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Tuesday, March 11, 2014

Perry: VIDEO: Call overturned by new replay system for first time

Clip lasts 3:35 and as far as I know it’s still going on. 5 times they show the play…enjoy your extended NFL season.

It’s the Angels and Mariners, it’s an out call at second base reviewed under the new expanded replay system. But wait! That’s not all ...

...Let the historical record show that the new replay system has officially yielded fruit. Here’s the word from on high ..

...Let us first release balloons and then build a monument in the town square: for on this day, history hath been made.

Repoz Posted: March 11, 2014 at 10:57 PM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: replay, zzzzz

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   1. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:25 PM (#4669950)
sigh
   2. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4669958)
Did they have a different angle for the review, because I don't know how you'd overturn based on that view?
   3. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:39 PM (#4669960)
I'll echo Voros.
   4. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:50 PM (#4669968)
Can't remember which game, but I saw a tag play at second base the other day where the runner was called safe but was clearly out. The tag was high, but the runner's foot still hadn't reached the bag. They reviewed for 2 minutes and 15 seconds and let the call stand. But this gets reversed?

Apparently getting calls right actually isn't the point.
   5. Poulanc Posted: March 11, 2014 at 11:57 PM (#4669969)
Watching the video, I don't think the review actually took that long. The wasted time is when Scioscia comes out and needs to say his piece after the call has been overturned.
   6. Lassus Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4669971)
The wasted time is when Scioscia comes out and needs to say his piece after the call has been overturned.

And I thought THIS was an immediate ejection.
   7. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4669972)
The wasted time is when Scioscia comes out and needs to say his piece after the call has been overturned.


That can't be right. I'm sure I was told that once replay came in, people would stop arguing calls.
   8. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:29 AM (#4669976)
Mike Scioscia has broken the facts!
   9. bobm Posted: March 12, 2014 at 12:33 AM (#4669978)
Can't remember which game, but I saw a tag play at second base the other day where the runner was called safe but was clearly out. The tag was high, but the runner's foot still hadn't reached the bag. They reviewed for 2 minutes and 15 seconds and let the call stand. But this gets reversed?

This one? http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mil/replay-confirms-milwaukee-brewers-logan-schafer-safe-on-steal?ymd=20140306&content_id=68831552&vkey=news_mil
   10. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: March 12, 2014 at 01:28 AM (#4669987)
Sounds like the Reds-Angels game:

After conferring, the umpires on the field sent it to [replay official Gerry] Davis in the truck to review the play. Davis was working with four different camera angles, -- all from static cameras and none with zooming capabilities -- and after a delay of two minutes and 15 seconds, ruled there wasn't conclusive evidence to overturn the call. Only after that was made official, did Davis get the fifth angle, the one that was shown on TV.

"It was an umpire's nightmare," said Randy Marsh, MLB's Director of Major League Umpires and a Northern Kentucky resident. "With that view, they would have flipped the call, but they didn't get it until it was over."
   11. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: March 12, 2014 at 02:01 AM (#4669994)
It looks like the "review" started at 1:05 (unless McClendon going out was itself a replay), and it was pretty obvious from the live play that the ball was bobbled. Ump at second just blew it in the first place, and it was very obvious from the replay they showed (2:08 specifically). Safe call was made at 2:29, so the replay took no more than 1:15 or so.

#6, how about the fan at 3:28 shouting "you can't argue!". Lol.
   12. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 12, 2014 at 02:04 AM (#4669995)
and it was very obvious from the replay they showed (2:08 specifically).


One man's very obvious is another man's huh. I think it's likely the ball was fumbled from the outset, but by no means is it obvious to me from that view.

   13. Sunday silence Posted: March 12, 2014 at 02:32 AM (#4670002)
Couple of notes that makes me wonder about things to come:

1. The challenge was initiated by the umps, after McClendon asked them. This raises the interesting pt. that if umps are going to review plays on their own, then we are likely to see more challenges than we anticipated. At least I thought we might 2-3/game but that could cerainly go up.

2. I didnt think it was obvious at all. There is a glove in the way the whole time, so it is unclear whether he started juggling it after he went to through it, i.e. after he had already stepped on the bag at second. I believe the rule with infielders is a little more lenient than outfielders. THat is infielders dont have to hold onto the ball the entire time, its enuf if they make the catch and the ball comes out in the act of throwing. OFs have to have the control at all times to make a catch.

I think that's the rule.

To me it seemed more likely he juggled after he made the p.o. but this is all guess work really. Reviewing these types of plays is going to be quite problematical.

3. Going back to no. 1; it seems that the umps have some sort of tacit understanding that they are going to review at their discretion somewhat more liberally than I had anticipated. I guess if they are not sure, then they will review. On one hand; that's a great step for enlightenment; on the other: cardsfan concerns about the time this will take may be validated. I tend to cheer for enlightenment but...

