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Friday, January 10, 2014

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-10-2014

A terrific extended article on baseball superstitions in the Ogden Standard, January 10, 1914:

Jack Harper, St. Louis Americans and Cincinnati Nationals always wore blue underwear. Hence the name “Blue-Sleeves” Harper.
...
Hans Wagner, like Woodrow Wilson, believes the number 13 is a lucky one. Hans wants “13” on the sleepers and in the hotels. It is given to him whenever possible.

Cross-eyed fans are the abomination of every ball player. But a cross-eyed woman they will run a mile from. Arthur Devlin once refused to play a series in Boston for McGraw because a cross-eyed woman had him jinxed. Devlin finally did go in, but played so poorly that McGraw took him out of the game and kept him out of the series.

He had to go on the seven-day “jinxed by a cross-eyed woman” disabled list.

Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 09:10 AM | 72 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: art devlin, dugout, history, honus wagner, jack harper, superstition

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 09:13 AM (#4635491)
Birthday team's pretty good - two HOFers and a bunch of solid MLB regulars*. Just make sure you declare the clubhouse a Carbolic Acid Free Zone.

C: Johnny Peacock
1B: Willie McCovey
2B: Del Pratt
3B: Adam Kennedy
SS: George Strickland
LF: Bob Brower
CF: Harry Wright
RF: Chick Stahl

SP: Jim O'Toole
SP: Richard Dotson
SP: Chuck Dobson
SP: Cliff Chambers
SP: George Pierce
RP: Ted Bowsfield

Not that one: John Houseman
Didn't run for president: Matt Roney
On the Indians bench of my youth: Dan Rohn and Pat Keedy
Tidewater Tides middle infield: Kevin Baez and Kelvin Torve

* - not much in left field, though. Choosing between Jim Lindeman and Bob Brower is a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
   2. BDC Posted: January 10, 2014 at 09:39 AM (#4635506)
Richard Dotson is three months older than I am. He was briefly a star, but the thing I remember best about him is Bill James wondering if he was going to have to change his name to Richard Nissan.
   3. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 09:53 AM (#4635517)
Chick Stahl--the carbolic acid guy--had 23 brothers and sisters.
   4. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 10:51 AM (#4635572)
In 1952, George Strickland--the shortstop on our Birthday Team--was traded to the Cleveland Indians for second baseman Johnny Beradino.

7 years later, Johnny Beradino portrayed Sergeant Emil ("Emil???") Klinger in North by Northwest, where he graciously allowed a drunk Cary Grant ("These two men, they poured a whole bottle of bourbon into me. No, they didn't give me a chaser") to call his mother.

And Cary Grant was in Walk Don't Run with Alex Rodine who was in JFK with Kevin Bacon!
   5. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4635578)
The Pittsburgh Pirates have thrown 6 no-hitters in their franchise history, and Cliff Chambers has one.
   6. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4635579)
Trivia time!!!

Name the top ten managers in wins who have not played in the majors.
3 of the 10 are active.
3 of the 10 are in the Hall of Fame.
4 of the 10 have the initials J.M.
4 of the 10 have won a World Series.
1 of the 10 does not fall into any of the above categories.
   7. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4635580)
Adam Kennedy was on the 2004 Angels with David Eckstein, whose wife Ashley was in 'Alice Upside Down' with Penny Marshall, who was in 'She's Having A Baby' with Kevin Bacon.
   8. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:01 AM (#4635585)
I'm just awful at manager trivia. The worst! And I even bought Dag Nabbit's book!

Joe Maddon has to be one of the answers. Jack McKeon must be another.
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:08 AM (#4635593)
I'm just awful at manager trivia. The worst! And I even bought Dag Nabbit's book!

My first two guesses both turn out to have had decade-long MLB careers. So, I give up.
   10. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:08 AM (#4635594)
Both Maddon and McKeon are correct!
   11. JJ1986 Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:12 AM (#4635600)
Joe McCarthy is a JM and a HOFer.
   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4635607)
Buck Showalter
Sparky Anderson
Earl Weaver
   13. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4635610)
Jim Leyland
   14. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4635612)
Sparky Anderson had a career--one of those incredibly odd ones, that lasted for exactly one season, yet he was a regular for that entire year.

Sparky played 152 terrible games for the 1959 Phillies, but those were the only games of his entire playing career.

He's like Bizarro Buzz Arlett.
   15. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:24 AM (#4635614)
Showalter and Weaver are correct.
Anderson was a regular for the 1959 Phillies. He was pretty awful.
   16. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:27 AM (#4635619)
McCarthy and Leyland is correct.

