Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, July 05, 2012

Posnanski: Star Search

Do you believe the ratings have gotten Sin-bad, or are you a non-believer like Sam Harris??

The very purpose of the All-Star Game—the extravaganza of seeing the best players in one place—has simply lost most of its appeal… The big gimmick, obviously, is giving the winning league home-field advantage during the World Series. This is pretty ridiculous if you think about it for more than a few seconds and has been mocked appropriately but, beyond the mocking, I have to say I don’t really mind it. The old way of alternating home-field advantage was even more stupid… There’s no perfect way to do it, so I don’t really care if they give it to the All-Star Game winner. It’s just one step up from a coin flip, but maybe like Geena Davis says in “A League Of Their Own”: It’s an important step.

But saying that the home-field advantage gimmick isn’t particularly harmful isn’t the same as saying that it adds much fun to the game. I don’t think it adds anything at all. Watching the remaining All-Stars on the bench play in the last couple of innings with home-field advantage on the line is sort of the opposite of enjoyable for me; it’s like watching the bubble players in an NFL preseason game try to put the game-winning drive together (or stop it) for the right to play on Monday Night Football in December. It is incongruous and feels absurd.

This is a personal opinion: I would kind of like to see baseball go the other way. Instead of trying to add meaning to the game, it seems to me, it should celebrate the fact that the game doesn’t mean anything. If it does that, it can take some chances. I think the All-Star Game is the perfect time to try all sorts of things that fans might like to see, just once. It should try full-fledged replay. It should try robotic umpiring—with the umpires wearing special headphones that beep when a pitch is called a strike by the computer. It should play with a juiced ball one year, a dead ball another. It should choose a pile of All-Stars and have the two managers draft them. It should have players wear the old wool uniforms, it should have them use the old gloves, it should make it more interactive—there are a million things it could do to make the game fun and tie it to history without changing the rules. I think it should try all of them.

I’m not saying these things would work and would make the All-Star Game big again. I think that ship has sailed. Twenty-four million people watched in 1991, and 11 million people watched last year. That was the lowest rated All-Star Game ever, and I think it’s probably only going to get worse. But 11 million viewers is still a lot—it’s still the biggest sporting event on television between the end of the NBA Finals and the start of football—and I think there are ways to keep baseball fans at least somewhat interested. But I think it’s telling that, right now, the most fun part about the All-Star Game is arguing about it before it even gets played.

The District Attorney Posted: July 05, 2012 at 01:23 PM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: all-star game, joe posnanski

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4173809)
As a kid in Cleveland, there was this amazing moment of pride when they would announce the Indians player on the team, even if that player happened to be Dave LaRoche (1976), Dennis Eckersley (1977), Jim Kern (1976 and 1978), Sid Monge (1979) and, Lord help me, Jorge Orta (1980).


Kids in KC:
Mike MacDougal (2003)
Ken Harvey (2004)
Mike Sweeney (2005)
Mark Redman (2006)
Gil Meche (2007)
   2. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4173832)
Hey, Mike Sweeney was pretty good.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4173835)
Yea, well Eck is a HOFer!
   4. Srul Itza Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4173837)
Baseball’s All-Star Game is the one that has tried the hardest to stay relevant -- in large part, I suspect, because it plays such a big role in baseball’s history. There is nothing in any other All-Star Game to compare with Carl Hubbell’s successive strikeouts, Pete Rose running over Ray Fosse, Ted Williams hitting the eephus pitch out, Dave Parker’s throw, Fred Lynn’s grand slam or Bo Jackson’s massive center field homer. I just came up with six All-Star moments off the top of my head -- it would be difficult to come up with one in any other sport.*


Other moments I remember are Reggie Jackson's light tower home run, Torii Hunter's catch (and Barry's response) and the reaction of the stars when Ted Williams was driven out to throw out the first pitch.

Nostalgia is a big part of Baseball's attraction, and the All Star Game is about nostalgia.

