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Tuesday, April 24, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 4-24-2018

Toledo News-Bee, April 24, 1918:

A new swatting crown—the timely hitting championship—will be awarded in the American League this year.

Two new columns—“runners scored” and “chances offered”—have been added to official box scores.

In the first column the batter is to be credited with all runs scored as direct result of his hits, bases on balls, sacrifices, infield outs and being hit by pitched balls.

In the “chances offered” column, he is to be charged with the number of men on bases when he comes to bat. Each runner represents a man whom he has opportunity to put across.

Well done, old timey people.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:08 AM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, stats

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5658929)
Today's Birthday Team features three of the best position players of the past 20-30 years and a deep pitching staff.

C: Welington Castillo (11.97 WAR)
1B: Jim Field (2.5 WAR)
2B: Joe Wagner (-0.83 WAR)
3B: Mike Blowers (4.31 WAR)
SS: Omar Vizquel (45.57 WAR)
LF: Chipper Jones (85.21 WAR)
CF: Carlos Beltran (69.79 WAR)
RF: Steven Souza (6.17 WAR)

SP: Andy Cooper (0 WAR, Negro Leagues star)
SP: Howard Ehmke (37.89 WAR)
SP: Bob Ewing (29.79 WAR)
SP: Bill Singer (18.9 WAR)
SP: Harry Harper (12.03 WAR)
RP: Pat Zachry (10.71 WAR)
RP: Todd Jones (10.34 WAR)

Manager: Frank Lucchesi
Coach, broadcaster in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame: Masatake Yamanaka
Fun name: Pug Griffin
Umpires: Lou DiMuro, Terry Tata
   2. Tom T Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5658931)
three of the best position players of the past 20-30 years


That seems a bit of an oversell on Castillo, but...<shrug>.
   3. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5658933)
For what it's worth, position player WAR leaders, 1989-2018
                                                                                                          
Rk               Player WAR/pos From   To   BA  OBP  SLG   OPS                                          Tm
1           Barry Bonds   147.3 1989 2007 .305 .460 .631 1.092                                     PIT-SFG
2        Alex Rodriguez   117.8 1994 2016 .295 .380 .550  .930                                 SEA-TEX-NYY
3         Albert Pujols    99.4 2001 2018 .305 .385 .560  .945                                     STL-LAA
4         Adrian Beltre    94.1 1998 2018 .287 .340 .481  .821                             LAD-SEA-BOS-TEX
5         Chipper Jones    85.2 1993 2012 .303 .401 .529  .930                                         ATL
6           Ken Griffey    83.8 1989 2010 .284 .370 .538  .907                                 SEA-CHW-CIN
7          Jeff Bagwell    79.9 1991 2005 .297 .408 .540  .948                                         HOU
8          Frank Thomas    73.9 1990 2008 .301 .419 .555  .974                                 CHW-OAK-TOR
9             Jim Thome    72.9 1991 2012 .276 .402 .554  .956                     CLE-CHW-LAD-MIN-BAL-PHI
10         Larry Walker    72.7 1989 2005 .313 .400 .565  .965                                 MON-COL-STL
11          Derek Jeter    72.4 1995 2014 .310 .377 .440  .817                                         NYY
12          Scott Rolen    70.2 1996 2012 .281 .364 .490  .855                             PHI-STL-TOR-CIN
13       Carlos Beltran    69.8 1998 2017 .279 .350 .486  .837                 KCR-NYM-SFG-STL-NYY-TEX-HOU
14        Manny Ramirez    69.4 1993 2011 .312 .411 .585  .996                         CLE-BOS-LAD-CHW-TBR
15       Miguel Cabrera    69.2 2003 2018 .317 .395 .552  .947                                     FLA-DET
16      Rafael Palmeiro    69.0 1989 2005 .288 .373 .519  .892                                     TEX-BAL
17       Ivan Rodriguez    68.7 1991 2011 .296 .334 .464  .798                     TEX-FLA-DET-NYY-HOU-WSN
18         Kenny Lofton    68.3 1991 2007 .299 .372 .423  .794 HOU-CLE-ATL-CHW-SFG-PIT-CHC-NYY-PHI-LAD-TEX
19       Edgar Martinez    68.3 1989 2004 .311 .418 .516  .934                                         SEA
20        Robinson Cano    67.1 2005 2018 .305 .355 .494  .849                                     NYY-SEA
...
36           Mike Trout    56.3 2011 2018 .306 .410 .568  .978                                         LAA
...
44       Dustin Pedroia    52.3 2006 2017 .300 .366 .441  .807                                         BOS
45           Cal Ripken    52.3 1989 2001 .273 .333 .434  .767                                         BAL
...
60         Omar Vizquel    45.6 1989 2012 .272 .336 .352  .688                     SEA-CLE-SFG-TEX-CHW-TOR
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 4/24/2018.
   4. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5658938)
From the biography of Hughie Jennings I learned that in the 19th century the home team got to choose whether they batted first or last. When did that rule change? Not exactly sure what to search to find that information.

