Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, February 24, 2017

Posnanski | A Baseball Challenge!

Seems like this is the sort of thing that Primates would be all over.

Small challenge: Try to beat my lineup and starting pitcher — with this caveat. Every player in the lineup and the pitcher must be active and born in a different country. So you have 10 players — 9 in the lineup (including DH) and starting pitcher.

Bonus point: Add a closer from a different country.

Baldrick Posted: February 24, 2017 at 02:00 PM | 67 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: fun stuff, international, posnanski, world baseball classic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: February 24, 2017 at 09:58 PM (#5408575)
1B - Rafael Palmeiro - Cuba - 72 WAR
2B - Robinson Cano - DR - 62 WAR
3B - Bobby Thomson - Scotland - 33 WAR
SS - Luis Aparicio - Venezuela - 56 WAR
LF - Jose Cruz - Puerto Rico (it's another country for the WBC) - 54 WAR
CF - Ichiro Suzuki - Japan - 60 WAR
RF - Larry Walker - Canada - 72 WAR
C - Manny Sanguillen - Panama - 28 WAR
DH - Frank Thomas - US - 74 WAR
SP - Bert Blyleven - Netherlands - 95 WAR
RP - Joakim Soria - Mexico - 16 WAR

EDIT: forgot a DH.
   2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:11 PM (#5408579)
1B - Rafael Palmeiro - Cuba - 72 WAR
2B - Robinson Cano - DR - 62 WAR
3B - Bobby Thomson - Scotland - 33 WAR
SS - Luis Aparicio - Venezuela - 56 WAR
LF - Jose Cruz - Puerto Rico (it's another country for the WBC) - 54 WAR
CF - Ichiro Suzuki - Japan - 60 WAR
RF - Larry Walker - Canada - 72 WAR
C - Manny Sanguillen - Panama - 28 WAR
DH - Frank Thomas - US - 74 WAR
SP - Bert Blyleven - Netherlands - 95 WAR
RP - Joakim Soria - Mexico - 16 WAR


Ummm, only 2 of those guys are active.
   3. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:11 PM (#5408580)
Oh I suck, I didn't read closely and didn't use only active players. Oh well it was fun anyway.
   4. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:12 PM (#5408581)
They would be active if it wasn't for collusion!
   5. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:20 PM (#5408584)
If you're going all time, isn't better to say have Ruth in RF(can you have 1 U.S. guy?) and say Ortiz at DH?
   6. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:21 PM (#5408585)
Ummm, only 2 of those guys are active.

Aw crap. Ed Porray was going to be my player from Parts Unknown.
   7. Jacob Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5408586)
Cano, Ichiro & Soria make 3.
   8. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:25 PM (#5408587)
I REALLY wanted to use Porray.

Hugh - I started the team with Ruth and Blyleven as my givens. DH is a wasteland, Americans and Ortiz and I rolled with Cano/Thomas. Probably should have done Aaron at DH, he played enough there those last couple of years.
   9. BDC Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:35 PM (#5408591)
What's the closest a team has come to fielding any such squad? Has it been done? How lately?

The Rangers last year had players from at least the US, Japan, Korea, the DR, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, and Curaçao, though I don't know if they all appeared in a game together - and that only gets them to seven if they did.
   10. Baldrick Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5408592)
Here's mine:
C – Yadier Molina (Puerto Rico)
1B – Votto (Canada)
2B – Cano (DR)
3B – Cabrera (Venezuela)
SS – Bogaerts (Aruba)
LF – Cespedes (Cuba)
CF – Trout (US)
RF – Ichiro (Japan)
DH – Adrian Gonzalez (Mexico)
SP – Quintana (Colombia)
RP – Kenley Jansen (Curacao)
   11. Greg K Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:44 PM (#5408598)
It's possible an identical lineup to #10, but with Max Kepler instead of Ichiro in RF, might actually be better in 2017.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:45 PM (#5408599)
I didn't count PR:

C Yasmani Grandal (Cuba)
1B Joey Votto (Canada)
2B Jose Altuve (Venezuela)
3B Jonathan Schoop (Curacao)
SS Xander Bogaerts (Aruba)
LF Shin-Soo Choo (South Korea)
CF Mike Trout (USA)
RF Max Kepler (Germany)
DH Robinson Cano (Dominican Republic)

SP Yu Darvish (Japan)
   13. Greg K Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:52 PM (#5408602)
Although it's a distinct category from the US-Puerto Rico relationship, you can make an argument that Curacao and Aruba should have to share a roster spot.

