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Monday, February 26, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-26-2018

Washington Times, February 26, 1918:

“Irish” Meusel, the young outfielder once with the Griffmen and now on the reserve list of the Philadelphia Nationals, is due to receive his third contract in a day or so. He’s in the contract-receiving business.

The first contract he got from Colonel Baker angered him because of the low salary mentioned and he threw it away. Back again went another contract, calling for the same old figured. Meusel tore that up and mailed the pieces to the classical leader of the Alexanderless Phillies.

Now goes another little contract, containing the identical figured mentioned in the other two. Maybe Meusel will send it back by freight collect this time.

Meusel eventually became a star, but at this point he was approaching his 25th birthday, hadn’t appeared in a big league game since 1914, and had zero career hits. Irish didn’t have a ton of leverage here.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 26, 2018 at 09:37 AM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 26, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5630497)
A good Birthday Team today, but it would be better if it had the other Jose Reyes and the other Francisco Rodriguez. The ace starter is pretty decent.

C: Johnny Blanchard (1.52 WAR)
1B: J.T. Snow (11.02 WAR)
2B: Jack Brohamer (5.66 WAR)
3B: Kelly Gruber (16.39 WAR)
SS: David Howard (2.67 WAR)
LF: Danny Gardella (2.19 WAR)
CF: Dustin Ackley (8.07 WAR)
RF: Mark DeRosa (9.78 WAR)

SP: Pete Alexander (120.04 WAR)
SP: Preacher Roe (30.13 WAR)
SP: Rip Collins (16.28 WAR)
SP: Don Lee (7.52 WAR)
SP: Josh Towers (2.15 WAR)
RP: Hector Rondon (4.2 WAR)

Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame outfielder, probably the best OF born on February 26: Hiromitsu Kadota
Heisman Trophy winner: Vic Janowicz (-1.29 WAR)
Somehow pitched for Team USA in the 2006 WBC: Gary Majewski (-0.11 WAR)
Not that one: Francisco Rodriguez (0.35 WAR)
Not that one: Jose Reyes (-0.05 WAR)
   2. Born1951 Posted: February 26, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5630520)
From 1988-2017, 3 players had 200 or more career PA end on 3-0 counts without putting the ball in play (walking every time). The 3rd most was 213 by J.D. Drew, 2nd most was 223 by Jason Kendall. Can anyone name the leader in this category, who had 246 such PA. On the flip side, the players who put the ball in play the most times on 3-0 counts were Fred McGriff (125), Frank Thomas (108), and Albert Pujols (95).
   3. Nasty Nate Posted: February 26, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5630522)
I don't think i understand that trivia question. Do IBBs not count?
   4. dlf Posted: February 26, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5630529)
I misread the question in #2, but it had me look at Mr. Bonds again. In his 12606 PA career, he went to 3-0 more than 10% of the times. On the 3-0 count, he was 22 for 56 with 10 homers and seven doubles mixed in to the 22 hits. He also took ball four 1030 times and ended up with a 2020 OPS on that count. He also had 395 PAs that went beyond 3-0 where he was 73 for 194 (.376 BA) with 20 HRs, a triple, and 15 doubles (.773 SLG) and 199 walks (roughly .692 OBA - I ignored HBP and sacs).
   5. crict Posted: February 26, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5630546)
Blanchard is a common name in Quebec, and I expected Johnny to have french-canadian roots, but it seems like his ancestor came from England to Rhode Island in the 17th century. Probably a link to France in pre-colonial time, but not link to Quebec.
   6. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 26, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5630557)
I'm surprised to see Johnny Blanchard finish with just a WAR and a half, since he had that huge year off the bench for the 1961 Yanks, hitting .305 with 21 homers in just 243 ABs. Turns out that was worth 2.6 WAR, and the rest of his career was worth -1.1.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: February 26, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5630562)
I don't think i understand that question. Do IBBs not count?


