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Wednesday, November 08, 2017

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-8-2017

South Bend News-Times, November 8, 1917:

“The Pacific Coast league will fight tooth and nail for its rights. If the new Union league is to be exempt from the draft, then the Pacific Coast league also must be exempt.” Allen T. Baum, president of the Coast league, made this statement today, commenting on the proposed merger of clubs of the International league and American association into the Union league.

I guess I hadn’t considered it before, but yeah - the PCL probably would have been seething about the plans to give the Union League some kind of special status.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: November 08, 2017 at 10:14 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: November 08, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5572819)
Not much in the way of starting pitching on today's Birthday Team. Victor Alvarez had one career start, good for fifth all-time among players born on November 8.

C: Yasmani Grandal (10.87 WAR)
1B: Jose Offerman (16.95 WAR)
2B: Tony Cuccinello (35.26 WAR)
3B: Edgardo Alfonzo (28.65 WAR)
SS: Jeff Blauser (20.89 WAR)
LF: Shane Halter (6.45 WAR)
CF: Wally Westlake (14.78 WAR)
RF: Giancarlo Stanton (35.06 WAR)

SP: John Denny (32.39 WAR)
SP: Bill Hoffer (19.48 WAR)
SP: Gary Lucas (5.28 WAR)
SP: Dave Black (-0.29 WAR)
SP: Victor Alvarez (-0.35 WAR)
RP: Bryan Shaw (6.37 WAR)

Manager/backup infielder: Bucky Harris (15.12 WAR)
Broadcaster/backup infielder: Jerry Remy (14.42 WAR)
Defensive replacement: Darwin Barney (9.26 WAR)
Utilityguy: Nick Punto (15.3 WAR)
Fun name: Beauty McGowan
   2. Batman Posted: November 08, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5572839)
A pretty good lineup with a lot of positional flexibility but some question marks in the rotation. November 8 is the Cubs.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 08, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5572846)
I have two friends who are having birthdays today. Neither of them is likely to help the team, though.
   4. Batman Posted: November 08, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5572861)
Bucky Harris died on his birthday. That won't be good for team morale.
   5. No longer interested in this website Posted: November 08, 2017 at 11:00 AM (#5572869)
That team might be the 365th best of the birthday teams.
   6. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 08, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5572879)
That team might be the 365th best of the birthday teams.

No way. That lineup is really solid. There are some MUCH worse teams.
   7. BDC Posted: November 08, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5572881)
That lineup is really solid

Heckuva lot of infield depth, too. Even the third and first basemen are good middle infielders.
   8. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 08, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5572884)
That team might be the 365th best of the birthday teams.
How quickly people forget...
   9. Ziggy: The Platonic Form of Russell Branyan Posted: November 08, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5572947)
It's my mom's birthday. Maybe she can pitch?
   10. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 08, 2017 at 01:11 PM (#5573001)
I'm surprised to see Gary Lucas listed as a starter - he started 18 games as a rookie with the 1980 Padres, then worked exclusively out of the pen for the rest of his eight-year career. But hey, this rotation needs help.
   11. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 08, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5573015)
Victor Alvarez had one career start, good for fifth all-time among players born on November 8.


Need a starting pitcher who has won an MVP award and the award for the best pitcher in his country? 2014 Pacific League MVP and Sawamura Award winner Chihiro Kaneko of the Orix Blue Wave (116-71, 2.91 ERA in his career so far) was born on November 8.
   12. Austin Kearns: The Spy Who Shagged Flies Posted: November 08, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5573067)
That team might be the 365th best of the birthday teams.


I think that will depend on who they get in return when they trade Stanton to a different day this offseason.
   13. No longer interested in this website Posted: November 08, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5573102)
Pitching is at least a third of the game. And that staff is terrible. I haven't seen all 365 teams, but this one is a stinker. Infield depth, Schminfield Depth, that's a 110-loss team.

I'm also pretty sure that the first time Offerman makes an error behind Denny, the two of them will get in a fist fight, resulting in some serious blood. We all know Offerman will pull a bat.
   14. No longer interested in this website Posted: November 08, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5573105)
How quickly people forget...


What? A rotation of Kaat, Joe Niekro, Benson, Sonny Gray, and the reliable Joe Hatten? That's a very solid pitching staff. The lineup has several weak hitters, but not 4-A players by any means. Dick Stuart would still drive in 95.
   15. No longer interested in this website Posted: November 08, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5573109)
Heckuva lot of infield depth, too. Even the third and first basemen are good middle infielders


Jose Offerman and "good middle infielder" do not belong in the same sentence. Your assignment is to go back and rewatch the 1990s.

Offerman made over 200 errors in only 1,100 games in the middle infield. Holy crap, I can't believe that's right, but it is. I knew he was bad, probably one of the 2-3 worst defensive shortstops since Eisenhower was in the White House, but holy crud those are bad numbers. And imagine all the baseballs he didn't get to. Errors he never had a chance to make.
   16. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: November 08, 2017 at 03:59 PM (#5573132)
The lineup has several weak hitters, but not 4-A players by any means.
Sularz, Strange, Santana*, Norwood, and Tomberlin weren't 4A players? The average season for these 5 players, over 23 combined seasons:

55 games
162 PA
9 XBH
.239/.296/.341

For reference, the active Billy Hamilton's career line is .248/.298/.334. But none of them, in their career, stole as many bases as Hamilton did in any of the past 4 seasons**, and none of them were Gold Glove-caliber CFs. For reference, Hamilton's worst season by bWAR was his 1st, at 0.7; Santana's rookie season is the only of the 23 combined by those 5 higher than that.

The best hitter among them was Santana - 1133 career PA, 83 OPS+. Norwood, Santana, and Strange each had one season of >400 PA. Sularz had 235 career PA, Tomberlin had 338 PA.

As noted in the post yesterday, "Jim Kaat is fifth among November 7 players in career AB."

*OK, I now see Santana is still active, but I can't imagine his last 3 seasons (703 PA, 55 OPS+, -3.7 bWAR) is going to land him anything other than a non-roster invite next year.
**Combined for their careers, they didn't steal as many as Hamilton over any 2 of the past 4 seasons.
   17. Batman Posted: November 08, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5573149)
If Gary Lucas had gotten Rich Gedman out instead of hitting him with a pitch, the baseball legacies of Donnie Moore, Bill Buckner, Bob Stanley, Dave Henderson, Mike Witt, Doug DeCinces, Gene Mauch, and Gedman would all be different.
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: November 08, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5573155)
If Gary Lucas had gotten Rich Gedman out instead of hitting him with a pitch, the baseball legacies of Donnie Moore, Bill Buckner, Bob Stanley, Dave Henderson, Mike Witt, Doug DeCinces, Gene Mauch, and Gedman would all be different.
He's not the only one on the birthday pitching staff with an outing that swung a bunch of baseball legacies...
   19. Perry Posted: November 08, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5573233)
That team might be the 365th best of the birthday teams.


Pretty sure it beats mine. Haven't checked systematically, but I think the WAR leaders are John Briggs (24.0) and Mike Timlin (19.6) and it drops off from there.
   20. AndrewJ Posted: November 08, 2017 at 07:59 PM (#5573273)
That team might be the 365th best of the birthday teams.

Not a great bench, but a reasonably solid team -- four of the eight starters have 20+ career WAR (and two of the starting pitchers have 19+).
   21. caspian88 Posted: November 08, 2017 at 09:28 PM (#5573293)
This was the draft where AL/NL teams could purchase a player from a minor league team for a set amount without recourse for the minor league team, incentivizing them to sell players to teams for more cash as soon as viable, correct?

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