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Thursday, December 19, 2013

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-19-2013

Milwaukee Journal, December 19, 1913:

It has been a question of how the rules could be changed to prevent a pitcher from purposely walking a batter. The latest suggestion for a rule which would give the batter a chance under such conditions comes from the veteran, Jack Doyle.

Doyle would force the pitcher to put at least one ball over the plate before he would be allowed to walk a batter. He claims that such a rule would give the batter a chance to show his prowess. The idea is a novel one, but it would not help matters much, for it would be neither fair to the batter nor pitcher.

Well, it’s not a great rule, but I like it more than I like interleague play or the DH.

Dan Lee prefers good shortstops to great paintings Posted: December 19, 2013 at 07:02 AM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, rules

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   1. Dan Lee prefers good shortstops to great paintings Posted: December 19, 2013 at 07:05 AM (#4620692)
No superstars on the pitching staff of today's Birthday Team, but that's a pretty reasonable set of arms.

C: Tom Wilson
1B: Russell Branyan
2B: Tony Taylor
3B: Wally Gilbert
SS: Mickey Witek
LF: Tommy O'Brien
CF: Al Kaline
RF: Walt Williams

SP: Geoff Zahn
SP: Bill Wegman
SP: Ian Kennedy
SP: Rex Barney
SP: Jose Silva
RP: Rafael Soriano
RP: Mike Fetters

Commissioner: Ford Frick
Scout: Paul Krichell
MLB Twins: Stan Cliburn and Stew Cliburn
Six home runs in one college game: Marshall McDougall
   2. John Northey Posted: December 19, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4620722)
Imagine what Bonds 2001-2004 would've been like if that rule was in place...284 intentional walks but if they had to throw one strike each time what might have happened? With an 809 Slg% and a 559 OBP might that slg% have gone even higher? The OBP would've dropped a bit for sure but boy it would've been fun to see the fear go even higher. Geez, that was amazing PED's or not - a 256 OPS+ and in those 4 years his worst Avg/OBP/Slg were 328/515/749. Sheesh. Imagine if he did them when he was in his prime instead of at age 36.
   3. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4620761)

Yesterday's discovery that Joe Randa had played a large number of games at 3B without ever being an All-Star got me wondering which players had the most games at given positions without ever being named to an AS team. The positions, total games, and hints below offer trivia opportunities.

Note: the list is a bit subjective, because I counted players who played largely in the All-Star era only. Somebody else might have picked a slightly different group. A bit arbitrary. For instance, Rogers Hornsby and Rabbit Maranville were never All-Stars, despite being technically eligible for the first game or few; but they were done as star players by that point, so it seemed silly to choose them as trivia entries.

Here goes:

C 1,633 games: he's probably happy with his WS MVP instead
1B 2,057 games: bad luck to be competing with Foxx, Gehrig, Trosky, York, and Greenberg
2B 1,449 games: bad luck to be long-time teammate of a couple of HOFers
3B 1,983 games: bad luck to go head-to-head with Robinson, Nettles, Bell, Bando
SS 1,843 games: might have had his best chance during his three seasons in his nickname county
** the outfielders are the top three, not sorted by position**
OF 1,831 games: the only one still active, so he still has a chance to steal away from the list
OF 1,778 games: played for 9 teams in both leagues, was best as a Cub teammate of Bill Madlock
OF 1,687 games: despite covering 1/3 of the globe
SP: 458 starts: he and Johnny Bench were "hot rookies for 1968," but Bench got a little hotter
RP: 1,054 relief appearances: good-looking Texan with four rings
   4. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:46 AM (#4620765)
Scout: Paul Krichell


With him on your scouting staff, you can't find anyone better than Russell Branyan as your 3rd best player?
   5. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4620766)
OF 1,778 games: played for 9 teams in both leagues, was best as a Cub teammate of Bill Madlock


Jose Cardenal
   6. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:48 AM (#4620768)
OF 1,687 games: despite covering 1/3 of the globe


Garry Maddox
   7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:49 AM (#4620770)
SDP trades IF Jesus Guzman to HOU for SS Ryan Jackson. HOU had picked up Jackson off waivers from STL a few weeks ago.
   8. JJ1986 Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:51 AM (#4620771)
RP: 1,054 relief appearances: good-looking Texan with four rings


Mike Timlin?
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:51 AM (#4620773)
Minor league deals:

CHC - LHP Jonathan Sanchez
TEX - IF Kensuke Tanaka, P Justin Germano

Korea - OF Luke Scott, P Rick Vandenhurk
Japan - P Greg Reynolds (Seibu)

Marlins DFA former sixth overall pick C Kyle Skipworth
   10. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4620775)
Maddox, Cardenal, and Timlin are all correct. I'd have found Cardenal and Timlin very hard to guess: they were among the hardest to come up with clues for; perhaps because they played for so many teams.
   11. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 19, 2013 at 10:55 AM (#4620780)
C 1,633 games: he's probably happy with his WS MVP instead

Pat Borders?