I think it's an easier argument to make in the case of Puerto Rico/US though.
   14. Baldrick Posted: February 24, 2017 at 10:53 PM (#5408603)
It's possible an identical lineup to #10, but with Max Kepler instead of Ichiro in RF, might actually be better in 2017.

I was definitely trying to build the best lineup in a historical sense. Definitely not trying to construct to win in 2017. That's one of the ambiguities of the project, I guess.
   15. JJ1986 Posted: February 24, 2017 at 11:02 PM (#5408606)
I made a 25-man roster using active players from 25 countries, though they aren't all major leaguers:

C Yasmani Grandal (Cuba)
1B Joey Votto (Canada)
2B Jose Altuve (Venezuela)
3B Xander Bogaerts (Aruba)
SS Carlos Correa (Puerto Rico)
LF Shin-Soo Choo (South Korea)
CF Mike Trout (USA)
RF Max Kepler (Germany)
DH Robinson Cano (Dominican Republic)

SP Yu Darvish (Japan)
SP Marco Estrada (Mexico)
SP Jose Quintana (Colombia)
SP Wei-Yin Chen (Taiwan)
SP PJ Conlon (Ireland) – A-ball pitcher

C Yan Gomes (Brazil)
IF Didi Gregorious (Netherlands)
IF Cheslor Cuthbert (Honduras)
OF Xu Guiyuan (China) – Rookie league player

RP Randall Delgado (Panama)
RP Liam Hendriks (Australia)
RP Alex Wilson (Saudi Arabia)
RP Austin Brice (Hong Kong)
RP Kenley Jansen (Curacao)
RP Dovydas Neverauskas (Lithuania) – Should debut this year
RP Alex Maestri (Italy) – played in KBO last year

   16. PreservedFish Posted: February 24, 2017 at 11:08 PM (#5408607)
Ok, I'm NOT LOOKING AT OTHER LISTS. Also NOT TRYING TOO HARD. And not considering Puerto Rico


C - Russell Martin (Canada)
1B - Miguel Cabrera (Venezuela)
2B - Jon Schoop (Curacao)
3B - Adrian Beltre (DR)
SS - Bogaerts (Aruba)
LF - Shin Soo Choo (S Korea)
CF - Yoenis Cespedes (Cuba)
RF - Max Kepler (Germany)

SP - Clayton Kershaw (USA)

Closer - Roberto Osuna (Mexico)

edit > Dammit forgot DH. Gimme that Japanese Babe Ruth fellow.
   17. Batman Posted: February 24, 2017 at 11:13 PM (#5408609)
It's different, but the 1997 Dodgers had six pitchers who each started 18 or more games (156 total) from five different countries. South Korea, Japan, Mexico, US, and two Dominicans.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: February 24, 2017 at 11:16 PM (#5408612)
I found that the first decision is Trout vs Kershaw, and everything else follows after that. Killed me not getting Altuve onto the team.
   19. Cooper Nielson Posted: February 25, 2017 at 02:31 AM (#5408634)
It's different, but the 1997 Dodgers had six pitchers who each started 18 or more games (156 total) from five different countries. South Korea, Japan, Mexico, US, and two Dominicans.

Yep, that's the one that immediately sprang to mind for me. Didn't they call it the United Nations Rotation or something?

The 2008 Tigers could send out a starting infield + catcher from 5 different countries/territories:

C - Ivan Rodriguez, Puerto Rico
1B - Miguel Cabrera, Venezuela
2B - Placido Polanco, Dominican Republic
SS - Edgar Renteria, Colombia
3B - Brandon Inge, U.S. (Carlos Guillen of Venezuela started more often, but Inge started 33 games at 3B)

But that was the full extent of countries represented on their roster.
   20. esseff Posted: February 25, 2017 at 03:23 AM (#5408636)
Bochy's got to be the manager, right? I don't think any team mentioned so far precludes that.
   21. BDC Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5408663)
Best I can find so far in 2016 is a game or two where the Mariners used players from the US, PR, DR, Cuba, Japan, Korea, and Venezuela, though not all seven in a single starting lineup.

Not as hard to search in B-Ref PI as you might imagine, because you can search for games in which players not born in the US appear. But then you still have to sort through and try to guess which teams will have the widest distribution.
   22. Bug Selig Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5408666)
Even if it was to play LF, I'd take Kang over Choo as my Korean 8 times a week.
   23. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: February 25, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5408678)
Give it a few years and you might see a 9 country starting lineup for a single team, sort of like a variant of Bert Campaneris playing all 9 positions in one game.

As an afterthought, I wonder what team will be the closest to having that 9 country lineup in 2017.

