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1. joker24 Posted: September 16, 2008 at 12:22 PM (#2943313)(Runs far, far away)
Except for Mike Schmidt, Jim Thome, and Dick Allen.
In HR and RBI? No one. In terms of actual value, Howard is nowhere close to the real MVP candidates.
So, how will this eventually shake out? The Phillie voters giving their two votes to Howard, the NY voters to Delgado, the LA voters to Manny, the Milwaukee voters to Braun, the Houston voters to Berkman, the Atlanta voters to Jones...? Pujols still wins by getting nearly all of the second place votes.
It didn't hurt to write that sentence nearly as much as I would have thought.
It's clear that writers like to frame stories around the MVP and then start believing that their stories have real merit.
To a lesser degree, the same can probably be said for Howard.
Ryan, I can only speak for myself, but my mockery is strictly for any writer who would give either of those two a first place vote. Occam would need a very large razor to bring sense to these guys.
I agree with you completely. I've just been around here long enough to know that, sooner or later, people are going to start attacking the players, rather than the stupidity of the writers, even though the players are neither voting for or promoting themselves.
For an example, please see almost any thread involving Jim Rice or Jack Morris, which all seem to eventually degenerate into "He was the 8th best OF on his team" or "He couldn't have even broken into the rotation for <fill in the blank> team".
If K-Rod and one of Delgado/Howard wins the MVP, where will that rank on the "worst choice in both leagues in the same year" scale?
What I can't understand is why more people in Philly aren't promoting that Ottley fellow.
There are points in history where, if Albert Pujols was born X years ago with his hitting skills intact, he'd have 5 or 6 MVPs by now.
In reality? One.
The difference of course is that Rice and Morris truly do promote themselves as deserving, and are often openly contemptuous of the voters who have failed do do so already.
Below 1987 at least.
William of Occam's (yay wikipedia!) ghost is going to use a normal sized razor on his wrists if Howard/Delgado win the MVP given that they are each probably 3rd best player on their own team this year. Irony being that it's in part because some of those other players are that good that Howard/Delgado are getting the RBIs which smoke-and-mirrors their candidacy.
I agree. I'd be really surprised if Pujols doesn't win it.
I think these are just shot in the dark kind of articles, with few produced by guys with a vote.
Which of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran would you not put ahead of Delgado?
I hope you're right, but the writers have also shown a historical love for the surprise candidate. Besides, they've had multiple opportunities to give it to Pujols, and they always seem to find a way to justify giving it to someone else, much like A-Rod before he finally broke through in the MVP with Texas.
They were frequently finding ways to give it to Bonds, who was actually better. The Howard selection is probably the only MVP that genuinely should have been Albert's, while he also won one that arguably should have gone to someone else (Lee).
Albert's numbers are phenonenal. But his MVP count, to date, is actually about right.
Are you saying he should have one or two, or his MVP total is within one or two of being right? Because I can't see a real good case for a third (until now, that is).
If he had an .850 OPS in the first half, he'd likely have added an extra 10-20 RBI, and extra 5 HR, and an extra 10 runs, which would put him as top 2 in the first two, and around the top 10 in the third. In that case, the writers would still be touting him as an MVP candidate, as the writers have shown a consistent love for RBI guys.
With that being said, even if Delgado did hit like that, Pujols should still be the MVP.
I think he should be but, like fellow ex-Jay Fred McGriff, I think he'll end up just outside the hall, or be facing a 10 to 15 year wait.
For an example, please see almost any thread involving Jim Rice or Jack Morris,
...or Jimmy Rollins.
Mostly because Utley isn't hitting bombs and driving in runs seemingly every night during a pennant race. The people in Philly are watching the games.
Someone is going to have to be the first guy (steroid-tainted players excepted) with 500 HR not to make the HoF. Delgado seems a decent bet to be that player.
Assuming he gets there, there's also Adam Dunn, for whom the writers are already building their "No" case.
It will probably end up being Sammy Sosa.
Which of Johan, Wright, Reyes, and Beltran would you not put ahead of Delgado?
And it looks like Delgado's counting stats and power numbers may be better than McGriff's if Carlos can keep it going for another 2-3 years. What's the over/under on his career HR total? 535?
Two things:
1) Sosa is steroid-tainted, in that a serious majority of writers appears to believe that he used, even though there's no evidence other than a performance spike.
2) Sosa has 600+ HRs. He's going in.
I believe that refers to a threat a couple days ago where some moran started talking about how he'd rather have Clint Barmes than Jimmy Rollins
And finally everybody can quit ######## about Dawson's MVP.
Also, is this season really a "much higher offensive environment" than 1987? I'm too lazy to look up the numbers, but I do remember that 1987 was the biggest homerun season of all time until the mid 1990's. And offense in today's MLB seems to have dropped a bit from what it was 10 - and maybe even five - seasons ago. Anyone care to run the numbers from the last five years or so, as well as 1987 just for comparisons sake?
I'm not sure 1987 is worse than that hypothetical. It'd be pretty close.
Funny.
It's too bad he's not even that.
Did you know: Jimmy Rollins' .296 BA last year was the lowest rate for an MVP since Kevin Mitchell in 1989? Howard would blow that one out of the water!
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