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Thursday, February 28, 2013

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 2-28-2013

Pittsburgh Press, February 28, 1913:

The first real injury of the spring season is reported from the Cub bivouac. Bert Humphries, the young pitcher, was hit in the solar plexus by a batted ball and confined to the hotel for two days.
...
The first man to be put out this season was pitcher Bert Humphries of the Cubs. Bert was pitching to batters the other day at Tampa when he was floored by a line drive from Vic Saier’s bat. The hurler recovered in a few moments, though.

So…this is pretty weird. Either Humphries got flattened twice or there are two drastically different accounts of his injuries in the exact same column.

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 28, 2013 at 06:53 AM | 42 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bert humphries, dugout, history

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   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 28, 2013 at 07:03 AM (#4377481)
Today's Birthday Team is...not so good.

C: Gene McAuliffe
1B: Moose McCormick
2B: Marty Perez
3B: Frank Malzone
SS: Terry Turner
LF: Rufino Linares
CF: Jim Wohlford
RF: Dick Kokos

SP: Jake Miller
SP: Jeff Niemann
SP: Howie Krist
SP: Lil Stoner
SP: Brian Bannister
RP: Aroldis Chapman

General Manager: Bob Howsam
Pitching Coach: Mark Wiley
Negro Leagues Great: Jud Wilson
Designated Aussie: Trent Oeltjen
Will not accompany team on road trips to Chicago: Tom Gamboa
Member of the Mongolian National Team: Uuganmyagmar Battulga
   2. Sweatpants Posted: February 28, 2013 at 07:38 AM (#4377483)
How many DP combos have played together for more than one team? Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson are now on their third team together, although I don't think that Johnson is supposed to be the primary starter at 2B.
   3. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: February 28, 2013 at 09:16 AM (#4377504)
Baseball historical item at THT notes that today is 10,000 days since baseball's dsylexic Adm. Ackbar moment.
   4. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 28, 2013 at 09:42 AM (#4377518)
3,000 days since Texas signs free agent outfielder Richard Hidalgo for what will be the last season in his disappointing career.

Man, time flies. If you asked me, I would have said that he retired about 4 years ago.
   5. BochysFingers Posted: February 28, 2013 at 09:53 AM (#4377523)
Lil Stoner's full name was Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner.
   6. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:23 AM (#4377529)
#2--I don't know the full answer, but I can provide this piece of related trivia:

On May 27, 2007, the Blue Jays' starting infield was Lyle Overbay at first, Aaron Hill at second, Ryan Roberts at third, and John McDonald at short.

4 and a half years later, on August 24, 2011, the Dimaondbacks' starting infield was Lyle Overbay at first, Aaron Hill at second, Ryan Roberts at third, and John McDonald at short.

This is the only time in baseball history the same group of infielders have played for two separate teams.
   7. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4377532)
Joe Morgan and Dennis Menke.

Edit: Not really. Menke played mostly 3B when traded with Morgan to the reds.
   8. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4377535)
Lil Stoner's full name was Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner.


"Lil Stoner" is also an eight-time winner of the "Most Irresponsible Comic Book" award.
   9. JJ1986 Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:31 AM (#4377538)
Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot played together for LSU and then the Cubs.
   10. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:32 AM (#4377539)
One other group is very close: Chris Chambliss-Eddie Leon-Graig Nettles-Fred Stanley for the 1971 Indians and the 1975 Yankees. They were all on the rosters for both teams, but the Yankees weren't able to get all 4 of them into the infield at the same time at any point in the season.

Of course, Eddie Leon played just 1 inning for the Yankees that year, so it wasn't entirely their fault!
   11. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:38 AM (#4377543)
3 of the 4 Big Red Machine IFs were on the "Wheeze Kids" Phillies in 1983. Rose, Morgan and Perez were on the team, with Perez as Rose's backup at 1B.
   12. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4377546)
Lil Stoner's full name was Ulysses Simpson Grant Stoner.


Ooh, I wish he had played for the Cubs, who already have Theodore Roosevelt Lily, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Calvin Coolidge McLish, and William Jennings Bryan Herman.
   13. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: February 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4377551)
#2: Jeff Kent and Jose Vizcaino were DP combos on FOUR separate teams!

Mets, 94-96
Indians, 96
Giants, 97
Astros, 2003-04
   14. Ulysses S. Fairsmith Posted: February 28, 2013 at 11:05 AM (#4377564)
Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot played together for LSU and then the Cubs.

If we're going to play that way, I think the double-play combo for the 1977 Montgomery Rebels played together for a while in Detroit.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 28, 2013 at 11:22 AM (#4377569)
Luis Alicea and Royce Clayton teamed up in 1996 for the Cardinals, and the Rangers liked it so much, they paired the two up in 2000.

Was looking up past DP combos and it blows my mind that Tony Phillips was part of a DP combo with both Joe Morgan and Miguel Tejada.
   16. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: February 28, 2013 at 11:23 AM (#4377572)
I dreamt of Rufino two nights back.

