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Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Pirates Acquire Marlins’ Gaby Sanchez

Marlins are also rumored to be shopping their home run machine on ebay.

Just before Tuesday’s non-waivers trade deadline, the Pittsburgh Pirates have acquired Miami Marlins first baseman Gaby Sánchez, sending outfielder Gorkys Hernández and a Competitive Balance Draft pick to the Marlins.

Sánchez entered this season with decent career numbers, including a .346 on-base percentage and .440 slugging percentage. But he got off to a terrible start, never got back on track, and finally was demoted to the minors in early July.

Its the 33rd pick in the draft right now (I believe it gets pushed back by free agent draft pick compensation)

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 31, 2012 at 03:26 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: draft pick compensation, fire sale, gaby sanchez, gorkys herandez, jeffrey loria sucks, marlins, pirates, trade

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   1. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 31, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4197570)
Gorkys Hernandez is nothing more than a warm body that can run fast, but just the comp pick straight up for Gaby Sanchez is a horrendously bad trade for the Pirates.
   2. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4197584)
Really? It's not like they traded the comp pick for Casey Kotchman. Gaby Sanchez is under control through 2016 ... I don't know what happened to him this year but he seemed really good in 2010 and 2011. On the other hand he's less than a year younger than Casey Kotchman! Not exactly a phenom.

Of course I don't understand all the rules about the draft pick budget system. It seems to me that if you have a maximum total amount you're allowed to pay your draft picks, you should try to have as few draft picks as possible so you can draft a few really good players and give them large bonuses.
   3. The District Attorney Posted: July 31, 2012 at 07:33 PM (#4197589)
I hope the Pirates win the World Series and still get this "competitive balance pick."
   4. Swedish Chef Posted: July 31, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4197590)
It seems to me that if you have a maximum total amount you're allowed to pay your draft picks, you should try to have as few draft picks as possible so you can draft a few really good players and give them large bonuses.

But that's not how it works, every pick has the right to offer a certain amount of money attached. Grabbing picks is always right.

EDIT: It would be even more fun if you could split the slot money from the pick and trade them separately. Say you want the money to give to Appel, while the Marlins want the pick itself but don't need the right to spend money they don't intend to spend anyway...
   5. asinwreck Posted: July 31, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4197591)
Sanchez and Snider are solid deals for the Pirates. Both immediately upgrade the offense at their respective positions even if they just do what they've been doing the past month or so. If they do anything worthwhile, both are under control for several years. The deals make sense both for the next two months and the long term.
   6. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4197629)
But that's not how it works, every pick has the right to offer a certain amount of money attached. Grabbing picks is always right.

OK, then this trade is not good. Acquiring a 29-year-old who may be an improvement over Casey McGehee at first base is not an achievement with a high degree of difficulty.
   7. Lassus Posted: July 31, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4197666)
OK, then this trade is not good. Acquiring a 29-year-old who may be an improvement over Casey McGehee at first base is not an achievement with a high degree of difficulty.

Aren't baseball draft picks something like the least-sure bet in pro sports drafting?
   8. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 31, 2012 at 10:25 PM (#4197718)
Aren't baseball draft picks something like the least-sure bet in pro sports drafting?


By miles and miles. Doesn't change the fact that you can get a future star with the 52nd pick, which makes it more valuable than Gaby Sanchez's services.

This is the problem with employing Casey McGehee: after a few months of him anything else starts to look like an alternative worth paying for.
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4197741)
The Pirates are pretty accustomed to getting unimpressive performance from their first basemen, though. The biggest power hitters they've had at the position since Willie Stargell left are Garrett Jones, Adam LaRoche, Kevin Young, Jeff King and Jason Thompson.
   10. Rennie's Tenet Posted: July 31, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4197745)
biggest power hitters they've had at the position since Willie Stargell left are Garrett Jones, Adam LaRoche, Kevin Young, Jeff King and Jason Thompson.


(Insert Walter Young joke.)
   11. Bruce Markusen Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4197757)
Well, Jason Thompson was good for awhile. The rest couldn't have cracked the lineup of the Lumber Company.
   12. Lassus Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4197768)
By miles and miles. Doesn't change the fact that you can get a future star with the 52nd pick, which makes it more valuable than Gaby Sanchez's services.

Eh. Maybe I'm alone in this, but it seems to me even an incremental improvement for a team going for their first playoffs in over a decade and a half is worth a draft pick that might end up never making it out of AA.
   13. flournoy Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:35 AM (#4197775)
You're not alone, Lassus. I find it shocking that any Pirates fan would value what will turn out to be a 40-something draft pick over an improvement to the big league club. Furthermore, Gaby Sanchez has about the same chance of giving the Pirates star-level performance as that draft pick. If the season ended today, the Pirates would be tied for the Wild Card. (They and the Braves would be the two Wild Cards.) It's now August, and the Pirates are poised to make the playoffs. How can a Pirates fan not be excited about that?
   14. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4197780)
I appear to be in the minority in acknowledging that the 2012 Pirates are not good enough to make a playoff run. I don't begrudge the team for trying to upgrade and go for it or the fans for wanting them to; they've suffered long enough five times over. But it's not realistic. Compare this roster, even after these few trades, to the Braves or Cardinals or Dodgers. The Pirates have had a fun first half but they are not near that quality yet. They are very likely going to finish no higher than 4th in the wild card chase.

I'll defend the Wandy trade (even though I personally would not have made it) and I like the Snider trade. The Sanchez trade, not so much. This is definitely a case where the asset could have been left in their pocket.

