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Friday, March 28, 2014

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 3-28-2014

The [Missoula, MT] Daily Missoulian, March 28, 1914:

Joe Jackson was piloting a team of barnstormers through the Carolinas…The local phenom who did the hurling for the home team struck out [Jackson] on one occasion. Jackson also sent up two pops to the infield.

“So that’s the kind of a swatter you are,” was the sarcastic remark made by the kid pitcher when Jackson came up the fourth time. “They must have a lot of boobs pitching up there in the American league.”

The remark roused Joe’s ire. “Say kid,” he said. “Take a look at that railroad track out there past the outfield…Now you take a squint at that cow grazing in the meadow beyond…Next time you look, you’ll see the ball hit the cow on the back and make it do some tall scrambling. Pitch up,” continued Jackson, taking a determined grip on his bat.

The kid pitched, Jackson hit the first ball and it soared out over the railroad track, fell plump on the cow’s back and “made it do some tall scrambling.”

That pitcher was Charlie Root*. And now you know…the rest of the story. Primer Dugout…Good day.

* - this is false.

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: March 28, 2014 at 08:42 AM | 70 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, joe jackson

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   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: March 28, 2014 at 08:44 AM (#4678104)
Fairly decent Birthday Team, unless you want them to score runs and win games and stuff.

C: Jimmie Coker
1B: Glenn Davis
2B: Tom McLaughlin
3B: Harry Gleason
SS: Dee Walsh
LF: Ryan Christenson
CF: Jimmy Barrett
RF: Craig Paquette

SP: Lon Warneke
SP: Vic Raschi
SP: Paul Wilson
SP: Shawn Boskie
SP: Joe Krakauskas
RP: Mark Melancon

Fun Name: Moses "Chief" Yellow Horse
Owner: Gussie Busch
   2. BDC Posted: March 28, 2014 at 09:55 AM (#4678138)
If you got that Birthday pitching staff all at their best, it would be a very creditable bunch. Of course you can say that with most ML pitching rosters. The best is hard to come by.

Glenn Davis could hit, too, for a while. IIRC he is in the Hal Trosky / Nick Esasky group of slugging 1B who suddenly succumbed to something.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 10:08 AM (#4678149)
Released: IF Mike Fontenot, OF Greg Golson, P Alfredo Aceves

DFA: LHP Bobby Fromboise

P Jack Armstrong (son of former big leaguer of the same name) and a 2011 3rd round pick of the Astros has retired due to injuries. Red Sox 2010 first round pick Kolbin Vitrek has also retired.

A's Michael Taylor will not make the team, and he's out of options. Could be a nice flyer for someone.
   4. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: March 28, 2014 at 10:10 AM (#4678152)
DFA: LHP Bobby Fromboise
Pbbbt. That gets a big ol' raspberry from me.
   5. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 10:13 AM (#4678155)
Glenn Davis is also in the Ernie Broglio/Doyle Alexander/Larry Andersen group of veteran players exchanged for young players/prospects in a move that is rued by fans of the franchise that acquired them.
   6. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:11 AM (#4678186)
What would be the most rued trade by fan base? I thought of several big ones but I'm sure every fan base has one.

Arizona:
Atlanta:
Baltimore: Glenn Davis for Steve Finley, Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling
Boston: Larry Andersen for Jeff Bagwell
Chicago (AL):
Chicago (NL): Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock
Cincinnati:
Cleveland:
Colorado:
Detroit: Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz
Houston:
Kansas City:
Los Angeles (AL):
Los Angeles (NL):
Miami:
Milwaukee:
Minnesota:
New York (AL):
New York (NL):
Oakland:
Pittsburgh:
Philadelphia:
San Diego:
San Francisco:
Seattle:
St. Louis:
Tampa Bay:
Texas:
Toronto:
Washington/Montreal:
   7. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4678188)

A Padre fan might be able to correct me but I'm thinking
San Diego: Garry Templeton and Sixto Lezcano for Ozzie Smith

And I don't know if Nationals fans care about what happened in Montreal but
Bartolo Colon for Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Lee Stevens seems like it would sting a bit
   8. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4678191)
It may not be the worst trade in Indians history, but Colavito for Kuenn is absolutely the most rued trade Cleveland has made.
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:25 AM (#4678199)
Kansas City: David Cone for Ed Hearn. Maybe Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez for younger fans.

