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Wednesday, February 12, 2014

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-12-2014

Pittsburgh Press, February 12, 1914:

...organized baseball was far from out of the woods today as a result of the muss kicked up by [Cubs owner] Charles Webb Murphy in firing Johnny Evers of the Chicago Cubs.
...
[National League] President Tener showed his size yesterday in thoroughly “spanking” Murphy, but the damage had been done, and reports today were that the American league was prepared to bring all possible pressure to bear on Tener to see that Murphy is eliminated.
...
How Murphy could be forced to step down as owner of the Cubs is not apparent now, but reports from the American league meeting declared the magnates there favored urging the elimination of Murphy on Gov. Tener.
...
[The American League owners believe] that the Evers episode here has given the Federals another big boost, and that it is now up to the National league to show a clean hand.

Murphy’s response:

“They’ve got a fat chance of putting me out of organized baseball…I own the Chicago club and will do what I please with it.”
...
Asked what he will do if a real attempt is made to get him out, Murphy said: “That’s easy. I’d put it in the hands of my lawyer. They can’t confiscate private property, you know.

*Marge Schott throws chair*

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 12, 2014 at 10:16 AM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, johnny evers

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   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 12, 2014 at 10:18 AM (#4655349)
Really good outfield on today's Birthday Team, as well as a couple solid starting pitchers. Awful GM, though.

C: Joe Garagiola
1B: Earl Sheely
2B: Mike McGeary
3B: Lenny Randle
SS: Chick Fulmer
LF: Chick Hafey
CF: Chet Lemon
RF: Dom DiMaggio

SP: Don Wilson
SP: Pat Dobson
SP: Monk Dubiel
SP: Jerry Walker
SP: Tim Redding
RP: Don Stanhouse

Manager: Pants Rowland
General Manager: Cam Bonifay
Play-By-Play: Jim Durham
   2. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 12, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4655361)
Smitty is going to hate the manager.
   3. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 12, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4655370)
Smitty is going to hate the manager.


He's a big fan of the skipper of the May 7 team.
   4. BDC Posted: February 12, 2014 at 10:47 AM (#4655371)
Happy 88th birthday to Joe Garagiola!

One of my old dice games included Earl Sheely as backup to Joe Kuhel on an all-time White Sox team. He was a PCL star who had a short, though very creditable, major-league career in the middle of that stardom. A .300 hitter who got on base a lot and was a good fielder at first, though he hit for a lot more power in various Coast venues than he did in old Comiskey Park.
   5. Good cripple hitter Posted: February 12, 2014 at 10:59 AM (#4655378)
“They’ve got a fat chance of putting me out of organized baseball…I own the Chicago club and will do what I please with it.”
...
Asked what he will do if a real attempt is made to get him out, Murphy said: “That’s easy. I’d put it in the hands of my lawyer. They can’t confiscate private property, you know.


I didn't remember reading about this, so I looked ahead to see what happened. He sold the team little more than one week after this quote. His SABR Bio includes his response to the claim that he was forced out of baseball:

Despite that fact I read every once in a while that I was forced out of baseball--knocked down the back steps, as it were, and kicked into the yards behind. That is simply camouflage. It is true that the Chief Executive of the National League at that time was not 'crazy' about me and that he had called a meeting to have me quartered and boiled in oil, or shot at sunrise, I don't know which. He asked me to attend the meeting and I declined to do so. I was not only ill, but thinking of how much I would likely lose in the impending Federal League war--money that I had worked hard for. Before the meeting could be held, however, I sold out to Mr. Charles P. Taft and without force, but for what every other thing of value is obtained--a price. Imagine a man being forced to take $500,000 for a baseball franchise, with a war on and money being sunk by everybody concerned in large gobs. One or two baseball politicians shouted with glee over my retirement, but I think events have since shown that the laughing was all on my side, because I got out at the psychological moment."


