Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, January 08, 2014

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-8-2014

Pittsburgh Press, January 8, 1914:

It was rumored [in Cincinnati] today that Major league magnates have quietly combined to make Federal league backers figuratively shoot themselves to death with their own money.
...
It is said the case of Otto Knabe is the first demonstration of the new scheme.

“Go ahead and grab that $20,000 three-year contract,” President Baker of the Phillies is said to have told Otto. “We can’t give you that. Bind them to it, because with such enormous payrolls they will probably blow in a few months at the most. Your old job will be waiting for you—unless we get a new one in your place.”

I’d say something snarky about Knabe being a 30-year-old second baseman who hadn’t posted an OPS+ above 90 since 1907, so of course they’d want him to leave, but Otto was kind of a big deal. He got downballot support in Chalmers Award voting in 1911, 1912, and 1913. That’s not a guy that a MLB team in the pre-Sabermetric world would have been looking to chase away.

Dan Lee is a Big Hunk of Neufchâtel Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:45 AM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, federal league, history, otto knabe

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Dan Lee is a Big Hunk of Neufchâtel Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:49 AM (#4633040)
A good group of position players on today's Birthday Team. Nobody's going to run on the right fielder.

And why run anywhere when Delta Airlines can get you where you need to go?

C: Walker Cooper
1B: Jason Giambi
2B: Randy Ready
3B: Gene Freese
SS: Reno Bertoia
LF: Jim Busby
CF: Mike Cameron
RF: Jeff Francoeur

SP: Carl Pavano
SP: Jeff Francis
SP: Geremi Gonzalez
SP: Dick Kelley
SP: Brian Boehringer
RP: Bruce Sutter

Manager: Chuck Cottier
Fun Name: Bud Weiser
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:24 AM (#4633101)
Frenchy and Giambino not only share a birthday, they are teammates now!
   3. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:33 AM (#4633110)
Mike Cameron was part of the return the Mariners got for trading away Ken Griffey Jr.

Cameron would accumulate more WAR in his 4 seasons in Seattle (18.3) than Griffey would for the entire rest of his career (11 seasons--13.1 WAR).

The other player the Mariners got in that trade was prospect Brett Tomko, who--according to MLBTR--is interested in making a comeback in his age 40 season (after not playing anywhere in 2012 or 2013), and has several teams interested.
   4. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:35 AM (#4633119)
Randy Ready's 1987 is on the list for all-time great seasons by utility players:

.309/.432/.520 in 124 games, splitting time evenly between second base, third base, and left field.

I remember seeing his name pop up in a Hall of Merit Thread voting on the MVP of the 1987 season, and I had no idea who he was!
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:54 AM (#4633142)
Randy Ready is also known for having the horniest name in MLB history.
   6. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 10:18 AM (#4633174)
Also, wow:

Geremi González died after being struck by lightning in Punta Palma, Zulia on May 25, 2008.


33 years old.
   7. Der-K is now fully whelmed! Posted: January 08, 2014 at 10:21 AM (#4633177)
Don't get me started on Randy Ready, a KPAST legend.

Andruw Jones stays with Rakuten
O's sign scrubby knuckleballers Zach Clark and Eddie Gamboa to minor league deals, they will work with Knucksie

Wonder what the market for Paul Maholm is?
   8. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4633235)
   9. Dan Lee is a Big Hunk of Neufchâtel Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4633242)
Randy Ready is also known for having the horniest name in MLB history.
Randy Johnson and Jack Glasscock demand a recount.
   10. flournoy Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4633262)
The other player the Mariners got in that trade was prospect Brett Tomko


Prospect?
   11. The District Attorney Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:41 AM (#4633271)
Randy Ready is also known for having the horniest name in MLB history.
Ugly Dickshot
   12. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:45 AM (#4633276)
Mike Cameron was part of the return the Mariners got for trading away Ken Griffey Jr.

Cameron would accumulate more WAR in his 4 seasons in Seattle (18.3) than Griffey would for the entire rest of his career (11 seasons--13.1 WAR).


They also got Antonio Perez, who was the player they sent to Tampa with Lou Piniella in exchange for Randy Winn... who had more WAA in his two and a half seasons in Seattle (4.4) than Junior had in the rest of his career (-1.2).
   13. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4633327)
Prospect?
Is my memory of that trade failing me?
   14. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: January 08, 2014 at 12:21 PM (#4633333)
Is my memory of that trade failing me?