That's all I've got.
   17. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 28, 2013 at 11:45 AM (#4377583)
Lyle Overbay, Junior Spivey and Craig Counsell were all part of the 2003 Diamondbacks infield, then were all traded to the Brewers in 2004.

Bill Spiers and Pat Listach went from the '93 Brewers to the '97 Astros.

   18. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 28, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4377585)
Jeff Kent and Jose Vizcaino were DP combos on FOUR separate teams!

Mets, 94-96
Indians, 96
Giants, 97
Kent and Vizcaino were traded to Cleveland together in '96 as part of the Carlos Baerga trade, then were packaged along with Julian Tavarez that offseason for Matt Williams. Some of John Hart's best and worst work, involving the same players, within the span of a few months.

Makes me wonder what two teammates were traded together most often.
   19. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: February 28, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4377592)
Re: Hart getting fleeced in the Jeff Kent deal with the Giants, I think maybe hindsight makes it look worse than it was. Kent left Cleveland as a 28-year-old iron-gloved 2B/3B with a reputation as a pain in the ass and a career OPS+ of 107, and retired as a defensible Hall of Fame candidate with an MVP award on his mantel.

Maybe whatever happened to him in San Francisco - whether it was excellent coaching or synthetic supplements - wouldn't have happened in Cleveland, and maybe he'd have continued to be a rich man's Jose Valentin if he'd stayed with the Indians.
   20. dr. scott Posted: February 28, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4377605)
Did the riot and fontenot ever play together on the giants? I think fontenot or "Canadian fur trapper" as I like to call him, was released before he got a chance to play with the riot.
   21. Tom Nawrocki Posted: February 28, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4377621)
Maybe whatever happened to him in San Francisco - whether it was excellent coaching or synthetic supplements


*cough*DustyBaker*cough*
   22. esseff Posted: February 28, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4377622)
Did the riot and fontenot ever play together on the giants? I think fontenot or "Canadian fur trapper" as I like to call him, was released before he got a chance to play with the riot.


They were together in spring training 2012. Fontenot was cut and Theriot kept at the end of camp.
   23. steagles Posted: February 28, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4377643)
The Phillies, under Ruben Amaro, are like Czarist Russia, a vast empire of tremendous power and blessed with incredible resources that’s so in love with the fashions and practices of 50 years prior that that power and those resources were, and will be, squandered in a massive blaze and at the cost of unimaginable human suffering. And the next people to take over will be a marginal improvement intellectually but little better practically. And we’ll spend the next 10 years in undignified retreat, watching our crops and oil fields burn because our leaders are too obsessed with superstitions and customs that the rest of the world laughed out of the culture as obsolete before we were even born
   24. esseff Posted: February 28, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4377644)
Weird double post
   25. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 28, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4377784)
STEAGLES, I'm guessing that you are not quoting Jack McCaffery. Who wrote that?
   26. dr. scott Posted: February 28, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4377894)
They were together in spring training 2012. Fontenot was cut and Theriot kept at the end of camp.


Thanks, thats what I thought... but if college counts, then spring training might count...

(by the way, it was my iphones autocorrect that made Theriot "the riot"... but I did choose to keep it that way despite the oldness of the joke)
   27. Downtown Bookie Posted: February 28, 2013 at 07:33 PM (#4377999)
How many DP combos have played together for more than one team?


Eddie Stanky and Al Dark played second and short for pennant winners in both Boston and New York.

DB
   28. Downtown Bookie Posted: February 28, 2013 at 07:43 PM (#4378006)
Double post.

DB
   29. Mike Emeigh Posted: February 28, 2013 at 09:01 PM (#4378040)
Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson are now on their third team together, although I don't think that Johnson is supposed to be the primary starter at 2B.


Johnson's been playing in the outfield; he's likely to be this year's version of another Johnson, Eliot.

-- MWE
   30. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 01, 2013 at 03:39 AM (#4378154)
Rabbit Maranville and Johnny Rawlings were the DP combo for both the Braves (1917) and the Pirates (1923).
   31. tfbg9 Posted: March 02, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4379180)
Would the Red Sox the best "A guy has to be on your team for 5 years, and then you take his best bWAR season,
regardless of which team he played for for that season, and apply it to your team, make a 25 guy "Since 1901* All-Time Team", and its
OK to just fill your OF with 3 OF'ers regardless of what type, and starters can relieve, if a certain guy was both a SP and and OF use can use him twice (yes the Yanks too can pull this move), but you can't do stuff like use Jimmy Foxx at catcher"?