   5. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4173839)
2011 Gio Gonzalez (P)
2010 Andrew Bailey (P), Trevor Cahill (P)
2009 Andrew Bailey (P)
2008 Justin Duchscherer (P)
2007 Dan Haren (P)
2006 Barry Zito (P)
2005 Justin Duchscherer (P)


2010 Evan Meek (P)
2009 Zach Duke (P), Freddy Sanchez (2B)
2008 Nate McLouth (OF)
2007 Freddy Sanchez (2B)
2006 Jason Bay (OF), Freddy Sanchez (3B)
2005 Jason Bay (OF)
2004 Jack Wilson (SS)
2003 Mike Williams (P)
2002 Mike Williams (P)
   6. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4173846)
Other moments I remember are Reggie Jackson's light tower home run,


That HR & Pete Rose's collision with Ray Fosse are indelible memories for me.

the reaction of the stars when Ted Williams was driven out to throw out the first pitch


Wish I'd seen this, but I would've been working on a Tuesday night. (Is it on YouTube? I've called myself looking in the past, but it's been awhile.) Just as well, though -- while we almost certainly had one of the newsroom TVs turned to the game (I was night city editor in Little Rock back then), I know very well that scene would've reduced me to tears, which would've been embarrassing.


Edit: Google shows a video on NESN. My computer here at home can't handle such; I'll have to look at it at work tomorrow. Luckily, my cubicle is pretty secluded.
   7. DA Baracus Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4173861)
So many memorable moments...

Randy Johnson vs John Kruk.

Dan Uggla vs batted balls.

Tommy Lasorda vs a bat.

Bud Selig vs fans.
   8. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4173862)
I think the biggest issue with the All Star Game is that we see the players all the time. As a kid Dave Parker's throwing arm was just a rumor, something I read about. Then I saw it (twice!) in an All Star Game and I was awestruck. If this were 1977 much of America would be clamoring for a chance to see Mike Trout or Bryce Harper, in 2012 every baseball fan in American has seen these guys at least in highlight form. Hell, I watched Harper's first MLB at bat on a telephone while sitting in a bar. That is science fiction stuff.

The other difference is that it's a "meaningless exhibition." The idea of games that don't matter seems to me a relatively new one. Whether it's the ASG or just a "meaningless mid-season game" it seems that fans have bought into the idea of not giving it your all unless it's a super-duper-wicked-mega-important game. In the "fight" or "live to fight" test "live to fight" seems to be the winning scenario. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's a change (or seems to be to me) from when I was a kid. That may be BITGOD on my part but I think it's a part of what makes the ASG less important.
   9. McCoy Posted: July 05, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4173865)
1974: Don Kessinger
1975: Bill Madlock
1976: Steve Swisher
1977: Jerry Morales, Rick Reuschel, Manny Trillo, Bruce Sutter
1978: Bruce Sutter
1979: Dave Kingman, Bruce Sutter
1980: Dave Kingman, Bruce Sutter
1981: Bill Buckner
1982: Leon Durham
1983: Leon Durham, Lee Smith
   10. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4173913)
1988 *Ozzie Guillen (SS).
1987 Harold Baines (OF)
1986 Harold Baines (OF)
1985 #Carlton Fisk (C), Harold Baines (OF)
1984 Richard Dotson (P)
1983 Ron Kittle (OF)
1982 #Carlton Fisk (C)
   11. BDC Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4173936)
You're right about the pervasiveness of media today, Jose. Though back in the 10- and early-12-team-league days, I would watch the Game of the Week on weekends and become acquainted with the stars of the other league pretty consistently. Other factors are also clearly at work: interleague play (so that it's no longer rare to see Josh Hamilton bat against Ian Kennedy, or whoever), and the bloated rosters that offer us Pablo Sandoval batting against Brandon League as if that were somehow an epic matchup.