Yes. Tomko had finished 7th in the Rookie of the Year voting in 1997 then had two more seasons as a starter before he was traded for Griffey.
   15. Juan Uribe Marching and Chowder Society Posted: January 08, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4633404)
HOF induction stuff is on MLB network and dot com right now.
   16. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 01:46 PM (#4633465)
Walker Cooper's daughter (Sara Cooper) was named Miss Missouri in 1957. 1957 was Walker's last year with the Cardinals; among his teammates that season was second baseman Don Blasingame.

Three years later, Blasingame would marry Sara Cooper. Quipped Walker Cooper: "It's time to quit when you've got a daughter old enough to marry a teammate."
   17. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4633902)
Stupid Hall of Fame talk, taking attention away from the 1957 Miss Missouri vote.
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4633973)
Andruw Jones re-signs with Rakuten for 400 million yen! ($3.8 million)
   19. Steve N Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:39 PM (#4633981)
The Phillies seem to have gotten rid of Chris Wheeler and Gary Matthews as announcers. I have no strong opinion of Wheeler but I liked Matthews. A sort of weird highly pitched voice but seemed to know what he was talking about and was able to communicate it.
   20. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4634050)
Andruw Jones re-signs with Rakuten for 400 million yen! ($3.8 million)
536 career professional home runs and counting!
   21. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:42 PM (#4634054)
Also, to reiterate this extremely important piece of news:

Cesar Izturis now joins Steve Lyons, Whitey Lockman, Allie Reynolds, Sam "Toothpick" Jones, and a few others, on the list of players who've been traded straight-up for a Hall of Famer.
   22. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:49 PM (#4634061)
And Kent Mercker!
   23. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4634085)
This would make for a pretty good trivia question.

Complete list of trades of one Hall of Famer for another Hall of Famer, straight-up:

1. February 28, 1893. Cleveland Spiders trade (young) George Davis to the New York Giants for (a mostly washed-up) Buck Ewing.

2. December 15, 1900. Cincinnati Reds trade Amos Rusie to the New York Giants for Christy Mathewson. (Mathewson was 19. Amos Rusie would only pitch 3 more games in his career.)

3. February 9, 1927. New York Giants trade George "High Pockets" Kelly to the Cincinnati Reds for Edd Roush. (Both players were just about done.)

4. March 17, 1969. Atlanta Braves trade Joe Torre to the St. Louis Cardinals for Orlando Cepeda. (Cepeda was almost done, but would have a few moderately effective years in Atlanta. Torre was just 27, and would have several great seasons--including winning the MVP Award in 1971--with St. Louis).

We can almost include a few more:

(5). December 11, 1931. Chicago Cubs trade Hack Wilson (and Bud Teachout) to the St. Louis Cardinals for Burleigh Grimes. (Teachout was a throw-in--he'd only pitch 1 inning the rest of his career. Burleigh Grimes was just about done. The Cardinals immediately sold Hack Wilson to the Brooklyn Dodgers, where he had a few more decent but injury-plagued seasons before retiring.

(6). November 22, 1920. An even bigger stretch! The Philadelphia Phillies trade Eppa Rixey to the Cincinnati Reds for Greasy Neale and Jimmy Ring. (It's a cheat--Greasy Neale is in the pro football Hall of Fame!)

(7). June 7, 1920. The Phillies trade Dave Bancroft to the New York Giants for Art Fletcher (and cash). (Bancroft was just beginning his career, while Fletcher was ending his. Bancroft is the only one in the Hall of Fame, though Fletcher was just as good a player as Bancroft.)

   24. The District Attorney Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:27 PM (#4634124)
I would include the swap of Rogers Hornsby for Frankie Frisch and Jimmy Ring in the latter category. Ring wasn't a total non-entity, but he wasn't that great either; was coming off an 81 ERA+ season; and as it turned out, had only 209 innings of 67 ERA+ left in him.
   25. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:29 PM (#4634127)
#24--Oh, duh. I knew I'd come across one more that was close, but couldn't remember which one it was. Thanks!
   26. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:14 PM (#4634165)
Other trades from the past few years or so that have at least a 0.00001% chance of being a Hall of Famer-for-Hall of Famer, straight-up:

1) Jan 14, 2008: St. Louis Cardinals trade Scott Rolen to the Toronto Blue Jays for Troy Glaus

2) November 6, 2009: Minnesota Twins trade Carlos Gomez to the Milwaukee Brewers for J.J. Hardy

3) July 28, 2011: New York Mets trade Carlos Beltran to the San Francisco Giants for Zack Wheeler

4) November 20, 2013: Texas Rangers trade Ian Kinsler to the Detroit Tigers for Prince Fielder
   27. The District Attorney Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:25 PM (#4634174)
The idea that Rogers Hornsby could be traded for Frankie Frisch feels so crazy. I'm reminded me of the reaction to the Roberto Alomar/Joe Carter for Fred McGriff/Tony Fernandez trade. Everyone was saying "Nowadays, if a star is traded, it's for prospects! You never see a star-for-star deal like this anymore! Appreciate this trade, because you may never see its like again!" And I remember thinking, "Bill James taught me that when people say things like that, they're usually wrong."

