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Thursday, February 21, 2013

Passan: Big Papi takes swings at rekindling Idiots era magic, sabermetrics and retirement

GOT HEEEEMOSTATS TO STOP THE BLEEDING!

“The day is going to come where you’re not able to do what you do,” he says. “And once that day shows up, you’ve got to take it to the house. You train yourself to get used to it. It happens to everybody. I don’t want to be the guy who waits too long.

“Here’s my philosophy: I’m gonna keep helicoptering the ball. If I helicopter the ball and it don’t go nowhere, it’s enough.”

...It’s what Cherington tried to replicate this offseason. The locker next to Ortiz’s? Shane Victorino, another signee. Next to his? Gomes’. The Red Sox, so long sabermetric slaves, shook off the objective analysis that said $39 million is too much for an aging Victorino, and a multiyear deal for Gomes is wrongheaded considering never before had the 32-year-old warranted more than one-year contracts. This is no narrative created for them. The Red Sox made it themselves: The happy-go-lucky Sox, taking a sledgehammer to the past, even if the past isn’t all that far away.

“You know, I think the computer is [expletive] up this game a lot,” Ortiz says.

It is pointed out that the computers actually love Ortiz as a player, that the computers sustained his career when the Minnesota Twins gave up on him and the Red Sox picked him up, convinced full-time at-bats would unleash his potential, which, more than 400 career home runs later, they certainly did. None of this seems to change Ortiz’s mind. The fun of 2004 – shots of Jack Daniel’s before the game, Manny Being Manny, “Dirty Water” blaring, Kevin Millar braying to “cowboy up” – embedded itself so deeply into his consciousness, he cannot fathom any other way for a team to win. He was able to slink along in the background with all the other big personalities, a secondary joke cracker, a third-string troll. By no means the center of everything.

Repoz Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:28 AM | 66 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, red sox, sabermetrics

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   1. catomi01 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:14 AM (#4373211)
Jack Daniel’s before the game


Jack before the game = good clubhouse chemistry....beer during the game = the collapse of a great franchise.
   2. AROM Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:23 AM (#4373214)
They should try beer before the game, then Jack in the middle innings.

A little revision going on here. 2003 Red Sox were not convinced that Ortiz would unlock his potential with regular play. If they were, then why bring in Jeremy Giambi ( a big SABR fav at the time)? Ortiz earned regular play by not stinking up the place in the first half, as Giambi did.
   3. SG Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:27 AM (#4373218)
They should try beer before the game, then Jack in the middle innings.


I thought the rule was: beer before liquor, never sicker; Liquor before beer, you're in the clear?
   4. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:32 AM (#4373221)
I only know the beer/wine rule:
Beer on wine, fine
Wine on beer, fear
   5. tfbg9 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:41 AM (#4373225)
I heard it as:
"Whiskey then beer? No fear. Beer then whiskey? Pretty risky."
   6. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4373227)
I always thought those turn of phrases existed to give drunks an excuse the next morning for their hangovers. I never should have had those 5 shots after drinking that six pack. Should have had the shots BEFORE, duh! In my particular case, if I'm busting out the tequila, I'm in no condition to be busting out the tequila...
   7. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4373256)
BITD it went like this:

Whiskey makes you frisky
Gin makes you sin
And beer makes you queer
   8. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4373271)
Wasn't there an Onion article, something about "Man Always Has Excuse For Hangover," or something like that?

I've always thought the theory was that if you drank beer, then liquor, you were likely to get sick because the alcohol in the beer is abosrbed more slowly, whereas the liquor is quicker (of course) so the combined effects hit you all at once. I think Shooty's first sentence in #6 is probably closest to the truth. I can also verify you can get plenty sick drinking just beer, just liquor, or any combination thereof.
   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4373279)
While there are other issues than dehydration, hangovers are still mostly dehydration, and preventing hangovers is mostly about hydration. Following every other rule will do way less for you than just hydrating. The rules always struck me more as ritual/placebo than anything.
   10. zonk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4373285)
While there are other issues than dehydration, hangovers are still mostly dehydration, and preventing hangovers is mostly about hydration. Following every other rule will do way less for you than just hydrating. The rules always struck me more as ritual/placebo than anything.