1B 2,057 games: bad luck to be competing with Foxx, Gehrig, Trosky, York, and Greenberg

Zeke Bonura?

3B 1,983 games: bad luck to go head-to-head with Robinson, Nettles, Bell, Bando

Aurelio Rodriguez?
   12. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 11:00 AM (#4620785)
Rodriguez: yes; Borders and Bonura, no.
   13. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 19, 2013 at 11:06 AM (#4620789)
SP: 458 starts: he and Johnny Bench were "hot rookies for 1968," but Bench got a little hotter

Jerry Koosman?
   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 19, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4620791)
Jerry Koosman must have more than 458 starts. He pitched forever.
   15. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 19, 2013 at 11:14 AM (#4620795)
OF 1,831 games: the only one still active, so he still has a chance to steal away from the list


Juan Pierre?
   16. Sweatpants Posted: December 19, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4620798)
Joe Kuhel?
   17. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4620799)
Pierre is correct; Koosman, no. (Koosman had 527 starts – and was an All-Star his first two seasons, though never again.)

Joe Kuhel is correct, too. Heck of a player, but a below-average AL first baseman in some years (!?)
   18. JustDan Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4620846)
Is that total games played or games played at that position? I ask because 1633 games at catcher is quite a lot of games as a catcher, and never to be an all star.

Oh, I suppose I should guess someone.. How about Enos Cabell?

Edit: Cabell was a 3B, which has been answered. I don't know why I thought he was an outfielder.
   19. JJ1986 Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4620854)
How about Rick Dempsey as the catcher?
   20. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4620856)
Games at the position, Dan. Yes, the catcher was around forever: but "only" a regular for nine years midcareer.

EDIT: Dempsey, correct!
   21. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4620858)
I guess that leaves the middle infielders and the starting pitcher … I may have to run some errands here, but will check back at some point today. Enjoy.
   22. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:17 PM (#4620868)
Marlins DFA former sixth overall pick C Kyle Skipworth


About time. If he hadn't been a first-round pick he'd have been gone two or three years ago.

-- MWE
   23. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4620876)
I guess that leaves the middle infielders and the starting pitcher


SS: Orlando Cabrera, who was up against Larkin and Rollins in the early part of his career in the NL and Jeter when he moved over to the Angels.

-- MWE
   24. JustDan Posted: December 19, 2013 at 12:30 PM (#4620878)
Alfredo Griffin has one all-star appearance, and it was only because Trammell was hurt and Griffin was at the game as a guest of another player (Damaso Garcia). So he was named as a backup because it was too late to find anyone else. I'm not sure if that one appearance keeps him off this list.
   25. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 01:15 PM (#4620912)
2B - Tommy Helms?

SP - Stan Bahnsen?
   26. Chris Fluit Posted: December 19, 2013 at 01:22 PM (#4620916)
Without looking at everyone else's answers...

C 1,633 games: he's probably happy with his WS MVP instead

Pat Borders

1B 2,057 games: bad luck to be competing with Foxx, Gehrig, Trosky, York, and Greenberg

Lu Blue

3B 1,983 games: bad luck to go head-to-head with Robinson, Nettles, Bell, Bando

Aurelio Rodriguez

** the outfielders are the top three, not sorted by position**
OF 1,831 games: the only one still active, so he still has a chance to steal away from the list
OF 1,778 games: played for 9 teams in both leagues, was best as a Cub teammate of Bill Madlock
OF 1,687 games: despite covering 1/3 of the globe

Nick Markakis
Dave Kingman or Gary Matthews Sr.
Hideki Matsui


RP: 1,054 relief appearances: good-looking Texan with four rings

either Jeff Nelson or Mike Stanton, the set up guys for Mariano during the last Yankees dynasty
   27. Chris Fluit Posted: December 19, 2013 at 01:25 PM (#4620918)
Sheesh, I only got one right.