the whole bio is worth a read, Murphy was a fascinating figure in early baseball.
   6. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4655389)
On the "Best Shape of His Life" front, one of the local news stations had their young sportsguys work out with Ryan Howard yesterday. Howard looked almost ripped. Supposedly lost 25 lbs -- it looked it.
   7. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:11 AM (#4655392)
By WAR, the third worst outfielder on today's birthday team is the only one in the Hall of Fame.
   8. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:11 AM (#4655393)
On the "Best Shape of His Life" front, one of the local news stations had their young sportsguys work out with Ryan Howard yesterday. Howard looked almost ripped. Supposedly lost 25 lbs -- it looked it.
Jared strikes again.
   9. Mike Emeigh Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4655398)
I'd probably flip-flop Lemon and "better than his brother Joe" position-wise. Lemon played RF at the end of his career; after a few games there as a young player Dominic D played CF exclusively.

-- MWE
   10. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4655399)
Jose Valverde to the Mets on a minor league deal
   11. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:27 AM (#4655409)
Is there a college baseball thread? Can't find one so I will ask here. Who should I look for on North Carolina and Florida State? Any reason to check out Maryland, Pittsburgh, or Wake Forest?
   12. just plain joe Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:27 AM (#4655410)
Really good outfield on today's Birthday Team, as well as a couple solid starting pitchers. Awful GM, though.


Monk Dubiel would be a fairly solid third starter; he put up reasonable numbers while playing for some pretty bad teams. He did have a short career though, only 6-7 years in the majors, IIRC.
   13. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4655414)
And, really, as a Birthday League fifth starter, Tim Redding is pretty good. Career ERA+ of 87 and his cosmetic stats make him look worse than he really was because he pitched during the Sillyball era.
   14. JJ1986 Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4655415)
Is there a college baseball thread? Can't find one so I will ask here.


I'm going to piggyback on this. How do college rotations work? Does Rodon just pitch every Friday? I'm going to be in Raleigh for a weekend, but the Friday game is too early in the afternoon.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 11:59 AM (#4655439)
How do college rotations work? Does Rodon just pitch every Friday?


Yes, typically your Friday pitcher is your ace pitcher. IIRC, many programs will pitch their #2 on Sundays, because Saturday is usually a pair of 7 inning games? I'm not sure how each program handles the midweek games, when I followed Ohio State IIRC it was usually a back of the rotation guy, or a young freshman or soph they were trying to break in. It also depended on how good the mid-week opponent was.
   16. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4655452)
Trivia:

What team has had the most 40 year olds on their roster? They had six! HINT: Expansion era.

Also, what team had the most teenagers on their roster? They had nine! HINT: Also, expansion era.
   17. BDC Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4655463)
the most 40 year olds on their roster?

I guessed the 1983 Phillies, a notoriously creaky group. For most of the season, though, they had just three: Ron Reed, Tony Perez, and Pete Rose. Bill Robinson is listed as 40 on their B-Ref page, but played only a few games for them while he was still 39 before being released and then turning 40. Joe Morgan turned 40 late that season.

IOW a B-Ref search will give you four, which was true in September, but it's not quite the same four guys because of the details of "baseball age" …

and it's not the right answer :)
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4655470)
The Wheeze Kids! Yea, that probably would have been my first guess too.

The old team was very competitive.

The young team was not competitive.
   19. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4655475)
Was the young team the Colt 45's, the year that Staub and Morgan came up? (Whichever year that is.)
   20. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM (#4655476)
The other Bill Russell is 80 today. Well, he's "the other Bill Russell" as far as baseball is concerned and "the Bill Russell" for everything else.
   21. vern_fuller_brushback Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4655479)
Smitty is going to hate the manager.


And the third baseman would beat him up for him.
   22. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:50 PM (#4655483)
Dan Lee FTW. Yes, its the '63 Colt .45's with nine teenagers - Dave Adlesh, Jay Dahl, Brock Davis, Sonny Jackson, Joe Morgan, John Paciorek, Rusty Staub, Glenn Vaughan, and Chris Zachary. Staub and Zachary are the only ones that got much playing time. The team had a number of 21-22 year old as well. Very young! They lost 96 games.