Interleague play we cannot get rid of, but rosters of 20 or so and the relaxation of all-teams-represented might make the game more momentous. One of my earliest baseball memories is sitting on my grandparents' screen porch and hearing Tony Perez hit the home run that won the 1967 ASG. Ten starters played all 15 innings, and among the extra-inning pitchers were Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver, and Catfish Hunter (who threw five innings and gave up the Perez HR). That was an event.
   12. Guapo Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4173943)
OK, so here's my "Amazing Moment of Pride All-Star" list since 1980. In order to qualify, you had to at a minimum (1) be the only All-Star selection from your team and (2) only be selected to one All-Star team in your career. (Jorge Orta was picked twice and is therefore ineligible). If more than one person was eligible, I picked the guy who seemed least like an All-Star.

1980: Ed Farmer, CWS
1981: Joel Youngblood, NYM
1982: Jim Clancy, TOR
1983: Matt Young, SEA
1984: Dave Engle, MIN
1985: Scott Garrelts, SFG
1986: Jim Presley, SEA
1987: Pat Tabler, CLE
1988: Gerald Perry, ATL
1989: Mike Henneman, DET
1990: Greg Olson, ATL
1991: Scott Sanderson, NYY
1992: Mike Sharperson, LAD
1993: No-one eligible
1994: Ricky Bones, MIL
1995: Carlos Perez, MON
1996: Ricky Bottalico, PHI
1997: Tony Womack, PIT
1998: Rolando Arrojo, TB
1999: Ron Coomer, MIN
2000: Shane Reynolds, HOU
2001: Paul Quantrill, TOR
2002: Robert Fick, DET
2003: Lance Carter, TB
2004: Ken Harvey, KCR
2005: Danys Baez, TB
2006: Mark Redman, KCR
2007: Gil Meche, KCR
2008: George Sherrill, BAL
2009: No obvious candidates
2010: Evan Meek, PIT
2011: Michael Cuddyer, MIN
2012: I’m looking at you, Ryan Cook, OAK
   13. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:30 PM (#4173951)
Nice work, Guapo.

1975: Bill Madlock
1976: Steve Swisher


The strange thing about that was that Madlock had won the batting title in 1975 and would win it again in 1976 (and had been the co-MVP of the 1975 ASG to boot). Why they put a bad catcher on the team in 1976 instead of Madlock is a mystery. It's not even like he had a bad first half in 1976: He was hitting .309 with 10 homers at the break.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4173965)
it would be difficult to come up with one in any other sport.*

Depends how you define it maybe. The early days of the NBA slam dunk competition provided lots of "great" moments thanks to Erving, Jordan, etc. But, yes, people point to the decline of the ASG but the Pro Bowl isn't even on network TV anymore is it? Does anybody watch the NBA ASG?

I once attended an NHL ASG in person. They named Gary Ungar of the Blues MVP over Stan Mikita* even though the game was in Chicago. Bastards!

Anyway, the ASG should really be for kids. I had the same "thrill" when the lone Cub rep took the field ... and it helped that Madlock and Sutter both won/shared MVPs. That of course wears off as your fandom "matures" and, as noted, there's no need for an ASG to see specific players anymore.

Oh, and the alternating WS HFA was the best and fairest way to do it. Deciding it by ASG is infinitely stupider. With IL play you could argue for the league that wins more often but that's problematic. The arbitrariness of alternating makes it exceptionally fair and avoids the issue of giving it to the team with the most wins when the teams played entirely different schedules. There is more argument for a win-based system within-league since the schedules will at least have a lot of overlap (esp in a "balanced" schedule of course). But as long as the leagues remain mostly separate, there is no good, objective way to determine the "best" team to any satisfaction and arbitrarily assigning HFA is the way to go. And given how many seemingly mediocre Marlin and Cardinal teams have won the WS ...

*If memory serves, Ungar had 2 goals and 1 assist and Mikita had 1 goal and 2 assists but c'mon!**

** h-r tells me this was the 1974 game (I was 12), that Unger is spelled with an "e", he's Garry with two "r"s, Mikita was also there but doesn't have the box score of the game.
   15. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4173973)
Oh, and the alternating WS HFA was the best and fairest way to do it.


Fair? I guess. Best? Not even close.