I've also been reading a collection of Tom Boswell columns from the early 70s. Did you know that in the last Senators season before they moved to Texas, Elliott Maddox had a "Free Angela Davis" sticker above his locker? Boswell describes him as the leader of... not the black contingent in the clubhouse, but the young and rebellious contingent in the clubhouse.
   5. puck Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5658940)
The Rockies are off to weird start, with a 12-12 record despite being outscored 98 to 128. After last night's blowout to the Padres (9-run inning), the Rockies have been outscored 42-70 at home and have a 3-7 record. BB-ref has them 0-5 in blowouts.

Probably worth a thread: Perry also mentioned in the game chatter last night that Jenny Cavnar did the play by play on the TV broadcast and is the 3rd woman to do so. I think she worked for the Padres before the Rockies; her dad is a Colorado high school coach. She's done pbp on the radio before.

She doesn't have a great play by play voice to me...she doesn't always enunciate. But the regular guy, Drew Goodman does have a traditional pbp voice but I think he strikes most as a "meh" pbp guy.

The new sideline reporter, Taylor McGregor, has not been good so far. She sounds really nervous. She's the daughter of the former club President Keli McGregor, who passed away during the start of the 2010 season.


   6. salvomania Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5658950)
SP: Bill Singer (18.9 WAR)

Bill Singer is probably barely remembered today, but he was a fine pitcher who won 20 games twice and was traded (along with Frank Robinson) for Andy Messersmith (and others) as well as (with others) for Bert Blyleven (and others).

(My first recollection of him, based on 1970s baseball cards, is that he had a really long neck, second maybe only to Eddie Brinkman).

Singer also finished third in his league in strikeouts three times (1968, 1969, 1973) and was an original Blue Jay, finishing his career with them in 1977 after one injury-marred season.
   7. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5658954)
I think Drew Goodman is ok. If I were a Rockies fan I'd probably like him a lot.
   8. Perry Posted: April 24, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5658957)
She doesn't have a great play by play voice to me...she doesn't always enunciate. But the regular guy, Drew Goodman does have a traditional pbp voice but I think he strikes most as a "meh" pbp guy.


I don't think they did her any favors by making her work a 3-person booth. Two would have worked better, I think -- she sometimes struggled to get a word in and seemed reticent to do so.

Personally, I like Drew Goodman just fine, the weakness in the Rockies' booth over the years has always been the analyst, whether it was George Frazier, who was truly unbearable, or Huson, who's just sort of blah. Spilborghs is quite good, they ought to just give him the job and forget the rest.
   9. Ziggy's screen name Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5658961)
2B: Joe Wagner (-0.83 WAR)


It's got to be tough to be a less successful little brother.
   10. RJ in TO Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5658966)
Bill Singer is probably barely remembered today, but he was a fine pitcher who won 20 games twice and was traded (along with Frank Robinson) for Andy Messersmith (and others) as well as (with others) for Bert Blyleven (and others).

(My first recollection of him, based on 1970s baseball cards, is that he had a really long neck, second maybe only to Eddie Brinkman).

Singer also finished third in his league in strikeouts three times (1968, 1969, 1973) and was an original Blue Jay, finishing his career with them in 1977 after one injury-marred season.
Not just an original Blue Jay, but the starter for their first game ever.
   11. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5658970)
Is Spilborghs normally like roaming the stands looking for interesting people to talk to these days? I think I remember seeing him on one of the games I watched last week.
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5659002)
From the biography of Hughie Jennings I learned that in the 19th century the home team got to choose whether they batted first or last. When did that rule change? Not exactly sure what to search to find that information.

Did it change? I think they might still have the option.
   13. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5659010)
Is Spilborghs normally like roaming the stands looking for interesting people to talk to these days? I think I remember seeing him on one of the games I watched last week.


The Rockies usually have a two-man booth, with either Spilborghs or Huson providing the color. When Spilborghs isn't doing color, he's often in the stands, although Huson never is. If the Rox have some sort of plan or system for how they line up their broadcasters, I can't figure out what it is.

