. When it's 19-0, just start spending the whole time elbowing him in the face and body. At 19-20, score twice. Repeat elbowing for two points. Score two more. Repeat.
   7. geonose Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4418063)
He has Social Anxiety Disorder. He doesn’t interact well with his team, he doesn’t interact with his teammates.”

What a jackass.

Not to mention that it's totally untrue.
   8. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4418078)
I think I have a new handle.
I love it. Well done.
   9. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4418084)
I love it. Well done.

I'm going to abuse the hell out of that line. It's just too perfect--the perfect combination of corporate-speak, smugness and douche-ocity. Thanks to Mr. Garfinkel, if that is is real name, for this one.
   10. smileyy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:48 PM (#4418087)
“Zack Greinke is a different kind of guy. He is a very smart guy. He has Social Anxiety Disorder.”


I guess just saying that sounds weird, huh?
   11. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4418093)
explained-away it being a 2-1 game and a 3-2 count by comparing Zack Greinke to Raymond Babbitt


If my experience with autism counts for anything, if they are aware enough to be able to play a game, they are likely to be hyper-aware of the score, the count, the batter's stance and the specific situation, and oblivious to anything being yelled at them.

Even if you add, "I'M YOUR FATHER FOR CHRISSAKES".
   12. JE (Jason) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4418095)
I think we can all agree that K-Mart sucks.
   13. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 01:55 PM (#4418098)
I think we can all agree that K-Mart sucks.

Aw, but that's where I used to get my Trax to make me run faster and my Prest-o-magix to unlock my imagination!
   14. bigglou115 Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4418110)
So, let me get this straight, the guy thinks Grienke having social anxiety disorder helps his case? That's like saying, "Yeah, we probably shouldn't have stuffed that kid in his locker, but he's a nerd so its OK."

Reframing this as an issue about Greinke's psychological problems just makes Quentin look less roid rage and more bully. Frankly, roid rage is the more sympathetic position if you ask me.
   15. Knock on any Iorg Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4418121)
Dad lets me throw slow on the sidelines. But not on Monday. Definitely not on Monday.
   16. Dan The Mediocre Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:31 PM (#4418154)
If my experience with autism counts for anything, if they are aware enough to be able to play a game, they are likely to be hyper-aware of the score, the count, the batter's stance and the specific situation, and oblivious to anything being yelled at them.

Even if you add, "I'M YOUR FATHER FOR CHRISSAKES".


This made me laugh.
   17. Moeball Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:38 PM (#4418167)
He doesn’t interact well with his team, he doesn’t interact with his teammates.


That's funny, they used to say the same thing about Bob Gibson. I had no idea he had SAD. Everybody (opponents and teammates alike) always thought he was just MAD.
   18. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:40 PM (#4418171)
Last night on American Idol, Keith Urban ephatically yelled out "AMBER ALERT" after Amber Holcomb finished her song. He immediately realized what he'd done and said "I shouldn't have said that.....I wish I hadn't said that."
   19. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4418178)
Last night on American Idol, Keith Urban ephatically yelled out "AMBER ALERT" after Amber Holcomb finished her song. He immediately realized what he'd done and said "I shouldn't have said that.....I wish I hadn't said that."
Dear lord.
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4418180)
Last night on American Idol, Keith Urban ephatically yelled out "AMBER ALERT" after Amber Holcomb finished her song. He immediately realized what he'd done and said "I shouldn't have said that.....I wish I hadn't said that."


This afternoon, Rants admitted to watching American Idol last night. He immediately thought, "I wish I hadn't done that."

   21. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: April 18, 2013 at 02:53 PM (#4418196)
Did the Padres react so flippantly to Khalil Greene?

EDIT - Perhaps unfair, as it appears his struggles began (or at least were made public) after he was traded to the Cardinals.
   22. pikepredator Posted: April 18, 2013 at 03:40 PM (#4418263)
Urban's reaction is appropriate IMO. People forced to speak off the cuff in public will eventually slip up and say something stupid. While you can't totally "take it back", showing immediate contrition is good enough for me. Repeat offenses are harder for me to overlook.

As far as Garfinkel is concerned, I can't blame him. Tom's a different kind of guy. Have you seen Bale in American Psycho? He's a very successful businessman, but psychopaths like him can't be expected to be cognizant of others' feelings. Seems like his only fear is getting caught - "I can't say this publicly" - whereas Urban showed the more human(e) emotion of regret.
   23. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4418289)
As far as Garfinkel is concerned, I can't blame him. Tom's a different kind of guy. Have you seen Bale in American Psycho? He's a very successful businessman, but psychopaths like him can't be expected to be cognizant of others' feelings.
Well it's okay, because he was in the Trust Tree when he said that.
   24. ASmitty Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:06 PM (#4418299)
Yeah. This article is a pretty egregious violation of the Trust Tree principle.
   25. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4418300)
You guys are missing another great component of this. Garfinkel says that the Quentin and the Padres have no idea what Greinke said. Which is interesting since Quentin and the Padres have been saying that what Greinke said is what made Quentin so angry.
   26. depletion Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4418310)
Urban's reaction is appropriate IMO. People forced to speak off the cuff in public will eventually slip up and say something stupid. While you can't totally "take it back", showing immediate contrition is good enough for me. Repeat offenses are harder for me to overlook

Completely agree. He has less of an excuse because, as a professional singer, he is accustomed to being on stage and dealing with an audience. Still, if you talk long enough you say something stupid. Garfinkel, OTOH, made a point of bringing up Zack's condition to get a laugh. No excuse. And, by the way, the Padres belong in AAA.
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:25 PM (#4418314)
Giving Tree > Stuhub Ticket Tree > Tree Rollins > Trust Tree
   28. madvillain Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4418338)
I'm surprised that a) this hasn't been posted yet and b) the reaction (some of it racist I think) against Quentin and for Grienke.

