Great, so the Mets still see him six times a year.

Quite the raise for Mr. Randa.

Well, things could have been worse.

Bucco fan's theme song

Not sure what his defense is like. If he's solid at D (I think his ZR's have been pretty good), he's a nice little player despite some of the crap he takes here.

Spivey:
But what's the point?

The Pirates should be building for the future. How does spending $4 M do that?

I'm personally delighted that Pittsburgh is spinning its wheels. But as an observer this deal strikes me as pointless. And if I were a Bucco fan I would be angry.

Randa was a gold glover just a few years ago but I hear he's slipped quite a bit. Its a good deal, I'm just not sure it really helps Pittsburgh that much. Have they given up on Freddy Sanchez already?

I'm just going to keep mumbling "one year deal" to myself repeatedly.

Have they given up on Freddy Sanchez already?

The Pirates consider Sanchez (with some justification) a utility player only since he has almost no power and can play anything in the infield. He will probably still see 500 PA this year starting against lefties at third base and backing up Jack Wilson and Jose Castillo.

The Pirates should be building for the future. How does spending $4 M do that?

I would tend to agree, but I think casual fans do want to see guys they recognize. Randa is one of those guys, and this shouldn't be any serious financial obstacle. I don't think this should prevent them from signing whoever they want in the amateur draft - the key is to be willing to pay the money for big name guys, and draft better.

The Pirates should be building for the future. How does spending $4 M do that?

If they've exhausted their options and there's $4M left over, there's no problem spending it on a solid ballplayer, which I think Randa is. Better than pocketing the money.

But, like #5 said, if it cocks up the Sanchez situation, that's a whole different deal.

Have they given up on Freddy Sanchez already?

Freddy's fate was sealed when McClatchy told the public that he instructed Littlefield to get two hitters. It's all about the PR value of the move. As Charlie might put it, the Pirates just spent $4 M to upgrade their utility infielder.

Not too long ago, McClatchy actually had Littlefield trade A. Ramirez to the Cubs because he made that kind of money while claiming the team couldn’t afford the youngster with a very high ceiling!

The pirates can always flip randa to a contender in August.

levski: sez funny things, not a comedian Posted: December 28, 2005 at 03:29 PM (#1797310)
The pirates can always flip randa to a contender in August

another point that was missed by some people on this thread. The pirates have done that a lot lately, mind you I don't think they have gotten anything good out of it(I could be wrong) but they have shown a tendency to sign one year guys and trade them when a team needs another player.

they have shown no ability to trade these rental players for anything resembling a quality prospect.

They could have gotten Joe Randa's production by offering Kevin Orie the minor league deal he just signed with the Astros.

i figure the padres will come asking for randa yet again in august. these one year rentals can be very profitable if you know how to trade players in august. even the most craptastic players in december start looking like must-haves once the injury bug has struck, or (worse) once a crappy team (mets) finds itself within a few games of first with a top prospect (kazmir) to burn.

in fact, I've already mailed el duque a mets hat, and milledge is about to receive a one way ticket to arizona with august 31st expiration date. omar is bound to come asking for those three cubans for this crepe rolling business, and el duque will seem mighty shiny, especially compared to the other two (raffy palmeiro and rey sanchez).

another point that was missed by some people on this thread.

Not really missed, just not mentioned because I figured it was kind of obvious. I think they'd likely be better off just keeping him and getting a draft pick than trading him for a weak prospect. Of course, if he can get a good prospect in a trade, of course you go for it.

they have shown no ability to trade these rental players for anything resembling a quality prospect.

Ironically, Freddy Sanchez was the best of the lot. Only the Giles trade, and it should not count as a typical midsummer trade, netted Littlefield and the Pirates more than the Boston trade for Sanchez.

problem with keeping randa for a draft pick is a) offering him arbitration while knowing he might accept it; and b) counting on your draft director to make a wise choice with the pick. even then, that prospect might fail. randa fetched two pitching prospects last year, he might bring back at least one solid prospect in aa or above...