At least now it's tied to something other than the calendar. Now I'd personally like to see MLB go to the Best of 3 between the A-S game result; interleague play winner; and team with the best record. But given a choice between "This time it Counts" and "Is the year Divisible by 2?", I'll take Bud's Brainchild.

   16. Walt Davis Posted: July 05, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4173979)
#13:

a) Presumably it was partly a "we need a C" thing (Bob Boone was the other bench guy behind Bench so probably not a deep C year). Also Swisher was not execrably horrible in the first half.

b) Rose was at 3B that year and won the fan vote. Schmidt obviously needs to also be on. So it comes down to Madlock vs. Cey. Cey in the first half of 1976: 319/415/515 -- yowza! He had a poor second half and still finished with a 143 OPS+.

So the real soluation was for the Reds not to move Rose to 3B. (Wow, he was there for 4 years. I didn't remember him being there that long).
   17. PreservedFish Posted: July 05, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4173980)
But given a choice between "This time it Counts" and "Is the year Divisible by 2?", I'll take Bud's Brainchild.


In a vacuum, they seem to me equivalent, but the annoying chatter and marketing package that accompany Bud's Brainchild make me miss the alternating years setup.
   18. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: July 05, 2012 at 06:14 PM (#4173997)
Watching these guys not start, not play (*), or play badly (#), in the Midsummer Classic, was a hallmark of FLNRSA's youth:

1986 Kevin Bass, OF#; Glenn Davis, 1B#; Mike Scott, P#; Dave Smith, P*
1985 Jose Cruz, OF; Nolan Ryan, P
1984 Jerry Mumphrey, OF#
1983 Dickie Thon, SS; Bill Dawley, P
1982 Ray Knight, 3B
1981 Bob Knepper, P; Nolan Ryan, P
1980 Jose Cruz, OF*; J.R. Richard, P [only Astro in this period to start an ASG]
1979 Craig Reynolds, SS#; Joaquin Andujar, P#; Joe Niekro, P*; Joe Sambito, P
   19. Walt Davis Posted: July 05, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4174004)
#15: why? Winner of the ASG is every bit as arbitrary as alternating years or coin flips. It's only a single game that's often decided by "scrubs" and relievers. At best it gives you a trivial amount of information about which league is stronger (it's only a single game)but it tells you absolutely nothing about who the strongest team is ... and there's no guarantee the strongest team makes it to the WS anyway.

Not to mention there's really no good argument for why the "stronger" team deserves HFA. The notion of playoffs (or any tournament) is entirely based on the idea that all playoff teams are "equal." If you want to find the strongest team, get rid of the playoffs. HFA is just another gimmick to try to make "meaningless" games "meaningful." Why introduce unfairness?

Contrast this to the NCAA tournament where an "expert panel" decides the quality of the teams, giving "easier" schedules to the top teams. Still, in theory, nobody has HFA although they give "effective HFA" in the first 2-4 rounds (i.e. a semblance of fairness in keeping with the notion of a tournament of "equals"). But the schedule for the last two rounds is (kinda) arbitrary with no (intended) HFA. (Kinda arbitrary because the committee probably does hope to set up particular semi-final and final matchups).

So...

1) There's no justification for the "stronger" team getting HFA to begin with that doesn't run counter to the notion that a playoff tournament is needed to decide a champion.

2) Even if you don't accept 1, there's no good way to determine the stronger team when teams play different schedules, especially vastly different schedules. Throw in things like injury problems during the season (but with the players healthy now) or vice versa and the identification of the stronger team becomes more problematic. Giving HFA is necessary (assuming we don't want tied series or crappy tie-breakers) but introduces unfairness -- but you can't reliably reward the team you want to reward.

3) Winner of the ASG must be the dumbest possible way you could try to determine the stronger team.

4) Therefore you don't pretend you can determine who the stronger team is. An arbitrary method is fair and loses you nothing in terms of meaningfulness. Whether you want to do this by alternating or flipping coins doesn't matter.
   20. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 05, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4174030)
1) There's no justification for the "stronger" team getting HFA to begin with that doesn't run counter to the notion that a playoff tournament is needed to decide a champion.