Here is Grienke in that article I linked, clearly explaining how he was intentionally trying to hit Quentin:

Greinke said he apologized to Ellis (his catcher) for not advising him of the potential for trouble.

"Anyone with the White Sox has always labeled me as someone who does stuff," Greinke said. "I didn't think it would happen. Looking back, I should have warned him."


I think that clears up any issue of intent. So Grienke was head-hunting, Quentin knew it -- seems pretty cut and dry here. Grienke is an ass. Make whatever excuses you want about his mental health, but I don't think that passes the smell test here. It wasn't social anxiety disorder that made him want to hit Quentin. It was being an ####### and holding a grudge for over 3 ####### years.
   29. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4418346)

I think that clears up any issue of intent. So Grienke was head-hunting, Quentin knew it -- seems pretty cut and dry here. Grienke is an ass. Make whatever excuses you want about his mental health, but I don't think that passes the smell test here. It wasn't social anxiety disorder that made him want to hit Quentin. It was being an ####### and holding a grudge for over 3 ####### years.


How do you get that out of the article? He's not saying he hit Quentin on purpose. He's saying he was aware that Quentin had an issue with Zack.
   30. madvillain Posted: April 18, 2013 at 04:56 PM (#4418359)
How do you get that out of the article? He's not saying he hit Quentin on purpose. He's saying he was aware that Quentin had an issue with Zack.


How much clearer can it be? Grienke had bad blood with Quentin. Why in the hell would he regret not warning his catcher if he had no intention of hitting him? That makes zero sense to be remorseful over an accident (defined as, well, an accident). It clearly wasn't an accident, if it was an accident he wouldn't have said he regrets not alerting his catcher.

Quentin is a soft spoken Stanford grad, not some ape. But because he has brown skin and Grienke is the shy white kid with social anxiety disorder the perception is way, way skewed here.

That's my opinion, I could be wrong. Grienke meant to hit him, end of story imo.
   31. JJ1986 Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4418364)
(some of it racist I think)


Really?
   32. madvillain Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4418366)
Really?


Yea, totally, look at the thread from the original article here. I think Quentin was called an ape in...wait for it...the first comment. Classy.
   33. Randy Jones Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:02 PM (#4418367)
I don't give a #### about either player or either team. I have no idea where you are getting that from what you quoted, madvillian. If anything, you're the one with the skewed perception here. It's right there in the quote, Greinke believes that the White Sox think he throws at people, especially Quentin. That's what he is saying he should have warned Ellis about.

As to not having remorse over an accident, that makes no sense either. Say you accidentally hit someone with your car and kill them. You are not going to feel any remorse over that because it wasn't intentional?
   34. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4418371)

How much clearer can it be? Grienke had bad blood with Quentin.


Greinke never said he had bad blood with Quentin. He's saying he knew Quentin had bad blood with him.
   35. madvillain Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:09 PM (#4418375)
I have no horse in this race either Randy Jones, I'm just calling it like I see it. Given that Carlos Quentin has been hit more than any other MLB player and never charged the mound, and coupling that with the history of bad blood between the two and then adding on that Grienke seemingly knew there was going to be trouble (and how would there be any trouble if he didn't hit him? I've never heard of a player charging the mound after not getting hit) imo it all adds up to only one thing: Grienke knew he had a high chance of riling up Quentin. Or, put another way, he was prepared to throw at Quentin, and then did.

@34 -- GMAFB, it's a two way street. Grienke and Quentin have a history, to argue Grienke as some innocent bystander in that history is laughable.
   36. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:13 PM (#4418378)
I think the level of criticism toward Quentin has been significantly unfair and unbalanced in this situation but I don't think there is a meaningful racial component to it. You can always find some nitwit who thinks that way but I think the vast majority of people who are on Greinke's side simply see it differently than you and I do madvillain.

I'll also add that Greinke's comment doesn't suggest intent to me, simply as noted by RoyalsRetro that Z knew Q had a thing for Z that might bubble up if an inside pitch got away.
   37. Randy Jones Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4418379)
Grienke knew he had a high chance of riling up Quentin. Or, put another way, he was prepared to throw at Quentin, and then did.


The second part doesn't follow from the first. Greinke could have believed that any inside pitch had the potential to rile up Quentin as you put it, because of issues in the past. That is why when looking back at it, he said he should have warned his catcher.

I am not buying the racial aspect either.
   38. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4418384)
Why in the hell would he regret not warning his catcher if he had no intention of hitting him? That makes zero sense to be remorseful over an accident (defined as, well, an accident).


He was aware that Quentin had a problem with him, and I assume he was also aware that Quentin gets hit at a freakish rate. Seems reasonable to me that Greinke might feel he should have made sure everyone was prepared for a fight even if he wasn't trying to start one.

I think Quentin was called an ape in...wait for it...the first comment. Classy.


They were calling him an ape because he behaved violently and without self control. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin. If the reaction to Quentin by BTFers has been unfair, it's because Greinke is extremely popular here. That you automatically assume racism says a lot more about you than it does the people calling him an ape.

EDIT: I also have no dog in this fight. I sort of dislike Greinke and have no opinion of Quentin. I don't claim to know whether Greinke hit him on purpose or not, though the situation makes it seem unlikely.
   39. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4418385)

@34 -- GMAFB, it's a two way street. Grienke and Quentin have a history, to argue Grienke as some innocent bystander in that history is laughable.


So if I accidentally hit someone with my car, and they go out and beat me up about it, I'm not an innocent bystander?

I don't think there's a racial aspect to it either. It would be different if Quentin was from the DR - then there might be. But I think for the most part fans treat light-skinned Hispanic-Americans like Quentin or David DeJesus or Gaby Sanchez who speak perfect English with no accent pretty much like they do white players.

If the reaction to Quentin by BTFers has been unfair, it's because Greinke is extremely popular here.


