ASSAN: MORE CONTROVERSY AHEAD FOR SOX

ALSO: WEEI: RED SOX OWNERSHIP LACKING COURAGE

All one can add is, "MR. PRESIDENT."

In fact, they end—I believe I used the words ‘mushroom cloud.’ I think this is the first bomb dropping. Certainly, there will be more.

Ugh, give me a break. Even as an emotional Red Sox fan, I find this absurdly melodramatic. This is a bunch of millionaires who aren't getting along that well, not some explosive grand narrative. There's probably more legitimate drama among the workforce of your local McDonald's.

“As we know, as we’ve seen in the past, unfortunately for the Red Sox, things often do not end well there. In fact, they end—I believe I used the words ‘mushroom cloud.’

Now they've moved from abusing chicken, beer, and painkillers to smoking hallucinogens. When will it end?!

mushroom cloud

You're doing it wrong.

"It's baseball. Guys talk. It's Boston. Guys talk. That's the way that this goes

And yet, somehow, for eight years they managed to keep stuff in the clubhouse. Even the most visible events (Youk-Manny, Varitek-Watney) were murky in the details.

We still don't know why a guy that didn't push down an old man, didn't demand a contract change..."had to go'. Oh, Youk was a Clubhouse Cancer? Well it's a good thing he's gone. I see how much better the team is without him. ####### Mike Lowell was the biggest whiner on earth and the team kept him because there was a 2% chance he would fill a need and do it well.

Is Passan making a push for fame/fortune? My guess is that if it hasn't already, a book publisher will contact him very soon.

a book publisher will contact him very soon

What's the angle? Arn't Tito and Shank already working on a "The Red Sox Years"?

We still don't know why a guy that didn't push down an old man, didn't demand a contract change..."had to go'.

What does this mean? Has the idea that Manny shoved the traveling secretary been disputed?

No, he's talking about the ghastly Youkilis, who was almost certainly the leaker of the Manny/old man incident. Trading him was the best thing Ben's done.

Well the Melky Cabrera 50-game suspension for testosterone should take the heat off this story for a few days.

Oh, karlmagnus, never change

No, he's talking about the ghastly Youkilis, who was almost certainly the leaker of the Manny/old man incident.

Thanks.

No, he's talking about the ghastly Youkilis, who was almost certainly the leaker of the Manny/old man incident.

Didn't that happen in a clubhouse full of media, or am I misremembering?

Didn't that happen in a clubhouse full of media, or am I misremembering?

More or less - it was in front of a lot of people, and I doubt Youkilis was even there. Karlmagnus is just doing his schtick.

I'm tired of this crap. If the players do not like Bobby Valentine, they can #### and moan until October or take that anger and turn it into a positive force to go play better the last weeks of the season.

We had a manager that ticked us off in AA. As the first half of the season progressed, we went from small gripes (old school) to bigger ones (some anti-Hispanic statements/stereotyping, insensitive actions). Once the complaints reached critical mass that June, we got together, talked about it as a team and made a decision - as opposed to whining for the next 70 games and being miserable, it's a hell of a lot more fun to show up every night and go out and win. Let's use the antipathy towards our manager to motivate ourselves and go out and kick butt - and at the same time hopefully help our baseball careers!

We did and won the second half title and had a blast in the process.

I guess a bunch of 20-25 year olds in Shreveport in 1979 were more mature than the entire Boston Red Sox 25 man roster! Winning or whining - it's their call.

Passan reported that players complained to ownership, and the bosses called a meeting in which players aired their grievances.

After the meeting, did they perform feats of strength?

Thank you for that, Vlad.

I'm tired of this crap. If the players do not like Bobby Valentine, they can #### and moan until October or take that anger and turn it into a positive force to go play better the last weeks of the season.

But if they do that, Valentine will be back next year...

But if they do that, Valentine will be back next year...

The Red Sox already did the "fire the manager" routine. If they go the rest of the season without some improvement (and demonstration of some pride), the next step by the organization should be a housecleaning of the talent (or lack thereof), not another managerial change.