Under that widely held principle, you might as well randomly draw who gets HFA in Rounds 1 and 2. That went over well in 1995-96.

2) Even if you don't accept 1, there's no good way to determine the stronger team when teams play different schedules, especially vastly different schedules. Throw in things like injury problems during the season (but with the players healthy now) or vice versa and the identification of the stronger team becomes more problematic. Giving HFA is necessary (assuming we don't want tied series or crappy tie-breakers) but introduces unfairness -- but you can't reliably reward the team you want to reward.


No, there isn't, which is why I like the Best 2 of 3 method. In that case HFA would go to the team with the best record unless that team's league failed to ID itself as superior in the only two on-field ways we have of comparing the two leagues. It also gives us one reason to care about interleague play results.

3) Winner of the ASG must be the dumbest possible way you could try to determine the stronger team.


I never said, implied, hinted at or gave any other indication that the ASG is a way of determing the stronger team. In fact, I don't believe anyone, anywhere, ever has. I suspect that's one of them strawmen I hear so much about.


4) Therefore you don't pretend you can determine who the stronger team is. An arbitrary method is fair and loses you nothing in terms of meaningfulness. Whether you want to do this by alternating or flipping coins doesn't matter.


If the A-S game is in your words, "every bit as arbitrary as alternating years or coin flips," and "an arbitrary method is fair and losing you nothing," then that sentence should be amended to say, "whether you want to do this by alternating or flipping coins or using the ASG game." Unless, that is, you want to have it both ways.

If there was a foolproof way of awarding HFA to the most deserving team (that doesn't involve massive expansion of interleague play), I'd be all for it. I don't think there is. Given that, I'd rather see HFA at least linked to something that happens on the baseball diamond, rather than the calendar.


   21. Bob Evans Posted: July 05, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4174114)
the relaxation of all-teams-represented

How about, no team under .450 on a certain day doesn't get an auto-pick? Or failure to be .450 at some point during a two-week period. I kind of like that idea.
   22. Lassus Posted: July 05, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4174226)
1981: Joel Youngblood, NYM

My favorite player for an incredibly brief youthful moment!
   23. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4174228)
Wait, who the #### is Evan Meek? How is it possible there was an All-Star two years ago who I have never heard of. Is this some kind of joke?
   24. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 06, 2012 at 12:56 AM (#4174252)
Wait, who the #### is Evan Meek? How is it possible there was an All-Star two years ago who I have never heard of. Is this some kind of joke?

I'm guessing you haven't heard of him because you aren't keeping tabs on middle relievers for the Pirates. And honestly, why would you?

And what's remarkable is that there weren't really any decent options, other than maybe McCutchen. Unless I'm missing someone, most of the guys who finished with decent years (a list of maybe three or four hitters) played better in the second half other than Ryan Doumit, who wasn't all that good really. Meek may have been the most deserving Pirate, not merely a beneficiary of the roster games. The Pirates have come along way in two years from that horrible team.
   25. caprules Posted: July 06, 2012 at 01:17 AM (#4174262)
meek, meek, it rhymes with reek.
   26.   Posted: July 06, 2012 at 01:39 AM (#4174266)
I fully agree with everything Poz said here, especially this:

This is a personal opinion: I would kind of like to see baseball go the other way. Instead of trying to add meaning to the game, it seems to me, it should celebrate the fact that the game doesn’t mean anything. If it does that, it can take some chances. I think the All-Star Game is the perfect time to try all sorts of things that fans might like to see, just once. It should try full-fledged replay. It should try robotic umpiring -- with the umpires wearing special headphones that beep when a pitch is called a strike by the computer. It should play with a juiced ball one year, a dead ball another. It should choose a pile of All-Stars and have the two managers draft them. It should have players wear the old wool uniforms, it should have them use the old gloves, it should make it more interactive -- there are a million things it could do to make the game fun and tie it to history without changing the rules. I think it should try all of them.