1. McCarthy (JM, HOF, WS)
2. Leyland (WS)
3. Weaver (HOF, WS)
4. ?
5. Showalter (Active)
6. ?
7. McKeon (JM, WS)
8. Maddon (Active, JM)
9. ?
10. ?
   17. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4635622)
John McNamara?

Also, hat tip to [4] .. very interesting. Apparently Beradino is the only guy to have a WS ring and a star on the Walk of Fame.
   18. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM (#4635629)
A few other guys whose entire career was just one season, but it was a season where they were a regular player--and then they never got another chance (beyond the famous cases of Sparky Anderson and Buzz Arlett):

Hector Rodriguez (1952 White Sox)
Johnny Sturm (1941 Yankees)
Gair Allie (1954 Pirates)
Ernie Sulik (1936 Phillies)
Ham Schulte (1940 Phillies)
Scotty Ingerton (1911 Braves)
Herman Reich, who played 111 games for 3 different teams in 1949, but never played again
   19. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4635633)
Another baseball player in Hollywood was Ernie Orsatti. He was in "Death on the Diamond" though he doesn't have much of an IMDB entry.

His son is still a very prominent stunt coordinator.
   20. BDC Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4635635)
I don't know the rest of the trivia answers, but I do know that Walter Alston misses the list on account of a single ML at-bat in 1936.
   21. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4635636)
McNamara is correct.

1. McCarthy (JM, HOF, WS)
2. Leyland (WS)
3. Weaver (HOF, WS)
4. ?
5. Showalter (Active)
6. McNamara (JM)
7. McKeon (JM, WS)
8. Maddon (Active, JM)
9. ?
10. ?
   22. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4635640)
And I think the only reason Alston batted was because Medwick(?) was tossed from the game. Alston struck out in his only at bat.

edit: Not Medwick but Mize.
   23. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4635645)
So we're missing an active guy? Umm...Fredi Gonzaelz? Ned Yost?
   24. Good cripple hitter Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM (#4635648)
Maybe John Gibbons sneaks into the 10 spot?

Edit: Nope, 18 games with the Mets.
   25. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:45 AM (#4635650)
Gonzalez and Gibbons are incorrect.

   26. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:46 AM (#4635651)
Jim Tracy never played in the majors, right? I am NOT looking it up this time because it's going to turn out he spent twelve years with the 1970s Padres or Mariners.
   27. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4635654)
Yost is incorrect too as he has a few years played, mostly with the early '80 Brewers.
   28. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:49 AM (#4635657)
Tracy played 2 years (185 AB) with the 80/81 Cubs.
   29. JJ1986 Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:50 AM (#4635660)
Active guy might be Terry Collins.
   30. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:52 AM (#4635662)
Collins is correct! just 2 left--

1. McCarthy (JM, HOF, WS)
2. Leyland (WS)
3. Weaver (HOF, WS)
4. ? (HOF - last managed in 1905)
5. Showalter (Active)
6. McNamara (JM)
7. McKeon (JM, WS)
8. Maddon (Active, JM)
9. Collins (Active)
10. ? (none - last managed in 2011)
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: January 10, 2014 at 11:59 AM (#4635670)
Jim Riggleman?
   32. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4635673)
10. ? (none - last managed in 2011)

OK, that helps. I'm guessing this is Jim Riggleman.

Edit: dammit!
   33. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4635676)
Riggleman is correct!

Fredi Gonzalez is 15th, but is only 107 wins behind Riggleman.

The last guy managed the Boston Beaneaters and the Chicago Orphans/Cubs.

   34. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4635679)
This is driving me nuts. I know who the guy is, but cannot come up with his name. I keep thinking "Slim Sallee", but it's not him.

Argh. Can anyone help a brother out?
   35. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4635688)
You're so close with the name - The Baseball Library describes him as "A balding little man with a modest demeanor and a formidable mustache that gave his face a melancholy cast"
   36. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4635702)
I didn't know that he was in the HOF. And you were real close, Dan.
   37. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4635704)
Frank Selee, built the Cubs taken over by Chance.
   38. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4635713)
Frank Selee is correct!.

The answers with # of wins.

