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Monday, July 22, 2019

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-22-2019

Pittsburgh Press, July 22, 1919:

The Boston Redsox of the American league are said to be threatening a mutiny because of the reports that Carl Mays, right handed pitching star, is to be sold or traded to the New York Americans.
...
Mays quit the Redsox, with whom he had a $9,000 per year contract in the third inning of a game in Chicago and disappeared, announcing that he was through with baseball and would go on a fishing trip.
...
Instead of suspending him indefinitely or otherwise taking action…Barrow puzzled the critics and fans by beginning negotiations for the disposal of Mays to another club.

Red Sox players and fans were also said to be upset that Mays might end up with the Yankees. They should grab a helmet and strap in, because they haven’t seen anything yet.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:20 AM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:21 AM (#5863742)
A nice pitching staff on today's Birthday Team.

C/Manager: George Gibson (14.8 WAR)
1B: Mike Sweeney (24.8 WAR)
2B: Tim Johnson (-0.6 WAR)
3B: Art Kores (0.9 WAR)
SS: Pebbly Jack Glasscock (61.6 WAR)
LF: Cliff Johnson (16.2 WAR)
CF: Doc Cramer (8.4 WAR)
RF: Jim Rivera (7.0 WAR)

SP: Dave Stieb (56.4 WAR)
SP: Jesse Haines (32.7 WAR)
SP: Scott Sanderson (27.7 WAR)
SP: Terris McDuffie (Negro Leagues pitcher)
SP: George Baumgardner (7.0 WAR)
RP: Sparky Lyle (23.2 WAR)
RP: Scot Shields (12.2 WAR)

Owner: Drayton McLane
NPB outfielder, five-time Central League All-Star: Kazuyoshi Yamamoto
Umpire: Chris Conroy
   2. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:37 AM (#5863754)
Red Sox players and fans were also said to be upset that Mays might end up with the Yankees. They should grab a helmet

Especially with Carl Mays involved, amirite?

(Too soon?)

Speaking of Carl Mays, starting pitcher ratings will be back fairly soon, but not today; I'm in the process of switching to Game Score version 2, which requires a good bit of revamping and a new data entry process. (B-R does not calculate GS2 and Fangraphs doesn't have it as far back as I'd like, so I'm pasting everyone's game logs into a spreadsheet and calculating it myself. Which actually goes faster than what I was doing before anyway!)
   3. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:37 AM (#5863755)
This is the all penis team: 2 Johnsons, a Glasscock and Mike’s Weeney.
   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5863757)
It's a little alarming to see the enormous Cliff Johnson in left field. He came up as a catcher for the Astros, was clearly not a catcher, was tried at first base, but eventually made his way to his natural position of DH. He did start 54 games in left, although he was relieved for defense in more than half of them.

But he sure could hit. Coming up with the Astros in the mid-1970s was a good way to have poor raw hitting numbers, but he would have been third in the NL in OPS+ in 1975 if he'd had enough at bats to qualify.
   5. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 10:58 AM (#5863768)
Yeah, Yamamoto might be a better option as a left fielder, but I wanted to get Johnson's bat in the lineup. Maybe they can do a ground ball pitcher/fly ball pitcher platoon.
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5863773)
It's a little alarming to see the enormous Cliff Johnson in left field. He came up as a catcher for the Astros, was clearly not a catcher, was tried at first base, but eventually made his way to his natural position of DH. He did start 54 games in left, although he was relieved for defense in more than half of them.

he really gave the Yankees a boost when traded there in 1977--then did absolutely NOTHING in 78, then broke Gossage's thumb in 79; they couldn't get rid of him fast enough
   7. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: July 22, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5863779)
I always forget which Johnson was briefly on the Cubs in the late 70's, Davey of Cliff. And the reason is both were. Davey in 1978 for 24 games, and Cliff in 1980 * for 68.

*Yeah, I know. For me, the 70's didn't end until graduated HS in 1981.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5863780)
Yeah, Yamamoto might be a better option as a left fielde

Should we do a WW2 Pacific Theatre digression?
   9. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 22, 2019 at 11:23 AM (#5863782)
George Baumgardner was from a place in West Virginia that is now suburban sprawl but I guess then was the height of rurality. Odd that he didn't get the nickname "Rube".

The Browns threw him into the rotation in April 1912 after only 2 seasons playing for his local team in the Class D Mountain States League. His career was over by 1917 due to a "strained and dislocated nerve in his back that gives him pain every time he throws the ball."