EDIT: Looks like BDC might have given us the early favorite for that honor, as well as first posing the question. Give the man a Global Coke.
   24. Jose Canusee Posted: February 25, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5408699)
Can you add Bill "Spaceman" Lee and Greg "Moon Man" Minton as representing extraterrestrial territories?
   25. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5408702)
RosterResource's MLB depth charts might be useful here. Nation of origin is one of the pieces of info they track.

Seattle's projected lineup is 5 Americans, 3 Dominicans, and a Cuban.

Though their rotation is a diverse group (Venezuelan, Japanese, Canadian, Mexican, and American). They've apparently got a South African starter in AA too.

Twins could have an international lineup...typical US/Dominican mix, but with a Cuban and a German as well. And some Venezuelan utility men coming off the bench.
   26. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 01:36 PM (#5408703)
Man, Washington's 25-man roster is entirely American...aside from Oliver Perez at LOOGY. And possibly someone named Enny Romero who might make the bullpen.
   27. BDC Posted: February 25, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5408710)
The greatest number of non-US-born players that a team has used in a single game is fifteen, by the Mets against the Cardinals on 17 April 2010. The game went 20 innings and at least the Mets won :)

The Mets used nine US-born players, four Dominicans, four Venezuelans, three Puerto Ricans, two Japanese, one Cuban, and one Canadian. And for a kicker, Frank Catalanotto of the Italian national team came in to pinch-hit.

This game apparently is the record for most non-US-born players used by both teams (22), though I don't feel like counting them all right now.

I've included Puerto-Rican-born players in these searches because B-Ref PI separates them out, and as Jose notes they have their own WBC team.
   28. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5408731)
All time 25 man roster with one player from each country:

C - Russell Martin - Can
1B - Miguel Cabrera - Ven
2B - Roberto Alomar - PR
SS - Edgar Renteria - Colombia
3B - Vinny Castilla - Mexico
LF/SP - Babe Ruth - USA
CF - Devon White - Jamaica
RF - Ichiro - Japan


SP - Pedro Martinez - DR
SP - Bert Blyleven - Netherlands
SP - Tony Mullane - Ireland
SP - Dennis Martinez - Nic
CL - Mariano Rivera - Panama

Bench
C/MGR - Bruce Bochy - France
IF - Bobby Thomson - UK
IF - Glenn Hubbard - Germany
IF - Xander Boegarts - Aruba
OF - Shin So Choo - ROK
OF - Paolo Orlando - Brazil
OF - Tony Oliva - Cuba (starts when Ruth pitches)


Pen

RP - Danny Graves - Vietnam
RP - Kenley Jansen - Curacao
RP - Chin Mien Wang - Taiwan
RP - Moe Drabowsky - Poland
RP - Alex Wilson - Saudi Arabia

GM - Al Campanis - Greece


   29. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: February 25, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5408733)
Joe's rule that territories are considered separately from the sovereign country isn't consistent with the rules of the WBC, which seemingly inspired the post. Curacao and Aruba play for the Netherlands, but Puerto Rico plays indepently.
   30. Batman Posted: February 25, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5408742)
Charlie Hough was born in Hawaii before it became a state, if that counts for an all-time team.
   31. Mike Webber Posted: February 25, 2017 at 04:34 PM (#5408757)
@28 - Elmer Valo of the Czech Republic would slot in ahead of Paulo Orlando with 28 WAR.
   32. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5408759)
@28 - Elmer Valo of the Czech Republic would slot in ahead of Paulo Orlando with 28 WAR.


Good catch.
   33. Ziggy's screen name Posted: February 25, 2017 at 05:26 PM (#5408775)
You guys have no imagination. How about Jack Quinn, of the Austro-Hungarian Empire?

Other ideas (not that they're all good ones):
Tommy Bond will be happy to represent Ireland if Tony Mullane can't make it.
He was terrible, but if you need a Norwegean/third-string catcher, Arndt Jorgens can play.
Apparently Victor Cole was the only Soviet to play in MLB, but his career was only a month long.
Harry Wright offers to manage and represent England.
Jim McCormick will pitch for Scotland (and wonder why his 75 WAR didn't get him into the hall of fame).
Jimmy Autin was a league-average Welshman.
   34. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5408778)
Other ideas (not that they're all good ones):
Tommy Bond will be happy to represent Ireland if Tony Mullane can't make it.
He was terrible, but if you need a Norwegean/third-string catcher, Arndt Jorgens can play.
Apparently Victor Cole was the only Soviet to play in MLB, but his career was only a month long.
Harry Wright offers to manage and represent England.
Jim McCormick will pitch for Scotland (and wonder why his 75 WAR didn't get him into the hall of fame).
Jimmy Autin was a league-average Welshman.