I'm fine with Drew Goodman in the booth - he's not great, but he's at least a B-minus. He's favorably inclined toward modern metrics, for those of you who think it's important for broadcasters to talk about such things, and Spilborghs is clearly very into that stuff. Huson's OK, but as long as they got rid of the execrable George Frazier, I'm happy with whoever's left.

The new sideline reporter, Taylor McGregor, has not been good so far. She sounds really nervous. She's the daughter of the former club President Keli McGregor, who passed away during the start of the 2010 season.


I'm surprised to see she's been doing TV sports for a few years now, most recently as a sports anchor in Little Rock.
   14. salvomania Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5659019)
Jenny Cavnar did the play by play on the TV broadcast

After I saw this mentioned in last night's chatter I switched over to that game to check her out, and my immediate impression is that her sound was way off (from a production standpoint). She doesn't have the most commanding delivery to begin with, and she was completely buried in the mix between the others in the booth and the ambient game noise. It may have just been a lack of projection on her part, but I think the guys in the truck have a way to correct for that, which didn't seem to be the case last night.
   15. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5659048)
Between the Phillies games I've been checking out other broadcast teams on MLB.tv. The Angels announcers are fun to listen to. The Pirates announcers are incredibly boring. No other strong observations so far. Everyone (Mariners, Royals, A's, Giants) seems good compared to the Pirates.
   16. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5659059)
Between the Phillies games I've been checking out other broadcast teams on MLB.tv. The Angels announcers are fun to listen to. The Pirates announcers are incredibly boring. No other strong observations so far. Everyone (Mariners, Royals, A's, Giants) seems good compared to the Pirates.


The Red Sox team was disappointingly boring. I used to like Don Orsillo and I guess Jerry Remy had the night off or doesn't do the games anymore
   17. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5659090)
From the biography of Hughie Jennings I learned that in the 19th century the home team got to choose whether they batted first or last. When did that rule change? Not exactly sure what to search to find that information.


"Total Baseball" had a great section where they listed the rules and scoring changes for every season.

The rule that the home team bats last was adopted in 1950. Prior to that, "The choice of innings shall be given to the captain of the home club."

In 1950, this wording was introduced as to the start of the game:

"The players of the home team shall take their defensive positions, the first batter of the visiting team shall take his position in the batter's box, the umpire shall call 'Play', and the game shall proceed."
   18. salvomania Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5659091)
Everyone (Mariners, Royals, A's, Giants) seems good compared to the Pirates.

Believe it or not, the Reds are even worse. Cardinals are pretty bad, too.
   19. Mike Webber Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5659096)
IIRC - 1949 Leo Durocher was managing the Giants, and he would decided occasionally to bat first because of the way the shadows were falling at the Polo Grounds.

I think Durocher was like Charlie Finley, that anything he did the league didn't like - legal or not. So they abolished it. If Durocher or Finley had become a crazy fielding shift proponent they likely would have outlawed it.
   20. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5659098)
According to Retrosheet, the last time the home team batted first in an MLB game was on June 26, 1913, when the Washington Senators batted first in the second game of a doubleheader against the White Sox.
   21. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5659101)
Between the Phillies games I've been checking out other broadcast teams on MLB.tv.
I'm admittedly biased, but Len Kasper and Jim Deshaies for the Cubs are everything you could ever want in a broadcast team.
   22. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5659104)
Len and JD are very good. Jason Bonetti does a good job with the White Sox. I'm happy with the Mets team even though they are a little 'man yelling at cloud' sometimes. They don't hesitate to criticize the team which I like. Some of these announcers bend over backwards to praise the home team and it's kind of annoying. The Cardinals are chief offenders. Rex Hudler for the Royals is terrible. Brennaman is terrible for the Reds.
   23. Perry Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5659108)
Cardinals are pretty bad, too.


Kinda like the Rockies, the PBP guy (Dan McLaughlin) is fine, the analysts (Hrabosky, Ricky Horton, McCarver, occasionally Jim Edmonds, and lately a couple of games with Brad Thompson) are mostly terrible.

Best crews for me are the Mets and Giants, to the point that they actively draw me to the broadcasts even though I don't care about either team. I listened to the A's (with Duane Kuiper's brother on PBP) during Manaea's no-hitter and thought they were pretty good.

I guess Jerry Remy had the night off or doesn't do the games anymore


Must have been the former, he's been on several games I've caught this year.
   24. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5659131)
Giants


I agree they are very good! Dodgers broadcasters are cromulent but not earthshattering. Watched the Angels last night and they are not great. I've always wanted to write a book giving a report card to all the broadcast teams but now a lot of them are very similar to each other.
   25. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5659137)
I checked the play-by-play for the 1949 Giants, and they batted last in every home game.
   26. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5659176)
Kinda like the Rockies, the PBP guy (Dan McLaughlin) is fine, the analysts (Hrabosky, Ricky Horton, McCarver, occasionally Jim Edmonds, and lately a couple of games with Brad Thompson) are mostly terrible.


