Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, April 15, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 4-15-2019

Memphis News Scimitar, April 15, 1919:

In a statement issued by the national baseball commission [in Cincinnati] yesterday, the supreme court of baseball announces that the decision of Judge Stafford…in the suit of the Baltimore Federal league club necessitates no modification of the system under which organized baseball is operating…

The statement follows:
“The decision made by Justice Stafford that organized baseball violated the prohibitions of the Sherman act was not rendered in a suit by the United States to dissolve the combination. The decision, therefore, necessitates no modification of the system under which organized baseball is operating.

Well, they weren’t wrong. They didn’t have to change anything.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 10:24 AM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 10:31 AM (#5831934)
Today's Birthday Team is sneaky-good. I confess I didn't really know what to do with Jim Creighton - there's no statistical record to work from and he died when he was 21 years old, but if he really was the best pitcher of his era, he goes into the rotation because he's better than Aaron Laffey. I always liked Laffey when he was in Cleveland, but he's a junkballer without great control or command.

C: Ed Bailey (27.3 WAR)
1B: Sy Sutcliffe (3.1 WAR)
2B: Hub Collins (15.0 WAR)
3B: Eddie Mayo (4.9 WAR)
SS: Ted Sizemore (16.1 WAR)
LF: Milton Bradley (16.9 WAR)
CF: Willie Davis (60.7 WAR)
RF: Jeromy Burnitz (19.8 WAR)

SP: Jim Creighton (pre-MLB player)
SP: John Danks (20.2 WAR)
SP: Chris Tillman (9.3 WAR)
SP: King Cole (5.6 WAR)
SP: Cinders O'Brien (4.1 WAR)
RP: Aaron Laffey (2.4 WAR)
RP: Billy Brewer (1.9 WAR)

Manager, mostly played shortstop but would maybe (probably?) be a better 3B option than Eddie Mayo if available: Katsumi Shiraishi
Baseball historian in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame: Kenzo Hirose
Fun names who aren't already in the starting lineup: Red Gunkel, Dutch Distel
   2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 11:00 AM (#5831945)
CF: Willie Davis (60.7 WAR)

Got to be on the all under-rated team. I'd never even heard of him until recently.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: April 15, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5831951)
What's the deal with the creepy photo and/or painting of Creighton in the link?

The 1850s did produce some pitchers who tried to deceive batters with "headwork"- which meant changing arcs and speeds, and sometimes bowling wide ones until the frustrated batter lunged at a pitch. (The latter tactic produced such incredible, documented pitch totals as that in the second Atlantic-Excelsior game of 1860, when the Atlantics' Matty O'Brien threw 325 pitches in nine innings, Creighton 280 in seven.)


Today this is know as the "put an inept girl at pitcher" strategy in co-ed softball.

   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 15, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5831981)
Willie Davis is an illustration of what an offensive desert Dodger Stadium was in the late 1960s. In 1967-68, he hit .253 with 13 homers and 60 walks - and that's for the two seasons combined - and still had an OPS+ of 97, which with his strong defense made him a valuable ballplayer.
   5. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 15, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5831992)
1--I really enjoy these teams because it lists so many guys I don't know but can check out and almost every time I find the time spent worth it. Thanks
   6. EddieA Posted: April 15, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5832008)
CF: Willie Davis (60.7 WAR)

Got to be on the all under-rated team. I'd never even heard of him until recently.


Making me feel real old
   7. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 15, 2019 at 01:52 PM (#5832054)
The worst player I ever saw who got over 100 PAs (and actually is north of 600 PAs) is on the roster of the local Lancaster Barnstormers at age 36. That would be the joker of all positions and certainly the master of none, Michael Martinez. Looking at his career, I can't believe that his (b)dWAR is over 0. When the Phils kept him after his dreadful 2011 season, it was obvious that they were no longer serious about winning.

EDIT: Yes, I have an irrational hatred of the guy as a player.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5832058)
1--I really enjoy these teams because it lists so many guys I don't know but can check out and almost every time I find the time spent worth it. Thanks

Seconded.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5832060)
Making me feel real old

I'm not young. He was still active when I started following baseball, but being in the NL, I wouldn't have noticed him.
   10. Davo Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5832062)
Michael Martinez made the final out in the ~most memorable baseball game in history!
   11. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5832065)
but being in the NL, I wouldn't have noticed him.