If one is to judge by the newspaper accounts from Baumgardner's time in baseball, he was generally perceived as a naïve country boy; his formal education ended after the seventh grade at Barboursville PS #2. One story described him as "not versed in the finer points of the world's ways" and reported that he was so unschooled that he was never ever able to actually sign his name to his contracts but could only mark them with an "X." (Although this last detail gives us insight into the way in which the press viewed Baumgardner, it is apocryphal as the Baseball Hall of Fame archives hold two contracts bearing his signature.) Another story made much of the fact that Baumgardner never left his home state until he joined the Browns. Another reported that he perfected his pitching by throwing stones at squirrels, trying to kill them. Yet another mocked him for not knowing that the American League was one of two major leagues since, when a reporter asked his opinion of his opponent for his debut, Ed Walsh, he reportedly replied, "What I want to know … if this Walsh is such a great pitcher, why ain't he drafted by the National League?" Still other stories made much of the fact that Baumgardner did not know he should eat the spears and not the stalks on a piece of asparagus and that when he bought a rubber raincoat in New York he was so fascinated by the novelty of it that he wore it even on sunny days.
   10. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5863788)
This is the all penis team: 2 Johnsons, a Glasscock and Mike’s Weeney.

All that's missing is a Pierzynski.
   11. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5863802)
did not know he should eat the spears and not the stalks on a piece of asparagus


Philistine!
   12. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5863806)
Should we do a WW2 Pacific Theatre digression?
He was born in 1938 and grew up in Hiroshima, so maybe not.
   13. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5863815)
OK, another week - let's try this again...I have some misgivings about this one, but let's give it a shot...

BASEBALL TRIVIA TIME:
Below are 17 offensive stats (no more SF - weren't kept back then). Can you name the cumulative decade leader for any of these stats from the decade of ..... the 1940s?

So this is a tricky decade - trickiest one of the 20th century. But some these are guys everyone's heard of. Others are names... well, some should know 'em.

IW are only partially here. Not availbe for all the decade, but I got a leader anyway.

Any guesses for the leaders?

G -
PA -
AB -
H -
2B -
3B -
HR -
R -
RBI -
BB -
IBB -
K -
SB -
CS -
GIDP -
SH -
HBP -
   14. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5863821)
OH - ADDENDUM TO THE QUESTION:

Two guys are listed four times each.
One guy makes the list three times
Two guys lead a pair of categories each
Two guys led in just one category.

That's it - just seven category leaders.

   15. Master of the Horse Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5863827)
Hits-Musial
   16. Master of the Horse Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5863830)
Runs-T Williams
   17. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:48 PM (#5863831)
Post #15:
Musial? Nope. He IS on the list, but not for hits.

Post #16:
Teddy Ballgame for runs? DING! And that's not the only one for him.

   18. Sweatpants Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5863834)
Games: Luke Appling?
   19. JJ1986 Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5863835)
Lou Boudreau for something...let's try hits?
   20. Master of the Horse Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5863838)
17--thanks.
   21. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5863839)
Post #18:
Appling for games? Nope. He ranked in 18th place there. He's not on the leaderboard for any category.

Post *19:
Boudreau - hits? DING! 1728. And I'd suggest thinking some more about that guy. You ain't seen the last of him on this 1940s leaderboard.
   22. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5863840)
There are 3 Hall of Famers on the list. As it happens, all three have already been mentioned so far.
   23. Master of the Horse Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5863841)
Walks--T Williams
   24. Sweatpants Posted: July 22, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5863843)
Stolen bases: George Case?
   25. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5863844)
Post #23:
Teddy Ballgame for walks? DING! That's 2 of the 4 categories he led in that have been named.

Post #24:
George Case for steals? DING! That's one of the two categories he led in. Anyone wanna guess the other one?
   26. Master of the Horse Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5863845)
HBP--Crosetti
   27. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:00 PM (#5863846)
I would venture Williams for BB and dingers
   28. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5863850)
Post #26:
Crosetti? Nope. He's not on the leaderboard at all. In fact, looking at it I don't see a single Yankee on the leaderboard. This might the only decade that's true for. Only liveball decade anyway.

Post #27:
We already got Williams for BB - but for HR? DING! OK, that's three of the four categories he led in that have been guessed: BB, R, HR. What's the fourth, then?
   29. Nasty Nate Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:04 PM (#5863853)
IBB I assume
   30. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5863856)
Eddie Joost for BB and PA?

Edit: take back on BB
   31. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:08 PM (#5863859)
Post #29:
Need to include a name with that.
   32. Nasty Nate Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5863860)
Sorry. Ted Williams. IBB
   33. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5863861)
Post #30:
Eddie Joost doesn't appear on the leaderboard at all. He played less than 1000 games in the decade.
   34. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5863863)
Post #29/32:
DING! That clear out Teddy Ballgame.

Still a Musial stat to guess. Two Boudreau ones. And a George Case one. (The Case one should be a slamdunk based on the one he was successfully guessed for).
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:14 PM (#5863865)
Case for CS, obviously.
   36. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:16 PM (#5863870)
Post #35:
DING!

7 named. 10 to go.
   37. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5863873)
Boudreau for doubles.
   38. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:27 PM (#5863874)
Post #37:

DING! Doubles & hits leaders - those things often go together.