Phillies PBP guy Tom McCarthy is very good. Analysts: Ben Davis is fine, John Kruk is dumb and boring. Mike Schmidt only talks about 5% of the time, is only on weekends and he doesn't say anything brilliant, but he's MIKE SCHMIDT and he's pretty authentic, non-clichéd and open-minded about things.

Haven't listened to the radio broadcasts recently, but I know they've reduced the role of Larry Andersen and implemented an innovative "College of Kevins" system.
   27. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5659182)
I liked Tom McCarthy when he was doing radio for the Mets and I think he does a very good job on TV for the Phils. Harry Kalas, of course, is the gold standard for announcers in my opinion. And I'm a Met fan.
   28. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5659191)
he's MIKE SCHMIDT and he's pretty authentic, non-clichéd and open-minded about things
...give or take an Odubel Herrera.
   29. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5659218)
I find the Cleveland TV guys to be completely vanilla. They aren't obnoxious but aren't great, are occasionally insightful but not regularly so, and do everything reasonably well.

This isn't intended as an insult - there are enough genuinely awful broadcast teams that 'competent and unremarkable' is just fine with me.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5659337)
I think Durocher was like Charlie Finley, that anything he did the league didn't like - legal or not. So they abolished it. If Durocher or Finley had become a crazy fielding shift proponent they likely would have outlawed it.

To be fair, Durocher was a colossal #######. He was blackballed from the American league for stealing from his teammates, he ran a crooked card game, and would have been the poster boy if #MeToo came 50 years earlier.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: April 24, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5659383)
Both Kuipers are good. I've always liked Gary Thorne and he was teamed with Jim Palmer (still on occasion!) the other day which was a pleasant throwback. (Thorne is a traditionalist these days which doesn't play as well as it used to but he still does a good job calling the game.) He's not exciting but I've always liked Buck Martinez's voice. For some reason I'm always a bit curious about former players who become pbp guys, they're clearly guys who really took their new profession seriously (well, except for Hawk).

Chip Caray is still a disaster. There are some I won't listen to (Yanks, Royals, Cin, Hawk ... is he still around?) which means on rare occasion I encounter Tampa or Pitt or whoever which are usually OK but still give the feel that they are the AAAA broadcasters hoping to move up to the majors.

I can's say that I've ever watched the Hou or Tex feeds. We get a lot of "popular" MLB.com highlights in our commercial breaks down here and there's a heavy rotation of Nats -- and that guy sounds horrific ("SEE ... YOU ... LATER"). I'm frightened to try the Marlins, they're probably using a Uber driver to save money.
   32. Walt Davis Posted: April 24, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5659388)
FWIW, I don't care whether they incorporate saber stuff into the broadcast. If they're "anti-saber", that annoys me but I'm fine with a "traditional" announcing crew. I want a PBP guy (or gal!) with a good voice that has some clue about how to fill up dead air (they're going to fill it whether they have a clue or not) and that the PBP and color guy appear to get along and are just genuinely pleasant. I never had a big problem with Joe Morgan as a broadcaster, especially teamed with Jon Miller, because they ticked those boxes. At one point ESPN decided Morgan had to have a 3-minute soapbox spiel against the evils of the modern game and those were painful but I blame that more on ESPN being ESPN.

I recall old BBTN, probably circa 2000, and they decided to have an exciting debate about which Chicago RF you would rather have, Sosa or Ordonez. As he was introducing the piece, the host started to say "for the rest of their careers" but then called an audible and went with "for just this year." The first analyst "chose" Sosa and made all the obvious arguments why you'd rather have Sammy 2000. Then poor old Dave Campbell was the second analyst and he went on a great short rant of "First you make me choose Ordonez then you take away the only possible argument I have which is his age by making it about this year only. What am I supposed to say?"

Just remember that a lot of stupid stuff these folks say is because they've been assigned the stupid side of the "debate." They're often playing a role. On a local broadcast, that role is often "homer" and if you're the color guy for a lousy team, you're gonna end up saying a lot of stupidly optimistic stuff about your players.
   33. AndrewJ Posted: April 24, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5659552)
Manager: Frank Lucchesi

Happy 91st. I've seen photos from his tenure as Phillies manager, and he looked ancient when he was 43.

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