It's the guys with the most PAs who never swung at a 3-0 pitch.

I'll guess Pat Burrell (I'm almost certainly wrong, but it seems to me I heard the answer once before, and it seems it was a Pat Burrell kind of player, limited righthanded slugger.

   8. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5630564)
Seems like Tony Gwynn is the kind of hitter who wouldn't swing at a 3-0 pitch. I know he didn't walk a ton, but he was so freakin' smart. (Also, it still makes me sad to remember he's gone.)
   9. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5630565)
It's the guys with the most PAs who never swung at a 3-0 pitch.


Well, guys who never put a 3-0 pitch in play anyway. They could hve swung and missed, or hit a foul.
   10. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5630566)
Burrell put 25 in play on 3-0. I checked Bobby Abreu and he is close, 12 balls in play vs 376 walks.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5630570)
Well, guys who never put a 3-0 pitch in play anyway. They could hve swung and missed, or hit a foul.


True, but I suppose if you reach 246 PA without ever putting it in play, you probably just take on 3-0 as a rule.
   12. Nasty Nate Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5630571)
I knew he didn't play long enough, but I thought of Nick Johnson. Only 1 in 123 PAs.
   13. Nasty Nate Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5630572)
A swing and a miss or foul would mean that the PA did not end on the 3-0 pitch.
   14. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5630574)
A swing and a miss would mean that the PA did not end on the 3-0 pitch.


I think you are misreading the question. It's not that every 3-0 count ended in a walk. It's that of the PAs that ended on the 3-0 count, all were walks. If it were as you describe, Drew would have 0 PAs after 3-0, but he in fact had 449, meaning that he swung and missed, hit a foul, of took a called strike on 3-0 449 times.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5630575)

Nevermind, I'll let you guys sort it out.
   16. JJ1986 Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:26 PM (#5630577)
I'm gonna guess Jack Cust.
   17. SoSH U at work Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5630578)

I'm gonna guess Jack Cust.



I can't imagine he got enough PAs to qualify.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5630579)
Great question. I guessed Luis Castillo, who only put 2 balls into play vs 164 walks, for a .000/.988/.000 line. I bet he was really pissed at himself those two times.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5630581)
Dave Magadan was another close call, with only 1 AB in 162 PAs. Not enough playing time though.

Although I suspect the answer will be a patient slugger like Giambi or Thome, I'm ignoring them and having more fun looking up guys like Tony Phillips in my quest to find the answer.
   20. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5630582)
Great question. I guessed Luis Castillo, who only put 2 balls into play vs 164 walks, for a .000/.988/.000 line. I bet he was really pissed at himself those two times.


I hope he'd be even more pissed at himself for not using TWO ####### HANDS against the Yankees.

Not that I'm bitter about it or anything...
   21. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5630584)
Although I suspect the answer will be a patient slugger like Giambi or Thome,


Someone like them sure, but those 2 guys have too many PA and walked too much. Thome had 431 walks on 3-0. You're looking for someone with between 6-8 thousand or so career PA. Or possibly someone with less but a big walk rate.
   22. Batman Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5630587)
An HBP would have been a non-walk, but the top three didn't have any 3-0 HBP's.

A sacrifice bunt would have too. BB-ref says Jerry Hairston Jr. had 86 plate appearances that ended on 3-0 without a ball in play- 85 walks and one SH. Elvis Andrus has 84 such PA, with 83 walks and a bunt.
   23. SoSH U at work Posted: February 26, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5630588)
Youkilis was 108 for 108, which isn't as many ending on 3-0 as I would have guessed.
   24. Born1951 Posted: February 26, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5630636)
Thanks for all the comments and guesses. The answer to the quiz is Omar Vizquel. Below is link to report with the leaders in this category. These are guys that never swung and put the ball in play in their careers on a 3-0 count. They either walked or were hit by a pitch. These should have IBB removed; the top 3 remain in the same order with Vizquel at 223, Kendall at 180 and Drew at 166.