While I wholeheartedly agree -

I think one should also avoid cheap spirits... if you're going to be drinking gin, vodka (and why you'd do that is beyond me), whiskey (which I understand but hate), etc -- stay away from the cheap stuff.

No amount of hydration overcomes the crap that comes in a plastic handle of liquor.

There are not a lot of things in this world where I believe you absolutely, positively, almost unconditionally get what you pay for.... but gin is one of them!
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4373289)
beer before liquor - get drunk quicker
   12. vivaelpujols Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4373291)
Yes the anti-sabermetric Victorino signing is a great 180 from the totally sabermetric Crawford signing. Idiots era indeed!
   13. The District Attorney Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4373295)
I always heard the "never sicker"/"all clear" formulation.

The Red Sox, so long sabermetric slaves, shook off the objective analysis that said $39 million is too much for an aging Victorino, and a multiyear deal for Gomes is wrongheaded considering never before had the 32-year-old warranted more than one-year contracts.
Or it could be the complete opposite and they're going by the Fangraphs logic that toe fungus is worth $10 million a year.

Most likely, the truth is somewhere in the middle: they're paying more attention to "personality" this year, but are still basically using sabermetric principles to decide how to dole out the limited amount of money they had decided to budget.
   14. tfbg9 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4373303)
hangovers are still mostly dehydration


Yes, conventional ones are, six-pack to a couple six packs. But try drinking like 17+ drinks, as in a fifth of JD+,
and you're into the whole psychological hell realm of crushing, blasto hangovers. Its the way you feel, for instance, Monday AM, after drinkng Friday after work straight through to 4AM Sunday morning, with a quick 5 hour sleep break. Trust me, dehydration is the least of your worries. It can take 72 hours until you feel human again, no matter how much water you gulp.

Everybody's reactions are different, but I remember talking with drinking buddies as a young buck, and many of us
agreed the tortured mental state was the worst part, by a mile.

Drinking is a young man's game, for sure. Good riddance.
   15. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: February 21, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4373315)
But try drinking like 17+ drinks, as in a fifth of JD+

Holy Toledo! I'm pretty sure that would kill me. Literally.
   16. tfbg9 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4373321)
Holy Toledo! I'm pretty sure that would kill me. Literally.


I'm Irish. It's a skill, like anything else. You have a beer/drink every half hour from 6PM until 3AM, there's eighteen right there.
The cigarettes would keep you alert.
   17. JJ1986 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4373323)
The Red Sox, so long sabermetric slaves, shook off the objective analysis that said $39 million is too much for an aging Victorino, and a multiyear deal for Gomes is wrongheaded considering never before had the 32-year-old warranted more than one-year contracts.


Because the Red Sox recent past does not involve signing aging veterans to bloated contracts.
   18. zonk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4373333)
I'm Irish. It's a skill, like anything else. You have a beer/drink every half hour from 6PM until 3AM, there's eighteen right there.
The cigarettes would keep you alert.


Heh... amen.

It is indeed a young man's game -- but just like a veteran Maddux using what the umps giving him, Cal Ripken cheating on positioning as the range goes, or Soriano switching to a lighter bat -- you can cheat a bit...

First - you have to banish any thought of being good to go the next day... only undertake it if you can afford to sleep - or at least lounge around -- till early afternoon the following day.

Second - there's no shame in sprinkling in some nibbles.

Third - stick with good quality liquor and actually enjoy it... you tend to throw down less if you actually focus instead on enjoying what you're drinking. In the long run, it may only save you a drink or two - but every little bit counts.

Fourth - pass on the shots... Shots after college should be limited to very small and specific set of situations where the aim is specifically to get drunk (like a bachelor party). Shots have zero purpose outside of this.

