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Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Paul Lebowitz: PECOTA SCHMECOTA

SCHMECOTA? Jeez…Nate has some hardcore acronymical work ahead.

Joe at Statistician Magician points out my (so far) accurate assessment of the Florida Marlins (the last two losses not withstanding) in the following:

Marlins not this good?:  Obviously, they are not going to win eleven of every twelve games.  The Paul Lebowitz of New York predicted the Marlins to take the division with 88 wins.  A prediction that looks pretty good at this point.  I simply chose to predict them to win 81 games.  Stayed on the safe side.  PECOTA however, had them at 68 wins, not looking good almighty automator.

I had the Marlins at 90 wins, for the record.

Before anything else, I’ve reached some pretty lofty status as I’ve become “The Paul Lebowitz of New York”. That’s up there with The Batman of Gotham City; The Superman of Metropolis; The Donald of Trump; and the Übermensch of Nietzsche.

I honestly do not know how to calculate: A) PECOTA; B) The Pygmalion Win Theorem; or C) Win Shares. Nor do I care. How many numbers do we have to sift through to realize that these facts and figures (some of which had not only the Marlins going 68-94 this year and the Padres winning the pennant last season) aren’t any more accurate than the judgment of those who take statistics and other factors into account.

How hard is it to have a formula, plug said formula into a computer and come out with the same predictions as everyone else who’s using the same formula is coming out with? There’s no analysis; no knowledge from actually knowing anything about the game or about people; it’s numbers crunching and it’s boring. What’s worse, it’s no more accurate than listening to someone who has an idea of what they’re talking about and isn’t just blowing smoke out of their asses like Joe Morgan; or babbling endlessly about the veracity of numbers as the hard core stat-geeks do.

Repoz Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:17 AM | 28 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, miami, projections, sabermetrics

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   1. HGM Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:29 AM (#3147653)
Blah blah blah.
   2. Fancy Pants is braggadocious about his Handle Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:36 AM (#3147655)
Well, they have played 6 games against the nats, and 2 against the pirates, not exactly a killer schedule. Seems a bit early to be tooting your own horn, and locking them in for 90 wins. Lets see where they stand May 3rd, after 10 games agains the Phillies, Mets and Cubs...
   3. AROM Posted: April 22, 2009 at 12:00 PM (#3147663)
No more accurate? This guy needs more that 1 team and 12 games to make this statement. Give me his verifiable predictions made before the 2008 season and we can talk.
   4. JoeHova Posted: April 22, 2009 at 12:01 PM (#3147664)
Has anyone looked to see how "deadly accurate" various projection systems are on a team level? I believe that the word is that projection systems can get approx. 75% of players right (although I'm not sure exactly what right means in that context), but what about teams? That same 75%, better, or worse? And are those projections better or worse than what a random group of experts can come up with? I want to know exactly what we're fighting about here. A 5% difference in accuracy? 10%? 30%?

That's one of the things I've thought of looking into but I tend to think someone has already done that. Also, so much can happen during a season to a team's 25 man roster (injuries, trades, minor league breakouts) that it seems like such a study would have some inherent flaws. For example, if somebody projected the 2004 Cubs to win 89 games, which they did, but s/he made that projection based on the belief that Prior and Wood would be healthy all season, is that a good prediction or a bad one?
   5. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: April 22, 2009 at 12:17 PM (#3147670)
Give me his verifiable predictions made before the 2008 season and we can talk.


http://paullebowitz.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/03/2008_predicted_.html

He had the Tigers and Reds winning the respective Central divisions and the Rays he pegged at 76 wins and he was one of the folks who bought into the Mariners as he had them with 89 wins. His NL Cy Young winner was Aaron Harang and his AL Cy Young was Justin Verlander.

All in all his predictions seemed mostly as good/bad as you'd expect from such things. Not too much terribly embarrassing, most of what I listed above was at least moderately defensible in March, 2008 but nothing too impressive either.
   6. zonk Posted: April 22, 2009 at 12:42 PM (#3147681)
Well, they have played 6 games against the nats, and 2 against the pirates, not exactly a killer schedule. Seems a bit early to be tooting your own horn, and locking them in for 90 wins. Lets see where they stand May 3rd, after 10 games agains the Phillies, Mets and Cubs...


Agreed.

I think the Fish have a very good rotation with an even higher upside, but no way that offense can get them to 90 wins. Emilio Bonifacio is not the new Terry Pendleton.
   7. AROM Posted: April 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM (#3147688)
He had the Tigers and Reds winning the respective Central divisions and the Rays he pegged at 76 wins and he was one of the folks who bought into the Mariners as he had them with 89 wins.


If anyone cares to compare to PECOTA or my team predictions, I suggest we leave things like correlation and RMSE in our mothers' basements. A simple head to head W-L would do, give a win to whatever system comes closer for each of the 30 teams.
   8. Fancy Pants is braggadocious about his Handle Posted: April 22, 2009 at 01:47 PM (#3147736)
Well, you can find last years (among others) pesky RMSE's for Pecota, Chone, MGL, ZIPS, as well as selected MSM analysts, and other interesting thingies (wait while I screw up my linking) here...
   9. Jonathan Gaston Sees You When You're Sleeping Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:04 PM (#3147752)
I honestly do not know how to calculate: A) PECOTA; B) The Pygmalion Win Theorem; or C) Win Shares. Nor do I care.

