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Wednesday, February 26, 2014

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-26-2014

The race to sign Big Six is heating up.

Milwaukee Sentinel, February 26, 1914:

Christy Mathewson, the Giant star pitcher, who has been offered the berth of manager of the Federal league Brooklyn club left [Los Angeles] on Wednesday for Marlin Springs, Tex., the spring training camp of the New York Giants.

He carried with him his unsigned contract to play with the Giants and while reiterating his intention to seriously consider the Federal offer, declared he was confident of coming to terms with the New York national league team.

Federal League president James Gilmore:

“We have not offered Mathewson any stipulated amount…Our telegram sent to him early on Tuesday morning read: “Would you consider a proposition to manage the non-Sunday playing Brooklyn Federal league at your terms?”...We are willing to pay Mathewson more money than he probably considers possible.

Giants secretary John Foster:

Mathewson has been sent a blank contract to fill in and the New York club is willing to sign him for life.

According to one account, the Feds offered Mathewson $65,000 for three years, which (in 1914) was a ludicrously huge offer. Ty Cobb, in his prime, made $11,333 the year before.

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:08 AM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: christy mathewson, dugout, federal league, history

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   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:11 AM (#4662657)
One heck of a starting rotation on today's Birthday Team. Center field is a bit of a problem, though. Darrell Miller's a catcher who made eight appearances in CF and is the third-best athlete among the Miller siblings.

C: Johnny Blanchard
1B: J.T. Snow
2B: Dustin Ackley
3B: Kelly Gruber
SS: David Howard
LF: Danny Gardella
CF: Darrell Miller
RF: Mark DeRosa

SP: Pete Alexander
SP: Preacher Roe
SP: Rip Collins
SP: Don Lee
SP: Josh Towers
RP: Ron Negray

Heisman Winner: Vic Janowicz
Not that one: Jose Reyes, Francisco Rodriguez
   2. Chris Fluit Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:21 AM (#4662659)
Ackley has played 50 games in CF so far. You can move him to the OF if you have a decent option at second.
   3. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:25 AM (#4662660)
Ackley has played 50 games in CF so far. You can move him to the OF if you have a decent option at second.


DeRosa. Or if you want to keep him in the OF, Jack Brohamer
   4. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:34 AM (#4662663)
Or if you want an Hall of Fame outfielder who hit 567 home runs, you can stick Hiromitsu Kadota out there. He's not really a centerfielder, though, being a right fielder at the start of his career, and almost exclusively a DH for the latter half. But with a line of .289/.379/.529, 14 All-Star appearances, three homer crowns, and an MVP, you can afford to lose a little defense.
   5. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:38 AM (#4662665)
Because someone asked for it yesterday, the all-Sagittarius team:

C: Johnny Bench
1B: Cecil Cooper
2B: Craig Biggio
3B: Deacon White
SS: Jay Bell
LF: Ty Cobb
CF: Joe DiMaggio
RF: Larry Walker

SP: Lefty Gomez
SP: Mike Mussina
SP: Old Hoss Radbourn
SP: Fergie Jenkins
SP: Luis Tiant
P: Mariano Rivera
P: Lee Smith
P: Tom Henke
P: Joe Nathan
P: Jonathan Papelbon
   6. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 26, 2014 at 09:39 AM (#4662666)
Excellent suggestions, guys. I had forgotten about Ackley's playing time in CF.
   7. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4662707)
P Shairon Martis has signed with the Uni-President 7-Eleven Lions, a Taiwan team. I love that name.
   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4662749)
TRIVIA: There have been six pairs of teammates to collect 20 saves each on the same team. Can you name the dynamic duos? All have been done in the expansion era.

   9. JJ1986 Posted: February 26, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4662753)
McDowell and Orosco
Charlton and Dibble
Myers and Dibble
   10. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 26, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4662759)
John Rocker and Kerry Ligtenberg
John Rocker and Mark Wohlers
John Wetteland and Mariano Rivera

10-15 years ago there was a vogue for making ill-conceived deadline trades for proven closers, so that probably accounts for some of the pairs of teammates. Matt Mantei and some other guy?
   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 11:52 AM (#4662762)
Roger McDowell and Jesse Orosco in 1986 are correct.

Norm Charlton and Rob Dibble in 1992 are correct.

The others are not. No Mantei either.

10-15 years ago there was a vogue for making ill-conceived deadline trades for proven closers, so that probably accounts for some of the pairs of teammates.


That is really sound reasoning, but it surprisingly doesn't apply to any of these pairs.

Only one of the pairs has happened since Charlton/Dibble.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: February 26, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4662764)
The Braves had two closers a few years ago, Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano maybe?
   13. BDC Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4662771)
Hmmn. I guessed Rollie Fingers and Darold Knowles (way wrong), some combination of Reed, McGraw or Garber for the '70s Phillies (closer but wrong) and then Ted Abernathy and Tom Burgmeier for KC in 1971 (very close, but wrong).
   14. Good cripple hitter Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:06 PM (#4662774)
Hoyt Wilhelm and Eddie Fisher.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:07 PM (#4662777)
One pair includes a HOFer
One involved a guy who was an All-Star the year before, and the other guy was an All-Star the year they both saved 20.
One involved a pair of guys who each led the league in saves - 7 years apart.
The most recent pair involves two guys I think of as middle relievers. They easily have the fewest combined career saves out of any pair and I don't see them adding to that total much.
   16. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:08 PM (#4662779)
Wilhelm and Fisher are correct - 1965 with the White Sox. Wilhelm is the HOFer.
   17. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:10 PM (#4662784)
Greg Minton and Gary Lavelle
Joe Sambito and Dave Smith
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4662788)
Minton and Lavelle are correct! Minton was an All-Star in 1982, Lavelle was an All-Star in 1983, when they both saved 20 games.

