Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, July 19, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-19-2018

Toledo News-Bee, July 19, 1918:

Baseball on a wholesale scale has been presented to followers of the Chicago Cubs the last three days. In this short time 55 innings were played by the National League leaders. They staged a double header of nine rounds on Tuesday, put over the 21-inning game on Wednesday, and battled 16 periods on Thursday. This is a major league record.

That’s more than 18 innings per day. Great for the fans, less so for the players.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 19, 2018 at 09:59 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 19, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5712476)
A sneaky-good Birthday Team today. Nobody over 35 WAR, but everybody's pretty good as long as Ankiel can find the strike zone.

C: Yan Gomes (10.23 WAR)
1B: David Segui (10.44 WAR)
2B: Jackie Hayes (6.4 WAR)
3B: Mark Koenig (7.14 WAR)
SS: Joe Boley (3.35 WAR)
LF: Phil Cavarretta (34.59 WAR)
CF: Preston Wilson (6.39 WAR)
RF: Bob Meusel (27.67 WAR)

SP: Earl Hamilton (23.82 WAR)
SP: Patrick Corbin (10.59 WAR)
SP: Marius Russo (8.82 WAR)
SP: Rick Ankiel (8.92 total WAR, 3.58 pitching WAR)
SP: Clint Rogge (2.49 WAR)
RP: Wilton Lopez (4.4 WAR)
RP: Luis Avilan (4.19 WAR)

Fun names: Jimmy Gobble, Snake Henry
Manager: Billy Gardner
Not that one: Bob Pettit
Umpire: George Barr
Writers: Jayson Stark, Peter Golenbock
   2. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 19, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5712483)
I noticed when I was putting together today's roster that Mark Koenig, a guy who spent 12 seasons in the major leagues as a middle infielder, started one game as a pitcher. After digging around a bit, it seems the Tigers decided to try to convert him to pitching in 1930 because his eyesight was failing and he couldn't see well enough to hit.

It went about as well as you'd expect. The guy with no professional pitching experience, who couldn't really see, walked 19 of the 80 batters he faced in 15 career innings. They hit the eject button on that idea and sold him to the Mission Reds of the PCL in early 1932. Koenig resurfaced later in 1932 as a utilityguy for the Cubs and hit .353/.377/.510 in 102 at-bats. After he left the Tigers, Mark Koenig hit .283 in five major league seasons.

So much for thinking he couldn't see and could pitch.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 19, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5712521)
So I guess he's not the one who's going to swap duties with Ankiel.
   4. JJ1986 Posted: July 19, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5712531)
Ken Rosenthal:
Brad Hand to #Indians, sources tell me and @ByRobertMurray.

Damn:
Catcher Francisco Mejia headed to #Padres, sources tell me and @ByRobertMurray.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 19, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5712537)
Brad Hand to #Indians, sources tell me and @ByRobertMurray.

Catcher Francisco Mejia headed to #Padres, sources tell me and @ByRobertMurray.


It's a high price. More than Baltimore got for Machado. But Hand is controlled through 2021 at pretty reasonable prices.

Given where Cleveland is positioned (likely to win the division for several years, but facing better teams in Oct.), and the fact that they seem to prefer their other catchers to Mejia, it probably makes sense.

Edit: Looks like Cleveland also got Adam Climber, who's having a nice year in the pen.
   6. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: July 19, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5712544)
Also, the Indians pen has been horrible, so this fills a real need. They should now have a good pen in October.
   7. dlf Posted: July 19, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5712550)
Clicking through links on Luis Avilan ... he was part of the trade that brought Hector Olivia to Atlanta. Oliva, who is still owed something like $49M, was most recently seen playing for the Sugar Land Skeeters where he had a sub 700 OPS in '17. To get out of the Olivia contract, the Braves sent him to San Diego for Matt Kemp, who put up negative 1.3 WAR in his two ATL seasons and got about $30M from the Braves. Kemp was then sent out for the dead salaries of Scott Kazmir ($17M and released) and Adrian Gonzalez ($22M from Atlanta and cut too) plus the positive 0.3 WAR between Mssrs Culberson and McCarthy and the $12M paid to those two. Oh yeah, and Hector was arrested for domestic violence. I'm thinking that just maybe Fredi would like to take this one back.
   8. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 19, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5712554)
130 years ago today, Cap Anson refused to play in an exhibition game against the International League's Newark team because it had two black players.