That would be like me not knowing who Tony Oliva was because I followed the NL. That is hard to believe except that the NL OFs were lead by Mays, Aaron, Robinson and Clemente -- there wasn't much oxygen left after we hyperventilated over those guys.
   12. EddieA Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5832067)
Willie Davis and Bobby Bonds were hanging on the all-time California top list in the long jump as of 2012.

California HS track records

They ran 100 yards, so they might have been among the fastest for the 100 meters too.
   13. Rennie's Tenet Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5832068)
Are the Willie Davises the best pair of players with identical names in different sports?
   14. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:12 PM (#5832069)
Are the Willie Davises the best pair of players with identical names in different sports?

I'd probably go with the Bill Russells.
   15. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5832071)
The Roger Craigs are up there, if you give managerial credit. Do the Patrick Mahomeses count?
   16. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:23 PM (#5832072)
Major fire at the Cathedral of Notre Dame.
   17. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5832077)
CF: Willie Davis (60.7 WAR)

Got to be on the all under-rated team. I'd never even heard of him until recently.


For real? How old are you? (Not being snarky. It's a genuine question that would explain the above statement.)

EDIT: Never mind. Answered above.
   18. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5832084)
For real? How old are you?

48. It was the very beginnings of my fanhood ~1976, and he wasn't very good by then.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5832085)
Major fire at the Cathedral of Notre Dame.

Yes. Terrible disaster. A huge loss for humanity.
   20. Davo Posted: April 15, 2019 at 03:04 PM (#5832089)
My deepest condolences, Snapper. What an awful tragedy.
   21. Davo Posted: April 15, 2019 at 03:05 PM (#5832090)
@CatholicHerald
Crown of Thorns and relic of the True Cross still inside Notre Dame de Paris
   22. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: April 15, 2019 at 03:25 PM (#5832099)
Shiraishi should definitely replace Mayo. The leagues in which he was playing were *VERY* low on offense. Ex., picking a year at random, in 1941 he slugged .344. "Forgivable for a shortstop", you say. The league as a whole slugged 248.
   23. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: April 15, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5832100)
19 is absolutely correct. There is engineering work that modern scientists/engineers still did not understand how those craftspeople made the result achieved. And, of course, the innate beauty of the structure itself.
   24. SandyRiver Posted: April 15, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5832124)
Seeing Willie Davis' name reminds me of the 1st doubleheader I attended, and his lining into a TP during the nightcap. It was an eventful Memorial Day of 1962 at the Polo Grounds before a full house - we ordered our tickets more than a month earlier and got seats in left-center about 400' from the plate. (Dodgers' first visit to NYC since moving west.) In the opener, Maury Wills tripled his career HR total by hitting one from each side, and Sandy Koufax faced 43 batters in a 13-6 CG win, allowing 13 hits and 3 BB while getting 10 Ks, possibly the worst CG of his career.
   25. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 04:28 PM (#5832128)
Shiraishi should definitely replace Mayo. The leagues in which he was playing were *VERY* low on offense. Ex., picking a year at random, in 1941 he slugged .344. "Forgivable for a shortstop", you say. The league as a whole slugged 248.
Yeah, the big problem was that, at least according to BB-Ref, he never played third base. I could have played Ted Sizemore (one career start at 3B) or Hub Collins (three career appearances at 3B) at third to make room for Shiraishi, but that felt like cheating.
   26. Walt Davis Posted: April 15, 2019 at 06:28 PM (#5832182)
Willie Davis is a great WAR example. It's easy to see why he got overlooked so much -- he hit well but not great, he stole bases but not tons, he had just two points of black ink (triples twice). Probably partly due to sharing a league with Mays and Clemente he didn't win any GGs until he was in his 30s despite being an excellent fielder (and recognized as such at least by the time I became a fan in 1970).

But in WAR you see an excellent baserunner (recognized at the time if maybe not properly valued) who avoided DPs (completely ignored at the time) and played excellent defense -- that accounts for 200 of his 230 runs above-average. On the surface he's a solid player like Willie McGee but he easily beats McGee on these peripherals (despite similar career SB/CS numbers) and he lasted about 2.5-3 more seasons. He's very similar to Devon White.