That's all assuming Sanchez is the near-worthless commodity he appears right now to be. If the Pirates sincerely think there's potential for him to turn around and become even an average first base bat, the trade looks a LOT better then.
   15. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 01, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4197784)
So what you're saying is, trading for a first baseman with a OPS+ of 48 is bad. But if he were to somehow become as good as he was in 2010 and 2011, trading for him might be good.
   16. Dan Posted: August 01, 2012 at 01:28 AM (#4197794)
I hope the Pirates win the World Series and still get this "competitive balance pick."


You mean exactly like the Cardinals?
   17. cardsfanboy Posted: August 01, 2012 at 02:44 AM (#4197803)
I appear to be in the minority in acknowledging that the 2012 Pirates are not good enough to make a playoff run.


They probably aren't good enough to make the playoffs, but with there being 70 or so games left in the season, there is a very good chance that it won't be their skill level that shows up the rest of the season. They have a chance of being lucky, and that is all it will take to get into the post season(at least a one game post season) I don't know how many games they have left with the Cubs and Astros, but there is a decided advantage to being in the NL Central.
   18. cardsfanboy Posted: August 01, 2012 at 03:34 AM (#4197809)
You mean exactly like the Cardinals?


except the Cardinals didn't get a pick, they were in the lottery for the pick though.
   19. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: August 01, 2012 at 03:46 AM (#4197811)
So what you're saying is, trading for a first baseman with a OPS+ of 48 is bad. But if he were to somehow become as good as he was in 2010 and 2011, trading for him might be good.


Exactly!

No really, it's possible someone in the Pirates' organization has seen film or something and is convinced he can fix what's wrong with Sanchez, and actually can. It's unlikely, but possible. Maybe they made this trade because they think they can fix something specifically about his swing.

The alternative is they made this trade because... well, because the fans expect us to make a trade, dammit, and he can't be as bad as Casey McGehee, right?
   20. AJMcCringleberry Posted: August 01, 2012 at 04:18 AM (#4197816)
The alternative is they made this trade because... well, because the fans expect us to make a trade, dammit, and he can't be as bad as Casey McGehee, right?

I'd guess it's partially that, and partially Gaby Sanchez can't be as bad he's been.
   21. boteman Posted: August 01, 2012 at 04:49 AM (#4197818)
There is the added fact that Gaby recently became a da-da. That could be helpful, or not.
   22. Sunday silence Posted: August 01, 2012 at 04:50 AM (#4197819)
Well, Jason Thompson was good for awhile. The rest couldn't have cracked the lineup of the Lumber Company


the thing about it was, the Pirates didnt even want Thompson. Right? If I recall, originally it was a deal for Jim Spencer (he retired in '82 though) or someone like that. I dont even know who they were giving up but it made no sense. And the Commissioner nixed it because, you know, it's Jim Spencer what the hell are you doing? So he made them get someone else and somehow they got Thompson who I think had some off the field problems as well.

yes kids, once upon a time the Commissioner could stop trades in the "best interests of baseball." It's such a quaint notion to look at it now. Like amateur olympics or a landed aristocracy.
   23. Sunday silence Posted: August 01, 2012 at 05:08 AM (#4197824)
Well, Jason Thompson was good for awhile. The rest couldn't have cracked the lineup of the Lumber Company


the thing about it was, the Pirates didnt even want Thompson. Right? If I recall, originally it was a deal for Jim Spencer (he retired in '82 though) or someone like that. I dont even know who they were giving up but it made no sense. And the Commissioner nixed it because, you know, it's Jim Spencer what the hell are you doing? So he made them get someone else and somehow they got Thompson who I think had some off the field problems as well.

yes kids, once upon a time the Commissioner could stop trades in the "best interests of baseball." It's such a quaint notion to look at it now. Like amateur olympics or a landed aristocracy.

EDIT I see now, Thompson traded by Cal for Ed Ott (30 yr old C on the down side) and Mikey Mahler (a pitcher who was mainly a fun guy to have around) This was in April '81; and the Yanks finally got rid of Spencer (a year away from retirement) a month later. I think it was supposed to be some sort of three way deal originally, maybe it involved Thompson winding up in NY?
   24. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 01, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4198413)

I appear to be in the minority in acknowledging that the 2012 Pirates are not good enough to make a playoff run.

There's no such thing as "not good enough to make a playoff run" IMO. All it takes is a few hot weeks and anyone with enough talent to make the playoffs has enough talent to do that.
   25. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: August 01, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4198425)
There's no such thing as "not good enough to make a playoff run" IMO. All it takes is a few hot weeks and anyone with enough talent to make the playoffs has enough talent to do that.


While this is technically true, I think it's strange and (to me) unexpected that this would be the general BTF feeling, that the Pirates have a pretty good chance because they're in position right now and with just a little luck they're there. Not saying you're wrong to think that way... I just expected more jaded cynicism. But I guess they're the freakin' Pirates and it's just so cute and inspiring to see them in contention in August and everyone is rooting for them. It actually warms my icy black heart. Just a little.

It's interesting and amusing the extent to which so many people like any "buying" trade the Pirates make just because it's so much fun to see the Pirates in a position to buy.
   26. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: August 01, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4198516)
What I especially like about the Snider and Sanchez trades is that these guys have a lot of team control left, and they've added some nice pieces to support McCutchen's MVP candidate years. Even if they don't make the playoffs this year, they have certainly positioned themselves to be more competitive the next two or three years.

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