Houston: Joe Morgan to the Reds or Kenny Lofton to the Indians

Dodgers: Pedro for DeShields?

Mets: Nolan Ryan trade

Phillies: Ryne Sandberg or Fergie Jenkins deal

Cardinals: Steve Carlton deal

Rays: Bobby Abreu deal
   10. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4678202)
Seattle: Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb

Minnesota: Johan deal?

Milwaukee: Gary Sheffield deal?

Toronto: Roger Clemens deal? Michael Young deal? Halladay?

Miami: Miggy Cabrera deal?

White Sox: Sosa

Yankees: Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!
   11. BDC Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4678209)
White Sox: Sosa

He'd be the Rangers' nightmare as well.

Though if the Rangers had just kept Harold Baines for ten years, not so much. Much worse from an eventual perspective was trading Adrian Gonzalez et al. for Adam Eaton et al.
   12. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:38 AM (#4678213)
Joe Nathan, plus Bonser and Liriano, for A.J. Pierzynski probably gives Giants fans a kick in the crotch.
   13. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4678220)
Toronto: Roger Clemens deal? Michael Young deal? Halladay?

Speaking for my fellow Blue Jays fans, it's not either of the pitchers. They were established veterans who asked to be traded. Fans may regret that the Jays had to trade them but it's not rued on the same level as the other suggestions. With Clemens, the anger is directed more at the Rocket for wanting out after only two years. But most Jays fans seemed appreciative of Halladay for showing loyalty to the team for so long and wished him well.

The Young trade, however, is rued because the Jays supposedly had too many shortstops in the system and they traded away the one who went on to have the best career. The Chris Carpenter trade is rued quite a bit as well. I remember pining for the possibility of a Carpenter-Halladay top of the rotation for quite a few years.
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 11:49 AM (#4678223)
Carpenter wasn't traded, IIRC, he was non-tendered or just released.
   15. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:02 PM (#4678235)
For the Reds, it has to be Robinson for Pappas right? And I agree with the Dodgers.. Pedro for Delino was pretty bad. Losing Clemente in the Rule 5 draft to the Pirates might have been worse, but it wasn't a trade. Konerko for Shaw was a bit of a stinker, too.
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:02 PM (#4678236)
Glad to see the Missoula paper was committed to truth and accuracy in reporting even 100 years ago.
   17. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4678239)
Ooh, and for the Padres, both of the McGriff trades were not the greatest. They gave up Alomar in the 1st deal and then dealt McGriff away a couple of years later for essentially Melvin Nieves. They also dealt Tony Fernandez for basically nothing, so in the long run they gave up Alomar for nothing.
   18. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4678246)
A's: Jeremy Giambi for John Mabry! What would it be really though? CarGo for Holliday?

Angels: Wells for Napoli? Edmonds for Bottenfield? Devo White for Willie Fraser?

Braves: Tex trade?
   19. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4678251)
For the Athletics, wouldn't it be Connie Mack selling off his entire team for cash in 1932-1933? If I had to pick one, maybe Grove, Bishop, and Walberg for $125,000.

Of course, that probably doesn't bother Oakland fans all that much.
   20. JJ1986 Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4678256)
Edmonds for Bottenfield?


They got Adam Kennedy too, so I think it's probably not this one.
   21. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4678257)
What about the Dusty Baker trade for the Braves?
   22. An Athletic in Powderhorn™ Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:39 PM (#4678263)
Andre Ethier for 115 games of Milton Bradley stings a bit. The A's also got Antonio Perez in the deal. He gave them 109 PAs of .102/.185/.204 hitting and unsurprisingly never played in the Majors again.
   23. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:42 PM (#4678265)
Little Giambi for Mabry, of course.
   24. mathesond Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:43 PM (#4678267)
For the Jays, Napoli for Francisco stings some fans, as does the aforementioned Michael Young for Esteban Loaiza. Can't forget about Cone for Marty Janzen in 1995. And, of course, in the 'trade-that-never-happened' category they turned down the chance to trade Bill Singer for Ron Guidry since the opening day programs had already been printed with Singer on the cover.
   25. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 12:44 PM (#4678268)
It may not be the worst trade in Indians history, but Colavito for Kuenn is absolutely the most rued trade Cleveland has made.

