Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, May 17, 2017

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-17-2017

Pittsburgh Press, May 17, 1917:

The latest strategy to be used against spitball pitchers has been invented this season by Louis Guisto, Cleveland Indian first baseman now serving his first year in the majors.
...
Bert Gallia of Washington was Guisto’s first victim. Gallia had worked with the moistened ball only part of an inning when his face twisted in anguish as he moistened his fingers to toss up the pill.
...
[Catcher Jack] Henry called Tom Connolly, who was umpiring the game. Connolly sniffed the ball suspiciously.

“I see in this the fine Italian hand of Guisto,” he decided.

Guisto admitted doctoring the ball with garlic.

“I didn’t intend to do it, but garlic is my favorite dish and somehow it got on the ball.

Seems like this sort of thing would have been the best way to stop spitballers. “If you’re going to put foreign substances on the ball, we will too.”

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 17, 2017 at 10:58 AM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, foreign substances, history, spitball

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5457334)
Not a great Birthday Team today, but better than yesterday's collection of talent. Decent pitching and a great center fielder today.

C: Wiki Gonzalez (1.54 WAR)
1B: Carlos Pena (25.05 WAR)
2B: Lou Chiozza (0.25 WAR)
3B: Harry Riconda (-0.49 WAR)
SS: Leo Norris (-0.55 WAR)
LF: Carlos May (10.5 WAR)
CF: Cool Papa Bell (0 WAR)
RF: Jose Guillen (6.25 WAR)

SP: Hal Carlson (25.81 WAR)
SP: Billy Hoeft (20.49 WAR)
SP: Pascual Perez (19.36 WAR)
SP: Elmer Steele (4.6 WAR)
SP: Greg Mathews (3.4 WAR)
RP: Nick Masset (2.34 WAR)

Fun name: Porfi Altamirano
Pro Football Hall of Famer: Ace Parker
   2. Batman Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5457338)
Two years later, MLB decided to ban the spitball instead of banning Italians.
   3. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5457347)
Greg Maddux is exactly as old as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the day of his presidential Inauguration (18,661 days).

Baseball star Roger Clemens is exactly as old as President Jimmy Carter was the day he made his malaise speech (20,010 days).

Author John Updike would have been exactly as old as Casey Stengel was the day he died (31,106 days).


Anyone who wants to can look up as-old-as items for their own lives here.
   4. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5457373)
You are 41 years, 5 months, and 0 days old - that's exactly 15,127 days!
That's exactly as old as Aerosmith drummer Joey Kramer was the day Edna Krabappel threw herself at him when the band played Moe's Tavern.
NICE.
   5. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5457376)
Some records today for most times achieving a certain box-score line when going 1-for-2 with no RBI:

2 0 1 0 : the record is 52 times. The holder was a bad hitter in an extreme pitchers' era. A glove man on a fine ballclub, almost always batted 8th, wasn't much better a hitter than his team's #1 starting pitcher

2 1 1 0 : the record is 37 by Barry Bonds. The #2 guy on this leaderboard (with 34) is also the record-holder for

2 2 1 0 : (18 times), and shares the record for

2 3 1 0 : (four times) with Minnie Minoso

2 4 1 0 : only one player has done this twice. He is active, one of the better all-time switch-hitters, a HOM shoo-in when eligible

2 5 1 0 : this has only happened once, in 1930. The guy who did it had the odd luck to peak as a fine hitter and infielder just when offensive records became insane, so he looks in retrospect like someone who merely had inflated totals; they were inflated, for sure, but he was also really good for a few years. Then he lost his job to a HOVG shortstop, moved over, and lost that job to a HOM third baseman. He was a regular on two World Series teams, but the guys who replaced him would be regulars on two more

So my trivia questions are: the record-holder for 2010 lines, the guy who holds both the 2210 and 2310 records, and the record-holders for 2410 and 2510.
   6. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5457397)
the record-holder for 2010 lines,

Ray Oyler?

the guy who holds both the 2210 and 2310 records,

Ted Williams?
   7. Batman Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:55 AM (#5457400)
Is 2010 Dal Maxvill?

Edit: I can't check because Plax Index is down. Too many people are trying to cheat on this question.
   8. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5457405)
Maxvill is the record-holder for 2010 lines. (Roy McMillan, a similar player, is second with 51.)

Williams is not correct.
   9. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: May 17, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5457407)
Dan Lee wins as-old-as for the day.
   10. crict Posted: May 17, 2017 at 12:14 PM (#5457430)
2410: Carlos Beltran?
   11. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 17, 2017 at 12:22 PM (#5457438)
My guess for 2 5 1 0 is Woody English.
   12. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5457446)
Beltran and English are correct!
   13. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 01:11 PM (#5457504)
The 2010 leaderboard interests me. Most of those with high totals of that box-score line were bad hitters, despite the fact that they by definition batted .500 in those games. After Maxvill and McMillan, third place on the list belongs to Al Lopez (50). Next come three HOF pitchers (Carlton, Maddux, and Glavine), all with 49. You have to go down to 39 games and T13 on the board to find anyone who could hit worth a darn (Harold Baines), and after that some great hitters work into the mix of terrible ones (so that Barry Bonds and Buck Martinez are tied for 20th with 37 2010 games, and Babe Ruth & Stan Musial are at T49 with Hal Newhouser and Orel Hershiser (30 games).
   14. eric Posted: May 17, 2017 at 01:31 PM (#5457528)
The 2010 leaderboard interests me. Most of those with high totals of that box-score line were bad hitters, despite the fact that they by definition batted .500 in those games. After Maxvill and McMillan, third place on the list belongs to Al Lopez (50). Next come three HOF pitchers (Carlton, Maddux, and Glavine), all with 49. You have to go down to 39 games and T13 on the board to find anyone who could hit worth a darn (Harold Baines), and after that some great hitters work into the mix of terrible ones (so that Barry Bonds and Buck Martinez are tied for 20th with 37 2010 games, and Babe Ruth & Stan Musial are at T49 with Hal Newhouser and Orel Hershiser (30 games).


