Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, December 02, 2012

Pouliot: Steroids or no, Sammy Sosa doesn’t belong in Hall of Fame

But what about this Appling-esque achievement???

If I had a Hall of Fame ballot — and don’t worry, I do not — I’d put down nine names on it this year: Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Curt Schilling and Alan Trammell.

Yes, there are some cheaters on that list: three definites and at least a couple of maybes. I am willing to penalize for steroids. But I can’t see leaving Bonds, Clemens and McGwire out of the Hall. For better and for worse, they’re part of the history of the game.

Rafael Palmeiro, on the other hand, is close enough to the borderline that I don’t mind leaving him off the list… And then there’s Sammy Sosa. He’s not in the same boat as Palmeiro because he was a true superstar. From 1998-2002, Sosa hit .306/.397/.649 with 292 homers… But that five-year run supplies the vast majority of Sosa’s case. The problem with Sosa is that he just wasn’t that valuable over the course of the rest of his six 30-homer seasons…

Look at where Sosa ranks on the career lists… HR: 8th… RBI: 27th… SLG: 44th… OPS: 100th… OPS+: 190th…

Compare that with McGwire. He’s two spots below Sosa on the home run list and just 68th in RBI, but he’s eighth in slugging, 10th in OPS and 13th in OPS+. McGwire was one of the greatest hitters of all-time. Sosa certainly had a great run, but he was also a product of his time. If he came up in 1979 or 1999, rather than 1989, his numbers wouldn’t be nearly as impressive.

The District Attorney Posted: December 02, 2012 at 02:33 PM | 50 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, hall of fame, orioles, ped, rangers, sammy sosa, white sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 02, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4314711)
From 1998-2002, Sosa hit .306/.397/.649 with 292 homers… But that five-year run supplies the vast majority of Sosa’s case.

From 1978-1978, Rice hit .315/.370/.600 with 46 homers… But that one-year run supplies the vast majority of Rice’s case.
   2. lonestarball Posted: December 02, 2012 at 07:25 PM (#4314734)
I don't think Matt Pouliot ever advocated electing Jim Rice.
   3. BDC Posted: December 02, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4314735)
Wow, that's my ballot exactly: except I'd have ten names, and Sosa is the tenth.

Comps for Sosa, OF centered on him in terms of PAs and OPS+, with speed indicators, ranked by WAR Fielding Runs:

Player             Rfield    PA OPS+  3B  SB      Pos
Roberto Clemente      204 10211  130 166  83  
*9/8745
Fred Clarke            91  9838  133 220 509  
*7/6985
Sammy Sosa             85  9896  128  45 234   
*98D/7
Al Simmons             67  9518  133 149  88   
*78/93
Zack Wheat             54  9996  129 172 205    
*7/89
Goose Goslin           50  9829  128 173 176  
*79/835
Willie Keeler          30  9553  127 145 490 
*9/54786
Tony Gwynn              5 10232  132  85 319   
*98/7D
Bobby Abreu             2  9926  129  59 399   
*9D7/8
Tim Raines             
-7 10359  123 113 808  *78D/49
Chili Davis           
-15  9997  121  30 142  D897/13
Dave Parker           
-19 10184  121  75 154 *9D/7834
Al Oliver             
-40  9778  121  77  84   837D/


Those are career numbers, of course, taking no account of the shape of the career in any case. They mark an interesting descent when arranged that way: every eligible above Abreu is in the HOF, and everyone below is out. (It's interesting to me in these lists how often the Hall voters have a working sense of defensive value among hitters of a rank.)

Well, Raines should be in and Abreu probably shouldn't be, but that's at a level well below Sosa. It is really hard to tell Sosa's career achievement from that of Wheat or Goslin, your basic garden-variety HOF/HOM players. I can't imagine the HOM leaving Sosa out, though he may wait awhile in their backlog.

I think that the logic of TFA, as exposed by Pat Rapper in #1, reveals something interesting about Sosa's case (absent steroid suspicions, of course). Sosa has a decent career case for the Hall, but … but he's a peak candidate! Too much of his value is packed into those five years! Now wait a minute, you try to say, if he was good enough in just those five years to become a decent career candidate, mightn't that be an even better argument for him as a peak candidate? The numbers (as Bill James once observed of some slugging minor-leaguer who couldn't get a callup) are too good. Not just that they invite suspicion of PEDs, but even at face value: anyone who goes around hitting 60 home runs regularly, there must be something invalid there. We can't have that in the Hall of Fame :)
   4. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 02, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4314737)
Sosa has a decent career case for the Hall, but … but he's a peak candidate! Too much of his value is packed into those five years!