This is a garbage signing by the Pirates. Randa will provide very little Freddie Sanchez will not. To boot, Sanchez is better than Randa defensively. This signing just smacks of desperation on the part of a GM who is neither capable of reading a market nor proactive thinking rather than reactionary thinking. In fact, I would argue that DL's entire tenure has been marked by reactionary type moves. He is simply incapable of forward thinking.

On another unrelated note. Randa is generally considered "one of the good guys" in baseball. As is Sean Casey and Jason Bay. In addition, the Pirates have lost malcontents such as Giles and Kendall in recent years. If there is anything to the whole "Team Chemistry" builds winning nonesense, the 2006 Pirates performance migth make a decent litmus test. See if they exceed their pythag projections. Just htought it was an interesting side note.

Also, I am apparently unable to either finish thoughts or spell today.

Should have added regarding DL, that this move is reactionary in the sense that he failed to sign Mueller (or any free agent for that matter) and failed to pull off a trade for any of the 3b that were available or are potentially on the block. Littlefield misplayed his hand. He knew at the end of last year he needed a thirdbaseman. He did nothing. He then traded his left-handed hitting platoon third baseman (Mackowiak) for a left-handed reliever (which the Pirates already have a suprlus of). Clearly, he was planning on making another move that didn't happen. So, once again Dave "Lamar-Baird" Littlefield is stuck holding the bag having overplayed his hand.

FWIW Randa brought the Reds a nice haul last July.

Yes, much better to sign Bill Mueller (32 vorp last year) for 2/$9.5M than horrible Joe Randa (29 vorp) for 1/$4M.

Littlefield misplayed his hand. He knew at the end of last year he needed a thirdbaseman. He did nothing. He then traded his left-handed hitting platoon third baseman (Mackowiak) for a left-handed reliever (which the Pirates already have a suprlus of). Clearly, he was planning on making another move that didn't happen. So, once again Dave "Lamar-Baird" Littlefield is stuck holding the bag having overplayed his hand.

Yep. And what will he do with all the LH relievers now that he has four good ones?

Yep. And what will he do with all the LH relievers now that he has four good ones?

Jim Tracy does like him some LOOGYs. It doesn't even matter if the LOOGY can actually get left handed batters out.

I agree with #7. Sanchez is a nice utility infielder who should start at third against lefties. Randa will be an upgrade at 3B against righties. So this is a move that will help Pittsurgh be a little better, for $4 mil. It will also improve the bench, as Sanchez is a useful player, but doesn't look to have the offensive skills to start everday at 3B. Sanchez looks like a 2B to me, so it's not Randa blocking him, it's Castillo.

Also, Randa was on his way to his best year ever before he nose-dived in San Diego. Could the move from Great American to Petco have been that severe?

Yes, much better to sign Bill Mueller (32 vorp last year) for 2/$9.5M than horrible Joe Randa (29 vorp) for 1/$4M.

Of course, that was a down year for Mueller, and the Dodgers are at a different place on the "success cycle" than the Pirates. And have a lot more money to burn.

"Could the move from Great American to Petco have been that severe?"

You mean the move from the second-best HR park in the NL to the worst?

The Pirates' offseason moves are primarily about keeping the attendance up throughout the season so that McClatchy/Nutting can sell the team after they get the booty from the 2006 All-Star Game. It's not about making the team any better, mind you - but about presenting a recognizable package to the fans.

-- MWE

As MWE points out, the Pirates have to put asses in the seats, success cycle or not.

Let's face it - blocking Freddy Sanchez doesn't rank up there with the great mistakes in Baseball history.

Giles the malcontent? Doesn't jibe.

what are the odds that randa is a type a, or b compensation next season? If he is type c then they don't get a draft pick if they keep him.

I agree that this signing will help them appeal to fans that want to see actual mlb "names" on their team. Why is that a bad thing? Unless this is preventing them from devoting funds to draft picks, scouting, etc... I don't see how this is anything but a good move for the pirates. They have made their team better and appealed to the fans. Score one for Littlefield.

I suppose there are Pirates fans who remember him from 1997...but is Joe Randa really a name that's going to put butts in the seats? Really? Joe Randa? Outside of the places where he's played, I doubt most casual fans would even recognize his name, or if they did, they'd probably only have some vague recollection of "some guy who used to play for the Royals."

you obviously haven't seen all the kids wearing RANDA jersey's down at the mall.