Attempting to deconstruct your 2010 findings...

They have to have had few at bats in the game, of course. So that limits it to people who walk a lot (typically great hitters) or people who don't bat a lot (late in batting order, or leave game early, or, of course, pitchers who are both late-batting and leave early; all of whom are typically poor hitters). So why would the latter group of poor hitters outnumber the group of great hitters? I think the answer is in the 0's. Someone who goes 1 for 2 in a full game, 4+ PAs, probably had two walks, and a great hitter will often have their one hit be for XB. This means a much higher probability of an R or an RBI. So to really rack up the 2010 lines, you have to 1) play regularly (which is why the only pitchers near the top had extraordinarily long careers as starters) 2) be a poor hitter (hence the light-hitting regulars) not getting a lot of BBs or XBH and also batting at the bottom of the order.

These statistical nuances are a lot easier to understand in hindsight, so to speak. But if you had asked "who has the most 2010 lines, poor hitters or great hitters" then I think guessing which logic prevails in reality is a much tougher task.
   15. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 02:12 PM (#5457584)
Very interesting analysis, eric, it makes a lot of sense. Many of these records are held by straightforward good hitters or bad hitters with long careers, or specialists – the interesting cases are mixes of different ways of getting there.
   16. EddieA Posted: May 17, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5457638)
2110, 2210, 2310:

Rickey.
   17. Batman Posted: May 17, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5457658)
Baines had a long career and left a lot of games early because he was pinch-run for. Later in his career he was also pinch hit for when a left-hander came in to pitch.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: May 17, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5457685)
Baines had a long career and left a lot of games early because he was pinch-run for.


That's a really good recipe for a 2010. You get the H that fills up column 3, and even if you come around to score, your replacement gets credit for the digit in column 2.
   19. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5457708)
Rickey Henderson is correct for the remaining 1-for-2 lines.

Henderson and Bonds are the answers to a great many of these box-score-line questions involving runs scored in not very many ABs, just as later on we will see names like Pete Rose and Ichiro Suzuki become ubiquitous among guys who often had a lot of ABs in a game.
   20. eric Posted: May 17, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5457823)
BDC, I have to say I really enjoy these batting line trivia questions. I did notice one from yesterday: 3 1 0 0 3 (0 for 3 with 3 walks and a run; It was Mike Trout, btw). I'm not sure if that's unique enough for you to toss it into your evaluation cauldron, but the 3 x 0 x 3 sequence really did stand out to me.
   21. BDC Posted: May 17, 2017 at 05:42 PM (#5457844)
Thanks, Eric! I am not trying to search for anything more than just the bare old-fashioned AB-R-H-BI lines (there are amazingly many permutations of just those, as I should have realized if I'd paid more attention in high-school math class :) 3 1 0 0 by itself might not be rare (Barry Bonds had 51 games at 2 1 0 0), but will show up before too long.

3 1 0 0 with three walks has been done 215 times after Trout's most recent achievement. Several players have done it twice; Joey Votto did it twice in 2015. Only one player did it three times, the senior member of the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame (in terms of earliest service with the Rangers themselves; he arrived with the club from Washington in 1972).
   22. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 17, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5457848)
Toby Harrah?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Don Malcolm
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogIf we nibble around the edges, we can make this OMNICHATTER last, for July 25, 2017
(77 - 8:55pm, Jul 25)
Last: Man o' Schwar

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(2019 - 8:39pm, Jul 25)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogTexas Rangers ready to move ace Yu Darvish in 'right deal'
(10 - 8:37pm, Jul 25)
Last: LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogOTP 17 July 2017: Love is baseball, family. Keep the politics out
(1845 - 8:34pm, Jul 25)
Last: cmd600

Gonfalon CubsWhat a difference a week makes
(53 - 8:32pm, Jul 25)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogJose Altuve continues torrid July in Astros win over Phillies - Houston Chronicle
(31 - 8:13pm, Jul 25)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogKen Rosenthal - Cubs and Verlander
(28 - 7:57pm, Jul 25)
Last: Andere Richtingen

NewsblogRoyals Acquire Cahill, Maurer, Buchter from Padres
(18 - 7:45pm, Jul 25)
Last: Shibal

NewsblogTexas Rangers Reaction sees 3,000 in Beltre's near future | Fort Worth Star-Telegram
(12 - 7:34pm, Jul 25)
Last: ajnrules

NewsblogHeyman | Mets Likely To Promote Shortstop Amed Rosario Soon
(2 - 7:31pm, Jul 25)
Last: Cargo Cultist

NewsblogMets giving sizzling rookie a shot in Zack Wheeler’s place | New York Post
(6 - 7:24pm, Jul 25)
Last: Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb

NewsblogOT-NBA off season thread
(1464 - 7:24pm, Jul 25)
Last: aberg

NewsblogYoan Moncada tops 2017 midseason Prospect list | MLB.com
(2 - 7:07pm, Jul 25)
Last: Walt Davis

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2006 Ballot
(2 - 6:55pm, Jul 25)
Last: John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy

NewsblogDan Shaughnessy: What went down between David Price and Dennis Eckersley
(46 - 6:52pm, Jul 25)
Last: Bug Selig

Page rendered in 0.3267 seconds
47 querie(s) executed