It seems that umps almost have to review stuff if it is close and late in the game; because to do so otherwise and see a blatant miscall will only make it worse for them. Of course JOe West or CB Bucknor are prolly still going to do something with this to piss people off, but hopefully it will only call more attention to them.

I have to say, I disagreed with CFB on some of this but he maybe right.
   14. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: March 12, 2014 at 03:30 AM (#4670009)
Did the second baseman make a "baseball move" while still in possession of the catch? If so it's a fumble and the Mariners have a first down at the Angels' 45 yard line.
   15. Jim Furtado Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:36 AM (#4670015)
I was watching the game. It didn't look like he ever really caught the ball.

Right now this replay system looks like a major waste of time. The umpires really are very good.

I'm still not convinced replay improves the game.
   16. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 12, 2014 at 07:12 AM (#4670017)
Hooray for replay! God knows games moved much too quickly in the past...
   17. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: March 12, 2014 at 08:04 AM (#4670025)
God knows games moved much too quickly in the past...

Well, now with replay slowing things down, they'll have to compensate by enforcing the 20-second pitch rule and tightening up the time between innings, right? Right...?
   18. just plain joe Posted: March 12, 2014 at 08:14 AM (#4670029)
What Jim Furtado said.
   19. Lassus Posted: March 12, 2014 at 08:33 AM (#4670032)
...and after a delay of two minutes and 15 seconds, ruled there wasn't conclusive evidence to overturn the call. Only after that was made official, did Davis get the fifth angle, the one that was shown on TV.

The network feeds are under strict orders to give as many replay angles as fast as possible. That's who provides the replays, they aren't tied to anything MLB owns or controls (as of 2008, at least, I doubt that's changed). This could easily be just a "didn't get it fast enough", but if some home or away feed delays a definitive angle, that is really really bad.
   20. Sunday silence Posted: March 12, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4670428)
It's also not good to make judgments just based on the trial stages; I am sure it will be improved some as the season goes by. And if turns out to truly suck I guess they will ditch it. Why not try to improve things?
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: March 12, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4670494)
It's also not good to make judgments just based on the trial stages; I am sure it will be improved some as the season goes by. And if turns out to truly suck I guess they will ditch it. Why not try to improve things?


Considering that the system they are using now isn't remotely the same as the system that they will use in the regular season, you are right, it's too early to judge.

But considering that it's taken over a minute to do these reviews with only 4 camera angles, and they'll have 16 or so in the regular season, it makes me fearful that it's not going to be nearly as efficient as it should.
   22. Sunday silence Posted: March 12, 2014 at 05:14 PM (#4670568)
yeah, it seems like One minute: manager standing around, players looking around, manager talks to ump; One minute and a half, for the decision, then the other manager runs out there..."Hey you cant argue this..."

SO its going to be more like 3 1/2 min. 3.5 min. x 2 or 3 appeals will not really feel like much. But these discretionary appeals are going to be something. WHat happens when both manager throw down say 3 challenges in innings 6-7 and then umps do another one in the 8th and then in the 9th: "uh oh, you're not gonna let that HR go without taking another look?" so you could have like 4 or 5 stoppages in a short order
   23. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:41 PM (#4670618)
Football has shown there is a bit of slippery slope once you go down replay road. They stop the game now to replay ball spotting. It's crazy. Homeruns and fail/foul would have been plenty, doing tags and catches is insanity.
   24. Sunday silence Posted: March 12, 2014 at 06:46 PM (#4670624)
But you know what, whereas I dont like the challenge system in general. Here the challenge system is not a maximum on the number of reviews which in the NFL it kinda sort of is. the mlb system just reigns in the early calls in the first 6 inn. You're probably not going to get more than 4 total in the first 6. But after six innings, its become more like football with certain mandatory reviews.

Except here it's discretionary, but if the umps are fair about it, then it's not like a real challenge system. THe system is flexible enuf to accomodate many mistakes. This is not so bad really.
   25. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: March 12, 2014 at 08:20 PM (#4670654)
Clearly fairness dictates that each team needs to have its own Replay Review Coach (RRC) in the clubhouse reviewing each ball in play. Both teams' RRCs will have computer monitors and digital communication devices that communicate with the crew chief, and both RRCs must approve the play before the next play can occur. If one of the RRCs refuses to approve the play, it should move to a review en banc by a rotating panel of three umpires at MLB headquarters who issue an initial ruling. That ruling can be appealed by the RRC, who will have a set number of en banc appeals, for a review by the full court (consisting of 9 MLB umpires, Bud Selig, Colonel Sanders, a representative of the Queen, and the Heads of the Five Families). In this review, each RRC will have 5 minutes to make their case orally, having first submitted a written brief. The full court can then issue a final ruling, which can only be appealed once, at the manager's discretion before the 6th inning; and by appeal to the on-field umpires in the 7th inning or later. Appeal in that case will be decided by coin flip.

People: we must get these calls right.

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