A) sure, fine.
B) now that I've booted Orlando, I have Yan Gomes in the minors
C) Yeah, but I don't need any terrible players
D-F) Bochy is more than serviceable as manager, and Bobby Thomson is a useful bat off the bench
   35. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5408800)
I remember every year in university a friend of mine used to draw up rosters for a intra-Canada hockey tournament based on province of birth (though like the Brier Ontario would be split into North and South to make it sporting).

I tried something similar with an all-time league of US states and foreign nations in baseball. I couldn't figure out a satisfying way to import a whole player's career into OOTP though. I tried just plugging in each player's 3rd best season as a rough way of getting a feel for them at their best, while limiting the impact of one-hit wonders. Anyway, I think I ended up being able to field something like 40 odd full teams (even limiting myself to players with real careers).
   36. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:24 PM (#5408809)
I tried something similar with an all-time league of US states and foreign nations in baseball. I couldn't figure out a satisfying way to import a whole player's career into OOTP though. I tried just plugging in each player's 3rd best season as a rough way of getting a feel for them at their best, while limiting the impact of one-hit wonders. Anyway, I think I ended up being able to field something like 40 odd full teams (even limiting myself to players with real careers).


Cali would likely dominate a state vs state tourney, but Florida could be competitive:

C - Al Lopez
1B - Fred McGriff
2B - Ian Desmond
SS - Jay Bell
3B - Chipper Jones
LF - Tim Raines
CF - Andre Dawson
RF - Gary Sheffield

SP - Steve Carlton
SP - Zach Greinke
SP - Tim Wakefield
SP - Mike Hampton
SP - Dwight Gooden
CL - Andrew Miller

Lots of good up and comers who could improve on the starters including McCutchen, Rizzo, Addison Russell, Sale, Matt Moore, Carlos Rodon, Josh Donaldson, Manny Machado
   37. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:44 PM (#5408813)
Cali would likely dominate a state vs state tourney, but Florida could be competitive:

California was by far the best team (to the point that I considered splitting them into North and South).

The surprise for me was Pennsylvania. They looked like the #2 team to me with a rotation of Mathewson, Walsh, Plank, Mussina, and Waddell. Stan Coveleski hung around as the world's best long man.

Wagner, Musial, Griffey, Reggie Jackson, and Dick Allen made for a pretty terrifying heart of the order too. If you include DHs you can get both Piazza and Campanella into the game too.

The rotations were actually interesting...while California was clearly the best team, it was a bit of a top heavy rotation. Randy Johnson and Tom Seaver is a decent one-two punch. But Stieb/Appier/Langston is a pretty lackluster back-end of the rotation for the best team in the world. I suppose you could fit that bum Drysdale in as well.

As note, I keep the lists lying around, but only include retired players (that way I get to update it every year!)

...in 15-20 years Nevada should have a good team of retired players!
   38. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:48 PM (#5408814)
As an indication of how ridiculous California is, this is their bench:

C Lombardi
1B McGwire
2B Gordon
OF Snider
OF Gwynn
OF Edmonds

if you played with no DH Ted Williams would shove Heilmann off the starting 9. Though at that point I'd consider losing one of those outfielders and find some more depth behind Trammell at short.
   39. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 07:58 PM (#5408818)
Spending a lazy Saturday looking through old spreadsheets...

Team Georgia seems like it would have a fun clubhouse.
Ty Cobb, Jackie Robinson, and Dixie Walker in the starting lineup. Kevin Brown as the team ace. That's a lot of big personalities, as they say.
   40. djordan Posted: February 25, 2017 at 08:01 PM (#5408819)
1B Votto
2B Cano
CF Trout
3B Miggy
LF Cespedes
DH Bogaerts
RF Choo
SS Gregorious
C Maxwell (Germany)

SP Tanaka
   41. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 25, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5408823)
[33] It always strikes me as weird whenever England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland compete as different countries in international tournaments (also weird in the Olympics where Great Britain competes as its own entity while Northern Ireland is considered part of regular Ireland).
   42. Howie Menckel Posted: February 25, 2017 at 09:02 PM (#5408830)
(also weird in the Olympics where Great Britain competes as its own entity while Northern Ireland is considered part of regular Ireland).

Rory McIlroy of Northern Ireland had said he would compete for that generic Ireland golf team in the Olympics in Brazil last summer. He finds the whole "troubles" thing baffling, at his young age.