Fifth - contrary to the never sicker/all clear cliches -- DO mix it up... 10 consecutive scotch rocks tend to snowball... mix it up with a couple gimlets, a beer, etc -- and your palate will naturally slow you down and prevent catastrophic acceleration

   19. tfbg9 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4373338)
18 is all good, except I disagree strongly on the mix-it up suggestion. I recommend the slow and steady approach as well. Its a marathon, not a sprint. And gulping water will help to a point.

As for hangovers? There's always the old "Short-term Solution". It works every time, like a Colt 45.
   20. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4373370)
I think one should also avoid cheap spirits... if you're going to be drinking gin, vodka (and why you'd do that is beyond me), whiskey (which I understand but hate), etc -- stay away from the cheap stuff.

I have no idea why anybody would drink gin...
   21. The Good Face Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4373372)
It is indeed a young man's game -- but just like a veteran Maddux using what the umps giving him, Cal Ripken cheating on positioning as the range goes, or Soriano switching to a lighter bat -- you can cheat a bit...


Huh, I've found that I'm following the Moises Alou aging curve. I can still drink like I did as a young man, but I can't stay healthy long enough to do it regularly. In my youth a 3 or even 4 day bender was nothing, but now I pretty much max out at 2 consecutive days of super heavy drinking; the body just won't let me drink fast enough to get hammered on the third night.
   22. tfbg9 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4373373)
21-how old are you?
   23. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:23 PM (#4373375)
Once I can get 8 hours of sleep, I'm usually fine. Generally speaking, the only issue is whether I'll barf (which has happened twice with me). But those times, it was after a lot of drinks, more than 20.

I don't really drink anywhere near that much anymore, generally no more than 2-3 drinks. More than that and I start to get acid reflux issues. Drinking works well for me socially - it dulls my brain just enough that I won't hear every damn conversation in the room.
   24. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 01:28 PM (#4373379)
Good gin is heavan. Nothing beats lounging around on a summer day drinking gin and tonic!
   25. The Good Face Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:01 PM (#4373400)
21-how old are you?


Old enough to know better...
   26. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: February 21, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4373402)
I love gin! It's perhaps because my grandmother made a lot of German cuisine (she was a trained chef, though didn't work in the field, so I got a lot of French food growing up, too), so juniper has a very familiar taste to me.
   27. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4373433)
Gin is delicious. Fact. There's a reason so many of the classic cocktails are gin-based.
   28. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4373437)
of course never get the well gin, tastes terrible, always worth the money for the better stuff.
   29. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: February 21, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4373463)
21 - how many drinks does it take before you pee on your own hands?
   30. zonk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:10 PM (#4373500)
OK, fancy --

You just made the deportation list.

Meat's right -- a good gin is heaven.

I likewise agree that well gin is garbage - the gap is so huge that I wouldn't touch plastic bottle gin under any circumstances... I'd rather stay sober.

That means I don't have a drinking problem, right?
   31. Walt Davis Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4373510)
And beer makes you queer

Hello sailor!

Second - there's no shame in sprinkling in some nibbles.

Eating is cheating.


   32. The Good Face Posted: February 21, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4373520)
I likewise agree that well gin is garbage - the gap is so huge that I wouldn't touch plastic bottle gin under any circumstances... I'd rather stay sober.

That means I don't have a drinking problem, right?


It means you don't have a drink... which sounds like a problem to me.

   33. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:11 PM (#4373560)
OK, fancy --

You just made the deportation list.

Gin is the worst of all liquors. Fact.

And you can't deport me, I am not in your country.
   34. zonk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:45 PM (#4373585)

Gin is the worst of all liquors. Fact.

And you can't deport me, I am not in your country.


I think you underestimate the geographic breadth of my threat.
   35. madvillain Posted: February 21, 2013 at 05:58 PM (#4373590)
I used to be able to drink 10+ drinks when I was 18-25 and have zero problem the next day as long as I remembered to hydrate before I stumbled into bed. Sure I had hangovers, but they weren't the sort of soul-sapping energy drainers that they are now at 29.

