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Tuesday, October 17, 2017

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-17-2017

Harrisburg Telegraph, October 17, 1917:

The Chicago White Sox, winners of the 1917 world series, defeated the New York Giants in an exhibition game yesterday, 6 to 4, before 6,000 soldiers from Camp Mills, at Mineola. The soldiers were members of the 165th United States Infantry, most of them New Yorkers, and of the 149th Artillery, composed of men from Illinois.

The Sox finished off the Giants in six before the two teams played this exhibition for American soldiers.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:48 AM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 10:51 AM (#5555674)
Sorry about the lack of Dugout yesterday. Real life gets in the way occasionally.

Today's Birthday Team is decent enough, as long as the GM doesn't send all its best players to the Yankees in exchange for a bag of magic beans.

C/Manager: Buck Ewing (47.61 WAR)
1B: Pop Dillon (0.93 WAR)
2B: Jim Gilliam (40.73 WAR)
3B: Red Rolfe (23.49 WAR)
SS: Dan Stearns (1.39 WAR)
LF: Dan Pasqua (10.79 WAR)
CF: Carlos Gonzalez (24.0 WAR)
RF: Glenn Braggs (5.75 WAR)

SP: Paul Derringer (37.04 WAR)
SP: Johnny Klippstein (10.73 WAR)
SP: Ernie Wingard (7.07 WAR)
SP: Ken Dixon (2.22 WAR)
SP: Rich Folkers (1.8 WAR)
RP: John Rocker (3.67 WAR)

General Manager: Parke Carroll
BBTF legend: John F. Mabry (-2.19 WAR)
   2. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5555692)
Since the game was in Garden City, it was probably played on a polo field...as opposed to the Polo Grounds...where polo was not played...

OH! Irony!
   3. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5555875)
Another exhibition game, this one on 4/15/28 in St. Louis, featured in a 21 April 1928 Chicago Defender report. The St. Louis Stars beat the Laclede-Christy team 1-0. One of the Stars' pitchers, Turner, started the game and threw three scoreless innings. Turner has a B-Ref page that suggests that he also played for St. Louis in 1923, but the Defender says that the 1928 Turner was only 20 years old. He was from Muskogee, Oklahoma.

It was an interracial game, played at the Stars' home field. Laclede-Christy was a major producer of ceramics for various utility and industrial uses. The story does not mention the Laclede-Christy players' race, but I'm going to go out on a limb and infer from the box score that their lineup (Remple, Hauk, Hauk, Fay, Gantz, Reiser, Schubert, Godejohn, Hasmer, and Jackovich) was a Euro-American bunch. Pitchers Hasmer and Jackovich did very well. Hasmer allowed just three hits in his four innings, despite being the losing pitcher. In the first, Willie Wells doubled and scored on a "looping" single by Mule Suttles. In the second, James Bell hit a single. Just three hits, by three Hall of Famers – not a bad outing for a semi-pro factory pitcher.
   4. esseff Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5555943)
BDC, cool photo and story on the park where that game was played.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 17, 2017 at 02:45 PM (#5556026)
Today's Birthday Team is decent enough, as long as the GM doesn't send all its best players to the Yankees in exchange for a bag of magic beans.

I believe I've seen an analysis that the KC A's actually won that series of trades with the Yankees. The Yankees got the bigger names, and the immediate help, but the A's added a ton of long term value.
   6. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:16 PM (#5556076)
I believe I've seen an analysis that the KC A's actually won that series of trades with the Yankees. The Yankees got the bigger names, and the immediate help, but the A's added a ton of long term value.


OK.

Maris.

the Yankees got 26.3 WAR from Maris. The A's got 11 from Norm Siebern. All the other players had negligible or negative value. The A's traded Siebern for Jim Gentile, who gave them 2 WAR.

Yankees 26.3, A's 13

Bob Cerv.

Went both ways. The A's originally purchased him from the Yanlkees, and he gave them 8.0 WAR. The Yankees got him back, and 1.3 WAR from Crev, and then lost him in the expansion draft. the A's got Andy carey who gave them .7.

Yankees 27.6, A's 21.7

Hector Lopez and Ralph Terry.

The Yankees got 3.3 from Lopez, and 9.7 from Terry. The A's got 9 from Jerry Lumpe, and negligible or negative value from the others. Terry also went from the Yankees to the A's prior to the trade with Lopez. The A's got 2.3 WAR from Terry, 2.7 from Woody Held, and negligible or negative value from the others. the Yankees got 5.4 WAR from Ryne Duren, and negligible or negative value from the others.

Yankees 46, A's 35.7

Clete Boyer

The Yankees got 19.6 WAR from Boyer. Of the other players in the trade, they got 6.2 WAR from Bobby Shantz. The other players were immaterial. The A's got negative value from all but one player they got, and only 0.8 from him. I'll be generous and call it 0.

Yankees 71.8, A's 35.7

I'm sure there were more trades, but those are the ones I can remember OTTOMH. Maybe the A's made up that 36 WAR deficit, but I don't see how.

   7. BDC Posted: October 17, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5556078)
Thanks very much for that link in #4, esseff. Yes, I agree, a wonderful photograph and story of its discovery.
   8. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: October 17, 2017 at 06:23 PM (#5556280)
I believe I've seen an analysis that the KC A's actually won that series of trades with the Yankees.

If they had, they'd still be in Kansas City, yes?
   9. KJOK Posted: October 17, 2017 at 11:47 PM (#5556701)
Turner has a B-Ref page that suggests that he also played for St. Louis in 1923, but the Defender says that the 1928 Turner was only 20 years old. He was from Muskogee, Oklahoma.

This is Clem Turner, who was 21 or 22. Tuck Turner was the 1923 pitcher.

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