Eventually he used the Zika virus ploy to avoid the Games, as several other top players who had no interest in sidetracking their Tour schedules did. But recently, he acknowledged that it was as much not getting sucked into some ancient conflict of the Irelands.

He also was mystified last year when golf reporters asked him about Trump, who he sometimes plays 18 holes with (including last weekend, with ex-Yankee Paul O'Neill). He said he is not an American and Trump is just a guy he plays golf with sometimes.

Meanwhile, the Tour usually goes to Trump's Doral course in Miami next week for the annual stop. But that event has been moved, after 54 years, to another site.

wait for it wait for it wait for it..... Club de Golf Chapultepec in Mexico City.

Trump was on hand as usual for the final round last year. no word if he'll be back next weekend.
:)

   43. bookbook Posted: February 25, 2017 at 09:08 PM (#5408834)
I assume this is just place of birth, otherwise A-Rod might have a chance to beat out Jay Bell.
   44. Kiko Sakata Posted: February 25, 2017 at 09:22 PM (#5408836)
California was by far the best team (to the point that I considered splitting them into North and South).

The surprise for me was Pennsylvania. They looked like the #2 team to me with a rotation of Mathewson, Walsh, Plank, Mussina, and Waddell. Stan Coveleski hung around as the world's best long man.

Wagner, Musial, Griffey, Reggie Jackson, and Dick Allen made for a pretty terrifying heart of the order too. If you include DHs you can get both Piazza and Campanella into the game too


In terms of star power relative to overall state population, Maryland - Babe Ruth, Cal Ripken, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Harold Baines - and Alabama - starting outfield of Billy Williams, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron - do very well. I believe the problem for both states is that you can't fill every position and you have almost no depth compared to your larger states.
   45. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:02 PM (#5408841)
Maryland - Babe Ruth, Cal Ripken, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Harold Baines

Don't forget Al Kaline! Him and Home Run Baker give you quite a few elite players.

Maryland does has a very strong team. In fact, I have Mark Teixeira pushing Baines off the 25-man roster now that his career appears to be over.

What keeps Maryland in a tier behind the super-duper elite is, as you say, depth. Babe Phelps at catcher and Buck Herzog at 2B are not Hall of Famers. Though I think Maryland would score runs as well as anyone. Pitching depth kind of hurts them....Denny Neagle makes their rotation, which is not super.

Alabama - starting outfield of Billy Williams, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron - do very well. I believe the problem for both states is that you can't fill every position and you have almost no depth compared to your larger states.

Alabama is even more heavily swayed towards offence. Maryland has some elite pitching before you get into the depth problems, whereas Alabama is trying to decide if Jimmy Key or Don Sutton is their ace.

But I think in a lot of seasons Maryland would hang in there with the big boys. Alabama is a bit behind, but a plausible contender. I think the perennial powers would be California, Pennsylvania, New York, and Ohio. Maryland, Illinois, Texas, Maryland, and possibly Alabama are hanging around there too. As mentioned up thread, if you include active players Florida is making a push too. Which is pretty amazing...of all their frontline players, I think only Steve Carlton played before the mid-80s. Compared to other teams which have been accumulating players for over 100 years (the Dominican team fits that description too, and is the first foreign one to really have any shot at all).
   46. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:07 PM (#5408842)
In terms of star power relative to overall state population, Maryland - Babe Ruth, Cal Ripken, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove, Harold Baines - and Alabama - starting outfield of Billy Williams, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron - do very well.

Oklahoma as well - a legitimately outstanding starting lineup (and something like half a dozen star outfielders):
C Johnny Bench
1B Willie Stargell
2B Johnny Ray
SS Al Dark
3B Harlond Clift
LF Choice of Matt Holliday, Bobby Murcer, or Indian Bob Johnson
CF Mickey Mantle
RF Paul Waner

Pitching is pretty thin after Allie Reynolds though.
   47. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:08 PM (#5408843)
New York and Ohio are the powers so far that haven't been mentioned.

Especially if you add Alex Rodriguez to NY.

C - Torre
1B - Gehrig
2B - Collins
3B - Rodriguez
SS - Davis
LF - Yastrzemski
CF - van Slyke
RF - Colavito
DH - Greenberg

Maybe put A-Rod at short and bring Edgar in to play 3B? The roster is not quite ideal as you have Gehrig/Greenberg/Edgar on the short end of the defensive spectrum, while the outfield is comparatively weak. Is it worth putting Greenberg out in the field?

Spahn, Koufax and Palmer give you a strong front-end. I've got Whitey Ford and Orel Hershiser holding up the back end, which is less than elite...but better than California's #4 and #5.
   48. Howie Menckel Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:16 PM (#5408847)
how is the NJ team?
   49. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:23 PM (#5408850)
how is the NJ team?