Can't wait until I'm 40. I'll probably be down to 3 drinks max before I feel like crap the next day.
   36. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:06 PM (#4373595)
Gin is the worst of all liquors. Fact.

Tequila gives it a good run for the title. Tastes like dirt and sweat.
   37. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:12 PM (#4373598)
The ballad I heard was: "Whiskey on Beer, Never Fear; Beer on Whiskey, Always Risky". In practice, massive quantities of either, or a mixture thereof, can cause you some problems. Some folks take longer than others to figure this out.

   38. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:23 PM (#4373608)
Tequila gives it a good run for the title. Tastes like dirt and sweat.
100% de agave tequila is delicious. It has a bright, floral flavor. If the tequila isn't labeled 100% de agave, it isn't tequila. It's 51% tequila and 49% random rotgut. This is why, for instance, Cuervo tastes like total ####.
   39. tfbg9 Posted: February 21, 2013 at 06:43 PM (#4373620)
In my experience, gin and tequila result in the most brutal hangovers. I read somewhere that gin has, naturally, far more "impurities"
than other forms of liquor. I dunno what the hell that even is supposed to mean, but that was the reason given for the bad hangovers, as
compared to the relative simplicity of vodka's make-up.
   40. zonk Posted: February 21, 2013 at 08:13 PM (#4373660)
In my experience, gin and tequila result in the most brutal hangovers. I read somewhere that gin has, naturally, far more "impurities"
than other forms of liquor. I dunno what the hell that even is supposed to mean, but that was the reason given for the bad hangovers, as
compared to the relative simplicity of vodka's make-up.


I hadn't heard that about gin -- but had about the impurities (more being a reason why you should stay away from the cheap stuff in general)...


I got a very nice bottle of "Old Tom" gin (Ransom) for xmas -- which is darker/caramel colored and a tad sweeter than dry gin -- and I can attest that overindulging in it did cause a wee bit more of the next morning head pounding than the same amount of a dry gin. It's still quite tasty though.


Oh, and Snapper goes on the deportation watch list -- I still haven't decided whether hatred of Tequila rises to the level of expulsion or not (I'm a fan, but it's a distant second to a good gin).

   41. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:00 PM (#4373673)
“The day is going to come where you’re not able to do what you do,” he says. “And once that day shows up, you’ve got to take it to the house. You train yourself to get used to it. It happens to everybody. I don’t want to be the guy who waits too long.

He'll probably have a book coming out right after he retires: Last Idiot -- The Big Papi Story by David Ortiz & Dan Shaughnessy.
   42. zenbitz Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:13 PM (#4373677)
I actually got MUCH worse hangovers when I was younger. Maybe I drank more, I dunno... but I have gotten a hangover from <2 beers. I have gotten a big fat headache hangover WHILE drinking (Champagne, though, hardly counts).

I do think I can drink much more than I can in my early 20s because I weigh 185 instead of 165. I also think my liver is better at metabolizing (less binging more ~daily drinks? I dunno).

If it wasn't for bad hangovers though, I would probably have become an alcoholic. The worse hangover I ever had (remember it like it was yesterday) I had one for 3 days after new year's eve 1990. The first day, all I could do was drag myself down the hall to dry heave.

For me, the unpleasantness of the hangover is the nausea. My wife gets these too -- much worse than me these days. A little headache or light sensitivity isn't so bad. I was actually a little hungover at work (a first!) after the Super Bowl this year - I felt a little off and not very sharp.

I have heard so many theories on hangovers, but never once a read a controlled study. Partially dehydration, partially absorbtion, partially weird chemicals (why red wine, champaign and off-brand liquors are so bad). Some people blame sugary mixed drinks (might also apply with wine)

But mostly (duh) it's drinking too much damn alcohol. I am 90% sure mixing has nothing to do with it - just that when you are mixing you tend to abuse.

