Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, May 01, 2014

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-1-2014

El Paso Herald, May 1, 1914:

George M. Dickson has a baseball scheme that is being seriously considered by several managers…He suggests that every player have a number that is given to him at the start of the season.

For example, if in the entire league there are 160 different players, every player could have his own number from one to 160. Opposite the names of the players in the score program would be printed the same number that the player on the diamond wears on his arm.
...
Dickson believes that if the number system were used the spectators would know who was on the bench as well as on the field and thus know whether any stars were not in the game and exactly at what time such stars might be pressed into service.

I genuinely have no idea who George M. Dickson was, but he’s got a pretty good idea here.

Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: May 01, 2014 at 11:16 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history, uniforms

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: May 01, 2014 at 11:17 AM (#4698192)
The second consecutive putrid Birthday Team.

C: Charlie O'Brien
1B: Felix Torres
2B: Jose Lind
3B: 1880s non-Whoop-La Bill White
SS: Johnny Berardino
CF: Von Joshua
RF: Al Zarilla

SP: George McQuillan
SP/LF: Frank Foreman
SP: Armando Reynoso
SP: Heinie Meine
SP: Bob Harris
RP: Roy Lee Jackson

Greatest Ever Russian-Born Ballplayer: Victor Starffin
Designated Canadian: Rich Butler
   2. BDC Posted: May 01, 2014 at 11:56 AM (#4698226)
In a Denny McLain thread recently, it was noted that the last batter McLain faced was Pete Rose, the last pitcher Rose faced was Rich Gossage, and the last batter Gossage faced was Jose Canseco – a pretty interesting group. I got to thinking about such "lineages" and might try posting a few here from time to time.

For instance, Babe Ruth. Here's the last pitcher to face Ruth, the last batter he faced, and so on till we find an active player. The year given is that player's last appearance; the pitchers are indented:

Babe Ruth 1935
   Jim Bivin 1935
Johnny McCarthy 1948
   Vern Bickford 1954
Chico Carrasquel 1959
   Jerry Casale 1962
Bobby Del Greco 1965
   Warren Spahn 1965
Sammy Ellis 1969
   Jim Hannan 1971
Ken Berry 1975
   Jim Todd 1979
Darrell Porter 1987
   Jerry Reed 1990
Dick Schofield 1996
   Bobby Witt 2001
Mike Coolbaugh 2002
   Jesse Orosco 2003
Warren Morris 2003
   Grant Balfour ACTIVE 


That's meaningless as heck, but it finds some players worth remembering, and it's interesting to see how long careers can be and how short they can be. What are the odds of catching Warren Spahn on a list like this for only a few months? I imagine quite a few players had their last PA against Spahn, but so close to his own is interesting. Same for Orosco.
   3. eric Posted: May 01, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4698233)
Another question (one which I, unfortunately, have no idea how to go about investigating) would be: what is the most notable pair of players for whom their final appearances were against each other?
   4. esseff Posted: May 01, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4698246)
Cookie Lavagetto and Bill Bevens come close on #3, but both made 1947 World Series appearances after their Game 4 matchup. But that brings up a point for anyone researching these questions: You have to watch out for the players whose final appearances came in the postseason. BB-ref lists the final games for Lavagetto and Bevens as their last ones in the 1947 regular season, before Lavagetto broke up Bevens' World Series no-hitter.
   5. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 01, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4698272)
It seems like BDC's exercise should be entirely random, and you wouldn't converge on a couple incredibly long-tenured players like you do if you're trying to find the SHORTEST chain between past and present.

And yet, he ended up with Warren Spahn and Jesse Orosco, and I ended up with Early Wynn and Phil Niekro.

Fred Luderus 1920
   Ray Fisher 1920
Walter Schmidt 1925
   Rube Benton 1925
Doc Gautreau 1928
   Flint Rhem 1936
Joe Coscarart 1936
   Claude Passeau 1947
Bobby Thomson 1960
   Early Wynn 1963
Charlie Dees 1965
   Al Worthington 1969
Jose Ortiz 1971
   Phil Niekro 1987
Kevin Mitchell 1998
   Orlando Hernandez 2007
Hanley Ramirez 


   6. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: May 01, 2014 at 01:53 PM (#4698300)
I'll be darned. I started with my favorite ballplayer, Hal Trosky, and stumbled across Nolan Ryan and Johnny Podres.

Also interesting: Dave Magadan didn't actually appear in Dave Magadan's last MLB appearance. He was announced as a pinch hitter, the opposition brought in a LOOGY, so the Padres pinch hit for their pinch hitter with Wiki Gonzalez. I didn't count that in this chain, as he didn't actually face a pitcher that day.