and then you have to add the fact that , 5 days earlier, Trader Lane gave away Norm Cash for Steve Demeter. Quite a week, there, Frank
   26. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4678278)
Released: Jon Rauch, Shelley Duncan, Adam Russell, Tom Manzella
   27. Jeff R., P***y Mainlander Posted: March 28, 2014 at 01:09 PM (#4678279)
I'm surprised nobody brought up Mike Sirotka for the Jays.
   28. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:02 PM (#4678308)
What would be the most rued trade by fan base? I thought of several big ones but I'm sure every fan base has one.

Detroit: Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz
...
Toronto: Duane Ward for Doyle Alexander


/Jays fan from 1987
   29. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:04 PM (#4678309)
I'm surprised nobody brought up Mike Sirotka for the Jays.


Is it really a trade, or outright theft if the player arrives injured and never pitches another inning again?
   30. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:21 PM (#4678318)
Are there trades not made that fanbases lament?

I think Royals fans lament Baird not pulling the trigger on Robinson Cano for Beltran.
   31. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:34 PM (#4678323)

I'm surprised nobody brought up Mike Sirotka for the Jays.


I would've, but whenever I try to post from my PC I get a time-out error and the site eats my post.

Other Jays trades:

I had a friend who was still bitter about the Jesse Barfield for Al Leiter trade decades after the fact. He was always mad that the Jays traded the best outfield arm he'd ever seen for a guy who constantly was out with blisters.

John Olerud (and cash!) for Robert Person killed me when it happened.

There was a sportswriter in Toronto who wouldn't let go of the Paul Quantrill and Cesar Izturis for Luke Prokopec deal. All throughout Ricciardi's tenure in Toronto, he'd write "The Jays could've had a gold glove defender at short, or they could've had Eric Gagné". He's probably still looking for ways to sneak that into columns.

The aforementioned Napoli for Francisco deal burned me up. I was high off the Wells trade and AA possibly being a supergenius, then that happened.

For Seattle, Varitek and Lowe for Slocumb is the obvious one, but Bill Bavasi trading Sin Soo Choo and Asdrubal Cabrera in two separate deals with Cleveland in exchange for an ineffective first base platoon (Ben Broussard and Eduardo Perez, both of whom put up negative WAR with Seattle) has to sting.
   32. Rennie's Tenet Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:38 PM (#4678327)
Yankees: Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!


Pirates, of course, sent Buhner to the Yankees for the bodily remains of Steve Kemp.

Aramis to the Cubs is certainly the most mourned trade, though.
   33. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4678332)

Arizona:
Atlanta: Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Mark Teixeira
or Dusty Baker for Lee Lacy, Tom Paciorek, Jerry Royster and Jim Wynn ?
Baltimore: Steve Finley, Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling for Glenn Davis
Boston: Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen
Chicago (AL): Sammy Sosa for George Bell
Chicago (NL): Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio
Cincinnati: Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas
Cleveland: Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn
Colorado:
Detroit: John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander
Houston: Joe Morgan for Lee May (+others)
Kansas City: David Cone for Ed Hearn (+others) or Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez ?
Los Angeles (AL): Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells
Los Angeles (NL): Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields
Miami: Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for six prospects
Milwaukee: Gary Sheffield for Ricky Bones, Matt Mieske and Jose Valentin ?
Minnesota: Johan Santana for Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber ?
New York (AL): Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps
New York (NL): Nolan Ryan (+others) for Jim Fregosi
Oakland: Jeremy Giambi for John Mabry
Pittsburgh:
Philadelphia: Ryne Sandberg and Larry Bowa for Ivan DeJesus
San Diego: Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter for Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez
San Francisco: Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for A. J. Pierzynski
Seattle: Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb
St. Louis: Steve Carlton for Rick Wise
Tampa Bay: Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker
Texas: Sammy Sosa, Wilson Alvarez and Scott Fletcher for Harold Baines
Toronto: Michael Young for Esteban Loiaza
Washington/Montreal: Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Lee Stevens for Bartolo Colon

Not surprisingly, we're still looking for suggestions for two of the more recent expansion teams (Arizona, Colorado).
We also haven't heard from the Pittsburgh contingent.