I agree that this signing will help them appeal to fans that want to see actual mlb "names" on their team. Why is that a bad thing?

It's a bad thing because the Pirates have been doing this every year for about a decade, usually rather than seriously investing in scouting or their farm system (both of which are pretty bad), and often at the expense of younger players who are far cheaper, at least as good or better, and far more likely to help in the future. (They also sometimes trade prospects for these players or dump prospects outright to protect veterans on the roster, which are different but related problems.)

When this go-with-the-veterans strategy works out, as it did in 2003 with Reggie Sanders, Matt Stairs, Kenny Lofton and Jeff Suppan, the Bucs still don't get to .500, and that year they had to dump Aramis Ramirez, supposedly because they couldn't afford him. When it doesn't work out, like it didn't with Pat Meares, Derek Bell, Raul Mondesi, Randall Simon, Jose Mesa, Chris Stynes, it's a disaster. Because these players are on the downsides of their career, the strategy usually fails. And whether it 'succeeds' in the short term or not, it just perpetuates a cycle of losing in which the Pirates never get better because many of the players on the big league team won't be there the next year if they play well.

See, I'm lucky enough to be a fan of a team that, y'know, wins ballgames, so I may not be able to understand. But if was a fan of a team like the Pirates, with no hope for the immediate future, I could conceivably be intrigued by them bringing in a veteran who was, say, a former All-Star, or Gold Glove winner, or thirty home-run hitter, or batting champion--or at least in the top ten one year--or somebody who had done something, anything, to distinguish himself in the course of his baseball career. Reggie Sanders and Kenny Lofton were, at least, guys like that. Joe Randa is definitely not. Seriously, how many extra fans will the Pirates bring in by playing Joe Randa over Freddy Sanchez (or whoever their next option was)? Excluding Joe Randa's immediate family.

Remember that SNL skit from a year or two ago when Christopher Walken's a producer in a recording studio insisting that a song needs more cowbell?

Well Joe Randa's pretty much the cowbell of baseball players. Both are slightly recognizable as well as solid supplement to an otherwise complete and talented ensemble. But try to make either a cornerstone and you've got something pretty clunky and not all that interesting. And only a complete idiot thinks that adding cowbell to the mix will make a significant difference. Dave Littlefield is that idiot; Christopher Walken just played one on TV.

Remember that SNL skit from a year or two ago when Christopher Walken's a producer in a recording studio insisting that a song needs more cowbell?

No. No I don't. I especially don't recall the fact that it's constantly being referenced to here and has it's own wiki entry. Of course not.

"The Pirates' offseason moves are primarily about keeping the attendance up throughout the season so that McClatchy/Nutting can sell the team after they get the booty from the 2006 All-Star Game."

We can only hope.

And whether it 'succeeds' in the short term or not, it just perpetuates a cycle of losing in which the Pirates never get better because many of the players on the big league team won't be there the next year if they play well.

I think that the youth and farm movement is a separate issue than bringing in the veterans. At least, they should be. You can do both. You may be right that for the Pirates, at least, signings such as these impeed their farm system.

I think that the youth and farm movement is a separate issue than bringing in the veterans. At least, they should be. You can do both. You may be right that for the Pirates, at least, signings such as these impeed their farm system.

The problem with the McClatchy Pirates is not just one where the team willingly tradesoff youthful players and prospects for crappy veterans, although the problem immediately takes that form. So, the tradeoff in this in case was not Sanchez or Randa/Mueller/ Garciaparra. The tradeoff was trading Jack Wilson to the Braves for Andy Marte (and making with Mackowiak, Sanchez and Castillo at third, second and short until Marte is ready) instead of opting for the washed up veterans Littlefield pursued this winter. A team building to compete for a championship trades Jack Wilson for Andy Marte. A talent deficient team driving to win 75 games in order to maximize its profits relative to its costs and risks signs a Mueller or Randa.

Remember that SNL skit from a year or two ago when Christopher Walken's a producer in a recording studio insisting that a song needs more cowbell?

Hey, David Littlefield puts his pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. The only difference is he goes on an fields sub-.500 baseball teams!