Bingo.
   40. Lars6788 Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4418387)
It is what it is but how can anyone be so damn sure of Greinke's intent? The guy is a headcase, but I guess the narrative has been written that he must be handled with kid gloves because of his mental issues.

Greinke is still a MLB pitcher making $150 million a year with the ability to throw the ball where he wants.

But I get it, Greinke is a protected species and must not be sullied in any way - to do so would be ignorant and unsavory.

If this was Vicente Padilla or Alfredo Aceves or a pitcher of that ilk plunking Quentin or another batter - then all hell would break loose in the other direction.
   41. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:24 PM (#4418391)
madvillain - i think you're wrong ... and i'm not in the anti-quentin camp.
   42. madvillain Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4418395)
That your mind automatically assumes racism says a lot more about you than it does the people calling him an ape.


Ah yes, the standard reply when anyone claims racism that they don't agree with.

Look, I don't care to argue the racism point, not in this forum, not in the Internet, not in some stupid undergrad class on race in politics, not anywhere really. It's a touchy subject and I won't say anymore on it because it will derail the thread and waste everyone's time.

My larger argument is that anyone that doesn't think Grienke knew there was a high probability he'd hit Quentin that AB is too big of a Grienke fanboy and should evaluate their bias. I know he's a lovable type to so many shy nerds that never advanced their athletic careers past the Pony League, that doesn't make him free of criticism when it's warranted. It's clearly warranted here.

@40 -- yep, you nailed it.

Der K -- respect you as a poster and we'll have to agree to disagree here. As I said, the racism thing I have no interest in furthering arguing. The larger point about culpability for the situation I will continue to argue Grienke bears the majority of it.
   43. Randy Jones Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:28 PM (#4418397)
It is what it is but how can anyone be so damn sure of Greinke's intent?

But I get it, Greinke is a protected species and must not be sullied in any way - to do so would be ignorant and unsavory.

Because the only people who are "so damn sure of Greinke's intent" are the ones defending him....


If this was Vicente Padilla or Alfredo Aceves or a pitcher of that ilk plunking Quentin or another batter - then all hell would break loose in the other direction.

If it was Padilla, absolutely. The guy is known to intentionally throw at players he doesn't like. His own teammates have complained about this as it results in them getting hit with pitches. I have no idea if Aceves has a similar reputation, but I haven't heard of it.


Also, to be totally clear. I have no idea if Greinke threw at Quentin on purpose. And really, I don't care.
   44. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4418405)
I respect you too, madvillain.

The larger point about culpability for the situation I will continue to argue Grienke bears the majority of it.

I was unspecific - sorry - this is the only point I'd intended to address, not how race interacts with people's response to what happened. I don't read Grienke's comments the way you did (I took it as he was aware how Quentin felt about him) - nor was his pitch one you would throw if you were trying to hit somebody - nor does he have a rep as a hothead while Quentin (a player I like more than Grienke, though I like both) does.
   45. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:41 PM (#4418419)
It is what it is but how can anyone be so damn sure of Greinke's intent?


I agree with that. I don't know what his intent was. That's why I'm baffled by madvillan's claims that he knows Greinke did it on purpose.
   46. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: April 18, 2013 at 05:50 PM (#4418431)
Look, I don't care to argue the racism point, not in this forum...


The statement that preceded the one I just quoted makes it seem otherwise, but I won't push it.

I'll just add that if you don't want to argue about a particular subject, don't be the first one to mention it, and don't respond (even in the brief and dismissive fashion that you did) to people who take the bait that you didn't mean to cast.
   47. madvillain Posted: April 18, 2013 at 06:07 PM (#4418454)
edit: nevermind, anyone else have problems with the PM feature on this site? It's not working for me and I tried to send @46 one.
   48. shoewizard Posted: April 18, 2013 at 06:48 PM (#4418509)
Well, this is public, we are in the Trust Tree here.”


More like the Bush of Bullshiite
   49. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 18, 2013 at 07:35 PM (#4418557)
I think Madvillian has completely misinterpreted Greinke's statement. He's not saying he should have warned his catcher he was going to throw at Quentin, he's indicating that he should have mentioned that Quentin had a history with him, so Ellis would be alert and able to perform the catcher's role of restraining batters thinking of charging the mound.
   50. pikepredator Posted: April 18, 2013 at 08:39 PM (#4418605)
I would agree w/Madvillian if Greinke and Quentin were still on the same teams. Greinke's teammates in KC knew all about the bad blood so a reminder would be suspicious. But I don't see how the Dodgers' young catcher would know about the history between two AL Central teams that are relatively under-reported by the media. In our internal client database at work, we make notes about the few clients who tend to be irrationally argumentative so that our colleagues don't get caught off guard and know when to put on the kid gloves.

Which is exactly why Greinke should've given the "my bad" shrug/hands-up move after he hit him.
   51. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 08:51 PM (#4418620)
How much clearer can it be? Grienke had bad blood with Quentin. Why in the hell would he regret not warning his catcher if he had no intention of hitting him? That makes zero sense to be remorseful over an accident (defined as, well, an accident). It clearly wasn't an accident, if it was an accident he wouldn't have said he regrets not alerting his catcher.


Reading comprehension isn't in your repertoire, is it?

It's obvious. 1. Greinke knows that the White Sox players have a problem with him 2. He thinks he should have realized that Quentin was a nutjob and warned his catcher that he was because if anything got out of hand, the nutjob was going to react.

Any other interpretation of his comment is nuts.

Quentin is a soft spoken Stanford grad, not some ape. But because he has brown skin and Grienke is the shy white kid with social anxiety disorder the perception is way, way skewed here.


I think the fact that HE CHARGED the mound is all the evidence you need to know he's a nutter. I honestly had no clue what color he was, I don't pay that much attention to the AL. The fact that he charged the mound, for a transgression from four years ago, is all I need to know about his personality. He's a ####### nutjob.
   52. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4418628)
I think the fact that HE CHARGED the mound is all the evidence you need to know he's a nutter. I honestly had no clue what color he was, I don't pay that much attention to the AL. The fact that he charged the mound, for a transgression from four years ago, is all I need to know about his personality. He's a ####### nutjob.