Then there are a couple of suggestions that I'm not sure about. Were Milwaukee fans upset that the team traded Sheffield or were they glad to get the jerk out of town? Do Minnesota fans rue trading away Santana or are they relieved that the team unloaded him before he broke down?

And we have two possible ties: one in Atlanta where fans are upset about trading Baker for a bunch of spare parts and sometime later trading a bunch of top prospects for one year of Teixeira; the other in KC where different generations might differ over the pain of trading a top pitcher vs. an all-star outfielder.
   34. JJ1986 Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:45 PM (#4678333)
The Casey Fossum trade was a really bad return for the DBacks.
   35. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:46 PM (#4678334)
Arizona:
Atlanta: Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Mark Teixeira
or Dusty Baker for Lee Lacy, Tom Paciorek, Jerry Royster and Jim Wynn ?
Baltimore: Steve Finley, Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling for Glenn Davis
Boston: Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen
Chicago (AL): Sammy Sosa for George Bell
Chicago (NL): Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio
Cincinnati: Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas
Cleveland: Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn
Colorado:
Detroit: John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander
Houston: Joe Morgan for Lee May (+others)
Kansas City: David Cone for Ed Hearn (+others) or Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez ?
Los Angeles (AL): Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells
Los Angeles (NL): Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields
Miami: Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for six prospects
Milwaukee: Gary Sheffield for Ricky Bones, Matt Mieske and Jose Valentin ?
Minnesota: Johan Santana for Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber ?
New York (AL): Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps
New York (NL): Nolan Ryan (+others) for Jim Fregosi
Oakland: Jeremy Giambi for John Mabry
Pittsburgh: Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton for Jose Hernandez and Bobby Hill
Philadelphia: Ryne Sandberg and Larry Bowa for Ivan DeJesus
San Diego: Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter for Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez
San Francisco: Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for A. J. Pierzynski
Seattle: Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb
St. Louis: Steve Carlton for Rick Wise
Tampa Bay: Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker
Texas: Sammy Sosa, Wilson Alvarez and Scott Fletcher for Harold Baines
Toronto: Michael Young for Esteban Loiaza
Washington/Montreal: Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Lee Stevens for Bartolo Colon
   36. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:48 PM (#4678335)
John Olerud (and cash!) for Robert Person killed me when it happened.



The Jays have had a lot of bad trades. The Olerud one burns me up too though I think the Michael Young trade is mentioned more often.

Also, my Rockies fan friend already rues trading away Dexter Fowler though it might be too early on that one.
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4678336)
I think the Cone trade is still bigger in KC, but maybe that's cause I'm older.

Pittsburgh is the ARam trade, as mentioned above.

Arizona - the Sexson trade? He sucked for them, but they just gave up a ton of spare parts for him. Only Jorge de la Rosa and Chris Capuano would be considered any kind of good.

Carlos Quentin for Chris Carter? Bauer for Gregorius provided angst, but Bauer hasn't done much of anything yet.

Colorado, huh, I'm stumped. They're such a boring middle-of-the-road franchise. Never that great, never that awful. Never really make any great trades or stupid trades.
   38. mathesond Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4678339)
How about an honourable mention (or deux) for the Expos - the one where they traded Pedro to Boston, and the one where they traded Sizemore, Lee, and company for Colon.

I'd have though San Diego fans would be ok with the return on trading Alomar and Carter, but would be more miffed at the nothing they got back when McGriff was trade to the Braves.
   39. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:54 PM (#4678340)
Rox: Mike Hampton and Juan Pierre for Preston Wilson, Charles Johnson and parts? Hampton resurrected his career in Atlanta, Pierre was a productive out stud in Miami. Wilson had one huge year and that was it. Johnson was useful for one year. And Colorado had to eat a bunch of money.