If I have 3 beers and 3 shots it's not going to give me a worse hangover than 6 of either. (assuming the shots are actually 1.5 oz and not doubles).

If you remember a few years back a product called "Chaser" - a pill that you took to prevent hangovers. Turns out, it was just charcoal. It DID prevent hangovers. And getting drunk. (at least according to some friends of mine who tried it)
   43. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 21, 2013 at 09:31 PM (#4373680)
Does anyone not get hungover? I confess I can never relate to other people complaining how bad they feel the morning after. The worst that happens to me is I wake up groggy with a headache, but after a couple asprin and a shower, I'm fine. I don't blame you if you don't believe me.
   44. tfbg9 Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:16 AM (#4373730)
Well, how many drinks are we talking about, Doc?
   45. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:28 AM (#4373735)
Gin is delicious. Fact. There's a reason so many of the classic cocktails are gin-based.

I've recently been making my girl Hendricks martinis instead of Tanqueray. What's the feeling over here on those two?


Does anyone not get hungover?

Yes, me. But I've probably had about one glass of wine total over the last two years. That helps.


   46. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:39 AM (#4373742)
I can put away 6-8 beers in a few hours before I get sleepy and just go to bed. When I go out, I usually have about 4 pairs of shots of whiskey and beers, or 3-4 strong cocktails if I'm at a cocktail joint. When I was younger, I could do more, and didn't concern myself much with liquor before beer. I have definitely spent my share of nights kneeling before the toilet, but I've never blacked out, and I've never not remembered what I did the night before, though I've definitely done stupid shiit. In the morning I'm fine. Am I doing it wrong?
   47. zonk Posted: February 22, 2013 at 01:31 AM (#4373750)
I've recently been making my girl Hendricks martinis instead of Tanqueray. What's the feeling over here on those two?


Hendricks - and it's not even close.... We're talking the difference between Tony and Chris Gwynn here...

I have definitely spent my share of nights kneeling before the toilet, but I've never blacked out, and I've never not remembered what I did the night before, though I've definitely done stupid shiit. In the morning I'm fine. Am I doing it wrong?


Ahhhh.... see - that's the key. Those are the massive, soul-crushing, head-splitting hangovers -- the ones that stick with you for an entire day. The following day then transitions into a 'standard' aspirin-shower-not gonna do anything strenuous hangover. I can't do those more than once a year or so.

Oddly enough - there's usually (not always, but usually) a point of lucidity under those conditions.... My friends and I use to call it hitting the plateau. You'd almost suddenly regain some balance, stop slurring, speaking lucidly -- and even show sound judgment. The last few years, I've only gotten that deep in on annual Vegas trip I take with some buddies. It may sound unbelievable, but instead of getting really stupid - I'd be informed the next day that instead of making stupid bets and hitting the ATM unwisely, I'd instead throttle bets way back, actually stick to the a 'get up from the table' limit, and even get up from the table and just go to breakfast.... not remembering any of it.

I know it's physiologically impossible, but one of my friends used to theorize that the standard brain cell kill had become a genocide and it had suddenly compensated by pouring a fresh batch of unbroken cells into the breach, completely giving up on a big chunk of dying ones for lost.
   48. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:21 AM (#4373757)
Hendricks is no Tony Gwynn - Hendricks is maybe Chris Gwynn, and Tanqueray is Bob Gwynn. I've been drinking the Blackwood's 60 - that is a nice gin.

And the worst liquor is Baijiu. Or, at least, I've never had any that wasn't less pleasant than just drinking straight alcohol.
   49. zenbitz Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:44 AM (#4373759)
I prefer tanqerey to hendricks, bombay saffire, et. Its the most juniper-y. The fancier gins are too subtle and close to vodka for me. This goes for both martinis and gin n tonic.