I think Quentin getting plunked a few days before and missing a couple of days added to his frustration. I don't think he's a nutter, just that he saw red and did something stupid. The racism angle is what's nutty here. The Padres CEO is just a moron as he does even have the "heat of the battle" excuse.
   53. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:18 PM (#4418640)
Quentin is a soft spoken Stanford grad, not some ape. But because he has brown skin and Grienke is the shy white kid with social anxiety disorder the perception is way, way skewed here.

Bingo.

The "ape" comment was probably the most overtly racist comment I've read here in 7 years of posting.

There's nothing to warn Ellis about if he didn't intend to hit him, and there's no time to warn Ellis if the hitting was accidental.

   54. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:28 PM (#4418647)
It's right there in the quote, Greinke believes that the White Sox think he throws at people, especially Quentin.

They weren't playing the White Sox, so he could only be talking about Quentin.

And Quentin's never charged the mound in his career.
   55. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:38 PM (#4418658)
The "ape" comment was probably the most overtly racist comment I've read here in 7 years of posting.

Please. If you think Quentin being called an ape is racist that probably reflects more on you that you would so quickly make that connection.

And Quentin's never charged the mound in his career.

So what? This means nothing.
   56. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:45 PM (#4418669)
So what? This means nothing.

It means everything. Grienke would have no real basis to warn Ellis of anything based on the idea that Quentin is some kind of "hothead," because he isn't.

There's nothing to "warn" Ellis about unless Grienke thought he might hit Quentin. "A bunch of guys on a team we're not playing in the league we're not playing in think I threw at them, and one of them's on the Padres and he's never charged the mound before but be careful, he might charge the mound."

Yeah, that makes sense.

Please. If you think Quentin being called an ape is racist that probably reflects more on you that you would so quickly make that connection.

What does this even mean?
   57. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:46 PM (#4418670)
,sizedata[450x2000]&call=url[file:product.chain]]Most racist baseball team ever.

Buncha gorillas.

edit: stupid link. Try this one, though it's not as good: http://theinterrobang.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/baseball-bugs.jpg
   58. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:48 PM (#4418672)
It means everything. Grienke would have no real basis to warn Ellis of anything based on the idea that Quentin is some kind of "hothead," because he isn't.

He's speaking in hindsight. In foresight it NEVER occurred to him to worry about it.

What does this even mean?

Think hard.
   59. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:48 PM (#4418673)
Grienke would have no real basis to warn Ellis of anything based on the idea that Quentin is some kind of "hothead," because he isn't.


Except that they have argued in the past. Quentin never charging is the weakest defense on the planet...as someone pointed out OJ never killed anyone before.... So what. The simple fact that he did charge is all the evidence ever needed. Add in that he's in the NL, that he's with a new team and of course 4 YEARS, 18+ at bats against Greinke, and yet he's still holding a grudge for a supposed transgression. He needs to be on med if he holds a grudge that long.
   60. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 09:54 PM (#4418684)
He's speaking in hindsight.

Not exactly. He's speaking about his interpretation and foresight of what might happen based on the past history with the White Sox -- "I didn't think it would happen."

Didn't think what would happen? And why would anything happen if Grienke just played baseball and pitched to him?(*)

He gave himself away.

(*) Instead of throwing way, way inside (not the laughable 6 inches a bunch of people claimed) and then giving Quentin a douche sneer when he complained.

   61. JJ1986 Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:04 PM (#4418701)
The "ape" comment was probably the most overtly racist comment I've read here in 7 years of posting.


Since when is "ape" used as a racist pejorative towards light-skinned Mexican-Americans?
   62. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:07 PM (#4418703)
Since when is "ape" used as a racist pejorative towards light-skinned Mexican-Americans?

When the people using it are in an emotional rage.
   63. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:08 PM (#4418704)
Except that they have argued in the past. Quentin never charging is the weakest defense on the planet...as someone pointed out OJ never killed anyone before....


And that was an asinine comment when it was pointed out the first time.

I don't think Greinke's comment indicated he was planning to hit him. I think he was well aware of Quentin's feelings (and the feelings of all the White Sox), and knew that he should have let Ellis know of this history before facing the Pads.

His comments to Ellis do reinforce what I said on the other thread and pikepredator said above: he should have given some kind of "my bad" indication. If you're facing someone who already thinks you try to hit him, and then you hit him, you should try to convey the idea that it was an accident if you're interested in avoiding a confrontation.
   64. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4418708)
His comments to Ellis do reinforce what I said on the other thread and pikepredator said above: he should have given some kind of "my bad" indication. If you're facing someone who already thinks you try to hit him, and then you hit him, you should try to convey the idea that it was an accident if you're interested in avoiding a confrontation.

That's just it -- nothing about the way he acted after the pitch gave any indication that Greinke was concerned before the game about some accidental "misunderstanding" that would be worth warning Ellis about.

   65. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:23 PM (#4418717)
That's just it -- nothing about the way he acted after the pitch gave any indication that Greinke was concerned before the game about some accidental "misunderstanding" that would be worth warning Ellis about.


I think it indicates he now regrets the fight happened, because he's out 8 weeks. He's thinking that had he warned Ellis beforehand, his catcher could have intervened. But before the brawl, I don't think avoiding a confrontation was all that important to him, as his on-field conduct displayed.

I don't think it's proof that he was planning to hit him, or particularly compelling evidence in that direction.
   66. Pokey Reese's Pieces Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:29 PM (#4418723)
The "ape" comment was probably the most overtly racist comment I've read here in 7 years of posting.


I've been mostly lurking here for 12 years, almost since the very beginning. This is, beyond a doubt, the single most idiotic comment I've encountered here during that time...even after grading on the "SugarBear being contrarian simply for kicks" curve. Yes, that includes all the Piazza jokes, Admiral Ackbar, "Behold", Craig's wife. And Mike Crudale.