Another candidate is Chone Figgins for Kimera Bartee
   40. puck Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4678342)
Colorado, huh, I'm stumped. They're such a boring middle-of-the-road franchise. Never that great, never that awful. Never really make any great trades or stupid trades.


I don't think there are any that lamented. (Yet; maybe it will be a Tulo deal.) Maybe the worse one was Chone Figgins for Kimura Bartee.


   41. puck Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4678343)
Rox: Mike Hampton and Juan Pierre for Preston Wilson, Charles Johnson and parts? Hampton resurrected his career in Atlanta, Pierre was a productive out stud in Miami. Wilson had one huge year and that was it. Johnson was useful for one year. And Colorado had to eat a bunch of money.


I don't know that anyone lamented that one, though.
   42. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4678344)
What about Justin Upton for Arizona?

And Ubaldo Jimenez for Colorado? That was upsetting at the time.
   43. Tom Nawrocki Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:00 PM (#4678348)
The Rockies ended up getting nothing for Ubaldo, but Ubaldo wasn't any great shakes either. I don't think they've ever given away a young player who turned into a star elsewhere; the biggest mistakes they've made were turning loose people like Josh Bard and Juan Uribe. The Dexter Fowler trade might well turn out to be the worst in their history, since I'm pretty sure they got exactly nothing for him.

They have made some great trades, though. One year of Matt Holliday for Carlos Gonzalez and Huston Street is tough to beat.
   44. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:01 PM (#4678349)
the most recent update:
Arizona: Justin Upton and Chris Johnson for Randall Delgado, Martin Prado (+others)
Atlanta: Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Mark Teixeira
or Dusty Baker for Lee Lacy, Tom Paciorek, Jerry Royster and Jim Wynn ?
Baltimore: Steve Finley, Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling for Glenn Davis
Boston: Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen
Chicago (AL): Sammy Sosa for George Bell
Chicago (NL): Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio
Cincinnati: Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas
Cleveland: Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn
Colorado: Ubaldo Jimenez for Drew Pomeranz (+others) or Chone Figgins for Kimera Bartee ?
Detroit: John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander
Houston: Joe Morgan for Lee May (+others)
Kansas City: David Cone for Ed Hearn (+others) or Jermaine Dye for Neifi Perez ?
Los Angeles (AL): Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells
Los Angeles (NL): Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields
Miami: Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for six prospects
Milwaukee: Gary Sheffield for Ricky Bones, Matt Mieske and Jose Valentin ?
Minnesota: Johan Santana for Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber ?
New York (AL): Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps
New York (NL): Nolan Ryan (+others) for Jim Fregosi
Oakland: Jeremy Giambi for John Mabry
Pittsburgh: Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton for Jose Hernandez and Bobby Hill
Philadelphia: Ryne Sandberg and Larry Bowa for Ivan DeJesus
San Diego: Fred McGriff for Donnie Elliott and Melvin Nieves
San Francisco: Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for A. J. Pierzynski
Seattle: Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb
St. Louis: Steve Carlton for Rick Wise
Tampa Bay: Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker
Texas: Sammy Sosa, Wilson Alvarez and Scott Fletcher for Harold Baines
Toronto: Michael Young for Esteban Loiaza
Washington/Montreal: Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Lee Stevens for Bartolo Colon
   45. puck Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4678350)
The Rockies ended up getting nothing for Ubaldo, but Ubaldo wasn't any great shakes either.

Plus when he came back and plunked Tulo in Spring Training, I think that took away any residual lament for most people.
   46. JJ1986 Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:03 PM (#4678351)
I think the Amos Otis trade was just as bad for the Mets as the Nolan Ryan trade.
   47. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4678354)
The Jays have had a lot of bad trades. The Olerud one burns me up too though I think the Michael Young trade is mentioned more often.


Oh, for sure. I still remember how E------ L-----'s name was (voluntarily) censored at Batter's Box in the aftermath of that trade and his cutter-enhanced season with the White Sox.
   48. puck Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:05 PM (#4678355)
Hmm, I wonder how trading Vinny Castilla to the Devil Rays was received back then.
   49. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:08 PM (#4678358)
Are there trades not made that fanbases lament?

