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Friday, March 22, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 3-22-2019

Chicago Eagle, March 22, 1919:

France, the country that went through the fightingest war in history without batting an eye, will never adopt baseball as a national pastime because the game is “too rough.”

This was learned from no less an authority than Capt. Christoper Mathewson, who has just arrived from France.
...
“Their infield work is rotten,” said Christy, “They can run bases all right, but they get little opportunity because they can’t bat…No, the Frenchman will never take to baseball in a big way. He prefers something more gentle, such as football and dueling.”

Elsewhere on the same page…

[Braves catcher] Hank Gowdy has written Manager George Stallings of the Boston Braves that he hopes to bring back with him from France a French soldier haved Flore Andris, who is, according to Gowdy, a real wonder as a ball player, and fit for a trial as a major leaguer.”

The French can’t play baseball. Also, this French guy is really good at baseball.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 09:50 AM | 15 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5824524)
Cook up some casserole and call it a pizza: Today's Birthday Team has a Chicago feel to it. Uribe, Goodman, Fowler, Hill, Dick Ellsworth.

C: Gene Oliver (6.5 WAR)
1B: George Crowe (6.3 WAR)
2B: Billy Goodman (26.9 WAR)
3B: Sean Berry (4.8 WAR)
SS: Juan Uribe (23.8 WAR)
LF: Moose Solters (6.8 WAR)
CF: Dexter Fowler (17.9 WAR)
RF: Glenallen Hill (9.7 WAR)

SP: Ramon Martinez (25.9 WAR)
SP: Dick Ellsworth (20.1 WAR)
SP: Cory Lidle (10.7 WAR)
SP: Justin Masterson (10.3 WAR)
SP: Eric Rasmussen (5.0 WAR)
RP: Joe Smith (12.7 WAR)

Bob's brother, Michael's uncle: Scott Bradley
Does not suffer from Jungle Fever, as far as we know: Ike Davis
Fun names: Chick Holmes, Overton Tremper
Manager: Matt Galante
Announcers: Bob Elson, Bob Costas
Writer: Frank Dolson
Umpire: Frank Pulli
   2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 10:25 AM (#5824537)
SP: Dick Ellsworth (20.1 WAR)

bref credits him with 10.2 WAR in 1963--he never had higher than 3.7 in any other season and was usually in the 2's
   3. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5824538)
RF: Glenallen Hill (9.7 WAR)


MLB's favorite condo development.
   4. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 22, 2019 at 10:31 AM (#5824540)
I prefer Josh Towers.
   5. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5824543)
Touche...
   6. stanmvp48 Posted: March 22, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5824552)
1.77 ERA for Ellsworth on the road. Age 23.
   7. crict Posted: March 22, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5824555)
Sean Berry is probably the forgotten regular member of the 'mythical' 1994 Expos. He was OK, but after the long run of successes of Larry Parrish and Tim Wallach, he was part of the rotating door at 3B for the last leg of the team history. Other members include Bret Barberie, Frank Bolick, Shane Andrews, Fernando Tatis, Michael Barrett, Chris Truby and Tony Batista.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 22, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5824561)
The French can’t play baseball.
"Mais non! Et aussi, avez-vous volé avec Delta?" --Jeff Francoeur
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5824579)

bref credits him with 10.2 WAR in 1963--he never had higher than 3.7 in any other season and was usually in the 2's


Are you questioning the 10.2, or just saying it's an all time fluke year.

290 IP of a 167 ERA+ seems like it could well be worth 10 wins.
   10. Man o' Schwar Posted: March 22, 2019 at 12:12 PM (#5824585)
RF: Glenallen Hill (9.7 WAR)

I wish we could retroactively apply Statcast to that HR that Hill hit that landed on the roof of one of the apartment buildings across the street from Wrigley. Still the hardest hit ball I've ever seen. Blink and it was already out of the park.

On top of the roof!
   11. Hysterical & Useless Posted: March 22, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5824604)
Some of you may recall that years ago Steve Treder would do these "What if?" articles about various teams at The Hardball Times; ie, if this trade wasn't made, they wouldn't have needed to do this stupid trade, which would've meant etc. One that he did was of the late 50s-early 60s Cubs, who looked to be developing a raft of pitching talent--Glen Hobbie, who came up with back problems at an early age, Dick Drott, a terrific rookie season then years of arm trouble, and Ellsworth, who looks to have been (by today's standards) overused at a very young age. What if those guys had stayed healthy and useful (even if not as dominant as Ellsworth was in '63)? What trades wouldn't have been made, what else might they have done instead...

