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Tuesday, May 03, 2011

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-3-2011

75 years ago today, Joe DiMaggio made his Yankees debut, going 3-for-6 with a triple and three runs scored.

AP, May 4, 1936:

The baseball world knows today that Joe di Maggio of the Yankees, the most publicized rookie of the season, is a baseball player of the first water.

The black-haired, quiet lad who came up from the Pacific coast heralded as the find of a decade, has been accepted into baseball’s upper crust after a debut that was as impressive as his advance notices.

The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee) Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:22 AM | 59 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout

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   1. kthejoker Posted: May 03, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3816515)
"Dimaggio" and "black-haired" are redundant.

/dago
   2. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 03:21 PM (#3816571)
Today is the 10th anniversary of David Wells' most asinine moment, as well as a list of other baseball events celebrating their anniversary and "day-versary" today.
   3. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 03:27 PM (#3816582)
Actually, based on the link in post #2, I have two questions, each based on an item from the baseball anniversaries:

FIRST:
1980 Willie McCovey hits his last home run. The opposing pitcher is Scott Sanderson, whose career will end in 1996, 37 years after McCovey’s began. Early his career McCovey homered off of Warren Spahn, who debuted in 1942. So that’s a 54-year split between McCovey gopher ball victims. I don’t know how that rates in history, but it sure is impressive.


I asked this last night in the lounge: is there anyone with a bigger split than the 54 years with McCovey. The lounge came up with Yaz, who homered off Early Wynn (1939 debut) and Mike Morgan (2002 finale). That's 63 years. Can anyone top that.

SECOND:
1990 34-year-old Robin Yount hits his sixth and final inside-the-park homer, giving him at least one in three different decades. I wonder how many post-WWII players can say that?


Are there any other post-WWII players who hit inside the park homers in three different decades?

Asking because I don't know of any answers.
   4. Bob Evans Posted: May 03, 2011 at 04:53 PM (#3816685)
Can anyone top that.

Anyone who homered off of Satchel Paige probably qualifies. ;-)
   5. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 03, 2011 at 05:33 PM (#3816735)

I asked this last night in the lounge: is there anyone with a bigger split than the 54 years with McCovey. The lounge came up with Yaz, who homered off Early Wynn (1939 debut) and Mike Morgan (2002 finale). That's 63 years. Can anyone top that.


Are there any other post-WWII players who hit inside the park homers in three different decades?


If I get fired, this will be why.

Some names I've checked so far that come up short;

Question 1 - Rickey, Tim McCarver

Question 2 - George Brett, Willie Wilson
   6. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:14 PM (#3816779)
Anyone who homered off of Satchel Paige probably qualifies. ;-)

The Lounge noted that Yaz faced him, but only hit a double.

If I get fired, this will be why.

At least it'll be for a good cause.
   7. BDC Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:26 PM (#3816797)
Anyone who homered off of Satchel Paige probably qualifies. ;-)

Mickey Mantle hit home runs off both Paige and Tommy John. If we take Paige's debut as 1927 with Birmingham, that's 62 years till John retired in 1989.
   8. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:27 PM (#3816799)
I asked this last night in the lounge: is there anyone with a bigger split than the 54 years with McCovey. The lounge came up with Yaz, who homered off Early Wynn (1939 debut) and Mike Morgan (2002 finale). That's 63 years. Can anyone top that.


This one has potential, but it will take a while to flesh out. Troy Tulowitzki homered off of Roger Clemens.
   9. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:34 PM (#3816806)
Reggie Jackson homered off of Hoyt Wilhelm (1952), and Roger Clemens (2007). That's only 55 years, but it does beat McCovey.
   10. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:37 PM (#3816809)
...and Reggie Jackson, who debuted in 1967, also homered off of Roger Clemens.