I think Royals fans lament Baird not pulling the trigger on Robinson Cano for Beltran.


Orioles fans were upset when Angelos quashed a deal for Roy Oswalt. I don't remember all of the details but Miguel Tejada and a couple of other players would have gone to Houston for Oswalt and Morgan Ensberg.
   50. Chris Fluit Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4678359)
Arizona: Justin Upton and Chris Johnson for Randall Delgado, Martin Prado (+others)
Atlanta: Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Mark Teixeira
or Dusty Baker for Lee Lacy, Tom Paciorek, Jerry Royster and Jim Wynn ?
Baltimore: Steve Finley, Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling for Glenn Davis
Boston: Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen
Chicago (AL): Sammy Sosa for George Bell
Chicago (NL): Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio
Cincinnati: Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas
Cleveland: Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn
Colorado: Dexter Fowler for Brandon Barnes and Jordan Lyles or Chone Figgins for Kimera Bartee ?
Detroit: John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander
Houston: Joe Morgan for Lee May (+others)
Kansas City: David Cone for Ed Hearn (+others)
Los Angeles (AL): Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells
Los Angeles (NL): Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields
Miami: Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for six prospects
Milwaukee: Gary Sheffield for Ricky Bones, Matt Mieske and Jose Valentin ?
Minnesota: Johan Santana for Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber ?
New York (AL): Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps
New York (NL): Nolan Ryan (+others) for Jim Fregosi
Oakland: Jeremy Giambi for John Mabry
Pittsburgh: Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton for Jose Hernandez and Bobby Hill
Philadelphia: Ryne Sandberg and Larry Bowa for Ivan DeJesus
San Diego: Fred McGriff for Donnie Elliott and Melvin Nieves
San Francisco: Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano for A. J. Pierzynski
Seattle: Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb
St. Louis: Steve Carlton for Rick Wise
Tampa Bay: Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker
Texas: Sammy Sosa, Wilson Alvarez and Scott Fletcher for Harold Baines
Toronto: Michael Young for Esteban Loiaza
Washington/Montreal: Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore and Lee Stevens for Bartolo Colon
   51. BDC Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:18 PM (#4678362)
In three of those trades in #50, the Rangers were on the (ultimate) receiving end, and all three were key to the 2010-11 pennants.

It also seems like the Cubs and Phillies come up an inordinate number of times in the highest-profile cases, especially if you add in Ferguson Jenkins.
   52. An Athletic in Powderhorn™ Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4678376)
I think the Amos Otis trade was just as bad for the Mets as the Nolan Ryan trade.
I agree. And it doesn't seem as awful in hindsight, but Kazmir for Zambrano was a legendarily stupid trade.

Other A's fans can weigh in, but I don't think that anyone is ruing the Giambi-Mabry trade these days. Giambi had a terrific half-season in Philly, but stunk for Boston the next year and was done. And after the trade, Mabry forgot that he was John F. Mabry and actually hit well the rest of the season.
   53. Sweatpants Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4678387)
Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Matt Harrison and Jarrod Saltalamacchia for Mark Teixeira
Hey, come on. Let's be fair here. The Braves also got Ron Mahay in that deal.

Wainwright, Marquis, and King for J.D. Drew and Marrero isn't far behind the Teixeira deal (if it is at all).
   54. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 28, 2014 at 03:48 PM (#4678388)
I'm in the midst of some last minute baseball draft preparation and I just want to restate how much I love the name "Kole Calhoun".
The only way it could have been better is if they used the same letter for each part of the name (Kole Kalhoun or Cole Calhoun).
It's got a wonderful old-timey feel to it.
   55. Steve N Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:10 PM (#4678401)
Cardinals fans may be upset at Carlton for Wise. Carlton was definitely much better by Wise was a decent pitcher.
   56. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:21 PM (#4678406)
I'd have though San Diego fans would be ok with the return on trading Alomar and Carter, but would be more miffed at the nothing they got back when McGriff was trade to the Braves.