But i prefer Laphroaig scotch, too even the 10 year over the smoother 15. I just like strong flavored spirits, as long as they arent too sweet
   50. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 22, 2013 at 07:20 AM (#4373771)
There's nothing wrong with Tanqueray. It's just so aggressively flavored that if you're making an actual martini (depending on taste, 2:1 or 3:1 with fresh vermouth), you're not going to get a good balance. Tanqueray is a good gin for highballs, like a gin and tonic. For classic cocktails, I really like Beefeater. It's a simple, well-balanced, quality gin. I am not a fan of Sapphire - it has a weird off taste, to me. Hendricks is certainly good stuff.
   51. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2013 at 08:08 AM (#4373773)
Thanks, guys. More just curious than anything else. She's quite used to the Tanqueray, so it was a bit off for her at first, but she's warming to it.
   52. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 22, 2013 at 09:56 AM (#4373801)
And the worst liquor is Baijiu. Or, at least, I've never had any that wasn't less pleasant than just drinking straight alcohol.
I was trying to think if there was any entire category of liquor I dislike. I'm not a vodka fan, but that's because there's not anything there to dislike. Baijiu, on the other hand, I have tried several times on the theory that anything that a billion people get drunk off must have some quality, and I am growing convinced it's a prank. I don't mean it's a prank on idiot Westerners like myself who will try anything that's supposedly popular in China (which I realize seems unlikely and would require implausible coordination), but I'm guessing it was a prank pulled a millennium ago in China that somehow took on a life of its own, possibly ironically at first, then it grew until no one knew that it wasn't just a drink you have to get used to - I don't know. But there has to be a back story.
   53. The Good Face Posted: February 22, 2013 at 11:04 AM (#4373846)
Gin is delicious. Fact. There's a reason so many of the classic cocktails are gin-based.

I've recently been making my girl Hendricks martinis instead of Tanqueray. What's the feeling over here on those two?


Hendricks makes for a much better martini than Tanqueray, but for best results, garnish with thin cucumber slices; avoid olives or a twist. Bombay Sapphire also makes for a good martini, but is best garnished with a twist. For G&T or any mixed highball style cocktail, Brueckelen Gin is fantastic; not ideal for martinis IMO though. If I had to pick one all-purpose gin though, I'd probably go with Hendricks.
   54. PreservedFish Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4373972)
I believe the point of the "beer before liquor" thing is this: if you are already drunk when you make the switch from one type of alcohol to the other, it's smarter to be switching to beer simply because the simple volume of liquid that you need to consume makes it more difficult to drink to excess. If you are already drunk and THEN you start knocking back shots, you can down them with insane speed. So I think it's a good guideline. "Beer before liquor" simply leads to drinking more alcohol than the opposite.
   55. zenbitz Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4374007)
I am a barbarian but i make my martinis with tanq from the freezer, 4:1 vermouth and a few cocktail onions. Maybe with a 1/2 tsp of onion juice.
   56. Nasty Nate Posted: February 22, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4374012)
Oddly enough - there's usually (not always, but usually) a point of lucidity under those conditions....


Yes, the super-drunk lucidity thing. I know what you mean.
   57. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: February 22, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4374050)
21-how old are you?

Old enough to know better...


Cry, baby, cry.
   58. BrianBrianson Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:01 PM (#4374060)
Znebitz - that's quite civilized. Usually I drink gin neat, at room temp. Occasionally I'll make a martini with a good amount of gin and the smallest possible amount of vermouth that can be called an amount of vermouth. I can't understand why you'd want more than that.
   59. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4374067)
I'll make a martini with a good amount of gin and the smallest possible amount of vermouth that can be called an amount of vermouth.
That is not a martini. That is a glass of cold gin. A martini is a beautiful cocktail with a long history, and it includes vermouth in at least a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. The earliest recipes, from the early 20th century as dry vermouth started to steal people's palates away from sweet - the Manhattan precedes the Martini, historically, both were invented in New York City - are in the range of 1:1, it seems to have settled toward 2:1 or 3:1 around the period of prohibition. A 50:50 martini is an excellent drink if you have a high enough quality vermouth (I like Dolin).