Report
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: February 26, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5630640)
The answer to the quiz is Omar Vizquel.


So the anti-Burrell. Makes sense. There's no reason for Omar to be swinging 3-0. The best he's typically going to do is little better than Ball Four.
   26. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5630652)
Report


I don't understand what the R column is. I mean it's runs obviously, but what runs is it counting? Not runs scored after the PA ended. I assume Vizquel scored more than 16 runs on those 246 walks. And it can't be runs scored on that PA, as you can't score immediately from a walk. I guess technically one could, walk on a 3-0 wild pitch, attempt to go to second, the throw goes into CF, the CF isn't paing attention, ball rolls to the wall, and you come around to score. But surely Vizquel didn't do that 16 times. So what are those 16 runs?
   27. PreservedFish Posted: February 26, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5630661)
They also list stolen bases and such. I don't get it either.
   28. Batman Posted: February 26, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5630672)
I ran a search for the reverse of that- players with no balls in play on 0-2 counts. Most of the players have blanks in the R column, but one that didn't is C.J. Nitkowski, who had a 1. He only scored one run in his career, so it was easy to find- this game.

Nitkowski singled on the first pitch (or the count wasn't recorded) in the second inning and then eventually scored on a Barry Larkin sac fly on an 0-2 pitch. That was a PA by Larkin, but not an AB. I don't know if that would trigger the run to show up in Nitkowski's 0-2 results. Separately, Nitkowski struck out on an 0-2 pitch to end the fifth. He didn't reach on a wild pitch or passed ball, and no run scored during that AB. So it doesn't explain anything.
   29. Hank G. Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5630691)
Johnny Blanchard generated 2.6 WAR in 1961, so he was negative for the rest of his career. He was already 28 in 1961, and nominally the third string catcher behind Howard and Berra, although he caught more games that year than Yogi did. That was by far his best offensive season, but I wonder what his career might have been like had there been a DH back then so that he could get 400-500 plate appearances per season.

Maybe 1961 was a fluke, but that one year he could really rake.

.305/.382/613 with an OPS+ of 168 and 21 home runs, in only 275 plate appearances!

Edit: Beverage of his choice to Tom Nawrocki.
   30. shoewizard Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5630692)
Ohtani on Deck batting 2nd as DH in top of the 1st.
   31. Nasty Nate Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5630698)


I think you are misreading the question. It's not that every 3-0 count ended in a walk. It's that of the PAs that ended on the 3-0 count, all were walks. If it were as you describe, Drew would have 0 PAs after 3-0, but he in fact had 449, meaning that he swung and missed, hit a foul, of took a called strike on 3-0 449 times.
OK, but in 213 of those 449 PA's, he didn't swing and it was a ball, right?
   32. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5630705)
OK, but in 213 of those 449 PA's, he didn't swing and it was a ball, right?


Well, he walked in 276 of his 3-1 counts, not 213, but not all of those 3-1 counts were dervied from ball 1, ball 2, ball 3, strike 1.

Unless I'm misreading what the charts mean, he had 662 PA reach 3-0. 213 of them the 4th pitch was ball 4. In the 449 of them when the 4th pitch was not ball 4, it must have been strike 1.
   33. Batman Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5630716)
I think the 213 PA that ended after 3-0 are included in the 449 in the "After 3-0" line, so you wouldn't add them to make 662. I'm probably misreading them though.
   34. Walt Davis Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5630719)
Sandberg was famous for this but I guess was too swing-happy to reach 3-0 all that often. 161 PA, only 4 AB with 1 hit (HR), 157 BB, 31 IBB, 184 strikes. (He likely swung at a few more than the 4 he put in play but he really had a thing about never swinging 3-0.) Note the splits miss the first 6 seasons.