   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4620939)
Scott Downs to the White Sox - 1/$4 mill

A's get OF Corey Brown from the Nats for cash

P Chien Ming Wang to the Reds on a minor league deal
   29. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4620971)
I'd have found Cardenal and Timlin very hard to guess:


Cubs fan, growing up in Chicago in the 70's. I'd have know Cardenal without the Madlock clue.
   30. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:24 PM (#4620974)
The OC is correct.

The 2B is famous for playing his whole career with one team, and not in a large market, during the FA era. But even there he's overshadowed.

The SP is now pretty obscure, obviously, and is hard to give a clue for. He once won 20 games; he had one excellent World Series; although he was a better pitcher after the ASB, he had some good first halves, too. But for his career, just a 98 ERA+. The Mets acquired him late in his career and he fell off the cliff while a Met, but that hardly narrows it down, does it.
   31. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4620978)
The 2B is famous for playing his whole career with one team, and not in a large market, during the FA era. But even there he's overshadowed.


Gotta be Gantner.
   32. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4620979)
2B - Jim Gantner?

SP - John Candelaria?
   33. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4620983)
Gantner is correct! Candelaria is not, having been an All-Star once.
   34. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 19, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4620999)
SP: Mike Torrez

-- MWE
   35. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4621013)
Torrez indeed.

That completes the non-AS club:

C Dempsey
1B Kuhel
2B Gantner
3B Rodriguez
SS Cabrera
OF Pierre
OF Cardenal
OF Maddox
SP Torrez
RP Timlin

Strikes me as a very good defensive unit. Also guys who could hold their own (relative to position) up and down the lineup. But it lacks real hitting stars, unsurprisingly.
   36. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:16 PM (#4621033)
The SP is now pretty obscure, obviously, and is hard to give a clue for.


Surely that goddamned pop fly to left he allowed in Game 163 hasn't been totally lost to history.
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4621049)
Tim Salmon would have been the first name I would have thought of for that team, but I see he only had 1266 games in the outfield (1672 overall).

Want a DH? There is an active player with 1043 games at DH (9th most all-time at that position) that has never made an All-Star appearance.
   38. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4621076)
Want a DH? There is an active player with 1043 games at DH (9th most all-time at that position) that has never made an All-Star appearance.


Hafner?

   39. Davo Dozier (Mastroianni) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4621098)
Want a DH? There is an active player with 1043 games at DH (9th most all-time at that position) that has never made an All-Star appearance.
Is he also the all-time leading home run hitter among players born in my home state of North Dakota?
   40. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 19, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4621100)
If Hafner has never been to an ASG, that means David Ortiz must have like twelve appearances, because there's been barely any other full-time DHs in his whole career. I think Billy Butler got there once, and maybe someone on the Rangers?
   41. Davo Dozier (Mastroianni) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4621119)
If Hafner has never been to an ASG, that means David Ortiz must have like twelve appearances, because there's been barely any other full-time DHs in his whole career. I think Billy Butler got there once, and maybe someone on the Rangers?

You have to remember, in only one of the 4 All-Star games from 2004 to 2007 (Hafner's peak) was a Designated Hitter allowed. The 2004, 2006 and 2007 games took place in NL parks, meaning the pitchers had to bat for themselves. (MLB didn't start allowing the DH at all All-Star games until 2011.)
   42. Davo Dozier (Mastroianni) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4621124)
Tsuyoshi Wada to the Cubs.

Xavier Paul to the Orioles.

Luke Scott to Korea.
   43. BDC Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4621126)
Surely that goddamned pop fly to left he allowed in Game 163 hasn't been totally lost to history

Yeah, on retrospect I should have hinted something like "He didn't let adversity put a Dent in his career" :)
   44. Dan Lee prefers good shortstops to great paintings Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:24 PM (#4621130)
Luke Scott to Korea.
Don't tell the North Koreans we're sending an armed American to Incheon.
   45. Davo Dozier (Mastroianni) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:49 PM (#4621157)
In addition to the Bucky Dent homer, Mike Torrez:

* Was traded for Reggie Jackson

* Beaned Dickie Thon and effectively ended his career.

* Once walked 10 batters in a single game, tied for the most of any pitcher in the last 30 years.
   46. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 19, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4621160)
Hafner?


Yep.

If Hafner has never been to an ASG, that means David Ortiz must have like twelve appearances,


Nine. Butler made it once. Adam Dunn has one appearance as a DH too. Jim Thome had one. Milton Bradley had one. Mike Sweeney had two appearances in seasons where he was a DH.
   47. Dag Nabbit: secretary of the World Banana Forum Posted: December 19, 2013 at 05:37 PM (#4621211)

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