Really, dude. If someone here were to start a thread entitled "2+2=4", you'd put up two dozen posts to argue that it's 5.
   67. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:46 PM (#4418744)
Could Greinke have reacted better to stop the raging roider? sure... but it doesn't change the one simple fact. Quentin charged the mound. Is anyone debating this simple fact? He charged the mound. That part is undeniable. It is the only thing in this entire escapade that matters. He charged the mound. I don't care if he is a nice guy. I have heard of plenty of nice guys who only beat their wife once in their life. It doesn't change the fact that they beat their wife once. And it doesn't change the fact that Quentin charged the mound.

I think many of you on here are the people who say "If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have flirted with those guys". It's ridiculous. Quentin charged the mound. In case you people missed it. Quentin charged the mound. He had 40+ feet to think of his actions and yet, he continued on his roided up rage and charged the mound. That is the part I just don't get defending. I don't care if Greinke said "quit leaning over"... or even "let's go" it doesn't change the simple fact that Quentin charged the mound and was 100% in the wrong, even if he thinks he was justified.


*Note---any roid comments is intended to be inflammatory. I have no clue what his usage of roids is, whether it's habitual or casual.
   68. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4418759)
Ok Cardsfanboy - No matter how many times you keep repeating it, a lot of players have "charged the mound. Roid rage? Forget your weak caveat - you KEEP saying it. What's your proof of roids? It's just weak. You're the one who should stop the roiding. Whether habitual or casual.

Gweinke is the proven head case. he had to take a leave of absence from the game. And he's the one throwing the projectile head high at 92 MPH. Fact. No matter how much love YEEAARGH or whatever your handle is wants to express for the man. The Gweinke apologists on this site have denigrated BTF.

I should have warned my catcher?

After I hit him I squared up and barked at him?

If Gweinke keeps him mouth shut, no incident.

Quentin charges ONE guy in what 300HPB's and he's an ape? I'm with Madvillain all the way on this one. The vitirol toward Quentin here seems selective and confusing.

Did he throw on purpose, apparently not even Gweinke knows that one for sure.
   69. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4418763)
Quentin isn't the first guy to ever charge the mound - intentional inflammatory stuff aside, I think some of the outrage towards him is extreme/misplaced.
He merited (and got) a longer punishment than the norm but I don't subscribe to the eye for an eye notion that he should be suspended for as long as Greinke's hurt.

Side note: it never occurred to me that Quentin was Hispanic. I suppose I should have known that, given that I've watched him loads of times and his name is Carlos, but - never noticed.
   70. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4418787)
Quentin isn't the first guy to ever charge the mound - intentional inflammatory stuff aside, I think some of the outrage towards him is extreme/misplaced.
He merited (and got) a longer punishment than the norm but I don't subscribe to the eye for an eye notion that he should be suspended for as long as Greinke's hurt.


I don't subscribe to the suspension equals how long a guy is out. That is just idiotic. As to the length of suspension, that is what is should have been after the appeal. Yes I know he didn't appeal, but generally they give a suspension, an appeal is made, and then it's reduced but still there, since they know that is going to happen they need to start with a longer suspension to make it to the realistic time he should be gone. Realistically he should be gone for at least a week.


No matter how many times you keep repeating it, a lot of players have "charged the mound.


And 99% of them were raging a-holes at the time and 100% in the wrong. This is what I don't get. Charging the mound should never ever be accepted. I don't care if your messed up brain justifies it, there is almost never a reason to charge the mound.

If Gweinke keeps him mouth shut, no incident.


Again, I don't get it. Roid-head yelled at Greinke, and Greinke is the one that has to defuse the situation? Yet he is the head case.... the people defending Quentin have absolutely zero sense of logic.

I should have warned my catcher?

After I hit him I squared up and barked at him?


And also lack reading comprehension.

That is not remotely what Greinke said or meant. But go on living in this fantasy world.

   71. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4418793)
Cardsfanboy I'm convinced you never played the game beyond tee ball and yet all of your comments have an arrogant air about them. Like you know something we don't. You have an opinion, that's all. And you're endless unsubstantiated roid accusations are just embarrassing. Bit somehow I know that won't stop some holier than thou comeback. Logic? Show some evidence of Quentin taking roids? And how do you ignore the fact it was his first charge in 260+ HBP's? Selective nonsense.

99% of them- laughter. Just ridiculous.
   72. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:28 PM (#4418795)
think many of you on here are the people who say "If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have flirted with those guys". It's ridiculous. Quentin charged the mound. In case you people missed it. Quentin charged the mound. He had 40+ feet to think of his actions and yet, he continued on his roided up rage and charged the mound. That is the part I just don't get defending. I don't care if Greinke said "quit leaning over"... or even "let's go" it doesn't change the simple fact that Quentin charged the mound and was 100% in the wrong, even if he thinks he was justified.



Here's the thing cfb, whether Carlos is 100 percent in the wrong has no bearing on how we view Greinke's actions. At no point have I defended Carlos Quentin, who is absolutely guilty and worthy of a longer punishment than he received*, and nothing Greinke did or did not do justifies Quentin's conduct.

But like the dumbass O.J. comment, the rape analogy is terribly flawed (as they usually are)**. The flirty girl or the girl wearing a short skirt didn't actually do anything to the rapist. See, but here, and I know the Greinke apologists really try to forget this part, Greinke hit Carlos Quentin with a pitch. That's actually where the whole thing started. It really happened. It wasn't just a figment of Carlos Quentin's imagination. And it wasn't a case of Carlos hanging over the plate and taking a possible strike and turning it into an HBP. It was three inches inside the batter's box, a space that belongs to the batter, not the pitcher.

