Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, November 26, 2013

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-26-2013

Milwaukee Sentinel, November 26, 1913:

It was officially announced by the board of directors of the Cincinnati baseball club late on Tuesday that Joe Tinker, manager of the team last season, would not manage it during the season of 1914. Inability to come to terms with Tinker is given as the reason for reaching this conclusion.
...
[From the Reds’ official statement:] The question involved did not pertain to salary. Mr. Tinker seemed to believe that he was entitled, if he again assumed the position of player manager of the reds [sic], to usurp all the authority vested by the stockholders in the executive officers and the board of directors of the company. Under these circumstances the directors decided not to re-engage Tinker as manager of the team for next year.

That’s the slightly more polite way to say “He’s a colossal pain in the butt and we no longer feel like dealing with his crap.”

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: November 26, 2013 at 07:18 AM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, joe tinker, reds

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: November 26, 2013 at 07:22 AM (#4606082)
Also in the newspaper 100 years ago today, from the Pittsburgh Gazette Times:
"Harmless" Drugs Kill Taster.

That he had drunk a mixture of photographic chemicals on a dare to show that they would do him no injury, was the finding of the coroner's jury at Mattoon [Illinois] today in the case of Orla Cutright, a photographer, who died suddenly of convulsions.
"It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead."
   2. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: November 26, 2013 at 07:23 AM (#4606083)
A ridiculously deep pitching staff on today's Birthday Team. Bob Walk was an All-Star who won 105 career games, but he's not good enough to make the rotation.

If you're feeling adventurous, you could play Jorge Orta at second base and bench Reynolds, but...man, Orta was a horrible second baseman.

C: Brian Schneider
1B: Fred Tenney
2B: Harold Reynolds
3B: Richie Hebner
SS: Eddie Miller
LF: Bob Johnson
CF: Hugh Duffy
RF: Bob Elliott

SP: Lefty Gomez
SP: Chuck Finley
SP: Larry Gura
SP: Matt Garza
SP: Mike Moore
RP: Jay Howell

Manager: Jeff Torborg
Fun Names: Gussie Gannon, Hanson Horsey
   3. TerpNats Posted: November 26, 2013 at 07:41 AM (#4606085)
That's "Indian Bob" Johnson, one of the more overlooked players of the '30s and early '40s. He was a victim of bad timing, joining the A's in 1933 after their decline had begun, spending 10 years there, then -- after one year with the second-place Senators -- played for the Red Sox in '44 and '45, retiring (at age 39) a year before the Bosox won the AL pennant.
   4. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: November 26, 2013 at 08:03 AM (#4606086)
A ridiculously deep pitching staff on today's Birthday Team.

The lineup is really good too - I'm pretty sure I've heard of all of them, which is rare. If the birthday league was still ongoing, I'd expect this to be one of the best teams of the bunch.
   5. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 26, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4606091)
I looked up Eddie Miller and was struck by the 7 All Star/8 years with MVP votes for a guy with an 80 OPS+. Looking at the WAR totals, I started to see the love: oWar of 15.1 and a dWAR of 19.0.
   6. Chris Fluit Posted: November 26, 2013 at 10:27 AM (#4606101)
Looking at a potential lineup for the Nov. 26 team:

1. Duffy, CF (RH): .326/.386/.451- 123 OPS+ (plus 547 stolen bases)
2. Tenney, 1B (LH): .294/.371/.358- 110 OPS+
3. Johnson, LF (RH): .296/.393/.506- 139 OPS+
4. Elliott, RF (RH): .289/.375/.440- 124 OPS+
5. Hebner, 3B (LH): .276/.352/.438- 119 OPS+
6. Reynolds, 2B (SW): .258/.327/.341- 83 OPS+
7. Schneider, C (LH): .247/.320/.369- 81 OPS+
8. Miller, SS (RH): .238/.290/.352- 80 OPS+