One black player feigned illness and the other was benched. The game went on.

50 years ago today, Mickey Mantle hit his first triple in nearly two years. He'd never hit another.

40 years ago today, Pete Rose kept his hitting streak alive with a ninth inning bunt. He was retired in the 8th, but a late offensive surge by Cincinnati gave him another chance.

40 year ago today, Nolan Ryan loaded the bases with none out - but then struck out the next three batters to emerge unscathed. It was the third time in his career he did that.

30 years ago today, Rick Sutcliffe pulled off the rare unassisted pick off.

30 years ago today, Hanshin Tigers GM Shingo Furuya committed suicide. He was only six weeks into the job and had been heavily criticized.

20 years ago today, Carlos Delgado became the first batter to hit a homer in the Skydome's fifth deck.

   9. dlf Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5712561)
50 years ago today, Mickey Mantle hit his first triple in nearly two years. He'd never hit another.

40 years ago today, Pete Rose kept his hitting streak alive with a ninth inning bunt. He was retired in the 8th, but a late offensive surge by Cincinnati gave him another chance.


I was going to say that there is no way in hell that these are only separated by 10 years. But then I realized it is just a matter of perspective. I remember Rose's hit streak very well, but Mantle retired when I was one. I'm guessing that deep down, I'm convinced that the world exists solely because I'm in it and things happening outside my personal sphere just aren't real.
   10. VCar Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5712563)
30 years ago today, Rick Sutcliffe pulled off the rare unassisted pick off.


Details, we want details! I assume the runner broke early on a steal, Sut saw him and ran right at him to cut down the angle, and the runner couldn't get into either base before Sut tagged him.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5712567)
30 years ago today, Rick Sutcliffe pulled off the rare unassisted pick off.
"Tell me more..." -- Jon Lester
   12. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5712570)
It's interesting to see that Bob Meusel is credited with -4.8 career dWAR, and has a negative defensive rating every year of his career but two. My impression of him has always been that he was an excellent defensive player. First, Bill James says that Meusel had, without question, the best throwing arm of any outfielder of his era - "there is an absolute consensus as to which outfielder had the best throwing arm of the time; I could show you a half-dozen books in which somebody just flat out says that [Bob Meusel] had the best arm in baseball.” Second, and I know this isn't exactly a metrics-friendly comment, he's rated a "1" fielder in right and left, with a -5 arm, in Strat-O-Matic with the '27 Yankees, which are the best ratings you can get in SOM. So to see him rated as that poor a defensive outfielder is a bit of shock.
   13. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5712571)
30 years ago today, Rick Sutcliffe pulled off the rare unassisted pick off.

I did some digging - the only account I can find says that there were runners on 1st and 2nd, and the runner on 1st (Brett Butler) apparently wandered too far off the bag and Sutcliffe was able to pick him off. I'm trying to picture the lumbering Sutcliffe running at little Brett Butler and somehow catching him before he could get back to 1st base. I'm not having much luck.

Video evidence would really help here. Why doesn't MLB.com have a full video archive of all televised games in history? You know this would have been on WGN at the time.
   14. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5712573)
My guess is he tried to steal second and tripped and fell down.
   15. Batman Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5712580)
Video would be fine, but I really want to hear Harry Caray's call of the pickoff.

My guess is something like "HEY! Ooooooh. They got him!"
   16. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5712582)
Catcher Francisco Mejia headed to #Padres, sources tell me and @ByRobertMurray.
I can't say I'm excited to lose Mejia, but I get it. Flags fly forever.

A couple of years ago, Mejia looked a lot like a young Victor Martinez to me. Over the past year and a half, he's been more Max Ramirez than Victor, so maybe they're getting out of the Mejia business at the right time. Or maybe not - maybe he becomes the best catcher in baseball.

I wish the kid well. I hope he has a great career.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5712583)
Video would be fine, but I really want to hear Harry Caray's call of the pickoff.