Edit: GMTA
   11. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:38 PM (#3816812)
Yaz is still the man, though. So far anyway.
   12. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:40 PM (#3816814)
Next best I can find so far is Rusty Staub. Joe Nuxall (1944) and Dennis Eckersley (1998).
   13. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:43 PM (#3816815)
Jim Kaat homered off Dick Donovan (1950 start) and Joe Niekro (1988 finish). Yeah, nowhere near as much as Yaz or McCovey or the others, but he was a pitcher.
   14. Good cripple hitter Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:49 PM (#3816822)
I hate to interrupt the home run fun, but Jo Jo Reyes is starting for the Jays tonight. He's winless on the season, and he hasn't won a game in his last 23 starts. His last win was on June 13, 2008. I tried to see if that was a major league record for consecutive starts without a win and the only thing I found was a Jayson Stark article from 2004 that claimed that the record was 19 starts by Dan Wright. Even if it's not a record, it's still an impressively bad streak.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 03, 2011 at 06:59 PM (#3816833)
Willie Mays homered off of:

Dutch Leonard (debut 1933) and
Steve Carlton (retired 1988)

55 years. Best I could do.
   16. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:01 PM (#3816836)

I hate to interrupt the home run fun, but Jo Jo Reyes is starting for the Jays tonight. He's winless on the season, and he hasn't won a game in his last 23 starts. His last win was on June 13, 2008. I tried to see if that was a major league record for consecutive starts without a win and the only thing I found was a Jayson Stark article from 2004 that claimed that the record was 19 starts by Dan Wright. Even if it's not a record, it's still an impressively bad streak.


The first name to come to mind was Anthony Young, who dropped 27 consecutive decisions, but I'm not sure all of them were starts.
   17. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:04 PM (#3816838)
What's the longest current streak? I've got Juan Gonzales homering off of Bert Blyleven, and both Mark Buehrle and Johan Santana. That's currently at 41 and could break 50.
   18. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:08 PM (#3816841)
What's the longest current streak?

I looked briefly at Julio Franco. He homered off of Phil Niekro (debuted '64) and Jake Westbrook. There could have been additional active pitchers he homered against.
   19. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:10 PM (#3816845)
The first name to come to mind was Anthony Young, who dropped 27 consecutive decisions, but I'm not sure all of them were starts.


You are correct. A good number of those losses were in relief. But between 1992 and 1994, he had 27 consecutive winless starts (during that streak, he did win 2 games in relief).
   20. BDC Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#3816855)
Griffey Jr. homered off Nolan Ryan, which takes him to 45 years with numerous active pitchers. Joba Chamberlain is one of the younger and better ones. Somehow I don't think Joba is going to make it the 19 years that will be needed.
   21. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:26 PM (#3816858)
Mike Schmidt homered off of Milt Pappas (1957) and Jamie Moyer (2010).

OK, Moyer hasn't played this year, but if he does comeback, that's tough to beat for current guys.
   22. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:28 PM (#3816860)
I take it back:

Bill Madlock homered off of Jim Kaat (1959 start) and Jaime Moyer (2010 end?).

Dang! Bill Madlock?? It's all about timing, I guess.
   23. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:31 PM (#3816866)
Ryne Sandberg homered off Steve Carlton (1965 starts) and Tim Wakefield (still going).
   24. SoSH U at work Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3816869)
The first name to come to mind was Anthony Young, who dropped 27 consecutive decisions, but I'm not sure all of them were starts.


And the name that immediately jumps to mind for me is former Twin Terry Felton, who went 0-16 in his big league career. He only got 10 starts however.
   25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3816872)
Rickey Henderson homered off Tommy John (started in 1963) and a few guys who are still at it: Kerry Wood, Kyle Farnsworth, Ted Lilly.
   26. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3816874)

What's the longest current streak? I've got Juan Gonzales homering off of Bert Blyleven, and both Mark Buehrle and Johan Santana. That's currently at 41 and could break 50.


Ryne Sandberg homered off Steve Carlton (1965) and Tim Wakefield. 45 years, although it could be coming to an end soon.

If Russ Springer were to make a comeback this year, Dave Winfield homered off him and Bob Gibson (1959) - 51 years.