Red Sox

SP Cy Young 1901: 12.4
SP Roger Clemens 1997: 11.6
SP Pedro 2000: 11.4
SP Lefty Grove 1936: 10.7
SP Joe Wood 1912: 10.0

RP Dutch Leonard 1914: 9.0
RP Babe Ruth 1916: 8.3
RP Looie 1968: 8.0
RP Jon "Take My Wife" Tudor: 7.8
RP Mel Parnell 7.6: 1949

C Carlton Fisk 1972: 7.0
1B Jimmie Foxx 1935: 10.2
2B John Valentin 1995: 8.1
3B Wade Boggs 1985: 9.0
SS Rico Petrocelli 1969: 9.5
OF Babe Ruth 1923: 13.7
OF Yaz 1967: 12.0
OF The Greatest Hitter Who Ever Lived 1946: 10.7
DH JD Drew 2004: 8.1

C2 Rich Gedman 1985: 5.2
4OF Tris Speaker 1912: 9.8
5OF Fred Lynn 1979: 8.6
IF Joe Cronin 1933: 8.0
IF Dustin Pedroia 2011: 7.8
25TH MAN/UT/PH/PR/WHATEVER Jacoby Ellsbury 2011: 8.0

Pitching bWar = 96.8

Position Player bWAR = 135.7

Total bWAR = 232.5, or 9.30 per man...top that!




*Hey it's my idea. Neener-neener.
   32. tfbg9 Posted: March 02, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4379184)
Edit broken: switch Pedroia into 2B, move Valentin to back-up IF
   33. tfbg9 Posted: March 02, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4379190)
I was suprised Gedman had the big year he did, btw. Bit flukey, but he was pretty good for 3 years.
   34. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 02, 2013 at 02:41 PM (#4379194)
Would the Red Sox the best "A guy has to be on your team for 5 years, and then you take his best bWAR season,
regardless of which team he played for for that season, and apply it to your team, make a 25 guy "Since 1901* All-Time Team",


I thought the Cubs could compete until I noticed the 5 year rule. Without it they can get Foxx, Hornsby, Dizzy Dean...
   35. tfbg9 Posted: March 02, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4379195)
I would think that the Yanks, Cards, and Giants would be pretty good. Newish franchises are at a disadvantage...
   36. tfbg9 Posted: March 02, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4379199)
Another correction: Ruth had 10.0 bWAR in 1916, bring the Red Sox total up to 234.2, or 9.368 per man.
   37. Morty Causa Posted: March 02, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4379202)
I think fontenot or "Canadian fur trapper"



Fontenot wasn't Canadian. And the Fontenots don't come from Canada. They came to Louisiana from Alabama after the French ceded the territory to the English after the French and Indian War. There was a fort around Mobile, I think, and the progenitor of all the Fontenots in Louisiana (and there are a lot) was in the army there since about 1730. At least that's what research and family members who have done research in genealogy tell me.
   38. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 02, 2013 at 06:06 PM (#4379270)
I would think that the Yanks, Cards, and Giants would be pretty good. Newish franchises are at a disadvantage...


Not the Giants. They can hang on the pitching side, thanks to some great non-Giant seasons by Perry, Reuschel, and Blue, but on the hitting side they get creamed. Aside from Bonds and Mays, they have literally no other transcendent season. The third best is a 9.1 WAR by Frank Frisch (for the 1927 cardinals).

I haven't looked, but I suspect the Yankees and Cards would get creamed on the pitching side.
   39. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 02, 2013 at 06:22 PM (#4379277)
The A's can hang on front line talent, but they don't have much depth.

Grove 10.7
Blue 8.7
Waddell 10.0
Coombs 9.3
Schantz 8.7


Cochrane 6.1
Foxx 10.2
Collins 10.1
Tejada 7.1
Baker 9.0
Henderson 9.8
Simmons 7.5
Jackson 8.8
Giambi 8.8
   40. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: March 02, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4379285)
OF Babe Ruth 1923: 13.7
OF Yaz 1967: 12.0
OF The Greatest Hitter Who Ever Lived 1946: 10.7
DH JD Drew 2004: 8.1


You're really playing this outfield/DH combo and leaving Speaker on the bench? I somehow doubt Williams would complain about DHing.

Edit: Heck, Speaker's 1912 is a better offensive season than Drew's '04. His raw OPS is higher, without even accounting for the fact that their offensive contexts were ever so slightly different.
   41. tfbg9 Posted: March 02, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4379367)
40-it was about piling-up the bWAR, not deciding who starts. Speaker is clearly the all-time Red Sox CFer.
   42. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: March 03, 2013 at 12:01 AM (#4379408)
Astros starters:
C - Biggio 9.3
1b - Bagwell 7.9
2b - Morgan 10.8
3b - Caminiti 7.4
SS - Thon 7.2
OF - Cedeno 7.9
OF - Wynn 7.6
OF - Berkman 6.6
DH / PH - Cruz 6.0

P - Dierker 8.5
P - Scott 8.0
P - Farrell 6.7
P - Oswalt 6.7
P - Joe "Greatest Clutch Pitcher of All Time" Niekro - 6.5

Not nearly as bad as I'd expected, although it's tough for a post-1961 pitching staff to compete with deadball-era guys.

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