I think you are right about it. I just added the McGriff trade to the Braves to illustrate that the Padres ended up getting almost no return for Alomar.
   57. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4678410)
Miami: Miggy Cabrera deal?


But if they didn't trade Cabrera, doesn't he just sign with someone else as a free agent?
   58. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4678419)
Houston: Joe Morgan for Lee May (+others)


The Reds also got two other key members of their championship teams in that deal, Gold Glove center fielder Cesar Geronimo, and starting pitcher Jack Billingham, in addition to backup outfielder Ed Armbrister (handy to have around if you need a bunt), and Denis Menke, who was the starting third baseman for the 72 NL champions, but was through after that.
   59. EddieA Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:54 PM (#4678422)
Giants traded Gaylord Perry (and Frank Duffy) for Sam McDowell.

Earlier in the year they had obtained Frank Duffy (and Vern Geishert) for George Foster.

   60. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 28, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4678423)
I'm in the midst of some last minute baseball draft preparation and I just want to restate how much I love the name "Kole Calhoun".
The only way it could have been better is if they used the same letter for each part of the name (Kole Kalhoun or Cole Calhoun).
It's got a wonderful old-timey feel to it.


Kurt Cobain was known as Kurdt Kobain in the early days of Nirvana. He should have kept the spelling.
   61. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 28, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4678430)
I'm in the midst of some last minute baseball draft preparation and I just want to restate how much I love the name "Kole Calhoun".
The only way it could have been better is if they used the same letter for each part of the name (Kole Kalhoun or Cole Calhoun).
It's got a wonderful old-timey feel to it.


My favourite name encountered in fantasy prep was Brian Bogusevic. I'd like to believe that Bogusevic is baseball-reference's equivalent of fake streets mapmakers create in order to ward of plagiarism. Somewhere Sean Foreman is thinking "yeah, I'll create a fake player, call him... Bogusevic. The name will make some people suspicious, but if I say he appeared in 146 games for the 2012 Astros, his existence will have an air of credibility. Not even Brad Mills remembers who was on that team."

ETA: even his headshot looks like it might be fake.
   62. BDC Posted: March 28, 2014 at 06:12 PM (#4678440)
Brian Bogusevic

This junior-hockey star out of Winnipeg Central High was mistakenly included on MLB instead of NHL draft lists upon graduation, and chosen by the Astros in the first round when they noticed the scouting report "hard-hitting left-winger." Too polite to mention that he had never played baseball, Bogusevic shone by comparison to other Houston farmhands, who included a hammer-thrower from Estonia and six members of the Curaçao Women's Curling Club. The only player in history to be traded to Miami in a fire sale, Bogusevic will double as a fifth outfielder and beer vendor for the 2014 Marlins.
   63. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 28, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4678449)

But if they didn't trade Cabrera, doesn't he just sign with someone else as a free agent?


He wasn't up for FA for a bit I believe, and there are 28 other teams that would have been interested in him.


The Reds also got two other key members of their championship teams in that deal, Gold Glove center fielder Cesar Geronimo, and starting pitcher Jack Billingham, in addition to backup outfielder Ed Armbrister (handy to have around if you need a bunt), and Denis Menke, who was the starting third baseman for the 72 NL champions, but was through after that.


Acquiring Lee May also blocked John Mayberry for the Astros, allowing them to trade him to KC for Jim York and Lance Clemons, another terrible trade.
   64. The District Attorney Posted: March 28, 2014 at 07:54 PM (#4678453)
To expand (probably unnecessarily) on #52: Scott Kazmir wasn't as good as Nolan Ryan or Amos Otis... but it's perhaps more infuriating, because the thought process was so stupid. It was stupid to trade a top prospect for a veteran who nonetheless allegedly needed to be "fixed" by a pitching coach. And it was stupid to trade a 20-year-old because Al Leiter didn't like his attitude or something (and indeed, Kazmir didn't turn out to be an attitude problem at all.)

Kazmir did, of course, turn out to be a pretty good pitcher.