Emphasis mine.

This guy's headed down a Gambler's Fallacy spiral.
   10. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:07 PM (#3147757)
"The Pygmalion Win Theorem"

Well, the first thing to remember is that the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.
   11. CFiJ Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:27 PM (#3147774)
Well, the first thing to remember is that the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.
Close. Actually it's "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain in Spain falling mainly in the plain."
   12. Vegas Watch Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:28 PM (#3147776)
How hard is it to have a formula, plug said formula into a computer and come out with the same predictions as everyone else who’s using the same formula is coming out with?

Well apparently it's pretty tough, since your '08 predictions average out to 82.2-79.8

'08 RMSE:
PECOTA: 9.69
CHONE: 9.76
Lebowitz: 12.31

If anyone cares to compare to PECOTA or my team predictions, I suggest we leave things like correlation and RMSE in our mothers' basements. A simple head to head W-L would do, give a win to whatever system comes closer for each of the 30 teams.

PECOTA vs. Lebowitz: PECOTA 17, Lebowitz 12, one tie (Nats)
CHONE vs. Lebwoitz: CHONE 19, Lebowitz 11

Clearly, PECOTA projecting the Mariners to win 75 games (Lebowitz had them at 89) isn't adding any value at all.
   13. UCCF Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:28 PM (#3147777)
Well, the first thing to remember is that the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.

Those rain-caused doubleheaders are going to kill the Spanish pitching staff. When are Ferdinand and Isabella going to pony up for the retractable roof stadium that the team needs to be competitive?
   14. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:32 PM (#3147780)
"The Pygmalion Win Theorem"

Well, the first thing to remember is that the rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain.


The fraction of Spanish raindrops that fall in the plain will typically be equal to the square of the number of clouds over the plain, divided by the sum of the squares of the number of clouds over the plain and the number of clouds over the mountains.
   15. Crispix Attacks Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:34 PM (#3147785)
Well, they have played 6 games against the nats, and 2 against the pirates, not exactly a killer schedule.

Show some respect, the Pirates have beaten them in both games and are 8-6 themselves. And their Pythonzero record is also 8-6.
   16. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:37 PM (#3147786)
Too damn busy sending maniacs out west in search of a passage to India.
   17. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:45 PM (#3147792)
"...in search of a passage to India."

Heh. Pirates already have that one locked up.
   18. Fancy Pants is braggadocious about his Handle Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:46 PM (#3147795)
Yes, of course the Pirates themselves haven't had the roughest of starts, Reds, Astros, Marlins... and it's still only 14 games into the season.
   19. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:53 PM (#3147803)
And if beating the Nats is so easy and meaningless, then you have to wonder what it says about the Atlanta Braves that they have such a hard time doing it lately.
   20. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: April 22, 2009 at 02:59 PM (#3147808)
Yes, the converse to "The Marlins only beat an a 1-10 team" is "The Nationals only lost to a 10-1 team." I don't think it's dispositive toward either franchise.
   21. jwb Posted: April 22, 2009 at 03:04 PM (#3147816)
And if beating the Nats is so easy and meaningless, then you have to wonder what it says about the Atlanta Braves that they have such a hard time doing it lately.
Frenchy is not your savior!
   22. jwb Posted: April 22, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3147847)
Lebowitz's defense of his not being able to add, from the comments following the article linked by Jose Can You Seasbiscuit:

If you want to get on someone about their math skills regarding the predictions of final records, check this guy out---http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2007/3/9/13230/86196
He's only got three teams under .500 in the entire NL (barely). And he's using all those ridiculous stat acronyms---PECOTA and all that other ****.
Is "Lebowitz isn't the only guy in this business who failed second grade arithmetic" really what you are looking for in a back-cover blurb?
   23. Jonathan Gaston Sees You When You're Sleeping Posted: April 22, 2009 at 05:33 PM (#3148070)
ridiculous stat acronyms---PECOTA


Who is this guy, Bill Simmons?
   24. Blackadder Posted: April 22, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3148092)
I don't understand how you can take the time to produce W/L projections without spending the 15 seconds it takes to make sure everything adds up. It's completely baffling.
   25. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 05:52 PM (#3148104)
I don't understand how you can take the time to produce W/L projections without spending the 15 seconds it takes to make sure everything adds up. It's completely baffling.

That's because doing the math is for nerdy losers who live in their mother's basement. Real winners go with their gut!
   26. Cabbage Posted: April 22, 2009 at 06:02 PM (#3148125)
Fawn Lebowitz doesn't understand statistics.
   27. Walt Davis Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:15 PM (#3148410)
Well apparently it's pretty tough, since your '08 predictions average out to 82.2-79.8

Sometimes a biased estimator is the one with a lower RMSE. :-)
   28. Crispix Attacks Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:33 PM (#3148439)
Update: The Marlins have now been swept by the Pirates. THE MILLS OF REGRESSION TO THE MEAN GRIND EXCEEDING FINE.

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