No disagreement there... Part of the issue is that the Red Sox have a number of players who are basically immune to threats to their livelihood because of contracts or (in the case of guys like Lester or Pedroia) they are young and very talented. Lots of tough decisions ahead for the Sox here.

I'm tired of this crap. If the players do not like Bobby Valentine, they can #### and moan until October or take that anger and turn it into a positive force to go play better the last weeks of the season.

Repeated for emphasis. At some point, everybody's made their opinions known on the record, so you can either fume and spit and make things worse, or you can go about your business and await further developments.

After everybody has said the same thing once, there's nothing left to say except the same thing louder.

I don't disagree that the players deserve plenty of scorn for their actions but if the Sox don't fire Valentine at the end of the year I'm going to vomit. He's just not the right guy for this situation. Maybe that is not fair to him but the fact is putting a Valentine in the middle of this was asking for trouble.

I said it in one of the 12 or 13 other threads yesterday. What the Sox needed to do was go get a guy similar to Francona to send the message "look, this is on you guys" while at the same time maintaining the culture and attitude that had made 90+ wins the norm. Trading away guys like Lester, Gonzalez and Pedroia for pennies on the dollar is a great way to #### up this organization for several years.

I guess a bunch of 20-25 year olds in Shreveport in 1979 were more mature than the entire Boston Red Sox 25 man roster! Winning or whining - it's their call.

The bad news is you all kept Andy Gilbert in Shreveport for 1 more year.

I don't disagree that the players deserve plenty of scorn for their actions but if the Sox don't fire Valentine at the end of the year

Agreed. They let the greatest manager in the history of the Red Sox go for....? Chasing stats? Losing the clubhouse? Taking pain pills and passing out on the couch? I don't see why something classy couldn't have been arranged like a sabbatical with Varitek as interim manager. Just an idea. But I'm just as guilty as anyone for not appreciating what Francona brought to the table.



So if Francona doesn't get much in the way of a break, why does Valentine?

I'm with Dale and Jose. I'm perfectly OK with a housecleaning, but it's got to include Valentine. He hasn't done a damn thing to warrant a return engagement in 2013.

Dale, it's old history at this point, but I think it was Francona's time to go. Similarly, Torre didn't do anything incredibly wrong with the end of his Yankee career; it was just time for him to go.

I'm utterly embarrassed and really have nothing to say on the Sox - thank god for King Felix and Melky I guess.

Hope all are well, I'm off to put the prices up in the bar in anger.

F*ck, I just hate this team right now.

Didn't that happen in a clubhouse full of media, or am I misremembering?

Forget it, he's rolling.

I'd say Pedroia's untouchable. So young and good and cheap. You basically have to hope you can make it work with him.

From TFA:

Look, there was more than I reported, guys. And there's more than I reported because I couldn't get second and third sources to confirm some of the details. But there's more out there than what has been written at this point.

So, basically, bacne. "Hey, it's not credible, but it's there, so I believe it. But my editor won't let me run with it because it's not credible. Damn editor."

Hey, maybe whatever he's hearing is all real. Or maybe he can't find anyone to confirm because the information is false and there is nobody to confirm. Passan is acting like he can't tell the difference between the two.

"Hey, it's not credible, but it's there, so I believe it. But my editor won't let me run with it because it's not credible. Damn editor."

No, he doesn't say any of those words, or anything that means those words. A single-sourced claim from a trustworthy source is credible, it's just not journalistically correct to print it. When you research a story, you always get more information that you can print, and part of how you verify the stuff you can print is by comparing it to the stuff you can't. That's all Passan is saying here.

Passan's been entirely responsible in his reporting. He's one of the best sports journalists working today, and I think he's being unfairly smeared.

He's also saying that he's got three sources for everything he did print. So there's that.

Pops raises an interesting point of the old, 'if you're in for a thousand the shark owns you, but if you're in for a hundred thousand you own the shark" variety. Between the unmovable parts and the parts you don't want to move because they're good and cheap (and their home/road splits suggest they're less valuable to other clubs), housecleaning's difficult.