Gary Gaetti homered off Vida Blue (1969) and Bruce Chen, Darren Oliver and Octavio Dotel

BJ Surhoff homered off Jerry Reuss (1969) and active players like Dustin McGowan, RA Dickey, Freddie Garcia and Derek Lowe

Rickey homered off Mike Marshall (1967) and active players like Kyle Farnsworth, Darren Oliver, Ted Lilly, Kerry Wood, Latroy Hawkins and Brett Tomko

Fred McGriff homered off Joe Niekro (1967) and active players like Roy Oswalt, Javy Vazquez, Vincente Padilla, Brad Penny, Rafael Soriano, Jamey Wright, Carl Pavano, Bruce Chen, Roy Halladay and Joel Pineiro

Andres Galarraga homered off Steve Carlton (1965) and active players like Brad Penny, Roy Oswalt, Jason Marquis, Chris Carpenter and Randy Wolf
   27. esseff Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:39 PM (#3816879)
Jim Kaat homered off Dick Donovan (1950 start) and Joe Niekro (1988 finish). Yeah, nowhere near as much as Yaz or McCovey or the others, but he was a pitcher.


Red Ruffing homered off Hooks Dauss (1912) and Hal Newhouser (1955). Best I've found for pitchers as batters.

Others I checked were Warren Spahn (Harry Brecheen 1940-Ray Culp 1973) and Jack Quinn (Some nignog pitcher I've already forgotten 1902-some other nignog pitcher I've already forgotten 1936). And this just in, Wes Ferrell (Herb Pennock 1912-Bobo Newsom 1952), putting Ferrell second to Ruffing.
   28. BDC Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:39 PM (#3816881)
Felipe Alou (and several other guys) homered off Warren Spahn (1942) and Nolan Ryan (1993). Amazing about that, of course, is that Spahn's career is adjacent to Ryan's, ending in 1965 while Ryan's began in 1966.
   29. Daft Wullie Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:49 PM (#3816888)
Other batters with 50+ years - Ty Cobb hit one off of Jesse Tannehill (debut in 1894) and Mel Harder (1947), Tony Perez off of Warren Spahn (1942) and Dennis Martinez (1998), Pete Rose off of Spahn and Scott Sanderson (1996), and Dave Winfield off of Bob Gibson (1959) and Randy Johnson (2009).
   30. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:52 PM (#3816890)
The winner may be as yet unknown, but I think we can agree that Scott Sanderson is the least significant pitcher involved in any of these combos.
   31. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 07:56 PM (#3816897)
Felipe Alou (and several other guys) homered off Warren Spahn (1942) and Nolan Ryan (1993). Amazing about that, of course, is that Spahn's career is adjacent to Ryan's, ending in 1965 while Ryan's began in 1966.


Ernie banks also homered off of Ryan, but though he debuted in 1953, and hit 19 HR in 1954, the earliest he has is Spahn also.
   32. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 08:13 PM (#3816915)
Using the pitcher as the bridge, I've got Banks (1953) - Ryan - Griffey (2010). 57 years.
   33. zack Posted: May 03, 2011 at 08:27 PM (#3816937)
Willie Stargell: Warren Spahn and Jesse Orosco (61 years)
   34. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 03, 2011 at 08:38 PM (#3816947)
Cal Ripken homered off Gaylord Perry (1962) and active pitchers Burnett, Mulder, Wakefield, Chad Durbin, Darren Oliver.

Burnett and Mulder debuted only a couple years before Ripken retired, so they are the best ones to continue it beyond the 49 it's up to now. Probably won't get to 63...
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: May 03, 2011 at 08:48 PM (#3816961)
Burnett and Mulder debuted only a couple years before Ripken retired, so they are the best ones to continue it beyond the 49 it's up to now.


I'll put my money on Burnett lasting longer.
   36. BDC Posted: May 03, 2011 at 08:50 PM (#3816965)
Mel Ott, as near as I can determine, connects Grover Cleveland Alexander (1911) to Ralph Branca (1956). "Only" 45 years, and one factor is the war: the pitchers of 1945 (the last year Ott homered) were not likely to be very young or very longevitous. Branca was on the "either too young" scale of things in '45, and his career would be over when he was 30.
   37. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 03, 2011 at 09:05 PM (#3816987)
Mel Ott, as near as I can determine, connects Grover Cleveland Alexander (1911) to Ralph Branca (1956). "Only" 45 years, and one factor is the war: the pitchers of 1945 (the last year Ott homered) were not likely to be very young or very longevitous. Branca was on the "either too young" scale of things in '45, and his career would be over when he was 30.