I'm surprised the two league leaders haven't been mentioned, they were part of a pretty awesome bullpen.
   19. Good cripple hitter Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4662792)
I just realized that as a Jays fan, I'm contractually obligated to throw out Tom Henke and Duane Ward as a guess.
   20. Kiko Sakata Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:35 PM (#4662812)
Tippy Martinez and Tim Stoddard (although I don't remember either being an All-Star or leading the league in saves)?

More recently, possibly Dustin Hermanson and Bobby Jenks for the '05 White Sox? They cycled through three closers that year - I remember Hermanson kind of came out of nowhere, was great, then got hurt, so they pulled Jenks out of nowhere and he did great, and they won the damn World Series.
   21. WahooSam Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:40 PM (#4662816)
Gotta be Henke/Ward
   22. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:47 PM (#4662820)
Henke and Ward is correct! 1991. Henke led the league in saves in 1987, Ward led the league in 1993.

Hermanson and Jenks is incorrect.
   23. The District Attorney Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:54 PM (#4662825)
I feel like Steve Cishek might have split the Marlins' closer job in '12 with another no-name.

Goose Gossage/Sparky Lyle? (probably not) (EDIT: since the HOFer was already guessed, definitely not)
   24. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:56 PM (#4662828)
The last pair happened in 2010. Both are still active. One has pitched for seven clubs, the other, for six. The team they closed for is one of the few on this list with a losing record.
   25. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 26, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4662829)
The most recent pair involves two guys I think of as middle relievers. They easily have the fewest combined career saves out of any pair and I don't see them adding to that total much.


So I just used P-I to find the answer, and I doubt anyone but a fan of that team is going to get the answer.
   26. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 26, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4662839)
Ok. Losing record in 2010. The Indians? Rafael Betancourt and... Kerry Wood? Was that the year he was on the Indians?
   27. Karl from NY Posted: February 26, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4662935)
Mets, was 2010 the year Francisco Rodriguez got hurt midyear in the assault case? Can't remember who his replacement was, Bobby Parnell or Pedro Feliciano?
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 02:48 PM (#4662950)
No and no. Think "shittier."
   29. dr. scott Posted: February 26, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4662959)
My first thoughts were the 2012 Giants and As with Cassilla/Romo and Balfour/Cook. Interestingly they were both wrong by nearly the same numbers. Cassilla/Romo were 25/14 and Balfour/Cook were 24/14.
   30. beefshower Posted: February 26, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4662963)
As a fantasy player who cycles through several closers a year in pursuit of cheap saves I seem to remember picking up Brandon Lyon late in a season when he was pitching for the Astros after he took over as closer and getting about 20+ saves from him in a last ditch attempt to win my roto league. So I'm guessing the answer is Brandon Lyon and whoever was crappy enough to lose his job to Brandon Lyon on the 2010 Astros.
   31. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 03:03 PM (#4662972)
That's right! Brandon Lyon and Matt Lindstrom for thet 2010 Astros! Immortals in their own minds.
   32. Nasty Nate Posted: February 26, 2014 at 03:06 PM (#4662977)
Lindstrom was the other guy on that Astros team. (I also only remember because of fantasy baseball).
   33. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 26, 2014 at 03:12 PM (#4662988)
2010 Indians: Chris Perez (23), Kerry Wood (8)
1999 Dbacks: Matt Mantei (22), Gregg Olson (14)

Close enough.
   34. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 03:17 PM (#4662998)
Seventeen teams have had a trio of 10+ save guys on the same team. The most recent were the 2005 D'Backs (Brian Bruney/Brandon Lyon again!/Jose Valverde) and Braves (Professor Farnsworth/Danny Kolb/Chris Reitsma)

The White Sox have done it four times:
1968 (Wilbur Wood/Hoyt Wilhelm/Bob Locker)
1992 (Roberto Hernandez/Scott Radinsky/Bobby Thigpen)
2002 (Keith Foulke/Damaso Marte/Antonio Osuna)
2003 (Tom Gordon/Billy Koch/Damaso Marte)

Closer is a fluid position in Chicago.
   35. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 26, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4663005)
Speaking of Rafael Betancourt, he and Rex Brothers had 16+ last year for… I bet some people won't know what team those two guys are on.
   36. Nasty Nate Posted: February 26, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4663023)
Williamson and Graves almost each had 20 for the Reds one year.
   37. esseff Posted: February 26, 2014 at 07:02 PM (#4663179)
   38. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 26, 2014 at 10:07 PM (#4663261)
David Samson voted off Survivor in 1st episode, blames his tribe, says he's luckiest person in the world. Lou Gehrig rolls over.
   39. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 26, 2014 at 10:34 PM (#4663274)
David Samson voted off Survivor in 1st episode


I knew he'd come up short.
   40. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 27, 2014 at 12:44 AM (#4663312)
(Pours out some Labatt's, pretends to kick a cat)

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