Now, I know, this is where you say, "But it wasn't intentional." That's somewhat meaningful, but it's not everything. The HBP doesn't smart any less if the pitch was not thrown with intent to plunk (not that this one would likely have been a terribly painful HBP). Intentional or not, the HBP was Greinke's fault. He hit Quentin, a guy who already believed he was a target for Greinke pitches (a fact Greinke was aware of).

The prudent thing to do in that situation is to indicate that it was your mistake (you know, SINCE IT WAS). It's not the time to be a badass. Greinke elected to be the tough guy who was going to stand up to this #######, and he got himself busted because of it.

Now, as you and others have said, Greinke has no obligation to make nice. But if you're going to play the tough guy role and enhance, rather than reduce, the likelihood of a bout, then you really don't warrant much sympathy when you get broken.

* As do all mound chargers. I'd ding Carlos harder because of how aggressively he went after Greinke.

** A much better analogy, which also has the benefit of not trivializing rape, is my wallet scenario. If I leave my wallet on the dashboard of my car and the windows down and the wallet gets stolen, I'm a dumbass. Almost no one would feel sorry for me for my plight.

However, my dumbassery doesn't mitigate the crime. If the guy who stole the wallet gets caught, he can't use "but your honor, it was just sitting right there on the dashboard" as a defense. That's what we have here. Carlos is 100 percent guilty, which all but the deranged understand. But Quentin's absolute guilt does not mean that Greinke is immune from culpability for what transpired. Responsibility, unlike effort, doesn't have to add to 100 percent. It's not a lot of responsibility, but it's enough for me to not feel bad*** about his injury.

*** Especially when coupled with his undeniably dickish radio comments, which likely fed into Quentin's dislike for him, though it can't really be part of the equation here.
   73. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4418798)
Using the logic other people use.

Greinke has hit 59 people in his professional career and this is the first time anyone has charged him. That has to tell you something about Quentin.

The stupidity of that logic is staggering. I don't doubt for a second that Quentin thinks he's justified in his action. Heck almost anything anybody does they think they are justified in their action. I just don't see anything to suggest he actually WAS justified in his actions.

   74. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:32 PM (#4418801)
SoSH-

"The prudent thing to do in that situation is to indicate that it was your mistake (you know, SINCE IT WAS). It's not the time to be a badass. Greinke elected to be the tough guy who was going to stand up to this #######, and he got himself busted because of it."

Agreed.

Cardsroidboy - "Again, I don't get it. Roid-head yelled at Greinke..." Do you even know how stupid this sounds? Yeah, I can use the word STUPID too.
   75. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:40 PM (#4418804)
Cardsfanboy I'm convinced you never played the game beyond tee ball


And I'm the one with the arrogant air... get over yourself. Yes I played ball past T-ball, not past high school. Who ####### cares. You don't charge the mound period. It's that simple.

Again the roid accusations is just to get under the people defending quentin. I don't care if he did roids, personally I would support league controlled roiding. The simple fact is he acted like an ass and deserves what he got, and deserves to be villified for his actions.

And how do you ignore the fact it was his first charge in 260+ HBP's? Selective nonsense.


Easy.. You ignore it. I don't get why it matters whether he has been hit 1 time or 1000 times. He was hit and charged the mound. That simple. It means he's a hot head. He has been holding a grudge since 2009... How can you look at that and not conclude he has some anger issues?


Now, I know, this is where you say, "But it wasn't intentional." That's somewhat meaningful, but it's not everything. The HBP doesn't smart any less if the pitch was not thrown with intent to plunk (not that this one would likely have been a terribly painful HBP). But it was Greinke's fault. He hit Quentin, a guy who already believed was a target for Greinke pitches (a fact Greinke was aware of).


Actually I don't care whether it was intentional. Quentin charged the mound. That is the only piece of evidence I need to justify condemning Quentin. But if I was interested in the intentional aspect of it, the problem is that you can't carry over other division rivalries into a new team and not give your new team a chance to defend you. There is some discussion that Quentin (along with the other White Sox players) were upset with Ozzie for not defending them in the past when they had these perceived headhunters hunting them. That leads to an attitude that you have to take care of yourself. Now this is four years later, new team for both players, new managers etc...and he gets hit. He needs to calm the #### down and see how his team handles it. Instead he yells at Greinke(and according to Yaz, Greinke is supposed to say "Yes Sir" and back down, instead of say whatever it is he said, which then lit the fuse...again I don't see how Greinke is the headcase here...Quentin is the one who was ready to explode, and yes Greinke didn't defuse the situation, but it wasn't his responsibility to defuse a hothead)


   76. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:43 PM (#4418806)
You know, the ape in the Baseball Think Factory logo is easily the most overly racist thing I've seen here in ten years of reading. And I've had to see it every single day for years.
   77. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4418808)
"And I'm the one with the arrogant air... get over yourself. Yes I played ball past T-ball, not past high school. Who ####### cares. You don't charge the mound period. It's that simple."

I care. And to you - and your simple non-baseball mind its that simple, to those of us who played and faced 90+ heat, it's a bit different. But keep on spouting your defenseless roid nonsense. It suits you.
   78. Tripon Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:48 PM (#4418810)

I care. And to you - and your simple non-baseball mind its that simple, to those of us who played and faced 90+ heat, it's a bit different. But keep on spouting your defenseless roid nonsense. It suits you.


Where in baseball does it say it is allowed to charge the mound?
   79. cardsfanboy Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:54 PM (#4418812)
I care. And to you - and your simple non-baseball mind its that simple, to those of us who played and faced 90+ heat, it's a bit different. But keep on spouting your defenseless roid nonsense. It suits you.


Really...you are pulling the old "I played professional ball" card.... Seriously get over yourself. (I always love the arrogance of people who think their experience lines up with the professionals, but other peoples do not)

Again Quentin charged the mound because he had a 4 year old grudge. He is a head case. He has faced Greinke 18+ times since 2009 when he was hit and hasn't charged the mound. The situation was not the proper time for an intentional hbp, and he had already faced him two times in this particular game. He gets hit, barks at Greinke, and because he didn't get a proper "my bad" he goes ape(yes I went there)####?