The first comment I was trying to come up with went something like, "The rest of his peak wasn't as good as the prime of his peak, ergo he doesn't belong." Take out anyone's best five years and -- surprise, surprise, surprise -- they don't like as good of a HoF candidate.
   5. McCoy Posted: December 02, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4314740)
From 1998-2002, Sosa hit .306/.397/.649 with 292 homers… But that five-year run supplies the vast majority of Sosa’s case.

I always hate this argument against Sammy. Most Hof'ers don't have "hall of fame" seasons every single year of their career.

Sosa was very good from 1994 to 1996 as well. All-Star caliber hidden by the work stoppages and a freak injury.

People think Frank Thomas is a HoF'er and you can make the argument that 1991 to 1997 supplies the vast majority of his case as well. Does adding one more season make one a HoF'er?
   6. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4314757)
Sosa is a know abuser of PEDS (pigment enhancing drugs).
   7. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4314758)
more like LOPEDs (lack-of-pigment enhancing drugs)
   8. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: December 02, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4314764)
Sammy are you ok? Are you ok, Sammy?
   9. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 09:01 PM (#4314765)
Look at where Sosa ranks on the career lists… HR: 8th…


I just thought this was funny because it's supposed to be a point against him. Or something.

The bottom line, for me, is that Sosa was an established player who _then_ went on a great five-year peak. And if there is such a thing as a peak argument, it has to be Sosa.
   10. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4314766)
Also:

Rafael Palmeiro, on the other hand, is close enough to the borderline that I don’t mind leaving him off the list…


No. In no universe is Rafael Palmeiro borderline.
   11. The District Attorney Posted: December 02, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4314775)
If you don't like the phrasing of saying that Sosa didn't do much outside of his peak, then read it as saying that his peak wasn't good enough given the rest of his career. It's the same thing.

I do think that, if you just told me there's a hitting-only candidate who is 190th all-time in OPS+, that would sound to me like a marginal candidate. I think that's tough to argue with. Now if you think that's unfair because Sosa's candidacy isn't really about what he did when he was 20 or 38, and you want to argue that his peak is one of the truly all-time greatest peaks in history, then produce a peak list. I'd genuinely like to see it. I suspect that Sosa isn't going to particularly stand out on it.
   12. Walt Davis Posted: December 02, 2012 at 09:40 PM (#4314779)
Word to the Sosa posts

I don't necessarily have a problem with a ballot that doesn't have Sosa. I do have a problem with a ballot that doesn't have Sosa and doesn't list 10 names. Sosa is, amazingly, only 14th on the ballot in WAR. Of course nobody is going to vote for Lofton so that makes him 13th. Walker, Edgar, Palmeiro, or maybe McGriff deserve the #10 spot on this guy's ballot.

Yes, there are some cheaters on that list: three definites and at least a couple of maybes. I am willing to penalize for steroids. But I can’t see leaving Bonds, Clemens and McGwire out of the Hall.

Did nobody pay attention to the Clemens trial? There is no reliable evidence that Clemens used. Do you really think all those millions of dollars the Feds spent wouldn't have turned up every credible shred? And they still had to go to trial with nothing but McNamee and Pettitte v5 and none of Clemens' "peers" believed them.

If you want to say that for some crazy reason you believe McNamee ... well, that's your prerogative. But you can't claim that as "definite."

   13. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: December 02, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4314789)
The standard at proof in Clemens' trial was "beyond a reasonable doubt." That he wasn't convicted doesn't say there is "no reliable evidence."
   14. Davo Dozier Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4314794)
From 1996 to 2003, Sammy Sosa hit 403 home runs...or, over an 8 year span, he averaged over 50 homers a year.

Is there any other player in history who's done that?
   15. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4314799)
The problem is Sammy was actually a pretty complete player. A good fielder and baserunner, and also an excellent hitter. The odd thing was he was never really both players at the same time.
   16. Danny Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4314801)
Walker was a better hitter, fielder, and baserunner than Sosa. Sosa had more playing time, and their peaks are comparable--Sosa's is a bit better if one insists on using consecutive years.

I'd have Pouliot's ballot with Walker at #10.
   17. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:14 PM (#4314804)
If I had a Hall of Fame ballot — and don’t worry, I do not — I’d put down nine names on it this year: Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Curt Schilling and Alan Trammell.


Too bad.
   18. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4314807)
Walker, Edgar, Palmeiro, or maybe McGriff deserve the #10 spot on this guy's ballot.