Vermouth is, in essence, wine. Like wine, it goes bad quickly. If you have a refridgerated bottle of dry vermouth that's a month old, it's gone bad. If it's been at room temperature, it's bad once it's a week or two old. (Sweet vermouth can last a little longer, but also will go bad.) Vermouth, if it hasn't gone bad, has an aromatic and lightly sweet quality that perfectly complements the complex flavors in the gin. I like 1.5 oz of gin and .75 oz of dry vermouth, with a dash of orange bitters, stirred with ice and strained.
   60. Darren Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4374080)
Getting back to baseball (sorry), does anyone remember that the "Idiots" being considered the anti-chemistry team? They were considered a team that was put together with spreadsheets and though they'd win some games, would ultimately fall short for a lack of chemistry?

The Red Sox, so long sabermetric slaves, shook off the objective analysis that said $39 million is too much for an aging Victorino, and a multiyear deal for Gomes is wrongheaded considering never before had the 32-year-old warranted more than one-year contracts.


Wouldn't sabermetric slaves want to sign the guy who's been putting up good WAR totals despite some ugly traditional numbers?
   61. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: February 22, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4374091)
To some writers sabermetrics is simply whatever doesn't work. It's just a chance to take a shot.


Gin is delicious. Fact. There's a reason so many of the classic cocktails are gin-based.


Any tips as to a good cocktail with gin. I'm inspired by this thread and heading on vacation next week so it's a time to explore some new drinks.
   62. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 22, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4374124)
Shane Victorino post up in ST...

Any tips as to a good cocktail with gin.
First, the classics. Get yourself a bottle of dry Vermouth (Dolin, preferably) and a bottle of sweet vermouth (there are a lot) - get the very smallest bottle of each that you can find. Get some orange bitters (Regan's is a good brand) and some old-fashioned bitters (Agnostura is the primary brand and is good, also like Fee's old-fashioned).

1.5 oz gin, .75 oz dry vermouth, dash orange bitters, stir with ice and strain. Martini. Switch in sweet vermouth for a Martinez.

Try a Bronx cocktail. Get a fresh orange, juice it. 1 oz gin, .5 oz sweet vermouth, .5 oz dry vermouth, .5 oz fresh orange juice, dash bitters (I like Agnostura or any "old-fashioned" bitters for this). Shake with ice and strain.

Two other classic gin cocktails are the Corpse Reviver #2 and the Last Word. These require a bit more liquor / liqueur purchasing or a more fully stocked bar. But they're both wonderful drinks.

Corpse Reviver #2: .75 oz gin, .75 oz cointreau, .75 oz Lillet Blanc, .75 oz fresh lemon, dash absinthe, shaken with ice and strained
Last Word: .75 oz gin, .75 oz green chartreuse, .75 oz maraschino, .75 oz fresh lime juice, shaken with ice and strained
   63. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 22, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4374186)
Also the Aviation cocktail. I've found the primary recipes out there to be pretty sour for my palate, so I sweeten with some simple syrup. (1:1 water:sugar)

1.5 gin, .75 fresh lemon juice, .25 maraschino, .25 simple syrup, dash creme de violette, shake with ice, strain

Can be made without the creme de violette, though it's better with.
   64. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 22, 2013 at 05:21 PM (#4374252)
Sweet vermouth is awesome. I have no idea why you would ruin it with gin.
   65. zenbitz Posted: February 22, 2013 at 08:17 PM (#4374365)
Whisky is my room temperature drink.
   66. Mike Emeigh Posted: February 22, 2013 at 08:41 PM (#4374379)
I have had hangovers twice, both times after drinking Southern Comfort. The second time I was doing a football broadcast the following day, in 35 degree temperatures from a partially open press box. I looked like Nanook of the North behind the mike trying to keep warm that afternoon.

-- MWE

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