Just one more stat Boudreau led in. Musial led in a stat as well.

And a few others I'll probably start dropping hints for in a bit - all led by non-Hall of Famers.

Leaderboard so far, because we're about halfway there.

G -
PA -
AB -
H - Lou Boudreau, 1578. JJ1986
2B - Lou Boudreau, 339. Tom Nawrocki
3B -
HR - Ted Williams, 234. jmac66
R - Ted Williams, 951. Horse Master
RBI -
BB - Ted Williams. 994. Horse Master
IBB - Ted Williams, 128 (only partial for the decade). Nasty Nate
K -
SB - George Case, 285. Sweatpants
CS - George Case, 84. SoSH
GIDP -
SH -
HBP -
   39. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5863878)
Let's try Boudreau for sacrifice hits as well, and Enos Slaughter for triples.
   40. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5863881)
Post #39:
Boudreau for SH? DING! That's the other one.

Slaughter for 3B? Nope. That's the only other category led by a Hall of Famer, though.
   41. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:37 PM (#5863882)
Bob Elliott was around for the whole decade, so let's try him at PA and AB.
   42. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5863884)
Musial for triples.
   43. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5863885)
SOME HINTS FOR SOME OTHERS

The K leader should be the easiest of the non-Hall of Famers. Why, even his nickname refers to all of his swing and misses. Should be enough of a hint. He leads in another category, too.

The GIDP leader. AL player who was good, very good even - but no one's upset he's not in Cooperstown. Personally the one thing I know about this guy is he once went on an unholy hell of a hot streak. Set some records for best month of hitting ever.

One guy is on the leaderboard four times. He's so generic that even his name's generic. No, not Bob Johnson. This guy can't even get a memorably generic name, can he? He played on two teams. He played two positions - one in the IF & one in the OF. If you type his name into wikipedia, he's not even the first guy with his name that pops up. A comedian with the same name is ahead of him. And even that comedian isn't that well known. (That comedian is probably better known for his son, also a comedian). He's an annoying obscure ball player.
   44. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:41 PM (#5863886)
Post #42:
DING! Musial clears out the Hall of Famers. Just the three guys hinted at in post #43 to go.
   45. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5863888)
Oh, I missed post #41
Bob Elliot for PA & AB? DING! DING! He leads in two other categories. (And he shares a name with Bob Elliot, half of the old Bob & Ray comedy duo, and dad of Chris Elliott).
   46. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5863889)
K is Dave Nicholson.
   47. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:46 PM (#5863890)
GIDP is Rudy York.
   48. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:46 PM (#5863891)
Post #46:
Well, you got his last name right.... (Bill Nicholson)

He leads in another category.

And Bob Elliot leads in two more categories.
   49. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:48 PM (#5863893)
Post #47:
York for GIDP? DING!

Three categories left: Games, RBIs, and HBP.

Two are Elliot & one is Nicholson.
   50. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:49 PM (#5863894)
Sorry about that - Dave Nicholson was a similar player from the 1960s, a free swinger with some home run pop, although not as good as Bill Nicholson. The younger Nicholson held the all-time single season K record for a while.
   51. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5863896)
Gonna just give the answers myself in a little bit. We're just about done anyway & I'm getting bored.

Any last minute guesses (based on what post #49 says)?
   52. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: July 22, 2019 at 02:02 PM (#5863899)
RESULTS

G - Bob Elliott, 1455
PA - Bob Elliott, 6170. Tom Nawrocki
AB - Bob Elliott, 5361. Tom Nawrocki
H - Lou Boudreau, 1578. JJ1986
2B - Lou Boudreau, 339. Tom Nawrocki
3B - Stan Musial, 108. Tom Nawrocki
HR - Ted Williams, 234. jmac66
R - Ted Williams, 951. Horse Master
RBI - Bob Elliott, 903
BB - Ted Williams. 994. Horse Master
IBB - Ted Williams, 128 (only partial for the decade). Nasty Nate
K - Bill "Dave" Nicholson, 708. Tom Nawrocki
SB - George Case, 285. Sweatpants
CS - George Case, 84. SoSH
GIDP - Rudy York, 147. Tom Nawrocki
SH - Lou Boudreau, 153. Tom Nawrocki
HBP - Bill Nicholson, 48

Thus ends the worst 20th century decade to guess for.
   53. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5863917)
Too bad there wasn't a ballplayer named Ray Goulding...
   54. stanmvp48 Posted: July 22, 2019 at 05:04 PM (#5863980)
I didn't realize until recently that the comedian Bob Elliot was the father of Chris Elliot
   55. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 22, 2019 at 05:23 PM (#5863988)
I didn't realize until recently that the comedian Bob Elliot was the father of Chris Elliot

proof that the apple can indeed fall several miles from the tree

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