I agree with Ray and Walt here. You need to list the 10th man and needs to be Palmeiro. Outside of that though, a great ballot.
   19. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4314818)
From 1996 to 2003, Sammy Sosa hit 403 home runs...or, over an 8 year span, he averaged over 50 homers a year.

Is there any other player in history who's done that?


Not even close. But it's partly a fluke. Those 8 years were Sosa's best 8 years. No other possible candidate had their best 8 years in a row. Ruth is second at 373, but his best 8 year run includes a 25 HR season and leaves out 2 50+ seasons. Ruth's best 8 non-consecutive, is 415. Mac's best 8 in a row is 344 and includes 2 9s, while leaving out a 49 and 39. With those he's at 414
   20. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 02, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4314826)
Is there any other player in history who's done that?


Maybe not, but that Ruth fella did average 47 HR a year from 1920 to 1931. Adjusting for 162 game seasons bumps that up to 49.
   21. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 02, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4314846)
The standard at proof in Clemens' trial was "beyond a reasonable doubt." That he wasn't convicted doesn't say there is "no reliable evidence."


True; but the fact that there was no reliable evidence says that there was no reliable evidence.

Seriously - the evidence was tied to McNamee, who is not credible.
   22. Dale Sams Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:08 AM (#4314893)
Didn't Clemens throw his wife under the bus and say that steroid evidence tied to him was in fact hers?
   23. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:12 AM (#4314898)
Didn't Clemens throw his wife under the bus and say that steroid evidence tied to him was in fact hers?


No.
   24. smileyy Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:37 AM (#4314919)
[20] That certainly seals the case against Sosa :D
   25. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:59 AM (#4314930)
Didn't Clemens throw his wife under the bus and say that steroid evidence tied to him was in fact hers?







Yes.
   26. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 01:50 AM (#4314949)
No.

Everyone agreed - including McNamee - that McNamee gave a shot to Debbie.

And nobody said that the HGH Debbie got was Debbie's.
   27. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:10 AM (#4314955)
Of course nobody is going to vote for Lofton so that makes him 13th.

This may be true, but I would vote for him over Sosa, Biggio and Palmeiro if I were able to vote.
   28. The District Attorney Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:25 AM (#4314965)
Lofton over Biggio? Yipes.
   29. JC Posted: December 03, 2012 at 03:21 AM (#4314981)
No.

Everyone agreed - including McNamee - that McNamee gave a shot to Debbie.

And nobody said that the HGH Debbie got was Debbie's.


Wait, so Clemens wife was using HGH, but Roger wasn't?

In fact, not only was he not using it, but he didn't know his wife was being injected with HGH by his trainer?

Sure.
   30. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: December 03, 2012 at 08:58 AM (#4315014)
Sounds like no evidence to me!
   31. LargeBill Posted: December 03, 2012 at 09:48 AM (#4315036)
In some ways this article goes back to some of the arguments that have played out in the past over 300+ wins (Sutton, etc), 3,000+ hits (Brock), and to a lesser extent 500 homers. While I strongly oppose an automatic election based on an arbitrary milestone, I also don't think players should be so quickly dismissed as a numbers compiler as though compiling good numbers is a bad thing. No, not every 500 home run hitter is the same thing and they are not all inner circle HoF'rs, but they all did a good thing (homer) a whole lot of times. It is very helpful to a team to have a guy ready to play darn near every day and putting up good stats consistently. Koufax gave us an incredibly peak stretch, but no career length to speak of and of course no decline phase. He obviously is a fine HoF choice, but the HoF should also have room for the Don Sutton's who take the ball every 5 days for 20 years and consistently well above average. Likewise, I have a really difficult time casting aside Sosa and Palmeiro, etc with a dismissive comment that they were just compilers. At some point we have to accept there is significant value in compiling good stats.
   32. BDC Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:05 AM (#4315051)
Walt and others here make good points, in that Sosa isn't particularly high on this year's maxed-out ballot. I tend to favor peak over career, so would put Sosa over Palmeiro, but I see the counterarguments as well. And Walker has a peak case as well, as a better all-round player at his best than Sosa. There's scope for debate at the margins; there's little scope for leaving Sosa out of a Hall with the standards and size of the current one.
   33. BDC Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:08 AM (#4315055)
none of Clemens' "peers" believed them

I have this vision of the Clemens jury: Koufax, Gibson, Perry, Niekro, Sutton, Palmer, Carlton, Ryan, Maddux, Pedro, and the Unit. Next up at voir dire is Jack Morris, and Clemens's lawyer is arguing that Morris couldn't even carry Roger's ####ing jockstrap.
   34. JJ1986 Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4315060)
Wait, so Clemens wife was using HGH, but Roger wasn't?