My guess is something like "HEY! Ooooooh. They got him!"
I'm gonna go with something more like "Sutcliffe spelled backwards is Effil...Effilcuts...Effliscut...ah, anyway, there's a lovely lady in the stands."
   18. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5712584)
My guess is he tried to steal second and tripped and fell down.

There was already someone on 2B at the start of the play. Maybe Butler forgot, took off, and had nowhere to go.
   19. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5712587)
MLB.com reporter Jordan Bastian with an interesting angle that I'd forgotten about:
Another tendril of Lucroy's decision to block the trade to Cleveland two years ago. Mejia stays with the Indians and nets the club one of the game's top back-end arms in Brad Hand and an intriguing rookie reliever in Adam Cimber.
   20. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5712590)
It's interesting to see that Bob Meusel is credited with -4.8 career dWAR, and has a negative defensive rating every year of his career but two.


dWAR includes a positional adjustment, which is negative for corner outfielders. BB-Ref rates Meusel as essentially an average defensive right fielder for his career with an Rfield of +7 for his career (+11 in 10 years as a Yankee). In essence, dWAR is saying that an average defensive corner outfielder is a below-average fielder, across all positions (e.g., Meusel would have been a below-average center fielder), which is probably true. It (dWAR) is a somewhat weird construction and I thought I heard Sean Forman say somewhere (either here or maybe in a talk at SABR?) that he was probably going to get rid of it because too many people misinterpret it.
   21. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5712593)
EDIT: Oops, misread.
   22. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5712595)
dWAR includes a positional adjustment, which is negative for corner outfielders. BB-Ref rates Meusel as essentially an average defensive right fielder for his career with an Rfield of +7 for his career (+11 in 10 years as a Yankee). In essence, dWAR is saying that an average defensive corner outfielder is a below-average fielder, across all positions (e.g., Meusel would have been a below-average center fielder), which is probably true. It (dWAR) is a somewhat weird construction and I thought I heard Sean Forman say somewhere (either here or maybe in a talk at SABR?) that he was probably going to get rid of it because too many people misinterpret it.


Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it.
   23. Batman Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5712597)
I'm gonna go with something more like "Sutcliffe spelled backwards is Effil...Effilcuts...Effliscut...ah, anyway, there's a lovely lady in the stands."


Harry: They're here from Naperville today! (heavy breathing)
Steve Stone: Sutcliffe caught him leaning and ended up running right at Butler for the second out.
Harry: So that brings up Musial.
   24. SandyRiver Posted: July 19, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5712598)
That’s more than 18 innings per day. Great for the fans, less so for the players.

What's the most innings MLB teams have played in one day? I know it's more than the Oeschger-Cadore marathon, not only due some triple-headers in the dead ball era, but also because of a tri-night twin bill at OYS that some friends and I attended in July of 1967, in which the nightcap went 18 innings. (We stayed until the bitter end, moving from the 3rd deck to the boxes late in #2, by which time there were only a few hundred other stubborn idiots waiting for the not-very-good Yanks to lose, though they'd won the opener for a split. Also, summer of '67 probably was not the best time to be wandering around the Bronx at 2 AM trying to remember where we'd parked the car.)
   25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 19, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5712644)
On May 31, 1964, the Mets and Giants played a doubleheader, and the second game went 23 innings, so that's a total of 32 innings on the day. Gaylord Perry got the win in the nightcap by pitching 10 innings of shutout relief.
   26. Rennie's Tenet Posted: July 19, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5712666)
The 1918 Cubs also played five doubleheaders between June 30 and July 11.

I believe Mark Koenig was the subject of the bench jockeying that led up to Babe's called shot in the 1932 Series. Koenig was outstanding for half a season, the Cubs voted him half a series share, and the Yankees said they were cheapskates.

Jimmy Gobble and Snake Henry could be comic relief characters in one of your finer porn films.
   27. SandyRiver Posted: July 19, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5712690)
#25 Thanks, I'd forgotten that what was at the time the longest duration game (7:23) in MLB history was the back end of a twin bill.
   28. Batman Posted: July 19, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5712710)
The fans and the Mets got to see six future Hall of Famers play in that 1964 doubleheader. The Giants used five HOFers and seven other all stars in the second game.
   29. The Run Fairy Posted: July 19, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5712752)
20 years ago today, Carlos Delgado became the first batter to hit a homer in the Skydome's fifth deck.