Hal Trosky 1946
   Tom Ferrick 1952
Dick Gernert 1962
   Johnny Podres 1969
Tom Griffin 1982
   Nolan Ryan 1993
Dave Magadan 2001
   Kane Davis 2007
Wily Mo Pena 2011
   Mike Gonzalez 
   7. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: May 01, 2014 at 01:58 PM (#4698305)
The second consecutive putrid Birthday Team.

I'll have you know your starting shortstop appeared in a scene with Cary Grant in North by Northwest. Johnny Beradino remains the only person in history to win a World Series and have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
   8. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 01, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4698314)
Johnny Beradino remains the only person in history to win a World Series and have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.


Bing Crosby and Bob Hope might dispute this.
   9. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 01, 2014 at 02:38 PM (#4698329)
Another question (one which I, unfortunately, have no idea how to go about investigating) would be: what is the most notable pair of players for whom their final appearances were against each other?


I doubt you'll find anyone who fits the bill. I wouldn't be surprised if no more than a handful of players final at bat came against a pitcher facing his final batter, and most of them would be guys who only had cuppa coffee appearances.

   10. Born1951 Posted: May 01, 2014 at 02:42 PM (#4698330)
I believe the Royals are the first team since the 1991 A's (except for the strike year of 1995) to have no home runs from either their DH or 1B positions through April 30. You would not have expected this from that A's team as most of their DH/1B at bats in April came from Mark McGwire, Harold Baines, and Jose Canseco.
   11. BochysFingers Posted: May 01, 2014 at 02:44 PM (#4698332)
I wouldn't be surprised if no more than a handful of players final at bat came against a pitcher facing his final batter, and most of them would be guys who only had cuppa coffee appearances.

Of course, a good place to look might be September/October. Or in August 1994. Maybe 1899.
   12. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 01, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4698339)
Maybe 1899.


If you could look there, I suspect Pre-1900 might be your best bet.

The problem is similar to the absence of farewell tours - baseball has a tendency to retire guys, they don't retire from it. So an awful lot of final PAs/Batters Faced occur with ugly mid-game exits in June, rather than glorious swan songs in early-October.

   13. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: May 01, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4698366)
Speaking of the Royals, I missed it, but they DID give Salvador Perez the day off last Tuesday, so he has now started behind the plate in just 25 of their 26 games this year. (And tonight will make it 26 of 27.)
   14. BDC Posted: May 01, 2014 at 03:54 PM (#4698381)
Part of the problem too in #3 is that you have to hope a pitcher threw the very last game of a given season, or else it usually won't be the hitter's final game. I thought of Larry French, who went into the Navy after 1942 and stayed there, becoming a captain. Lloyd Waner played in Larry French's last game, but (a) didn't face French (b) played the next day and (c) after a year off, returned in 1944 to play some more … well, that's close on three counts anyway :-D
   15. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: May 01, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4698383)
#3:
Another question (one which I, unfortunately, have no idea how to go about investigating) would be: what is the most notable pair of players for whom their final appearances were against each other?


Quite famously, Hall of Famers Mordecai Brown and Christy Mathewson ended their careers by facing each other. They each pitched complete games, with Mathewson's Reds winning 10-8. Box score from that game.
   16. john_halfz Posted: May 01, 2014 at 04:07 PM (#4698387)
You want Warren Spahn? Here

Joe Medwick 1946
Warren Spahn 1965
Sammy Ellis [batting] 1969
Jim Hannan 1971
Ken Berry 1975
Jim Todd 1979
Darrell Porter 1987
Jerry Reed 1990
Dick Schofield 1996
Bobby Witt 2001
Mike Coolbaugh 2002
Jesse Orosco 2003
Warren Morris 2003
Grant Balfour 


Warren Morris very nearly short circuited the string. He struck out against Jesse Orosco, and the winning run scored on a wild pitch. If he hadn't played the next day, that PA against Orosco would have been the end of the line for both guys.
   17. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 01, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4698391)
Quite famously, Hall of Famers Mordecai Brown and Christy Mathewson ended their careers by facing each other. They each pitched complete games, with Mathewson's Reds winning 10-8. Box score from that game.


Yes, but it's unlikely* that Brown was the last hitter Mathewson faced, so they wouldn't qualify. Like I said, with those parameters, it's going to be damn near impossible to find two famous ballplayers whose last appearances were each against the other.

You might find some guys who were late-season call-ups and never made it back to the big leagues, but it's going to be really hard to find two even moderately successful players who fit the bill.

* It appears to be Art Wilson.