If Greinke yelled back at him "I put my balls in your wife face also" it still wouldn't have justified Quentin's actions.

   80. SoSH U at work Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:55 PM (#4418814)
Actually I don't care whether it was intentional. Quentin charged the mound. That is the only piece of evidence I need to justify condemning Quentin.


Thanks for being so nonresponsive.

But I'll play. What if it was intentional? Would you condemn just one of them, or would you condemn both? And if it's the latter, then you've proved my point. We can assign responsibility to a second party without lessening the guilt of the former.

   81. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 18, 2013 at 11:57 PM (#4418815)
I think punishments for charging the mound should be stiffer - but you do that before an incident, not as an immediate response to one. (Fwiw, my thought was that CQ should be out 8-10 games)

I also have no problem with SoSh's idea that the batter has no obligation to get out of the way of a pitch in their box - but that isn't the current rule.

Greinke isn't without culpability here - he did hit a guy (though that's an inevitable part of the job) and could've been more diplomatic after the fact ... but he was hardly inflammatory here.
You know, there's a reason various Padres were apologizing to the Dodgers - there's not a lot of 'he deserves what he got' feelings here.

I don't think either of these guys are head cases and calling them detracts from your arguments.
   82. SoSH U at work Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:00 AM (#4418817)
I also have no problem with SoSh's idea that the batter has no obligation to get out of the way of a pitch in their box - but that isn't the current rule.


In this case, it was kind of immaterial. If Quentin jumps out of the way, the end result is the same - he's on first base. It wasn't as if he stole a base that Greinke wouldn't have given up otherwise.

I think punishments for charging the mound should be stiffer - but you do that before an incident, not as an immediate response to one. (Fwiw, my thought was that CQ should be out 8-10 games)


No, I don't think you can suddenly slap him with 30 games. I just would like to see baseball boost the bans for this idiocy.

   83. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:01 AM (#4418818)
Tripon - My objection is to the unsubstantiated repeated, holier than thou accusations of Quentin being a roid-rager. You want to change the topic to some Straw Man go for it. I don't condone Quentin charging the mound, never have - but the Greinke apologists on this site are an embarrassment given the whole story. I agree with MANY other sensible posts in this thread and others that if this was Aceves or someone other than nerdfanboy Greinke this wouldn't even be a story. Nor would it be much of a story if one of his Dodger teammates didn't land on him and break his 140 million dollar collar bone.

And just curious. Have you stood in the box against 90+heat?

Its human nature if you feel you're life and livelihood are being threatened to defend yourself. Especially when the head case with the lethal projectile, who has hit you several times before - tells you to Eff off afterward.

Der K - you may not like it but only one of these two players took time off from the game for mental reasons.

"Really...you are pulling the old "I played professional ball" card.... Seriously get over yourself."

Everyone of your comments suggests some sort of superior knowledge if the game like you know something we don't. No, you have an opinion and in this case, my baseball experience has direct relevance. Whether you think so or like it or whatever.
   84. cardsfanboy Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:04 AM (#4418822)
What if it was intentional? Would you condemn just one of them, or would you condemn both? And if it's the latter, then you've proved my point. We can assign responsibility to a second party without lessening the guilt of the former.


Let's say it was intentional.

If we are saying that we somehow read Greinke's mind and we know it was intentional, but there has been no other evidence out there to suggest it was intentional other than that? If that is the case, there is nothing to do, and you have to let the teams handle it, the way they have handled it for 100+ years.

If it was intentional and Greinke admitted it to someone and we get that information, then I'm fully on board with a 8 game suspension (note: 8 games is the minimum suspension I think a starting pitcher should ever get..drawback is of course the fairness of that particular rule if it was ever enforced) when he comes back from his injury. Although on appeal, I might waive that suspension since the 8 weeks he is going to be out, is probably sufficient punishment.


The problem I have with Quentin's actions, beyond the obvious(he charged the mound) is that he was on a new team, and didn't trust his teammates enough to have his back. Baseball has an way of handling this, and mound charges are usually the last resort or boiling up of intense heated rivalries or an intense series etc. This was a lone wolf crusade that was a slap to his teams face. You don't expect to see a madman in the first week of the season, on a new team exploding over a 4 year old rivalry that nobody on either side has a clue about.

   85. Lars6788 Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:09 AM (#4418823)
Ape in this context probably means a dumb meathead who is seen taking his frustrations on a defenseless choir boy with a personality disorder.

I don't need to see why Quentin is demonized as an ape though - it's professional sports and sometimes guys get into this sort of nonsense.

Up to the point Quentin was hit, Greinke probably felt like he was carving these guys up and could do anything he wanted - until he went a little too far and in towards the wrong guy and a brawl started with Greinke getting injured.

IF Greinke couldn't cut it - he could have walked away from the game years ago.

   86. cardsfanboy Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:12 AM (#4418825)
Ape in this context probably means a dumb meathead


Just like roid rage in the context I used meant hotheaded dumbass who explodes for any perceived slight...and not an actual reference to whether he takes roids or not.
   87. SoSH U at work Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:13 AM (#4418826)
If we are saying that we somehow read Greinke's mind and we know it was intentional, but there has been no other evidence out there to suggest it was intentional other than that? If that is the case, there is nothing to do, and you have to let the teams handle it, the way they have handled it for 100+ years.


Good Christ, I wasn't suggesting it was intentional. I'm asking you a simple question: if we knew (say Greinke admitted as much after the game) that this was intentional, would you condemn Greinke for it? And if you would, would you then would absolve Quentin's conduct fully as a result, or would you consider them both worthy of condemnation?

