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Tuesday, May 08, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-8-2018

Bridgeport Times, May 8, 2018:

Hugh Duffy, holder of the batting average ever recorded in either of the major leagues, says that Babe Ruth of the Boston Red Sox hits a ball harder than any other player in fast company. A part of Ruth’s success is due to confidence in himself. He firmly believes that he can hit all kinds of pitching.

Tough to argue with either of them.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 08, 2018 at 09:50 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 08, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5668386)
It's tough to know for sure how great this outfield is, given that Stearnes never got a chance to play in the big leagues, but I can't imagine that there's a Birthday Team with three better outfielders.

Brouthers, of course, is really a first baseman, but he played a few dozen games in left field. It was going to be him or Adrian Gonzalez holding down one of the corners.

C: Adam Moore (-0.53 WAR)
1B: Adrian Gonzalez (42.76 WAR)
2B: Dasher Troy (2.11 WAR)
3B: Steve Braun (17.44 WAR)
SS: Ross Barnes (27.67 WAR)
LF: Dan Brouthers (78.66 WAR)
CF: Turkey Stearnes (0 WAR, Negro Leagues legend)
RF: Edd Roush (45.26 WAR)

SP: Mike Cuellar (27.09 WAR)
SP: John Maine (3.93 WAR)
SP: Alfredo Simon (1.02 WAR)
SP: Wily Peralta (0.9 WAR)
SP: Roy Wilkinson (0.8 WAR)
RP: Red Hoff (1.32 WAR)

Manager: Jack Chapman
Not that one: Ricky Nelson
Owner: Donald Barnes
Writer: Barney Kremenko
   2. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5668405)
Dan Brouthers' stats are amazing for hitting when seasons were short and home runs were rare. I think he's the only 19th-century player left in the top 100 for runs.

He appears in the Hughie Jennings biography as the big star that genius Orioles manager Ned Hanlon added for leadership to their young team.

Also:
During his career, and most notably during his time in Baltimore, he was known to always have his dog, an Irish setter named Kelly, and had him sit in the players' area. It is claimed that the players never minded much, as he was very well-behaved and never left the area to run out on the field or made very much noise.


Most of the Orioles players were Irish but I didn't realize the mascot was too.
   3. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5668411)
On to four ABs! Most times with the exact box-score line (ab/r/h/bi), regular season since 1908:

4 0 0 0 : I'd bet this is most common line for a full game, the classic fitted collar. The player who did it most often, 421 times, is: a Hall of Famer (hence not Pete Rose or Ichiro); someone who played forever but wasn't pinch-hit for much if ever (hence not Rabbit Maranville or Ozzie Smith); wasn't fanatical about walking (hence not Rickey Henderson or Barry Bonds: though our guy did once lead his league in BB); and didn't have a phenomenal batting average for a HOFer (hence not Stan Musial or Wade Boggs). Can you guess him?

4 1 0 0 : This one is Pete Rose (48 times)

4 2 0 0 : Ossie Vitt and Davey Lopes did this six times apiece. Ossie Vitt? He barely played 1,000 big-league games; a glove-man 3B of the 1910s, who played a long time in the PCL as well

4 3 0 0 : Minnie Minoso did this twice

4 4 0 0 : Only done once, according to B-Ref, though this is an obscurely-documented feat. Somebody named Tex McDonald did it for the 1914 Pittsburgh Rebels of the Federal League, against the St. Louis Terriers. McDonald walked once, and the Terriers made eight errors that day, so presumably three of his TOB were ROE, if you catch my abbreviations. Or maybe he was safe on a force play or two. Anyway, the batter behind McDonald, somebody named Jack Lewis, hit three triples that day, ensuring that if McDonald was on, he was going to score. Tex McDonald was from Texas, strange to say, and played sparingly in the NL but for both seasons of the FL, then went back to the TL for a long career

   4. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5668415)
4 0 0 0: Johnny Bench?
   5. PreservedFish Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5668420)
Cal Ripken Jr?
   6. PreservedFish Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5668423)
Several good possibilities here, but I won't be a jerk and guess 5+ names all at once.
   7. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5668424)
The 4000 record-holder is not Bench (he did it 275 times). Ripken is close; he's second for 4000 games with 391 of them.
   8. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5668425)
I think he's the only 19th-century player left in the top 100 for runs.


??

Cap Anson is 9th. Billy Hamilton is 28th. those are the only two I checked.

edit: there are a ton of guys in the top 100 in runs scored. Did you mean something else? It's not RBI.
   9. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5668429)
Willie Mays?
   10. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 08, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5668433)
I think he's the only 19th-century player left in the top 100 for runs.


Edit: This isn't even close to true, the way I phrased it. I was looking at something else.

I do think he is the OLDEST player left in the top 100 for runs except Cap Anson and Jim O'Rourke. And also for doubles, except Anson, O'Rourke, and Harry Stovey.
   11. PreservedFish Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5668434)
Dave Winfield
   12. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5668435)
Ossie Vitt and Davey Lopes did this six times apiece. Ossie Vitt? He barely played 1,000 big-league games; a glove-man 3B of the 1910s, who played a long time in the PCL as well


Ossie Vitt is probably best known for being the manager of the Indians in the "Cleveland crybabies" incident of 1940, when his confrontational managerial style led to a player revolt, and a petition from several players to remove him. The Indians management backed Vitt, and the Tigers won the pennant by one game over Cleveland. Vitt was fired after the season.
   13. The Ghost of Logan Schafer Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5668436)
Wily Peralta !! What happened??
   14. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5668437)
I'm trying to think of a player who played forever, didn't hit for much of a batting average, and is in the HOF.