Duffy's the obvious leadoff hitter on this team- second highest on-base, far and away the most steals. Tenney is a solid number two with more on-base ability than power. Some managers might be tempted to flip Johnson and Elliott so as to have the biggest bat in the cleanup spot but I'd prefer to see Johnson bat third, partly because of his huge on-base. Another option would be to flip Elliott and Hebner so that the heart of the order is righty-lefty-righty but again I'd prefer to see the better hitter get more at-bats. Hebner's a solid five and should get lots of RBI opportunities with 4 players hitting ahead of him with obp of .370 or higher. I could see batting Schneider 6th instead of Reynolds especially as Schneider has a little more power but, this time, I did pay heed to handedness and intentionally broke up the lefthanded bats of Hebner and Schneider. One option would be to have two line-ups a la the late '60s Cardinals and move the lefties up against left-handed pitchers so that the alternate lineup is Duffy/Tenney/Johnson/Hebner/Elliott/Schneider/Reynolds/Miller. Miller, of course, should always bat eighth.

This team is also very good defensively. I took a look at both dWAR (which includes a positional component) and Runs fielding (which compares to the average at that position)

C: Schneider, +7.1 dWAR, +16 fielding runs
1B: Tenney, +3.5 dWAR, +84 fielding runs
2B: Reynolds: +6.7 dWAR, +25 fielding runs
3B: Hebner, -5.9 dWAR, -55 fielding runs
SS: Miller, +19.0 dWAR, +79 fielding runs
LF: Johnson, -5.8 dWAR, +18 fielding runs
CF: Duffy, -2.5 dWAR, +67 fielding runs
RF: Elliott, -3.0 dWAR, -4 fielding runs

That's a solid defensive team with only one real sinkhole in Hebner. They're especially strong up the middle with Schneider, Reynolds, Miller and Duffy. And they have one of the best gloves of all-time at first base in Tenney. They're +230 as a team according to fielding runs and +19.1 according to dWAR. In other words, the players basically offset each other in dWAR before adding in Miller's +19. Duffy gets dinged by dWAR because of the positional component- he spent time in left and right as well as CF- but does well in fielding runs. Johnson and Elliott aren't winning any Gold Gloves (or Fielding Bible Awards) but they at least hold their own.
   7. Chris Fluit Posted: November 26, 2013 at 10:30 AM (#4606102)
Looking at the bench:

How long before Matt Carpenter supplants Harold Reynolds as the starting second baseman? He's almost halfway to Reynolds' career WAR in a little more than a season and a half (15.8 to 7.5 for Reynolds). Carpenter's 135 OPS+ would look nice in that lineup- or any lineup for that matter.

   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 26, 2013 at 10:31 AM (#4606104)
Buster Olney tweets many execs are touting Dave Dombrowski as the next Commish. As the fan of a fellow AL Central team, I would gladly welcome that. Maybe the Tigers can bring back Randy Smith.
   9. The District Attorney Posted: November 26, 2013 at 11:31 AM (#4606138)
That he had drunk a mixture of photographic chemicals on a dare to show that they would do him no injury, was the finding of the coroner's jury at Mattoon [Illinois] today in the case of Orla Cutright, a photographer, who died suddenly of convulsions.
In other words, he died of "shaking it like a Polaroid picture."
   10. puck Posted: November 26, 2013 at 11:41 AM (#4606145)
That's "Indian Bob" Johnson, one of the more overlooked players of the '30s and early '40s.

