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Wednesday, October 17, 2012

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-17-2012

New York Evening World, October 17, 1912:

The National League magnates after three hours of heated deliberations in executive session at the Waldorf-Astoria this afternoon to decide the fate of Horace Fogel, the Philadelphia club owner, for making a statement that baseball was crooked and that the National League race was fixed to let the Giants win the pennant adjourned in order to allow Mr. Fogel five days to present his case in writing.
...
The magnates went into executive session shortly before 3 o’clock, and for two hours raised voices could be heard outside the door, but not a statement was forthcoming.

They did eventually ban Fogel for life, but the family was redeemed nearly a century later when his great-grandson Jared became a spokesperson for Subway*.

* - this is not true.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 05:57 AM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, horace fogel

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 06:00 AM (#4273736)
A Hall of Fame catcher and a bunch of cromulent bats on today's Birthday Team. Relief ace is perhaps the least likable MLB player of my lifetime.

C/Manager: Buck Ewing
1B: John F. Mabry
2B: Junior Gilliam
3B: Red Rolfe
SS: Dan Stearns
LF: Dan Pasqua
CF: Carlos Gonzalez
RF: Glenn Braggs

SP: Paul Derringer
SP: Johnny Klippstein
SP: Ernie Wingard
SP: Ken Dixon
SP: Rich Folkers
RP: John Rocker

Writer: Dick Young
General Manager: Parke Carroll
Human Batting Tee: Setherton
   2. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: October 17, 2012 at 06:58 AM (#4273738)
SP: Paul Derringer

Derringer is a useful pitcher in Jack Morris arguments - he led the majors in wins over a couple of 10-year spans (I think '34-'43 and another one close to that), and has a pretty impressive Game 7 of his own.
   3. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 17, 2012 at 07:35 AM (#4273743)
Why can't I submit news items anymore? I've tried a couple ot times recently, and always get an error page stating I haven't provided a tag in the appropriate field (when in fact I have).
   4. Jose is El Absurd Pollo Posted: October 17, 2012 at 07:42 AM (#4273746)
Do you hit return after typing in the Primary Tag? I've run into that issue a couple of times.
   5. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 17, 2012 at 08:48 AM (#4273760)
Didn't work..... this is the article I was trying to post, maybe someone else will have better luck posting it. It'd certainly make for lively discussion.

Trump would fire A-Rod
   6. Jose is El Absurd Pollo Posted: October 17, 2012 at 08:59 AM (#4273767)
I submitted it and got a message that said it was submitted successfully but then when I clicked to get back to the main BTF page I got a message that the URL had bad characters in it (I don't think that was a reference to Trump and Rodriguez). We'll see I guess. Did you use a Secondary Tag as well?
   7. CheersUnusualPlays Posted: October 17, 2012 at 09:17 AM (#4273778)
Dan Pasqua was my DH in my 1986 APBA league
   8. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 09:23 AM (#4273783)
Pasqua looks like a guy whose career would have been significantly better if he just never, ever faced a lefty. As it was, he didn't face them often, he could not hit a lefty a #######.
   9. Rants Mulliniks Posted: October 17, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4273786)
Did you use a Secondary Tag as well?


Nope, I'm tired of it now!
   10. AndrewJ Posted: October 17, 2012 at 10:05 AM (#4273814)
Derringer is a useful pitcher in Jack Morris arguments - he led the majors in wins over a couple of 10-year spans (I think '34-'43 and another one close to that), and has a pretty impressive Game 7 of his own.

Derringer was 11th in MVP voting in 1936 and in the top 10 from 1938-40, and was the winningest pitcher during the FDR administration (1933-44). But like Rube Marquard and Vida Blue, Paul had a couple of gruesome seasons mixed in with the high-quality ones.
   11. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 17, 2012 at 10:26 AM (#4273835)
The writer isn't exactly a popular fellow, either.

Derringer is a useful pitcher in Jack Morris arguments


Out of context, yes. The difference here is that when the Reds were actually good, Derringer wasn't considered the ace; Bucky Walters was.

-- MWE
   12. SOLockwood Posted: October 17, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4273842)
What with the recent NHL offer of a 50-50 split of revenue, what is the % of MLB revenue that goes to the players?
   13. just plain joe Posted: October 17, 2012 at 10:38 AM (#4273858)
What with the recent NHL offer of a 50-50 split of revenue, what is the % of MLB revenue that goes to the players?


It is about the same; I remember reading that MLB players are getting 52-53% of revenue, but I cannot find the article now.
   14. natebracy Posted: October 17, 2012 at 10:47 AM (#4273875)
was the winningest pitcher during the FDR administration (1933-44)


Has this been determined for all applicable presidents? Maybe Chief Justices' tenures would span longer periods for better HOF criteria.
   15. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4273887)
I'm not voting for Larry Corcoran just because he was the winningest pitcher during the Garfield administration. I'm voting for him because of the no-hitters.
   16. SOLockwood Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4273909)
Al Spalding, winningest pitcher of the Grant Administration.
   17. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4273926)
I stumbled across a random bit of trivia:

There are 72 players in MLB history with 3000+ PAs and at least twice as many walks as they have strikeouts. Only one of these played after 1970, and he in fact debuted after 1970 and played through the 1980s. He played for three teams in his career, all in the NL. Who was he?
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4273940)
Did you use a Secondary Tag as well?


What about Tag Romney?


There are 72 players in MLB history with 3000+ PAs and at least twice as many walks as they have strikeouts. Only one of these played after 1970, and he in fact debuted after 1970 and played through the 1980s. He played for three teams in his career, all in the NL. Who was he?


My first guess is Tony Gwynn but I'm guessing its someone more obscure than that. EDIT: Oh yea, and Gwynn only played for one team.
   19. JJ1986 Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4273952)
My guess was Bill Doran, which was wrong on both counts, though he did play for exactly three teams.
   20. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4273953)
There are 72 players in MLB history with 3000+ PAs and at least twice as many walks as they have strikeouts. Only one of these played after 1970, and he in fact debuted after 1970 and played through the 1980s. He played for three teams in his career, all in the NL.


I was going to say Boggs, until you got to the last word there. Boggs is very close: 1412 walks to 745 Ks, for a 1.9 to 1 ratio.
   21. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4273956)
OK, I got it, the first guy I checked after realizing that neither Boggs not Joe Morgan fit the paramters. Here's a hint: He's best known as a pinch-hitter.
   22. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4273959)
Interesting. Everyone I can think of who is best known as a pinch-hitter has played for way more than three teams.
   23. Sweatpants Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4273960)
Greg Gross?
   24. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 17, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4273962)
There are 72 players in MLB history with 3000+ PAs and at least twice as many walks as they have strikeouts. Only one of these played after 1970, and he in fact debuted after 1970 and played through the 1980s. He played for three teams in his career, all in the NL. Who was he?


He was Greg Gross. Not only is he the only player with 3000+ PAs in this category who played after 1970, he's the only one with as many as 100 PA who qualifies for this category. The next one down the list is Mike Maksudian with 56.

-- MWE
   25. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4273975)
Another thing I noted: Of the top 15 players in the list of players with greater than 2/1 BB/K when sorted by career PA, 13 are in the Hall of Fame.

-- MWE
   26. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: October 17, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4273977)
Yeah, Gross. Gross' 1974 is also the only season since 1922 with at least 20 times caught stealing and a success rate under 40%. Interesting player.

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