Why is this implausible?
   35. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4315076)
Wait, so Clemens wife was using HGH, but Roger wasn't?


According to Clemens, yes. And only a fool or a biased observer would find the serial liar Brian McNamee more credible than Clemens.

In fact, not only was he not using it, but he didn't know his wife was being injected with HGH by his trainer?

Sure.


Um, no. Clemens learned of the injection soon after. Again, according to the only credible evidence we have.
   36. Dale Sams Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4315098)
Why is this implausible?


Why is it implausible that (fill in every bit of circumstancial evidence against Clemens...bearing in mind that circumstansial evidence is quite often admissable)? It's unpossible!

Seriously...people who try and lump Clemens in with Say,... Wade Boggs...are the same ones who will tell you OJ was innocent. *

*Let's just skip by the "actually" and "technically" follow-ups on OJ.

**And finally..is Pettite a serial liar too? (This is for Ray.)
   37. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4315141)
Why is it implausible that (fill in every bit of circumstancial evidence against Clemens...bearing in mind that circumstansial evidence is quite often admissable)? It's unpossible!


I'm having trouble parsing this, but I always consider both circumstantial and direct evidence. Contrary to what you see on tv and in the movies ("Oh, the evidence against him is merely circumstantial"), circumstantial evidence is often quite strong.

What's your point, though?

Seriously...people who try and lump Clemens in with Say,... Wade Boggs...are the same ones who will tell you OJ was innocent. *

*Let's just skip by the "actually" and "technically" follow-ups on OJ.


I have no idea what this means either.

**And finally..is Pettite a serial liar too? (This is for Ray.)


1. Pettitte is a multiple liar, yes. And a self-confessed one at that. He told multiple lies, most notably his insistence right after the Mitchell Report that he only took HGH on two occasions in 2002. Later he admitted under oath that that was a lie, and that he had taken it in 2004 also. Seriously - what would you call Pettitte, if not a liar? Even he admits he lied. So what is your argument that he isn't a liar?

2. Even so, the fact that he's a liar is irrelevant, because one does not need to call him a liar to believe Clemens - certainly Clemens didn't need to, and, in fact, didn't. Pettitte always left open the possibility that he misunderstood Clemens in the 1999/2000 conversation, both in his 2008 deposition and during Clemens's trial. In fact, after speaking with Clemens circa 2005 during one conversation they had in the clubhouse where Clemens said he never told Pettitte he used HGH, Pettitte accepted that he had misunderstood Clemens. ("I took it for that, you know, that I had misunderstood him.") He didn't _think_ he had, but he accepted that he may have.
   38. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4315147)
In fact, after speaking with Clemens circa 2005 during one conversation they had in the clubhouse where Clemens said he never told Pettitte he used HGH, Pettitte accepted that he had misunderstood Clemens. ("I took it for that, you know, that I had misunderstood him.") He didn't _think_ he had, but he accepted that he may have.

That's how normal people "compromise" with loony ones saying loony things.(*) It was the equivalent of "roll eyes, whatever." Since that typical human response doesn't translate well to the literal world of depositions and the courtroom, it didn't translate well to the literal world of depositions and the courtroom and the Clemens fanboys have taken that mistranslation and further mistranslated it.

I'd still vote for Clemens for the HOF.

(*) "No, Andy. I didn't tell you I'd used HGH, I told you my wife had used HGH." Sure thing, Rog.
   39. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 11:57 AM (#4315159)
SBB, Pettitte could easily have said "No, there is no way I misunderstood him."

But unfortunately for your argument, he didn't.

Once you are spinning evidence that is favorable to Clemens against him, it means that you're basically just making all inferences against Clemens, and you've lost all objectivity. In which case I don't see what value your contributions are, at this point.
   40. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4315183)
Once you are spinning evidence that is favorable to Clemens against him, it means that you're basically just making all inferences against Clemens, and you've lost all objectivity. In which case I don't see what value your contributions are, at this point.

Sure thing.

Best case scenario is that there was a 50% chance, according to Pettitte, that Clemens told him he'd used HGH. The odds are really higher than that, given whose account rings true and whose doesn't, but whatever.
   41. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4315194)
Best case scenario is that there was a 50% chance, according to Pettitte, that Clemens told him he'd used HGH.


Did I say something that contradicted this? I agree with it.
   42. Dale Sams Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4315344)
**And finally..is Pettite a serial liar too? (This is for Ray.)