Wow, look at his age 38 season. Obviously a roider, and it's no wonder he's been consigned to the dustbin of history.
   11. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: November 26, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4606148)
In other words, he died of "shaking it like a Polaroid picture."
Hey Ya!
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 26, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4606150)
Longtime Royals beat writer Bob Dutton is leaving to cover the Mariners. That sucks, I liked his feistiness in dealing with Twitter asshats.
   13. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: November 26, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4606179)
Wow, look at his age 38 season. Obviously a roider, and it's no wonder he's been consigned to the dustbin of history.
Hitler was the original PED.
   14. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 26, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4606198)
Hitler was the original PED.

but then he went too far
   15. Al Peterson Posted: November 26, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4606259)
The good thing about the birthday team is that when you want an excellent pitching performance Torborg can just catch himself. He was known for catching 3 no-hitters in his short career.
   16. esseff Posted: November 26, 2013 at 04:18 PM (#4606294)
   17. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: November 26, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4606303)
I think Gagne and Sexson are the first people born after me to appear on a HOF ballot. It's all downhill from here.
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 26, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4606310)
Ballot if anyone doesn't want to click:



*-first timers

Moises Alou *
Jeff Bagwell
Armando Benitez *
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Sean Casey *
Roger Clemens
Ray Durham *
Eric Gagne *
Tom Glavine *
Luis Gonzalez *
Jacque Jones *
Todd Jones *
Jeff Kent *
Paul Lo Duca *
Greg Maddux *
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina *
Hideo Nomo *
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Kenny Rogers *
Curt Schilling
Richie Sexson *
Lee Smith
J.T. Snow *
Sammy Sosa
Frank Thomas *
Mike Timlin *
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
   19. RJ in TO Posted: November 26, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4606317)
There are almost 20 players on that ballot I would at least consider voting for.
   20. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 26, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4606322)
And 1 who will be voted in. (Maddux)
   21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 26, 2013 at 06:09 PM (#4606371)
George Kottaras to the Cubs for cash.
   22. AndrewJ Posted: November 26, 2013 at 07:44 PM (#4606433)
Bill James observed, in introducing the Ken Keltner Test for HOF candidates, that Bob Elliott was a stronger candidate than Keltner.
   23. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: November 26, 2013 at 08:11 PM (#4606448)
Orla Cutright, a photographer, who died suddenly of convulsions.

Here's Orla's grave. He was only 27, and both his parents (38 and 42 at Orla's birth) outlived him.
   24. esseff Posted: November 26, 2013 at 10:00 PM (#4606495)
Giants release Jose Mijares, a de facto early non-tender.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Rough Carrigan
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(656 - 4:49pm, Oct 31)
Last: Merton Muffley

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(4893 - 4:47pm, Oct 31)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogMLB.com - In pursuit of Maddon, Cubs dismiss Renteria
(12 - 4:46pm, Oct 31)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

NewsblogAP: Sandoval, Shields Among 121 Free Agents
(13 - 4:42pm, Oct 31)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogFull Count ยป Red Sox sign Koji Uehara to 2-year contract
(34 - 4:42pm, Oct 31)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

NewsblogBoston.com: Youk Retires
(13 - 4:39pm, Oct 31)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogFree Agency Contract Calculator - Beyond the Box Score
(1 - 4:38pm, Oct 31)
Last: fra paolo

NewsblogSending Gordon | Joe Blogs
(26 - 4:24pm, Oct 31)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogJoe Maddon is to become Cubs manager, sources say
(138 - 4:22pm, Oct 31)
Last: Bunny Vincennes

NewsblogRelix: Watch the Exact Moment the Phish Crowd Found Out the Giants Won the World Series
(1 - 4:17pm, Oct 31)
Last: vortex of dissipation

Newsblog2014-2015 MLB free agent power ranking
(2 - 4:16pm, Oct 31)
Last: Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogDeadline: World Series Ratings: Game 7 Scores Home Run For Fox
(33 - 4:11pm, Oct 31)
Last: BDC

NewsblogGabe Kapler to the LA Dodgers Front Office? Misadventures in Twitter Direct Messages
(1 - 4:03pm, Oct 31)
Last: asinwreck

NewsblogStatcast: Gordon stops 90 feet from tying Game 7
(17 - 4:02pm, Oct 31)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

NewsblogAFL Saguaros at Rafters
(3 - 3:30pm, Oct 31)
Last: Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

Page rendered in 0.3908 seconds
52 querie(s) executed