The '44 Dodgers (Ralph Branca, Cal McLish, Gene Mauch among others) are second with 8. The 1914 A's are next with 7 - and they won the pennant (although the only teenager to really contribute was Rube Bressler).

TRIVIA PLUS:
In the divisional era, only nine teams have even had a pair of teenagers on the club. Can you name them? (HINT: three of them were in 1969)
   23. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:53 PM (#4655489)
Trivia:

What team has had the most 40 year olds on their roster? They had six! HINT: Expansion era.

Also, what team had the most teenagers on their roster? They had nine! HINT: Also, expansion era.

Wow. I looked these exact two questions up yesterday for a proposed Lounge Trivia question, but couldn't figure out a great way to word it.

Out of respect for my fellow triviots, I will bow out.
   24. AndrewJ Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:56 PM (#4655490)
   25. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM (#4655494)
Old team 1980 Yankees?
   26. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4655506)
Burnett - 1/16. Hmmm.
   27. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:15 PM (#4655510)
It feels weird saying a guy who's two years younger than me is old, but I'm beginning to suspect the Phillies are going to defray some of these salaries with a new multi-million dollar walker/powerchair sponsorship.
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:17 PM (#4655515)
Old team 1980 Yankees?


They only had Jim Kaat and Gaylord Perry.
   29. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:20 PM (#4655520)
They only had Jim Kaat and Gaylord Perry.


I see that. I figured Tiant and John, and then maybe 2 cameos.

For teens, I go with early 70's Brewers, when Yount was still a teen. Not sure of the year(s).
   30. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:23 PM (#4655523)
The '74 Brewers is correct - Robin Yount and Roger Miller.
   31. Kiko Sakata Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:27 PM (#4655529)
Did one of the Blue Jays World Series winners maybe have that many 40 year olds ('93 if I had to pick one, I guess)? They seemed to have a lot of guys whose better days were behind them (but still pretty good) - Molitor, Winfield, Henderson, Morris.
   32. Kiko Sakata Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4655536)
Alternate guess on the old team: '95 Indians. Same thing, a lot of pretty good guys who'd been around forever - Murray, Winfield (again), Dennis Martinez.
   33. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:31 PM (#4655540)
The '92 Jays had one 40 year old - Dave Winfield. The oldest player on the '93 Jays was 38 year old Jack Morris. They had a lot of old vets, but not many 40 year olds.
   34. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 01:32 PM (#4655541)
The '95 Indians had Martinez and Winfield, but Murray was "only" 39, Tony Pena was 38, and Bud Black was 38.

The old team was competitive, but did not make the playoffs.
   35. esseff Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4655571)
The Giants once had post-40 Bonds, Finley and Moises Alou in the outfield, but I only see one other 40-year-old on the '06 team, Fassero, plus a 39-year-old Vizquel. For the key roles those guys had, that was a really old team.
   36. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4655574)
The '74 Brewers is correct - Robin Yount and Roger Miller.

Dang me!
   37. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:08 PM (#4655577)
The Wheeze Kids also had Carlton and McGraw turning 39 during that calendar year, albeit they were age 38ers.
   38. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:13 PM (#4655583)
Roger Miller was known as "King of the Road" because he held the opponents to a .200 batting average in his away appearance. He was baseball 19, but his debut was after his 20th birthday. He'd been a former major leaguer for 18 1/2 years when he died at age 38.
   39. AndrewJ Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:25 PM (#4655597)
Dang me.
   40. JJ1986 Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:36 PM (#4655616)
Dodgers sign Erisbel Arruebarruena, who immediately becomes the active player with the most difficult name to spell without looking it up.
   41. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4655622)
Additional hints: The old team was in the last ten years.