1. Joe McCarthy 2125 (JM, HOF, WS)
2. Jim Leyland 1769 (WS)
3. Earl Weaver 1480 (HOF, WS)
4. Frank Selee 1284 (HOF)
5. Buck Showalter 1163 (Active)
6. John McNamara 1160 (JM)
7. Jack McKeon 1051 (JM, WS)
8. Joe Maddon 704 (JM, Active)
9. Terry Collins 669 (Active)
10. Jim Riggleman 662 (none)
   39. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4635720)
I can't believe there have been so few that guys like Maddon and Riggleman are on the list!
   40. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4635726)
Frank Selee. That would explain why I was thinking of Slim Sallee. Thanks!
   41. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM (#4635728)
Terms of Scott Feldman's contract were announced today. It's unusual in that it's front-loaded--$12MM this year, then $10MM, then $8MM in 2016.

Eric Patterson signs a minor league deal with the White Sox.
   42. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM (#4635736)
Since Riggleman was always managing bad teams (except the 1998 Cubs), ranking by wins is deceptive. He has way more losses than Collins and Maddon!
   43. JustDan Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:00 PM (#4635753)
Here they are with games managed:

1. Leyland 3499
2. McCarthy 3487
3. Weaver 2541
4. McNamara 2395
5. Showalter 2259
6. Selee 2180
7. McKeon 2042
8. Riggleman 1486
9. ** Dave Bristol 1424 (657 wins, only winning team was Reds and looks like he was replaced by Sparky)
10. Collins 1364
11. ** Gus Schmelz 1357 (624 wins, managed 1884-1897 - who has heard of this guy?)
12. Maddon 1348
   44. vortex of dissipation Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:03 PM (#4635758)
Herman Reich, who played 111 games for 3 different teams in 1949, but never played again


It's hard to imagine a name that would be less popular in the 1940s than Herman Reich...
   45. BDC Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4635764)
I can't believe there have been so few that guys like Maddon and Riggleman are on the list!

662 wins for Riggleman, though, that's what, 11 years of managing the Cubs.
   46. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:18 PM (#4635778)
45--I became a baseball fan in the summer of 1996. So 1997 was my first ever "full" season following a baseball team. I spent all winter of 1996 reading about all the players on my favorite team, so I'd be ready for opening day 1997.

My favorite team? Jim Riggleman's Cubs. 1997? Yeah--that was the year they started 0 and 14.
   47. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:24 PM (#4635787)
45--I became a baseball fan in the summer of 1996. So 1997 was my first ever "full" season following a baseball team. I spent all winter of 1996 reading about all the players on my favorite team, so I'd be ready for opening day 1997.

Same here with the Phillies, one year later. I still have such a strong impression of Kevin Jordan that I confuse him with Brian Jordan, who is objectively about 500 times more famous.
   48. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4635792)
I confuse Kevin Jordan with Ricky Jordan. I confuse Milt Thompson with Curt Ford. I confuse Ben Rivera with Bobby Munoz. I confuse Tommy Greene with Tyler Green. I confuse Wes Chamberlain with Lee Tinsley.

I am confused about early 90s Philadelphia Phillies.
   49. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 01:35 PM (#4635794)
I confuse Tommy Greene with Danny Jackson. Which one used to be on the Royals? Which one was insanely 'roided up? Tyler Green was later.

I confuse Ben Rivera with Bobby Munoz.

And Calvin Maduro.
   50. Coot Veal and Cot Deal's cols=“100” rows=“20” Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4635816)
It's hard to imagine a name that would be less popular in the 1940s than Herman Reich...


Herman Reich III?
   51. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:18 PM (#4635827)
Feldman deal: makes total sense to frontload it, right?
Dontrelle to Giants on a minor league deal.
   52. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:24 PM (#4635831)
Adolph Whittler?
   53. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:47 PM (#4635845)
This marks the 100th comeback attempt for Dontrelle Willis, who turns 32 in two days, making him two years older than Scott Kazmir.
   54. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:03 PM (#4635864)
I confuse Tommy Greene with Danny Jackson. Which one used to be on the Royals? Which one was insanely 'roided up? Tyler Green was later.



Jackson was on the Royals, although I remember the Royals sigend Greene expecting him to be in their rotation until his arm fell off in spring training.

You're confusing Tyler Green with Tyler Greene. Tyler Green and Tommy Greene were pitching teammates on the 1993-1994 Phils. Tyler Greene is a middle IF who recently played for the Cards and Astros.
   55. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4635871)
Herman Reich III?

The home run call for him was "Goering, Goering, Gone!"
   56. esseff Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:12 PM (#4635873)
Choosing between Jim Lindeman and Bob Brower is a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.



I'll go with Lindeman, just for 1987 NLCS Game 3, which to me was the key game in securing the pennant for the Cardinals in a series that went the distance.
   57. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4635874)
AG, I thought that both Greene and Jackson seemed roided up, along with half that team.