True, but sans the war, who were the longest lasting pitchers he could conceivable have homered off of? Spahn probably, and that gives you 54 years.
   38. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: May 03, 2011 at 09:36 PM (#3817030)
Follow that AP link and then click around a bit. there are some nutty things in there.
   39. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:08 AM (#3817303)
Burnett and Mulder debuted only a couple years before Ripken retired, so they are the best ones to continue it beyond the 49 it's up to now.



I'll put my money on Burnett lasting longer.


Yeah, I don't know where my mind wandered, but I replaced "Mark Mulder" with "Tim Hudson" when I saw his name on the home run list.
Obviously, Mulder won't be continuing on...
   40. Good cripple hitter Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:24 AM (#3817327)
Funny stuff: Jo-Jo Reyes pitched well and left the game with a 2-1 lead. Jon Rauch then blew the save and BJ Upton hit a walkoff home run to give Reyes the no-decision.
   41. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:42 AM (#3817353)
More funny stuff: I have no idea which team either Jo-Jo Reyes or Jon Rauch are on right now.
   42. Good cripple hitter Posted: May 04, 2011 at 01:53 AM (#3817369)
Toronto. See post 14 for context.
   43. Cris E Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:00 AM (#3817379)
Not saying anything in particular, but you might want to check out the hits column in the MN-CHW game. There's no way he can keep this up! (5 BB but no hits...)
   44. Cris E Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:11 AM (#3817391)
bottom of the ninth - liriano with a no hitter
   45. Cris E Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:19 AM (#3817411)
woot!
   46. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:26 AM (#3817428)
liriano's rotation spot was in jeopardy as he's been pretty terrible this year. even in the no-no, he had 6 bb and 2 k...
   47. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:31 AM (#3817438)
83 game score for Liriano tonight. Is that the worst game score for a no hitter? Or at least for a shutout no-hitter?
   48. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:43 AM (#3817451)
Could be. Ken Holtzman pitched an 84, 3 BB, no K.
   49. Good cripple hitter Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:46 AM (#3817459)
According to this list that I found online, it is the worst. Holtzman, Joe Cowley, and George Culver were previously died for the worst at 84.
   50. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:54 AM (#3817468)
Of course, Andy Hawkins's 8 IP 4-0 loss scores at 72, but it's no longer official.
   51. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:55 AM (#3817470)
Cool, thanks Misirlou and GCH.
   52. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 04, 2011 at 02:59 AM (#3817472)
Of course, Andy Hawkins's 8 IP 4-0 loss scores at 72, but it's no longer official.


Along those lines, Matt Young's 8-inning, 2-1 no-hit loss to the Indians checks in at 73.
   53. Santanaland Diaries Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:02 AM (#3817475)
I noticed Johnny Vander Meer's two are both in the worst 30.
   54. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 04, 2011 at 03:07 AM (#3817482)
   55. Walt Davis Posted: May 04, 2011 at 10:21 AM (#3817609)
Huh, thought I'd posted this but ... Rose has the same Spahn to Sanderson run as McCovey.

It occurred to me that Aaron kinda gets screwed in that he didn't get many chances against Spahn or Niekro. Seems Tanana and Ryan are his latest (1993) and Sal Maglie and Johnny Hetki (1945) were the earliest I found so that's only 48. Alas, Vinegar Bend Mizell only sounded like he pitched in the 20s.
   56. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: May 04, 2011 at 12:22 PM (#3817641)
Ted Williams - Red Ruffing (1924) to Jim Perry (1975)

Sam Crawford - Kid Nichols and Cy Young (1890) to Red Faber (1933). Only 43 years, however, Sam's career was all deadball era (only 97 career homeruns)
   57. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: May 04, 2011 at 12:45 PM (#3817654)
Harold Baines: Gaylord Perry (1962), Roy Halladay (2011). Currently at 49. Won't reach 63, but should shoot past most others.
   58. kthejoker Posted: May 04, 2011 at 08:31 PM (#3818110)
Willie Mays hit one off Jerry Reuss, so that pushes him up to 57.
   59. kthejoker Posted: May 04, 2011 at 08:38 PM (#3818122)
I guess the pitchers themselves should be examined: Steve Carlton (Jerry Reuss, 1966), Fernando Valenzuela (1997) gives him 41. Not too shabby.

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