This is the only way I will ever be interested in the ASG again. Making it "matter" is futile. It will never "matter" nor should it. It should be fun.

I would take it one step further, though. Why not change the rules? Have 4-pitch walks result in two bases. Let pitchers balk. Let pitchers throw spit-balls. It's the ####### all-star game; make it interesting.
   27. Jim Wisinski Posted: July 06, 2012 at 02:26 AM (#4174271)
1998: Rolando Arrojo, TB


Arrojo wasn't a bad pick at all though. He had a 3.06 ERA at the break in 1998, would have been good for a 155ish ERA+ at the time.
   28. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 04:13 AM (#4174280)
HFA is just another gimmick to try to make "meaningless" games "meaningful."


That's a feature, not a bug.
   29. Russ Posted: July 06, 2012 at 06:39 AM (#4174287)

And what's remarkable is that there weren't really any decent options, other than maybe McCutchen. Unless I'm missing someone, most of the guys who finished with decent years (a list of maybe three or four hitters) played better in the second half other than Ryan Doumit, who wasn't all that good really. Meek may have been the most deserving Pirate, not merely a beneficiary of the roster games. The Pirates have come along way in two years from that horrible team.


::sniff:: When I read stuff like this, it almost brings me to tears. 20 years is a very long time to wait for a team like this Pirate club. The fact that we actually had an argument about Pirates being snubbed for token players from other teams instead of providing the token players is amazing. Honestly, I had a lot of doubts about Neal Huntington, but the change in the team over the last two years is remarkable, despite the fact that the personnel are not all that different.

A. McCutchen, Alvarez, Walker, Jones are still all the same (and Tabata before being sent down recently). McDonald and Karstens were both still in the rotation (and Morton was there before he got hurt). Hanrahan was still in the bullpen. Brad Lincoln is still here. It's basically a combination of patience with these guys and waiting for them to come around and putting upgrades (or at least not downgrades) in every slot that has been changed (particularly in the bullpen).


   30. Howie Menckel Posted: July 06, 2012 at 07:14 AM (#4174290)

"Arrojo wasn't a bad pick at all though."

non sequitir alert.
   31. JE (Jason) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 08:45 AM (#4174303)
So many memorable moments...

Randy Johnson vs John Kruk.

Ugh. That match-up might have done more to net him the ESPN gig than anything else he did in the majors.
   32. Guapo Posted: July 06, 2012 at 10:05 AM (#4174352)
Arrojo wasn't a bad pick at all though. He had a 3.06 ERA at the break in 1998, would have been good for a 155ish ERA+ at the time.


1998 was a tough call. There are a number of candidates who qualified based on the criteria I set up (their only All-Star Game, and the only selection from their team that year):

Damion Easley, DET
Ben Grieve, OAK
Dean Palmer, KC
Brad Radke, MIN
Fernando Vina, MIL

I would throw out Grieve, since he won the Rookie of the Year in 1998, and Radke, since he had a good career and I think most people would be surprised he only made one All-Star team (at least I was). Easley, Palmer, and Vina all played long enough that they could arguably qualify for the HOF ballot on career length alone, so I've got to go with Arrojo.
   33. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 10:33 AM (#4174378)
2003 Mike Williams (P)


I will never, ever stop being pissed off at Dusty for picking Williams instead of one of the many Pirates who was actually playing well enough to deserve the honor: Kendall (112 OPS+ as a catcher, including a .399 OBP), Giles (145 OPS+), Reggie Sanders (131 OPS+, including 31 HR), Kip Wells (197 IP with a 133 ERA+), etc. Even Aramis Ramirez (102 OPS+, including 27 HR) would've been somewhat justifiable in a down year for NL 3B.

But no. We get a "closer" with a 6.14 ERA and more walks than strikeouts. Keerist.
   34. Nasty Nate Posted: July 06, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4174396)
The notion of playoffs (or any tournament) is entirely based on the idea that all playoff teams are "equal."