In a pack with, say, South Carolina, Nebraska, or Mississippi. Though probably the most balanced of the bunch. Nebraska's got the most star power (Boggs, Alexander, Bob Gibson, Ashburn), but it really falls off after that. I suppose they are closest to South Carolina. Jersey has Jeter, Carolina has Joe Jackson, but after that they both have decently distributed depth. Though I think Jersey is a bit better.

I remember I did a ranking as of a couple years ago....I'll see if I can find it.
   50. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5408851)
Due to my poor notation I don't know at what point I did these rankings...but at some point in the last 5 years I have the following (numbers are a weighted measure I came up with to put a value on each 25-man roster...no follow up questions on what the hell they are based on, as I have no clue):

California 92.66
Pennsylvania 87.52
New York 81.27
Ohio 81.11
Texas 77.80
Illinois 71.36
Maryland 69.47
Alabama 67.00
Georgia 63.33
Missouri 62.79
Indiana 62.75
Michigan 62.43
Florida 60.02
Oklahoma 59.18
Dominican 56.63
Louisiana 56.00
Massachusetts 54.65
North Carolina 53.24
Puerto Rico 52.75
Tennessee 51.70
Arkansas 50.70
Wisconsin 50.68
Iowa 46.70
Cuba 46.31
Kentucky 46.63
South Carolina 46.29
Nebraska 45.45
New Jersey 43.37
Minnesota 42.24
Washington 40.98
Kansas 40.51
Mississippi 39.12
Canada 39.04
Venezuela 37.13
Virginia 33.36
Oregon 32.28
West Virginia 29.35
Panama 23.18
Connecticut 21.78
Mexico 21.73
Rhode Island 19.17
D.C. 19.12
Colorado 16.79
New Hampshire 15.99
Arizona 13.87
Idaho 12.54
Vermont 12.26
Delaware 11.69
   51. Kiko Sakata Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5408852)
I remember I did a ranking as of a couple years ago....I'll see if I can find it.


New Jersey's going to look a lot better in centerfield than they did a few years ago, especially if you focus on players' peaks rather than career values.
   52. Greg K Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5408854)
New Jersey's going to look a lot better in centerfield than they did a few years ago, especially if you focus on players' peaks rather than career values.

Are you suggesting Mike Trout is good enough to unseat Elliott Maddox in CF?

Crazy talk.
   53. BDC Posted: February 25, 2017 at 10:41 PM (#5408860)
also weird in the Olympics where Great Britain competes as its own entity while Northern Ireland is considered part of regular Ireland

I believe that athletes from the Six Counties of northern Ireland can choose whether to compete for Ireland, or for Great Britain, in the Olympics. This is because of the long-standing principle whereby the Republic of Ireland recognizes people born in those counties as Irish citizens, while the UK recognizes them as British citizens. The weirdness is a vestige of the even weirder situation where the Republic (till the 1998 accords) asserted that those counties were part of the Republic, despite their overwhelming de facto status as part of the UK.

Every sport presents something a little different. Gaelic sports are played throughout Ireland as if there were no border. Northern Ireland has its own soccer team, as does the Republic and each of the countries within Britain. In both versions of rugby, and in cricket, however, Ireland has a single team (and each of the British countries its own). The situation has a lot to do with the histories and social connotations of the given sports, naturally.
   54. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 26, 2017 at 08:32 AM (#5408890)
Maybe someone could put together an all-time state team simulation. Make 25-man (and 40-man since there will be injuries) rosters for each state and then simulate a 50 team league. As for the player stats, you can use the Strat-o-Matic Hall of Fame card method of averaging each player's seven best seasons. (use WAR to determine best seasons or their entire career if they don't have seven seasons)
   55. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2017 at 09:37 AM (#5408901)
Florida 25 man:

C - Charles Johnson
1B - Fred McGriff
2B - Robby Thomson
SS - Jay Bell
3B - Chipper Jones
LF - Tim Raines
CF - Andre Dawson
RF - Gary Sheffield

SP - Steve Carlton
SP - Zach Greinke
SP - Tim Wakefield
SP - Mike Hampton
SP - Dwight Gooden

Bench

Luis Gonzalez
Boog Powell
Mike Stanley
Andrew McCutchen
Manny Machado
Davey Johnson

Pen

Andrew Miller
Flash Gordon
Wade Davis
Chris Sale
Bobby Thigpen
Darren O'Day

40 man:

Al Lopez
Bill White
Daniel Murphy
Scott Fletcher
Josh Donaldson
J D Drew
Mickey Rivers
Hal McRae

Rick Rhoden
Bronson Arroyo
Mudcat Grant
Matt Moore
Jay Howell
Cody Allen
Sam Dyson

Manager - Davey Johnson
   56. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5408903)
But California is insane:

Gary Carter
Eddie Murray
Jeff Kent
Alan Trammell
Darrell Evans
Ted Williams
Joe DiMaggio
Barry Bonds

Tom Seaver
Randy Johnson
Don Drysdale
Dave Steib
C C Sabathia
Dennis Eckersley

With a bench of HOFers.
   57. Howie Menckel Posted: February 26, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5408915)
all of those CA guys are in the HOM except Sabathia
   58. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 26, 2017 at 11:48 AM (#5408923)
That is quite an OF California has.
   59. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5408932)
Their AAA OF is Tony Gwynn, Duke Snider, and harry Heilmann. HOFer Harry Hooper is in AA
   60. BDC Posted: February 26, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5408936)
Heilmann and Hooper go to show that there was a long tradition of star players from California, even over a century ago when it was still a middling state in terms of population. The deadball majors had several California stars: Gavvy Cravath, Frank Chance, Orval Overall, Chief Meyers, Fred Snodgrass, Hooper's outfield mate Duffy Lewis, Hal Chase. Later, George Kelly was from California, as were the Meusel brothers. If you made up these teams retrospectively as of a given date, California would be a contender early on.

I always associate Sam Crawford with California, too, but of course he was from Wahoo, Nebraska and moved to California after his major-league career.
   61. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5408941)
Heilmann and Hooper go to show that there was a long tradition of star players from California, even over a century ago when it was still a middling state in terms of population


In 1900, CA had 9 electoral votes. The same as MN and MS. Fewer than KS, IA, and AL
   62. Baldrick Posted: February 26, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5408969)
This has been a really fun thread. I love how much people around here know about baseball.
   63. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: February 26, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5409109)
Using Greg's list as a reference - fun to look at the cellar dwellars...

Arizona 13.87
Idaho 12.54
Vermont 12.26
Delaware 11.69


Delaware is indeed awful. Paul Goldschmidt is probably far and away the best player - next probably would be Delino DeShields. The OF would be something like Randy Bush, John Mabry, and a cup-of-coffee or deadball CF you've probably never heard of. The ace is probably either Chris Short or one of a couple of pre-1901 hurlers (Sadie McMahon or Bert Cunningham).

Vermont at least has a Hall of Famer (Carlton Fisk), though not much besides and a particularly bad pitching staff.

Idaho also has at least a HoFer (Killebrew), though, beyond that -- it's various members of the Law family (Vern, Vance), Larry Jackson, Jason Schmidt.

Arizona surprises me - though, I suspect it's better days are yet to come... most of the team is either still active or relatively recent. The pitching is a disaster (John Denny leads the rotation, Bob Howry anchors the bullpen... and there's not much depth), but you can at least fill the lineup with guys who've had (or are having) their moments (Andre Ethier, Ian Kinsler, JJ Hardy, etc).

I'm guessing the lack of a couple states on the list (Wyoming, North Dakota, etc) is because they can't actually even field a team... at least, not without dipping into minor leaguers.

   64. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: February 26, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5409120)
Just for fun, looking at my own state of birth -- the surprisingly strong Indiana. They probably can't hang with the big boys, but would certainly be in contention for best of the non-Cali/NY/Texas race.

The OF is pretty loaded and the entire lineup is pretty well-manned, though catcher is very weak. The pitching is top-heavy and drops off quickly, but the top-end is certainly good enough to be scared of in a short series.

OF: Five Hall of Famers -- Chuck Klein, Sam Rice, Max Carey, Ed Roush, Sam Thompson... plus Kenny Lofton.

The IF would have either Don Mattingly or Gil Hodges at 1B, Hall of Famer Billy Herman at 2B, Hall of Meriter Scott Rolen at 3B. SS is probably Detroit Tigers WWI era Donie Bush... or Maybe Dickie Thon if you get the pre-beaning version. Craig Counsell would probably the utility guy.

Catcher is a struggle -- either Bubbles Hargrave or Milt May... they'd probably be platooned.

Mordecai Brown and Amos Rusie anchor the rotation -- and there's actually decent depth behind them with some solid HoVG guys (Bob Friend, Freddie Fitzsimmons, Hooks Dauss, Babe Adams) and then a gaggle of solid citizens who had their moments -- Dizzy Trout, Bob Erskine, Andy Benes, Paul Splitorff. The pen would be the rotation leftovers probably with Dan Plesac and LaTroy Hawkins.