We moved to Overland Park from Philly in '96 and spent many birthday party for our kids' friends at Danny Jackson's Incred-a-Bowl. My older son, who remembers the '93 Phils team (he was 6), liked that he bowled at Jackson's place.
   58. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4635880)
Harry Wright--the center fielder on our birthday team--is the only Hall of Famer born in the United Kingdom.

Your born-in-the-UK All-Star team:

C: Harry Smith
1b: Ed Cogswell
2b: Hugh Nicol / Hobe Ferris
3b: Jimmy Austin
Ss: Dave Brain
LF: Tom Brown
CF: "The Flying Scot" Bobby Thomson
RF: Harry Wright
SP: Danny Cox
SP: Jim McCormick
SP: Ted Lewis
RP: Lance Painter

Manager / Glove manufacturer: Al Reach
   59. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4635892)
#56--Thanks to that link, I now know that Lance Johnson played on the 87 Cardinals. They had speedy players to burn!
   60. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:41 PM (#4635898)
#56--Thanks to that link, I now know that Lance Johnson played on the 87 Cardinals. They had speedy players to burn!


And Alex Cole was in AA. And he didn't lead their minor leagues in stolen bases, Geronimo Pena in A ball swiped 80 bags that year.
   61. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:42 PM (#4635899)
You're confusing Tyler Green with Tyler Greene. Tyler Green and Tommy Greene were pitching teammates on the 1993-1994 Phils.

No, I know the difference between those two, because when I started following the Phillies Tyler Green was a young guy who was supposed to be part of the future (but injuries got in the way), while Tommy Greene was already washed up.

The thing is, I thought Tommy Greene was the guy who liked to rip his shirt open and hulk out, which was actually Danny Jackson.

This is definitely the most interesting conversation we could be having right now.
   62. Davo Dozier Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4635926)
61--Well, by any measure, it's more interesting than my attempted UK All-Star Team hijack.
   63. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:39 PM (#4635928)
No one has ever not confused Steve Jeltz and Skip Jutze.
   64. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4635932)
Hell, I still get Journey and Foreigner mixed up. Intellectually I know the difference, but play me an album cut from either one and I've got a 50% chance of guessing which it is.
   65. vortex of dissipation Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4635937)
61--Well, by any measure, it's more interesting than my attempted UK All-Star Team hijack.


No, it's not. I was born in the UK, so UK-born major-leagers are something I'm quite interested in. I have a Strat-O-Matic solitaire draft league, which includes most of those players, but when I saw your post, I added the ones I didn't already have in the league. So I thank you for that...

You could have added

SP/Aircraft designer/Founder of wacky religion: Alfred Lawson
   66. BDC Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4635938)
Yankees DFA Vernon Wells. And yes, when I saw that headline, I thought it was David Wells.
   67. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4635946)
SP/Aircraft designer/Founder of wacky religion: Alfred Lawson
Wow. That's a pretty...interesting...religion.

I make it a point to not mock other people's honestly held theological beliefs, so I'll just say...huh. That's interesting.
   68. Steve N Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:04 PM (#4635948)
I could never keep Greg Harris and Greg Harris straight.
   69. Snowboy Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4635966)
I've read it in many places that Honus Wagner was called "Hans" by contemporaries, such as the link in the OP and Christy Mathewson calls him Hans in "Pitching in a Pinch."
But Hans is not listed as one of his nicknames on BBRef. Is there a story behind this (ie did Wagner in later life object to the nickname?) or is it just a minor oversight?
   70. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4635968)
There was also a Gene Harris that pitched about the same time.

Mark Portugal and Mark Gardner and Mark Leiter were guys I always mixed up too. I think all pitched for the Giants at some point?
   71. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:40 PM (#4635980)
I've read it in many places that Honus Wagner was called "Hans" by contemporaries, such as the link in the OP and Christy Mathewson calls him Hans in "Pitching in a Pinch."
But Hans is not listed as one of his nicknames on BBRef. Is there a story behind this (ie did Wagner in later life object to the nickname?) or is it just a minor oversight?


I guess it's a minor oversight. But when you think about it, "Honus" basically is "Hans", just spelled different.

"Honus" = "Hannes" = short for Johannes
   72. BDC Posted: January 10, 2014 at 06:04 PM (#4635991)
There was a Greg Harris that Kalas and Ashburn used to call "The Phillie-Killer," and there was a Greg Harris who pitched for the Rangers and threw with both hands. But come to think of it, I believe they were the same guy. Neither Greg Harris actually had much career success against the Phillies; they were probably being ironic, or extrapolating from one memorable game, or something.

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