And Dodgers Stadium clearly didn't help his rep. His road OPS is 73 points higher, largely in ISO ... not just HRs but all XBH. But other than maybe another triples title or two, it wouldn't have been enough to turn him into a star.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 06:45 PM (#5832184)
My deepest condolences, Snapper. What an awful tragedy.

And mine to you.
   28. AndrewJ Posted: April 15, 2019 at 06:46 PM (#5832185)
And Dodgers Stadium clearly didn't help his rep. His road OPS is 73 points higher, largely in ISO ... not just HRs but all XBH. But other than maybe another triples title or two, it wouldn't have been enough to turn him into a star.


Playing Jerry Lewis's chauffeur in Which Way to the Front? wasn't enough to turn Willie into a star, either.
   29. stanmvp48 Posted: April 15, 2019 at 06:49 PM (#5832186)
The 62 Dodgers scored more runs than the 61 Yankees.
   30. stanmvp48 Posted: April 15, 2019 at 06:55 PM (#5832187)
Gilliam walked 95 times which I did not realize and is remarkable given his absence of power.
   31. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 07:17 PM (#5832191)
The 61 Tigers scored more runs than the 61 Yankees.
   32. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 15, 2019 at 09:06 PM (#5832239)
It's easy for us younger folk to not be aware of Willie Davis because of his incredibly generic name. Also Reggie Smith, Billy Williams and Jim Perry.
   33. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 15, 2019 at 09:47 PM (#5832262)
It's easy for us younger folk to not be aware of Willie Davis because of his incredibly generic name.

Also, he played at pretty much the exact same time as Tommy Davis, who was much worse.
   34. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 16, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5832376)
Question for Tuesday: What are the best baseball autobiographies/memoirs from notable players and coaches? (the Steve Fireovid, Chris Coste and Dirk Hayhurst type journeyman stories are a different topic)

I have "I Never Had It Made" and Satchel Paige's "Maybe I'll Pitch Forever" and that's about it.
   35. KJOK Posted: April 16, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5832465)
Dick Redding should be in the rotation somewhere.

Dick Redding at seamheads.com

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
BarrysLazyBoy
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogCatch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (October 2019)
(393 - 11:45am, Oct 16)
Last: Manny Coon

NewsblogHowie Kendrick Named NLCS MVP After Nationals Sweep Cardinals
(8 - 11:44am, Oct 16)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogAngels To Hire Joe Maddon
(1 - 11:41am, Oct 16)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogESPN may re-work 'Sunday Night Baseball,' but A-Rod is safe
(19 - 11:35am, Oct 16)
Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...)

NewsblogMLB in talks to implement opioid testing as early as 2020
(2 - 11:35am, Oct 16)
Last: RoyalFlush

NewsblogHow Baseball Cards Got Weird
(18 - 11:32am, Oct 16)
Last: gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant

NewsblogReddick: Yankees fans ‘disrespectful’ for throwing debris
(9 - 11:26am, Oct 16)
Last: Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head

NewsblogOT- Soccer Thread- October 2019
(156 - 11:23am, Oct 16)
Last: The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala.

NewsblogDo Giants' Buster Posey, Johnny Cueto have two of worst MLB contracts?
(7 - 11:20am, Oct 16)
Last: .

NewsblogDog Pee or Scorpions? Cubs Prez Theo Epstein's Wild Landlord-Tenant Dispute
(5 - 11:17am, Oct 16)
Last: .

NewsblogChampionship Series OMNICHATTER!
(759 - 10:59am, Oct 16)
Last: toratoratora

NewsblogLawyer asks for a delay in a case due to the Nationals’ playoff run
(2 - 10:51am, Oct 16)
Last: My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto

NewsblogTyler Skaggs: Fentanyl, oxycodone, alcohol led to death| LA Times
(66 - 10:41am, Oct 16)
Last: My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto

NewsblogMLB Rumors: Curt Schilling Interested in Phillies Manager, Red Sox Coaching Job
(21 - 9:19am, Oct 16)
Last: Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)

NewsblogWhy Carlos Correa's walk-off homer was even more special for a Houston teen battling cancer
(10 - 9:09am, Oct 16)
Last: Cris E

Page rendered in 0.4195 seconds
46 querie(s) executed