The pairs of teenage teammates in the divisional era, chronologically, starting in 1969:

1. 8-time All-Star and future GM, along with a pitcher that never did much.
2. Borderline HOF player and borderline HOF manager
3. Couple of scrubs that never did much of anything, but got to play on a playoff team their first season.
4. One of these teens started just one MLB game in his career, but the other once had a 27 HR season and is one of the only players to hit 2 pinch-hit grand slams in the same season.
5. These teens got to play with 3 HOFers and were managed by a HOFer
6. '74 Brewers - Roger Miller and Robin Yount
7. This pair of pitchers were both first round picks, but only one would have a long career (140+ wins) bouncing around the league
8. This injury plagued pair both enjoyed significant careers. The pitcher tossed a no-no, while the hitter won two MVPs.
9. This pair will likely be teammates this year.

I don't really expect anyone to get the scrubs.
   42. esseff Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:47 PM (#4655635)
#7 is Mike Morgan and Tim Conroy (who always makes me think Tim Conway).
   43. Karl from NY Posted: February 12, 2014 at 02:50 PM (#4655639)
Additional hints: The old team was in the last ten years.

Mariners with Griffey, Edgar, and Moyer?
   44. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:00 PM (#4655651)
8. This injury plagued pair both enjoyed significant careers. The pitcher tossed a no-no, while the hitter won two MVPs.
Juan Gonzalez and Wilson Alvarez?
   45. JJ1986 Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4655654)
9. Manny Machado and Dylan Bundy?
   46. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:08 PM (#4655665)
2. Borderline HOF player and borderline HOF manager
I cheated on that one, but the team also had two 20-year-old borderline HOF players if you use a broad border.
   47. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:09 PM (#4655667)
Morgan and Conroy is correct.
Juan Gone and Wilson Alvarez is correct
Machado and Bundy is correct.

The Mariners are not the oldie olderson team.
   48. SG Posted: February 12, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4655677)
Jeter to retire after 2014. Fire up the farewell tour!
   49. WahooSam Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4655774)
These teens got to play with 3 HOFers and were managed by a HOFer

Bill Buckner and Bobby Valentine played with Drysdale, Bunning and Sutton, and were managed by Alston
   50. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4655779)
Buckner and Valentine are correct, but I had them as the "borderline HOF player and borderline HOF manager."

I have another pair as the ones that played with 3 HOFers and managed by a HOFer (as a player).
   51. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:46 PM (#4655796)
I have another pair as the ones that played with 3 HOFers and managed by a HOFer (as a player).


I can't think of who the teenagers might be, but the 1985 Yankees fit the bill: Henderson, Winfield, Niekro, managed by Yogi.
   52. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 04:48 PM (#4655799)
I can't think of who the teenagers might be, but the 1985 Yankees fit the bill: Henderson, Winfield, Niekro, managed by Yogi.


That's a good guess, but not correct. Niekro is one of the HOFers though. Both teenagers had 3-6 year careers as semi-regulars.
   53. WahooSam Posted: February 12, 2014 at 05:32 PM (#4655831)
Well obviously Braves, before 1974, so I see that Cepeda played with Aaron and Niekro, so that gives us Rod Gilbreath and Rowland Office
   54. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 12, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4655841)
Correct!

The full list is:

1969 Cardinals - Ted Simmons and Santiago Guzman
1969 Dodgers - Bill Buckner and Bobby Valentin
1969 Braves - Jim Breazeale and Mike McQueen (would have been stunned if anyone got that)
1971 Padres - Jay Franklin and Mike Ivie
1972 Braves - Rod Gilbreath and Rowland Office
1974 Brewers - Robin Yount and Roger Miller
1978 A's - Mike Morgan and Tim Conroy
1989 Rangers - Wilson Alvarez and Juan Gonzalez
2012 Orioles - Dylan Bundy and Manny Machdo

And the team with the most 40 year olds was the 2007 Mets. They had Julio Franco, Jeff Conine, Moises Alou, Sandy Alomar Jr., Tom Glavine, and Orlando Hernandez.
   55. JJ1986 Posted: February 12, 2014 at 06:35 PM (#4655875)
James McDonald's contract with the Cubs is reportedly a major league deal. Very surprised.

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