It would be a pretty decent team -- a really deep OF. Perhaps not so much depth behind a perfectly serviceable IF -- Herman could slide over to 3B when Rolen got hurt, but then you've got a hole at 2B that would have require someone like Counsel to be in the starting lineup. They badly need to develop a catcher.
   65. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2017 at 10:15 PM (#5409163)
I'm guessing the lack of a couple states on the list (Wyoming, North Dakota, etc) is because they can't actually even field a team... at least, not without dipping into minor leaguers.


ND has 17 major leaguers. Darrin Erstad, Travis Hafner, Rick Helling, and 14 guys you have never heard of. OK, Tim Johnson, but the only reason I ever heard of him was when he was fired for lying about his Vietnam service. Even though the Roger Maris museum is in Fargo, he was born in MN.

AK has Curt Schilling, who won 216 of the 295 games won by Alaskans, and Josh Phelps, who hit 64 of the 85 HR hit by Alaskans.

Montana is populated by Orioles. The three most well known Montanans are John Lowenstein, Dave McNally, and Jeff Ballard.


   66. Greg K Posted: February 27, 2017 at 08:54 AM (#5409238)
I'm guessing the lack of a couple states on the list (Wyoming, North Dakota, etc) is because they can't actually even field a team... at least, not without dipping into minor leaguers.

Yeah, I realize now there was a second page to my list I didn't copy and paste. It's mostly states with only one or two significant players, or nations like Norway or the Czech Republic.
   67. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: February 27, 2017 at 10:11 AM (#5409288)
Ohio is well represented, even on the Manager and GM side

GM - Branch Rickey
Manager - Miller Huggins
Bench Coach - Walter Alston

C - Buck Ewing HOF
1 - George Sisler HOF
2 - Pete Rose Gambling
S - Barry Larkin HOF
3 - Mike Schmidt HOF
O - Ed Delahanty HOF
CF - Jimmy Wynn
O - Elmer Flick

SP - Cy Young
SP - Roger Clemens
SP - Phil Niekro
SP - Joe Niekro

since Cy and Phil have rubber arms, I think Ohio can get away with only 4 starters, but, if you need more...
SP - Sad Sam Jones
SP - Urban Shocker
SP - Jesse Haines
SP - Rube Marquard

RP - Rollie Fingers
RP - Jeff Montgomery
RP - Jeff Shaw
RP - Kent Tekulve
RP - Jeff Russell

Bench
Al Oliver
Paul O'Neill
Roger Bresnahan
Dummy Hoy
Sal Bando
Frank Howard
David Justice
Tommy Heinrich

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
JPWF13
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 2018 October 15: The shift in focus from sport to politics
(1457 - 12:53pm, Oct 21)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogMLB -- Manny Machado, Yasiel Puig embrace their villain roles all the way to the World Series
(5 - 12:52pm, Oct 21)
Last: perros

NewsblogMookie Betts to second base? Alex Cora isn’t ruling it out | Boston.com
(11 - 12:44pm, Oct 21)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogMLB must fix glaring problem that ruined an all-time classic
(99 - 12:39pm, Oct 21)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(804 - 12:38pm, Oct 21)
Last: NJ in NY (Now with Toddler!)

Gonfalon CubsNow what?
(115 - 12:21pm, Oct 21)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogLEAGUE CHAMPION SERIES OMNICHATTER! for the 2018 Playoffs!
(2616 - 10:43am, Oct 21)
Last: perros

NewsblogWhat It Took to Write About Baseball as a Woman
(26 - 10:27am, Oct 21)
Last: AndrewJ

NewsblogThe Brewers are becoming more and more positionless on defense | SI.com
(23 - 10:26am, Oct 21)
Last: Greg Pope

NewsblogFor Dave Dombrowski, Another World Series on the Path to the Hall of Fame - The New York Times
(3 - 7:43am, Oct 21)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogOT - October 2018 College Football thread
(156 - 11:42pm, Oct 20)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogWhy The Dodgers' WS Odds are So High
(27 - 11:28pm, Oct 20)
Last: Baldrick

NewsblogCatch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (October 2018)
(544 - 10:57pm, Oct 20)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogBest 2018-19 Hot Stove value may be in trade
(2 - 6:44pm, Oct 20)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogAstros' Jose Altuve underwent surgery to repair right knee injury
(1 - 6:01pm, Oct 20)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

Page rendered in 0.5282 seconds
46 querie(s) executed