I assume most fans don't know about trades considered but not made... but it's a fun subject. I believe the D-backs turned down Cano in the Randy Johnson trade. The Mets almost traded David Wright for Jose Cruz Jr.
   65. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: March 28, 2014 at 08:00 PM (#4678456)
Wainwright, Marquis, and King for J.D. Drew and Marrero isn't far behind the Teixeira deal (if it is at all).


I never hear other Braves fans complain about that one, probably because Drew did what we traded for him to do: have an MVP year and win us another division championship, whereas people feel the Teix trade didn't accomplish anything since we never made the postseason with him.
   66. Walt Davis Posted: March 28, 2014 at 09:24 PM (#4678468)
The Lee, etc. for Colon trade was bad enough but the Minaya Expos doubled down by trading Colon for El Duque and two useless players. El Duque never pitched for them -- injured I assume since he didn't pitch for anybody in 2003 then was an FA.

I agree Colavito-Kuenn is the most rued but that series of trades with the Yanks in the early 70s were killer. Nettles for essentially nothing, Chambliss and Tidrow for essentially nothing.

Yes on the Cubs-Phils. No idea why they were such frequent trading partners. It made sense at the start of Dallas Green's reign (and he generally ripped them off blind) but it goes back further. It wasn't just the big deals. Jenkins came over and he brought Adolfo Phillips with him. Gamble and Selma for Callison a few years later. Trillo and Gross for about 15 spare parts. Sandberg but also Sarge, Dernier, Moreland, Ruthven. 5 of the starting 8 position players on the 84 Cubs were courtesy of the Phils and 2 more courtesy of the Cards (Jody Davis a rule 5 pick). Most of that was picked up in exchange for 3 relievers -- Sutter, Willie Hernandez and Bill Campbell. Building an entire offense on three reliever trades.

It was a crazy time. Get this trade -- the 3-way that brought Scott Sanderson to Chicago. Cubs got Sanderson, Expos to the reliever Gary Lucas, Padres got Al Newman, Carmelo Martinez, Craig Lefferts and another useless player. 4 guys, including two pretty good prospects for a reliever. Teams were crazy.

Dallas Green had his faults but he picked a great time to become a great GM for a couple of years.
   67. Jose Canusee Posted: March 28, 2014 at 09:48 PM (#4678473)
Jeremy Giambi for John Mabry was panned at the time but Mabry actually played well for Oakland and Je Giambi was not. CarGo + for Holliday didn't work so well, but then spinning Holliday for Brett Walrus and stuff was worse.
But in retrospect, Ethier for about a year of Milton Bradley is more regrettable, and so is Tim Hudson for three warm bodies.
   68. greenback calls it soccer Posted: March 28, 2014 at 10:11 PM (#4678482)
Cardinals fans may be upset at Carlton for Wise. Carlton was definitely much better by Wise was a decent pitcher.

Yes, Mulder for Haren / Barton / Calero could be close, depending on how you handle the subsequent Wise-Smith trade and money (Carlton was going to get paid). But of course the Cardinals won the World Series twice in six years after the Mulder trade, so that disaster is a bit of a footnote. The Smith-Ferguson trade was terrible as well, but for some reason nobody really recognized just how good Reggie Smith was.
   69. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: March 29, 2014 at 01:50 AM (#4678524)
That Giles for Rincon trade was pretty bad for Cleveland. Mr. Hart seemed like he had no problem trading useful parts for relief pitchers.
   70. Downtown Bookie Posted: March 29, 2014 at 03:54 AM (#4678531)
For the Mets, I see the Nolan Ryan trade seems to be the thread consensus. I'm surprised that there's been no mention of the Tom Seaver trade; a lot of Mets fans became ex-Mets fans that day. Amos Otis has been mentioned; Ken Singleton could probably be in the same class as Otis, though at least the Mets got Rusty Staub in return. Kazmir has been mentioned; truly one of the more bizarre trades, as at least one can see some logic/reasoning behind the others.

Jason Bay (unlike those above) didn't start his career in the Mets organization, but they did have him in the minor leagues before sending him to the Padres. Mets sure could have used his outfield bat during many of those seasons. Oh, and let's not forget Jeff Kent, who has at least an outside shot of joining Seaver and Ryan in the Hall of Fame.

DB

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