Not at all.
   35. McCoy Posted: July 06, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4174402)
The notion of playoffs (or any tournament) is entirely based on the idea that all playoff teams are "equal."

Man, Lakers vs Bulls would have sucked as a video game if that was true.
   36. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 04:46 PM (#4174887)
#12 - Fun list Guapo, thanks for doing that.

I remember when the Royals acquired Pat Tabler, thinking "wow, we got former All-Star Pat Tabler!!!!"
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4174890)
This is a personal opinion: I would kind of like to see baseball go the other way. Instead of trying to add meaning to the game, it seems to me, it should celebrate the fact that the game doesn’t mean anything. If it does that, it can take some chances. I think the All-Star Game is the perfect time to try all sorts of things that fans might like to see, just once. It should try full-fledged replay. It should try robotic umpiring -- with the umpires wearing special headphones that beep when a pitch is called a strike by the computer. It should play with a juiced ball one year, a dead ball another. It should choose a pile of All-Stars and have the two managers draft them. It should have players wear the old wool uniforms, it should have them use the old gloves, it should make it more interactive -- there are a million things it could do to make the game fun and tie it to history without changing the rules. I think it should try all of them.


I agree with this too, OTOH, hasn't the NHL done this, and doesn't it make their ASG seem really gimmicky?
   38. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: July 06, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4174919)
The ASG is gimmicky, so why not be gimmicky on purpose?
   39. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 06, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4174933)
1986: Gooden, Strawberry, Carter, Hernandez, Fernandez
1987: Strawberry, Carter, Hernandez, Fernandez
1988: Gooden, Strawberry, Carter, Cone
1989: Strawberry, HoJo
1990: Strawberry, Viola, Franco
1991: HoJo, Viola
1992: Cone
1993: Bonilla
1994: Saberhagen

From plenty to ignominy in 8 short years.

I took no joy out of Bonilla. What a bum.
   40. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 06, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4174939)
At least Bonilla and Saberhagen were highly effective baseball players. The 1993-94 Brewers were represented by Greg Vaughn and Ricky Bones.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam S
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - September 2014
(6 - 2:36am, Sep 02)
Last: RollingWave

NewsblogTrevor Hoffman's Hall of Fame induction seems inevitable
(7 - 2:30am, Sep 02)
Last: Infinite Joost (Voxter)

NewsblogPhoto of the day: Bill Murray, indy league ticket-taker
(103 - 2:27am, Sep 02)
Last: Robert in Manhattan Beach

NewsblogNitkowski: Wanted: Major League manager...sort of.
(8 - 2:07am, Sep 02)
Last: Robert in Manhattan Beach

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 9-1-2014
(40 - 2:01am, Sep 02)
Last: MNB

NewsblogAstros Fire Bo Porter
(57 - 1:54am, Sep 02)
Last: base ball chick

NewsblogRobothal: Changed [Manny] Ramirez enjoyed helping Cubs prospects grow
(13 - 1:27am, Sep 02)
Last: The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott)

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1957 Ballot
(10 - 1:12am, Sep 02)
Last: Moeball

NewsblogHBT: Jorge Soler with an extra-base hit in each of his first five games
(2 - 1:02am, Sep 02)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogOT: Politics, September, 2014: ESPN honors Daily Worker sports editor Lester Rodney
(28 - 1:00am, Sep 02)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogRon Roenicke rips into home-plate umpire
(17 - 12:18am, Sep 02)
Last: Bunny Vincennes

NewsblogBlue Jays Acquire Mayberry Jr.
(7 - 12:10am, Sep 02)
Last: Infinite Joost (Voxter)

NewsblogAthletics Acquire Adam Dunn
(43 - 11:46pm, Sep 01)
Last: Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread August, 2014
(986 - 11:25pm, Sep 01)
Last: The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott)

NewsblogOT:  2014 College Football pre-season thread
(101 - 11:17pm, Sep 01)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

Page rendered in 0.5244 seconds
53 querie(s) executed