Looking at those splits now, he was awesome when he got ahead, terrible when he got behind -- I know, true to some level for all batters and I'm sure there are many worse than Sandberg. But just look at 2-2 vs 3-2 which you wouldn't think would be THAT different -- 232/231/334 vs. 270/508/507. About 1/3 of the time on 2-2 he got to 3-2.

What I didn't remember is that apparently he almost never swung at the first pitch either -- just 274 PA at 0-0 vs. 4800 when he took (or fouled) the pitch.
   35. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5630725)
I think the 213 PA that ended after 3-0 are included in the 449 in the "After 3-0" line, so you wouldn't add them to make 662. I'm probably misreading them though.


Your probably right. Otherwise the walk rate is way too high. He has 334 walks in 449 PA after 3-0. Take out the 213, and it's a more reasonable 121 in 236 PA after getting a strike on 3-0.
   36. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 26, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5630726)
The answer to the quiz is Omar Vizquel.


Omar was 246-246

Wade Boggs walked on 298 of his 305 PAs with a 3-0 count
   37. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5630729)
But just look at 2-2 vs 3-2 which you wouldn't think would be THAT different -- 232/231/334 vs. 270/508/507. About 1/3 of the time on 2-2 he got to 3-2.


Remember, you can't walk on 2-2, but you can strike out. So that comparison is a bit misleading. A strike on 2-2 is an out, whereas a ball merely moves you to 3-2.
   38. Batman Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5630735)
Mike Piazza had 303 PA that ended after 3-0: 299 walks, two home runs, a single, and an out. So that's .750/.997/2.250.

There are 18 searchable players who have hit a HR every time they've put a 3-0 pitch in play. 17 of them have done it once, and Danny Espinosa has done it twice.
   39. Born1951 Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5630763)
I don't understand what the R column is. I mean it's runs obviously, but what runs is it counting?

I used the Event Finder to bring up the summary for walks on a 3-0 count for Vizquel, Kendall, and Drew, and it shows runs as 4, 6, and 4 respectively. These are the same as the RBIs and are bases loaded walks. I assume there's some sort of bug that is causing the wrong runs numbers in the chart.
They also list stolen bases and such. I don't get it either.

Stolen bases or caught stealing are possible when a walk occurs, would have to be third or home.
   40. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5630767)
Stolen bases or caught stealing are possible when a walk occurs, would have to be third or home.


But not by the batter.
   41. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5630772)
Shohei Ohtani goes 1-1 in his first look at live American pitching. Two very selective walks, and an RBI single. Just got pulled for a pinch-runner.
   42. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: February 26, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5630775)
Still trying to figure out this Runs thing. It can't be runs that scored when the player got a result on a particular count. Looking at Drew, with a 3-1 count, the runs column is 42 and the RBI column is 45. If it's total runs, R would have to be at least equal to RBI. It can't be runs scored by other players either. He hit 16 HR, so he drove in 29 runners on base. Is it reasonable that other 13 runs scored without him getting an RBI? I don't think so. It is only 130 AB. That's 1 for every 10 AB. The average NL team last year had 33 more R than RBI last year, in 5502 AB. At Drew's assumed rate, the average NL team would have 550 more R than RBI.
   43. PreservedFish Posted: February 26, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5630783)

There are 18 searchable players who have hit a HR every time they've put a 3-0 pitch in play. 17 of them have done it once, and Danny Espinosa has done it twice.


I want to see Espinosa interviewed on this topic.
   44. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 27, 2018 at 01:18 AM (#5630895)
I'm surprised to see Johnny Blanchard finish with just a WAR and a half, since he had that huge year off the bench for the 1961 Yanks, hitting .305 with 21 homers in just 243 ABs.

As a kid I thought Blanchard was a super-clutch magical player that year, and I now see that his 1961 splits confirm that: 1.137 OPS in 32 pinch hitting opportunities; .347/.475/.673 in high leverage situations; .402/.465/.793 when behind. He really came through when needed that season. The rest of his career, not so much.

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