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Sunday, April 03, 2011

Phillies shovel on doubts about Madson as closer

And without the help of Richie Hebner!

Madson played the role of team guy Friday when asked about Manuel’s decision to start the season with Contreras as the closer.

“My only comment is I’m here to play for the other 24 guys, my family, and the fans,” Madson said.

Amaro was not the only one to express doubt about Madson’s ability to close. Pitching coach Rich Dubee told the News Journal shortly after Lidge’s injury that he didn’t think Madson was ready for the role.

“Ryan Madson is Ryan Madson,” Dubee said. “What did he do, take a crash course in how to close or something?”

Dubee also said he thinks Madson is a different pitcher when the inning changes from the eighth to the ninth.

“The game speeds up on him, sometimes,” Dubee said. “There’s a little anxiety in there. The ninth inning is a little different than the eighth. There have been a lot of solid eighth-inning guys that just haven’t been able to pitch the ninth, then one day they learn how to do it.”

Repoz Posted: April 03, 2011 at 04:05 PM | 19 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: phillies, projections, sabermetrics

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1. The District Attorney Posted: April 03, 2011 at 04:27 PM (#3784997)

Madson played the role of team guy Friday when asked about Manuel’s decision to start the season with Contreras as the closer.

“My only comment is I’m here to play for the other 24 guys, my family, and the fans,” Madson said.

Not to overparse, but one could read this not as being a "team guy", but rather as saying \"#### the front office."

Pitching coach Rich Dubee told the News Journal shortly after Lidge’s injury that he didn’t think Madson was ready for the role.

“Ryan Madson is Ryan Madson,” Dubee said. “What did he do, take a crash course in how to close or something?”

Oh, for ####'s sake.

BTW, Jose Contreras has a grand total of four major league saves. But even if he had 400... why would you be so dismissive and condescending about your own player... who is pretty key to the team... and who hasn't actually done anything wrong... in public? Even if Dubee felt he needed to tell the world that Madson has no closing experience, he sure didn't have to say it like that.

2. jwb Posted: April 03, 2011 at 05:45 PM (#3785059)

Madson will be a free agent after the season. It looks like he'll have a completely different group of friends.

3. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: April 03, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#3785068)

Of course, the Phillies once used Madson to close in a World Series game. So who knows what they were thinking then?

4. ColonelTom Posted: April 04, 2011 at 01:35 AM (#3785464)

It's Scott Rolen, the sequel! Starring Rich Dubee as Dallas Green.

5. Justin T is expanding the aperture of awareness Posted: April 04, 2011 at 01:45 AM (#3785471)

That is an astonishing quote from Dubee. My goodness.

6. 1k5v3L

Posted: April 04, 2011 at 01:52 AM (#3785473)

It does seem, however, that Dubee took a super-crash course in how to coach or something.

7. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Posted: April 04, 2011 at 02:10 AM (#3785484)

There's a certain irony that we would normally think using your best reliever in the 8th (with an occasional out or two in the 7th inning) makes more sense than letting him sit until the 9th.
That said, this is very weird for the Phils to do, unless Madson's being a royal PITA about it (which seems way out of character).

8. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: April 04, 2011 at 02:18 AM (#3785489)

That is an astonishing quote from Dubee. My goodness.

Yes. I wonder if Madson did something to really piss him off, that we're not seeing. I'm not assuming that, though. It's pretty horrible for Dubee to say that about his own player.

9. ColonelTom Posted: April 04, 2011 at 02:35 AM (#3785497)

For those that haven't read the article, here's the Amaro quote:

"There's no question that we think that Ryan is a great fit for us, but Ryan has not proven to us he can be a closer in the major leagues," Amaro said. "Can that happen? That's possible. Can we necessarily rely on him? I don't think so."

WTF is up with these people? And how will they react when the Phils are no longer undefeated?

10. My Grate Friend, Peason's pants are rankled Posted: April 04, 2011 at 02:40 AM (#3785502)

Rich Dubee is dumber than 10 baseball people's fixations on closers.

11. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 04, 2011 at 03:06 AM (#3785508)

"Can that happen? That's possible. Can we necessarily rely on him? I don't think so."

- ntr J.P. Ricciardi

Devalue your own assets much??

12. ColonelTom Posted: April 04, 2011 at 03:15 AM (#3785510)

I actually went back to see if this piece was dated April 1. Alas, no.

13. Esoteric throws a 'hard slider' Posted: April 04, 2011 at 03:23 AM (#3785514)

There has to be a backstory here. Otherwise there's no possible explanation for pissing all over your own player like this. Not only is it bad business (i.e. driving down the value of a possible deadline trade chip), it seems genuinely mean.

I am therefore forced to believe either Madson has really pissed some people in the FO and on the coaching staff off, or that Amaro and Dubee are beyond incompetent at their jobs.

14. ColonelTom Posted: April 04, 2011 at 03:26 AM (#3785516)

I wonder if they approached Boras about an extension and were told, "He'll be your closer shortly, so plan to pay elite closer money if you want us to sign an extension." Otherwise this makes no sense - even if Madson were pissed at being passed over for Contreras, that's understandable and you'd handle that in-house.

15. Nasty Nate Posted: April 04, 2011 at 02:12 PM (#3785649)

This is weird all around. Maybe the Phillies are right that Madson does not have the mental make-up for closing. But, it's bizarre that the implications imply he has a long history of failing, and that Contreras has a long history of success. I don't think Madson has had the job for any long stretch, just as a fill-in guy a bunch of times. Was that enough time to judge? Also, I'd bet he is on the mound the next time they are tied in the 9th or later on the road, even though that is the most "game on the line" situation to start an inning. And Contreras isn't even a Kevin Gregg-type "proven closer," but a converted starter with only one year experience of relieving and much less of closing.

16. Rants Mulliniks (formerly Cold Prosimian) Posted: April 04, 2011 at 02:39 PM (#3785670)

Thanks Tony LaRussa. He unwittingly initiated one of the most unproductive strategies in major league history.

17. jcnyc Posted: April 04, 2011 at 04:34 PM (#3785780)

All part of LaRussa's master plan. Get everyone else to use unproductive strategies, then pull a fast one and start managing his bullpen the right way.

you see, he's thinking circles around these suckers.

18. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Posted: April 04, 2011 at 04:43 PM (#3785790)

Devalue your own assets much??

In a cold-hearted way, the Phillies don't care about this. If they know that he's leaving (Boras talking about 12M/year, closing; surely someone will give Madson a nice contract to be a closer, if not 12M/year), then it doesn't matter. There's no way they are trading him this year, unless everything completely implodes on them injurywise.

19. Textbook Editor Posted: April 04, 2011 at 04:44 PM (#3785791)

or that Amaro and Dubee are beyond incompetent at their jobs.

I lean towards this explanation...

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Phillies shovel on doubts about Madson as closer

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