Hopefully, you would condemn them both. Which would show that whether Quentin is "100 percent guilty" doesn't have to affect how we view Greinke's culpability. Now, you're under no obligation to consider whether Greinke contributed and how much, but I think that's a simpleton's way of viewing it.
   88. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:17 AM (#4418828)
With the amount of damage steroids and the whole PED era has caused to the game I love, I have very little patience for non-playing holier than thou internet posters who repeatedly and arrogantly accuse and taint a player with unsubstantiated accusations to make themselves sound like they know something. Especially on this site, where the bar has always been higher than this pathetic nonsense.


"Just like roid rage in the context I used meant hotheaded dumbass who explodes for any perceived slight...and not an actual reference to whether he takes roids or not."

And here's the pathetic walk back. .

Any perceived slight? Hot head? The man has been hit more times than just about anyone in MLB history. Just dumb.
   89. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:20 AM (#4418830)
Yaz - I see no relationship b/w Greinke's leave of absence and a dude who hits guys on purpose, a rep he doesn't have.

Incidentally, what he did* is a little more common than you'd think, if stories I've heard about trumpeted up DL stints are true. Not frequent, but certainly more than is reported.
* not how he did it, mind you. Tact is not his strength - and his dogging it was a real problem.
   90. Tripon Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:24 AM (#4418831)
Tripon - My objection is to the unsubstantiated repeated, holier than thou accusations of Quentin being a roid-rager. You want to change the topic to some Straw Man go for it.


Uh... you're the one who claimed that charging the mound is allowed. I know I didn't claim Quentin takes steroids, but I do think he has anger problems, and my evidence is that he injured another player when he was angry.

   91. SoSH U at work Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:26 AM (#4418834)
but I do think he has anger problems, and my evidence is that he injured another player when he was angry.


Wouldn't it be more accurate to say another player got injured as a result (or byproduct) of his anger? Greinke suffered the injury during the pileup when he was separated from Quentin, didn't he?

   92. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:27 AM (#4418835)
Der K - OK. I've never said he had conscious intent. But clearly Quentin was in his head as his suggestion of warning Ellis proves. And the fact remains the kid had social anxiety disorder and when in a tight confrontation with a nemesis, who leans out over the plate - it happened.

Share a trumped up DL stint story with me, I'd like to hear it.

Tripon - read closely what SoSH just said. And I have never claimed it was allowed, that's another Straw Man - I said it's human nature.
   93. cardsfanboy Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:31 AM (#4418838)
I'm asking you a simple question: if we knew (say Greinke admitted as much after the game) that this was intentional, would you condemn Greinke for it? And if you would, would you then would absolve Quentin's conduct fully as a result, or would you consider them both worthy of condemnation?


I wouldn't absolve Quentin at all. Again he charged the mound. That is nearly an unforgivable action in my opinion. I understand it happens from time to time, and you can't control building up of pressure etc, but that doesn't mean it's forgivable.

I would probably condemn Greinke too, but considering that his "intentional" hbp was done in the way that is "acceptable" in the majors, not really sure what else we could do. I don't forgive Pedro for his headhunting ways either, but I don't really hold it against him either.

And here's the pathetic walk back.


I don't really care about what you think. Quentin committed a sin in baseball, in my book that is an action that gives me full right to pick on him as much as I want. He charged the mound. I think that is a supremely despicable act. I think that a guy who harbors a grudge for 4 years, 18+ at bats against a guy, has some mental issues he needs to work through.

I don't think he did roids, for the simple fact, I don't think anyone does roids until actual evidence is produced. This is the U.S. I defended the innocent before proven guilty mantra in every roid thread we have had on here, and will continue to do so. Having said that, it doesn't mean I'm not going to call hotheaded actions roid rage, especially if it's with someone who I currently rate as a despicable player. (note my opinion might change on him in a few weeks, as, unlike Quentin, I do not hold grudges against someone for any length of time)
   94. Tripon Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:34 AM (#4418839)

Tripon - read closely what SoSH just said. And I have never claimed it was allowed, that's another Straw Man - I said it's human nature.


I'm not even sure what we're arguing about now. If charging the mound against a person you dislike, but its not allowed, how is that any better?
   95. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:34 AM (#4418841)
"I don't think he did roids..." Even though you said it a hundred times. "Pick on him as much as I want"

The childish walk back continues. I think you should just stop now.
   96. Tripon Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:41 AM (#4418843)
"I don't think he did roids..." Even though you said it a hundred times. "Pick on him as much as I want"

The childish walk back continues. I think you should just stop now.


Uh.... what.
   97. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:46 AM (#4418849)
Piazza's Backne!
Clemens' Rage!
Fat head of Bonds!
Double Double Toil and Trouble,
Make this a steroid thread and bubble!

<enter the Thane of Milwaukee, Braun, stage right>
   98. cardsfanboy Posted: April 19, 2013 at 12:58 AM (#4418855)
Uh.... what.


It's a personal attack against me. Seems that frustrated ex-pro baseball players like Yaz here has nothing better to do than make a personal attack against some internet nerdbody. Good thing I'm not pitching against him, he might think it's justified to charge me.

   99. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 01:07 AM (#4418859)
Not wanting to risk libel (I could've heard wrong) or offer lame hints, I'll note a not too concealed recent example (nowadays, teams actually do use the dl for mental health reasons): when Votto went on the DL for the umpteenth time in '09, it was initially explained as stress related to inner ear issues. In truth, it was primarily because he was struggling to cope with the death of his father the prior year.
   100. Yastrzemski in left. Posted: April 19, 2013 at 01:18 AM (#4418864)
Cardfanboy - Frustrated - hardly. But another very weak try. Charge you? Please, I bet you can't even get out of your bed.

Responding to your arrogant, holier than thou nonsense, which you have totally walked back to the point of saying you might even "like" Quentin in a few weeks.

So in other words you just like to hear yourself talk.

It's laughable. And you've denigrated this site with your unsubstantiated, nonsensical attacks.

Good night now.
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