   18. john_halfz Posted: May 01, 2014 at 04:22 PM (#4698395)
Some HOF talents in this string

Casey Stengel 1925
Dolf Luque 1935
Mel Ott 1947
Ken Burkhart 1949
Pete Castiglione [
?] 1953
Jim Konstanty 1956
Sandy Amoros 1960
Ken Johnson 1970
Ernie Banks 1971
Ken Reynolds 1976
Pete Rose 1986
Rich Gossage 1994
Jose Canseco 2001
Eddie Guardado 2009
Rob Quinlan 2010
Andrew Cashner 
   19. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: May 01, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4698398)
Well, if you're gonna define "against" that narrowly.... :)
   20. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 01, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4698430)
The Game of April 30, 1984 brings the second pitcher to start three Games of the Day already in the season's first month; it also establishes the fact that this is not necessarily a positive accomplishment for a pitcher, as Games of Days tend to feature blown leads, and this one was particularly egregious because it came mostly off the bat of... the other pitcher.
   21. Walt Davis Posted: May 01, 2014 at 06:32 PM (#4698484)
#5 ... random yes but as BDC suggests, guys with long careers, especially a guy like Spahn with a ton of BF, are more likely to be the last pitcher/batter faced by any random player. In the end, the chances that FP Santangelo's last pitcher was some pitcher of note are reasonably high and once you're talking about a list with 8 random batters in it, the chances that at least one of them has such a last pitcher, I'd guess the probability is pretty good.

For those who don't know "the birthday problem", by the time you have 23 randomly chosen people in a room, the probability that there is at least one pair with the same birthday (month/day) is over 50%. Per Wiki it gets to 99.9% at 70 people. This is somewhat similar.

Adding to the fun (by making other people work), who was the last batter faced by Ruth and what does that chain look like? You could do the same with first batters/pitchers. And on the Spahn question, you could look at somebody like him and try to find out how many batters he was the last pitcher for. Have fun! :-)
   22. Walt Davis Posted: May 01, 2014 at 06:53 PM (#4698492)
With more planned retirement days (it seems), I wonder if final prestigious match-ups will be more common. You're gonna start Ken Griffey on Ken Griffey Day.

(Note, Griffey's last appearance was actually as a PH -- some sendoff! Jon Rauch was the pitcher.)

On prestigious last matchhups, in his final inning, Maddux faced Vizquel, Matt Cain and Randy Winn ... but alas Winn was the final one. Humorously, Vizquel was caught stealing in the inning, possibly the first runner ever caught stealing against Maddux. :-) Embarrassingly for Maddux, he was pinch-hit for by Angel Berroa.

Oh crap, Dodgers made the playoffs. Maddux relieved in game 5 of the NLCS. So his last batter faced was ...

Cole Hamels.

Not bad.

Now we have the problem of finding out the last PITCHER faced by Hamels. Hamels could potentially show up twice in his own list -- last pitcher faced in the NL and then that pitcher's last batter has his last PA against Hamels in the AL.

Note, if we do find a final-final matchup, we go into an infinite loop. For any of you out there searching for final-final matchups with a computer. :-)
   23. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 01, 2014 at 07:49 PM (#4698505)
The Game of Yesterday comes with a brief update on the most- and least-exciting teams through the first month of the year, along with a modified version of a Branch Rickey aphorism.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
rr
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogNo, Alex Gordon wouldn't have scored an inside the park home run
(131 - 2:10am, Oct 31)
Last: Baldrick

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(630 - 2:05am, Oct 31)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(1021 - 1:53am, Oct 31)
Last: The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott)

NewsblogJoe Maddon is to become Cubs manager, sources say
(108 - 1:49am, Oct 31)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogNewest Hall of Fame Candidates Announced
(51 - 1:39am, Oct 31)
Last: Ardo

NewsblogSend Alex Gordon! | FiveThirtyEight
(78 - 1:25am, Oct 31)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(4785 - 12:40am, Oct 31)
Last: Joe Kehoskie

NewsblogThe Players' Tribune: Jeter: The Clean Up
(1 - 12:38am, Oct 31)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogAngell: The Best
(17 - 12:33am, Oct 31)
Last: odds are meatwad is drunk

NewsblogThings we learned from the 2014 playoffs
(11 - 12:17am, Oct 31)
Last: bobm

NewsblogMadison Bumgarner, World Series legend - McCovey Chronicles
(103 - 12:15am, Oct 31)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogFull Count » Red Sox sign Koji Uehara to 2-year contract
(8 - 11:44pm, Oct 30)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogFielding Bible
(2 - 11:24pm, Oct 30)
Last: Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee

NewsblogOT:  October 2014 - College Football thread
(544 - 11:11pm, Oct 30)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1960 Discussion
(9 - 10:22pm, Oct 30)
Last: Chris Fluit

Page rendered in 0.4192 seconds
52 querie(s) executed