Mazeroski?
   15. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5668439)
Eddie Murray?
   16. RickA. Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5668440)
Yaz?
   17. Ziggy's screen name Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5668448)
Reggie? I'm thinking the strike outs would have helped with this one.
   18. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5668455)
Reggie, Winnie, and Maz never led the league in walks. Yaz did it twice, so he's not it either. Mays and Murray so far fit the bill.
   19. CheersUnusualPlays Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5668458)
4 0 0 0 - Andre Dawson? No, he didn't walk enough
   20. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5668459)
Not only did Dawson never lead the league in walks, he was never in the top 10.
   21. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5668462)
Eddie Murray is the top batter for 4000 games, with 421. Rose is third with 382, behind Ripken.

Rounding out the top ten are Yaz, Brooks Robinson, Aaron, Reggie Jackson, Gaetti, Beltre, and Dawson.
   22. PreservedFish Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5668465)
And so do Murray and Ripken hold the record for teammate 4 0 0 0s?
   23. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5668468)
421, incidentally, is not the top number of specific lines for a single player, but it's the second-highest I've found. The highest such total I've found is 598 games of 1000 by Lenny Harris. I would guess those are the two most common box-score lines, plain 0-for-1 and 0-for-4.
   24. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5668471)
do Murray and Ripken hold the record for teammate 4 0 0 0s?

One would think. I don't see any other pair of teammates even high on the list. Graig Nettles is 13th, but he was only Reggie's teammate for what, 5-6 years? Though I guess Ripken and Murray were only teammates for seven; seems longer.
   25. PreservedFish Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5668472)
The highest such total I've found is 598 games of 1000 by Lenny Harris. I would guess those are the two most common box-score lines, plain 0-for-1 and 0-for-4.


Oh come on, this was a great trivia question.

Also, you give us too many details. The question should just be "who leads in 4 0 0 0" with no clues. Makes us do the work of figuring out that it's probably not a high OBP guy, for instance.

Ok, I'll stop being thankless.
   26. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5668473)
Bridgeport Times, May 8, 2018:

2018?

Anyhow, 50 years ago today, this happened.
   27. Eddo Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5668477)
Surprised Biggio wasn't guessed.
   28. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5668478)
Oh come on, this was a great trivia question.

Also, you give us too many details. The question should just be "who leads in 4 0 0 0" with no clues. Makes us do the work of figuring out that it's probably not a high OBP guy, for instance


I will try some of those tactics in future! Long way to go yet …

I had posted Lenny Harris's record when I was working through the 1-AB lines, so figured everyone would remember it, but I now realize that that was a couple of years ago :)
   29. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5668480)
Anyhow, 50 years ago today, this happened.


I had no idea Hunter went 3 for 4 with 3 RBI in his perfect game. Have a day man!
   30. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 08, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5668485)
I've started looking for books of collected newspaper/magazine articles by baseball writers. There's a surprisingly small amount. In fact it seems like this sort of book was mostly just published in the 70s and 80s. So far I have two by Thomas Boswell and one by Roger Angell.

For any of the great Philly sportswriters, I don't think their columns or articles were ever collected. Seems like a shame now. Some of them are collected in the book The Phillies Reader, but that's it. The writers did write books but they were like "The Mike Schmidt Story, As Told To [Writer]" or "50 Great Moments in Phillies History". And the one exception is the disgraced Bill Conlin.

   31. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 08, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5668492)
I have a book called "The Joe Williams Reader," by a guy who wrote a column for the New York World Telegram from 1927 to 1964. It's not very good. You're welcome to have it.
   32. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 08, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5668498)
SABR has been publishing reprints of old classics and among those they have published a couple collections of articles, including the articles Addie Joss wrote for the Toledo newspaper. I hope they keep doing this.

Maybe collect Sandy Grady's sportswriting for the Philadelphia Bulletin, 1957-1982, for example.
   33. BDC Posted: May 08, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5668500)
Crispix, the Red Smith Reader is worth getting. Indeed, it came out in 1982. Baseball is only a fraction of the content, but there are some great things in there, especially Smith's story on the Bevens/Lavagetto game in 1947.
   34. Hank Gillette Posted: May 08, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5668521)
I have a book called "The Joe Williams Reader," by a guy who wrote a column for the New York World Telegram from 1927 to 1964.


The New York World-Telegram was The New York Telegram until 1931, when the Telegram’s owners bought The New York World. With different timing, we could have had The World-Telegram Series.*


















* I know.
   35. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 08, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5668560)
Isn't there a book about the 1908 season that's mainly a collection of articles? I remember the writers kept referring to "PL Chance" like the guy's given name was "Peerless Leader."
   36. AndrewJ Posted: May 08, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5668834)
Today's Birthday Team reliever died at age 107.

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