Bet they would've been able to avoid that 10th place finish in '66.
   12. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5824620)

Are you questioning the 10.2, or just saying it's an all time fluke year.

290 IP of a 167 ERA+ seems like it could well be worth 10 wins.


all-time fluke al a Dean Chance in 1964
   13. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 22, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5824632)
all-time fluke al a Dean Chance in 1964


Well, it depends on what you mean by all time. Outside of that magical year, Chance was a very good pitcher. His top 4 WAR seasons are 9.6, 6.2, 5.9, 4.1. Yes, it was a fluke, but one that we see a lot, from good but not great pitchers. Take Ron Guidry: 9.6, 6.3, 5.3, 4.8. Or Teddy Higeura: 9.4, 7.3, 6.3, 3.1. Or John Matlack: 9.1, 6.2, 6.1, 4.3. Or Jose Rijo: 9.2, 5.7, 5.7, 5.5. All flukes, but if Chance is an all time fluke, then so are the others. Ellsworth at 10.1, 3.1, 2.2, 2.2 is a whole different category, like Mark Fidrych and Dwight Gooden.

it remains to be seen where deGrom and Nola fit: all time fluke, run of the mill fluke from good but not great pitchers, or repeatable skill level.
   14. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 22, 2019 at 04:00 PM (#5824716)
ESPN reports Sox sign 5 year extension with Chris Sale--5/$145M
   15. bbmck Posted: March 22, 2019 at 09:50 PM (#5824779)
Bill James has 7.8 pitching WAR in 1914 and at most 0.3 in any other season, various large gaps among the 56 pitchers who had their only season of 7+ pitching WAR in 1914 or earlier. Among the 100 pitchers who had their only season of 7+ pitching WAR since 1915 the average best season is 7.9 and 2nd best is 5.3. The gap between their best and 2nd season by pitching WAR:

7.2 - Mark Fidrych
6.7 - Dwight Gooden
6.6 - Dick Ellsworth
6.5 - Blake Snell
6.2 - Aaron Nola

5.9 - Bobby Shantz
5.2 - Dave Davenport, Kyle Freeland
4.8 - Justin Thompson
4.6 - Dolf Luque, Hisashi Iwakuma
4.5 - Hank Aguirre

4.4 - Mark Eichhorn, Scott Perry, Jacob deGrom
4.2 - Cy Blanton, Larry Dierker
3.9 - John Hiller
3.8 - Mark Prior
3.7 - Guy Morton, Jimmy Ring, Hoyt Wilhelm

3.6 - Fred Toney, Hal Carlson
3.5 - Jose Rijo
3.4 - Esteban Loaiza, Harry Brecheen, Mike Caldwell
3.2 - Bill Hands, Dean Chance, Dontrelle Willis, Lefty Stewart, Rick Reuschel, Turk Farrell, Thornton Lee
3.0 - Ron Guidry

2.9 - Jake Arrieta, John Candelaria, John Tudor
2.8 - Bill Lee, Ben Sheets, Jon Matlack, Pat Hentgen, Randy Jones
2.7 - Britt Burns
2.6 - Mort Cooper, Bump Hadley, George Uhle
2.5 - Mike Scott

2.4 - Derek Lowe, Tom Glavine, Willis Hudlin, Bob Purkey, Bob Welch
2.3 - Dave Roberts, Goose Gossage
2.2 - Babe Ruth, Howard Ehmke, John Denny, Mel Parnell
2.0 - Ubaldo Jiminez
1.9 - Barry Zito, Jim Abbott

1.8 - Steve Rogers, Tommy Thomas
1.7 - Bucky Walters, Camilo Pascual, Cliff Lee, Early Wynn, Herb Score, Kenny Rogers, Ned Garver
1.6 - Andy Pettitte
1.5 - Eddie Rommel, John Smoltz, Mark Gubicza
1.4 - Nels Potter, Ted Lyons, Bartolo Colon, Preacher Roe, Tom Candiotti

1.3 - Larry Jackson
1.2 - Herb Pennock, Catfish Hunter
1.1 - Jimmy Key, Burleigh Grimes, Johnny Antonelli
0.9 - Jerry Koosman, Johnny Allen, Virgil Trucks, Ernie Broglio
0.8 - Felix Hernandez

0.7 - Mario Soto, Wilbur Cooper
0.6 - Brandon Webb, Tim Hudson
0.5 - Ed Whitson
0.4 - Lon Warneke
0.3 - Josh Johnson, Roy Oswalt

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