I think this is supposed to be 'first left-handed batter'. Jose Canseco was the first, hitting a memorable one in the 89 ALCS. McGwire and Joe Carter followed him, then Delgado.
   30. RJ in TO Posted: July 19, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5712757)
20 years ago today, Carlos Delgado became the first batter to hit a homer in the Skydome's fifth deck.
This is wrong. Canseco was the first to do it, in the 1989 playoffs.

EDIT: As The Run Fairy had already noted.
   31. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 19, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5712774)
25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 19, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5712644)
On May 31, 1964, the Mets and Giants played a doubleheader, and the second game went 23 innings, so that's a total of 32 innings on the day. Gaylord Perry got the win in the nightcap by pitching 10 innings of shutout relief.


I believe he's since said that's the day he really discovered the power of his spitball.
   32. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: July 19, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5712780)
The fans and the Mets got to see six future Hall of Famers play in that 1964 doubleheader.


Couldn't figure out who the 6th one was. Had to look it up. The Duke of Flatbush.
   33. QLE Posted: July 19, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5712788)
Couldn't figure out who the 6th one was. Had to look it up. The Duke of Flatbush.


San Francisco being the place where the good and great spend the waning days of their careers was a thing long before anyone had ever heard of Brian Sabean.....
   34. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 19, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5712835)
Couldn't figure out who the 6th one was. Had to look it up. The Duke of Flatbush.


San Francisco being the place where the good and great spend the waning days of their careers was a thing long before anyone had ever heard of Brian Sabean.....


Duke Snider as a Giant and Juan Marichal as a Dodger always seemed so wrong to me...
   35. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 19, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5712841)
Likewise. Jackie Robinson would have been a Giant had he not retired. How bizarre would that have been?
   36. AndrewJ Posted: July 20, 2018 at 05:42 AM (#5712991)
I was going to say that there is no way in hell that these are only separated by 10 years. But then I realized it is just a matter of perspective. I remember Rose's hit streak very well, but Mantle retired when I was one. I'm guessing that deep down, I'm convinced that the world exists solely because I'm in it and things happening outside my personal sphere just aren't real.

Same phenomenon here. I attended my first MLB game in August 1978, which was closer chronologically to Lou Gehrig's final game than it is to today. That doesn't seem right.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Don Malcolm
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogAnalytics' rise a leading topic at Winter Meetings
(15 - 12:42am, Dec 12)
Last: Dr. Vaux

NewsblogBlue Jays cut ties with Tulowitzki
(7 - 12:41am, Dec 12)
Last: The Run Fairy

NewsblogMets, Yankees, Marlins In Talks On Three-Team Deal - MLB Trade Rumors
(55 - 12:30am, Dec 12)
Last: Howie Menckel

Hall of Merit2019 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(313 - 12:26am, Dec 12)
Last: Jaack

NewsblogWhite Sox acquire Ivan Nova from Pirates to strengthen starting pitching depth
(4 - 12:08am, Dec 12)
Last: asinwreck

NewsblogPhillies To Sign Andrew McCutchen
(16 - 12:04am, Dec 12)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogThibs' Hall of Fame Tracker
(425 - 11:56pm, Dec 11)
Last: Kiko Sakata

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (The Berhalter Thread?)
(141 - 11:07pm, Dec 11)
Last: J. Sosa

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-11-2018
(18 - 10:55pm, Dec 11)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

NewsblogBradford: Dustin Pedroia and his biggest battle | WEEI
(1 - 10:31pm, Dec 11)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogJayson Stark wins Baseball Hall of Fame's Spink Award
(46 - 9:49pm, Dec 11)
Last: Jose Canusee

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(3542 - 9:31pm, Dec 11)
Last: Booey

NewsblogSmith, Baines elected to Baseball Hall of Fame
(528 - 9:24pm, Dec 11)
Last: DanG

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (December 2018)
(466 - 9:09pm, Dec 11)
Last: Davo and his Moose Tacos

Hall of MeritMock 2019 Hall of Fame Election Results
(6 - 8:21pm, Dec 11)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

Page rendered in 0.4394 seconds
46 querie(s) executed