1. Pettitte is a multiple liar, yes


Well i certainly set myself up for that.
   43. Walt Davis Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4315356)
Point is:

Even if you believe McNamee and only the Pettitte bits that go against Clemens -- despite their multiple changing stories -- there is no way you can claim that as "definite." In fact, as posters in this thread show, you have to make rather large assumptions and take testimony not at face value to come to even a preponderance of the evidence.

Again, the article named Clemens a "definite" PED user. That requires more than the "where there's smoke there's usually fire" level of evidence especially when the people telling you they saw smoke changed their stories multiple times.
   44. DL from MN Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4315369)
Back to Sosa when you adjust for offensive context I find him remarkably similar to Norm Cash. Both guys with huge offensive peaks, decent careers and better defense than you would expect.
   45. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4315388)
Back to Sosa when you adjust for offensive context I find him remarkably similar to Norm Cash. Both guys with huge offensive peaks, decent careers and better defense than you would expect.


You reach all the way back to Norm Cash to find a comp for Sammy Sosa and don't mention the shared interest in bat-corking? For shame, sir.
   46. alilisd Posted: December 03, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4315404)
No. In no universe is Rafael Palmeiro borderline.


What about the universe where you have to be among the very best players in the game for an extended period of time to be more than a borderling candidate (Palmeiro's best WAR performances, just within his league, for position players only, were 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th) and people are actually penalized for testing positive for AAS and you're a Peak, not a Career, voter?
   47. Rusty Priske Posted: December 03, 2012 at 04:12 PM (#4315557)
It is a pretty good ballot... go away and leave Sosa off, and Schilling and Piazza.

Add Palmeiro, Walker and Martinez.

This is one of the few years where I wish they would allow for voting for mroe than ten.
   48. AJMcCringleberry Posted: December 03, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4315786)
That's a nice ballot, I'd vote for all of them plus 4 or 5 more.

Even if you believe McNamee and only the Pettitte bits that go against Clemens -- despite their multiple changing stories -- there is no way you can claim that as "definite." In fact, as posters in this thread show, you have to make rather large assumptions and take testimony not at face value to come to even a preponderance of the evidence.

We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence.
   49. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: December 03, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4315883)
Next up at voir dire is Jack Morris, and Clemens's lawyer is arguing that Morris couldn't even carry Roger's ####ing jockstrap.

Jack Morris couldn't even carry a printout of the scan of the picture of the map of the city that contains the building which houses the schematics of the building which contains the locker room which has the locker which stores the key to the safe that secures the GPS that contains the directions to drive to the house of the person with the drawer that contains the jockstrap of Roger Clemens.
   50. The District Attorney Posted: December 03, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4315893)
go away and leave Sosa off, and Schilling and Piazza.

Add Palmeiro, Walker and Martinez.
Those guys over Piazza? Yipes.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogBA Report: MLBPA Files Grievance Against Astros Over Aiken, Nix, Marshall
(12 - 8:56am, Jul 26)
Last: RMc's desperate, often sordid world

NewsblogWisch: Cooperstown Shouldn’t Close Out Lee Smith
(24 - 8:55am, Jul 26)
Last: Mike Emeigh

NewsblogGiants purchase contract of 2B Uggla
(1 - 8:51am, Jul 26)
Last: Bhaakon

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-25-2014
(9 - 8:37am, Jul 26)
Last: Mike Emeigh

NewsblogSurprising Sports Stars – Guided by Voices’ Robert Pollard
(17 - 8:32am, Jul 26)
Last: Non-Youkilidian Geometry

Newsblog5 for Friday: Leo Mazzone, pitching coach to the HOFers
(30 - 8:28am, Jul 26)
Last: McCoy

Newsblog7-25-14 OMNICHATTER
(58 - 8:22am, Jul 26)
Last: boteman is not here 'til October

NewsblogESPN : GM Offers To Get Prostate Exam During Game
(18 - 6:20am, Jul 26)
Last: Joe Bivens, Minor Genius

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(3205 - 2:40am, Jul 26)
Last: robinred

NewsblogRe/code: Major League Baseball Cries Foul on Net Neutrality Proposal
(7 - 2:17am, Jul 26)
Last: Bhaakon

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(944 - 2:14am, Jul 26)
Last: RollingWave

NewsblogHurdles remain in Mets-Rockies deal for Tulowitzki, Gonzalez
(34 - 1:04am, Jul 26)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(414 - 8:38pm, Jul 25)
Last: J. Sosa

NewsblogThe Inventor of the High Five
(30 - 8:32pm, Jul 25)
Last: Willie Mayspedes

NewsblogSoE: AN IDIOT IN EXILE
(4 - 8:24pm, Jul 25)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

Page rendered in 0.5996 seconds
52 querie(s) executed