But this time, they weren't wrong. That deal remains an outlier. Hell, Kinsler for Fielder may be the closest thing since, for all I know.
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:40 PM (#4634184)
Jason Grimsley, Larry Andersen, and Tom Brunansky could also someday join the list.
   29. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:17 PM (#4634197)
December 15, 1900. Cincinnati Reds trade Amos Rusie to the New York Giants for Christy Mathewson. (Mathewson was 19. Amos Rusie would only pitch 3 more games in his career.)


Did this trade happen on The Bizarro World?
   30. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:19 PM (#4634199)
29--Did this trade happen on The Bizarro World?

The Philadelphia Athletics have won the 1905 World Series!!
   31. Misirlou is too lofty, and grabs up all the light Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:48 PM (#4634216)
Cesar Izturis now joins Steve Lyons, Whitey Lockman, Allie Reynolds, Sam "Toothpick" Jones, and a few others, on the list of players who've been traded straight-up for a Hall of Famer.


Doyle Alexander will join them eventually.
   32. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:04 AM (#4634279)
31-- And David Freese has a tiny tiny tiny chance of joining them, too! (And even later: Kyle Farnsworth.)

(Also, there's a shot we could see two players elected to the Hall of Fame in the same year who were once traded for each other {among others}: Gary Sheffield and Trevor Hoffman!)
   33. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 09, 2014 at 01:24 AM (#4634311)
Are we saying Kent Mercker (traded for Eddie Murray) has no chance with the Veterans Committee? He pitched in the NLCS or ALCS in five different seasons! 3.63 ERA in 16 games! And one of his top comps is Bruce Ruffin, who I always used to confuse with Bruce Sutter.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
cardsfanboy
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - July 2015
(549 - 7:25am, Jul 06)
Last: i'm only STEAGLES when it's complicated

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(1003 - 6:43am, Jul 06)
Last: NJ in DC (Now with Wife!)

NewsblogOTP - July 2015: Winning the Political Game: Politics is More Like Baseball Than Football
(726 - 5:55am, Jul 06)
Last: The Id of SugarBear Blanks

NewsblogScioscia Reigns and Dipoto Resigns: What the Heck Is Going on With the Angels? «
(21 - 4:07am, Jul 06)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogCharges pending in alleged St. Louis Cardinals computer intrusion of Houston Astros - CNNPolitics.com
(38 - 3:29am, Jul 06)
Last: Dan The Mediocre

NewsblogTrevor Bauer imitates teammates batting stances during an at-bat.
(11 - 2:16am, Jul 06)
Last: AuntBea

NewsblogSunday Notes: Angels Angst, Astros, Colabello, more | FanGraphs Baseball
(1 - 2:10am, Jul 06)
Last: Cooper Nielson

NewsblogHardball’s winners and losers at halfway point of MLB season | New York Post
(20 - 1:21am, Jul 06)
Last: bbmck

NewsblogOT: Soccer June 2015
(998 - 1:05am, Jul 06)
Last: villainx

Newsblog538: Baseball's Kids Are All Right
(15 - 1:03am, Jul 06)
Last: escabeche

NewsblogTigers place Miggy on DL with calf strain | MLB.com
(17 - 1:01am, Jul 06)
Last: Best Dressed Chicken in Town

NewsblogCubs, Theo Epstein won't necessarily be buyers at trade deadline - Chicago Tribune
(29 - 12:36am, Jul 06)
Last: Sonny Gray's Got a Yakker for Your Culo

NewsblogRangers notes: Hamilton may go back on disabled list | The Star Telegram
(6 - 11:39pm, Jul 05)
Last: puck

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 7-5-2015
(106 - 11:29pm, Jul 05)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogCorbin completes 'long road' back to Majors | dbacks.com
(1 - 10:52pm, Jul 05)
Last: shoewizard

Page rendered in 0.3360 seconds
48 querie(s) executed