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Thursday, July 26, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-26-2018

Washington Times, July 26, 1918:

A Detroit woman recently sued her husband for divorce because he so far forgot himself in his joy at seeing Ty Cobb crack out a hit that he slammed her in the jaw and sent her out for the complete count.
...
Hubby jumped around with joy-frenzied jumps and began to swing his arms. The fist at the end of one arm somehow or other landed flush upon wifie’s chin. Wifie crumpled and then flopped for the count.

I’m not going to joke about this - I don’t know what happened and domestic violence isn’t funny. I can’t imagine this is the real and complete story, and in the hundreds of sporting events I’ve been to, I’ve never seen anyone knocked cold by a celebrating neighbor. I chose this story mostly because the flippant tone the writer took is so startling. Goodness.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:06 AM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5716215)
A good Birthday Team today. It's pretty unusual to have a good pitching staff and have the team's leader in WAR be a relief pitcher.

C: Larry Woodall (4.01 WAR)
1B: Sam Leslie (12.31 WAR)
2B: Jimmy Bloodworth (1.86 WAR)
3B: Pete Ward (20.23 WAR)
SS: Jody Reed (15.89 WAR)
LF: Sibby Sisti (1.77 WAR)
CF: Norm Siebern (20.99 WAR)
RF: Bill Hassamaer (0.74 WAR)

SP: Sad Sam Jones (43.19 WAR)
SP: Ellis Kinder (28.7 WAR)
SP: Joaquin Benoit (17.73 WAR)
SP: Brandon Morrow (11.28 WAR)
SP: Vidal Nuno (3.46 WAR)
RP: Hoyt Wilhelm (47.12 WAR)

Owners: Joe Green, Sam Breadon
"Starting pitcher", has thrown 20.2 innings in 14 starts so far this season: Ryne Stanek (1.14 WAR)
Bench bat: Greg Colbrunn (6.96 WAR)
Fun name, -3.8 career WAR: Tricky Nichols (-3.8 WAR)
Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame members: Yoshio Yoshida, Shigeru Makino
Missing a letter: Jefry Rodriguez, Mat Gamel
Negro Leagues 3B of note, also Double Duty's little brother: Alex Radcliffe
Newspaper reporter, Babe Ruth's ghostwriter: Paul Gallico
Umpire: Ken Kaiser
Umpire, nicknamed "Grandmother": Phil Powers (-2.02 WAR)
   2. PreservedFish Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5716224)
The Rays have been doing all sorts of peculiar things lately which haven't received enough BTF attention.

The other day they brought in closer/opener Sergio Romo to close the game against some righties, but brought in the Lazarusian Johnny Venters to face one lefty, stashing Romo at 3B for the AB, and then allowed Romo to finish the game, presumably against a righty. The box score thus shows Romo with the S above Venters with the H.

The usage is already all over the map: Ryan Yarborough might be a starter, or he might be a long man, or he might be a short reliever, I'm not sure. Many pitchers have both started and finished games, which seems unusual. Although we've talked about Romo starting 5 games, I hadn't realized that Ryan Stanek, a short reliever, has started 14 games. A guy named Austin Pruitt is an actual non-extinct long reliever, with 56 IP in 16 G, no starts.

Now, after a few trades, they only have one recognizable traditional starter in the rotation, Chris Archer. Possibly two, if you count a rookie named Yonny Chirinos. It's fair to guess that pitcher usage is about to get even wackier, given the white flag trades and the absence of real starting pitchers.

This team is above .500 and 8 games behind the A's for the second Wild Card slot.
   3. BDC Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5716232)
I'm having problems accessing B-Ref PI, one reason why I haven't listed any box-score-line records recently. One thing I'm curious about is how odd Joaquin Benoit's career has been – or at least his initial 12 years with the Rangers' organization. Benoit pitched regularly for the Rangers at the major-league level for seven seasons, early on going back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen, then spending four years as a reliever but never as a closer (except for a couple of weeks late in 2007).

How common is it anymore (or ever) for a pitcher to spend seven years on the same major-league roster without, say, ever starting 20 games or saving 10 (which would fit Benoit's Ranger years)? Seven years is long for any pitcher to be on a single team, probably always was fairly long; but to stay that long as basically a middle-inning reliever must be quite odd.

Bob Stanley came to mind, 13 years with the Red Sox in continually changing roles, but he was a higher-profile pitcher and had an odd ace-long-reliever role at his peak.
   4. crict Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5716241)
Pete Ward is the son of NHLer Jimmy Ward.
NHLer Jeff Petry is the son of Dan.


Any other NHL/MLB connections like this?
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5716242)
The Rays have been doing all sorts of peculiar things lately which haven't received enough BTF attention.


I've been periodically checking in on the short-reliever as starter thing since it happened. They're 9-10 in those games, with a relatively equal mix of good outings and poor ones.

It seems their record is better than anticipated because they've gotten surprisingly good work from their pitching staff (Team ERA of No 4 in the AL) overall, rather than how they've managed to leverage their results (they're one game below pyth, for instance).
   6. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5716245)
SP: Brandon Morrow (11.28 WAR)
Good luck with that.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5716248)
How common is it anymore (or ever) for a pitcher to spend seven years on the same major-league roster without, say, ever starting 20 games or saving 10 (which would fit Benoit's Ranger years)? Seven years is long for any pitcher to be on a single team, probably always was fairly long; but to stay that long as basically a middle-inning reliever must be quite odd.


Scot Shields spent 10 seasons in the big leagues, all with the Angels, with just 15 total starts (a high of 13) and 21 career saves (never more than seven saves in one season).
   8. PreservedFish Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5716251)
Huh, I hadn't even realized that Stanek was a birthday boy.

AND, BDC's question focuses on the same topic that I touched on - pitchers amassing both games started and games finished.

Interesting synchronicity on the thread today.

Stanek has a 1.31 ERA as a "starter," with 20 IP in 14 GS.
   9. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5716252)
How common is it anymore (or ever) for a pitcher to spend seven years on the same major-league roster without, say, ever starting 20 games or saving 10 (which would fit Benoit's Ranger years)? Seven years is long for any pitcher to be on a single team, probably always was fairly long; but to stay that long as basically a middle-inning reliever must be quite odd.


I feel like it's the opposite - with the emergence of tightly defined relief roles and the growing importance of the middle reliever, my guess is that you're more likely these days to see pitchers like that. For example, this is Adam Ottavino's seventh year with the Rockies, and he's never started a game for them, while his career high in saves is seven.
   10. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5716253)
How common is it anymore (or ever) for a pitcher to spend seven years on the same major-league roster without, say, ever starting 20 games or saving 10 (which would fit Benoit's Ranger years)? Seven years is long for any pitcher to be on a single team, probably always was fairly long; but to stay that long as basically a middle-inning reliever must be quite odd.

Scott Sullivan, a workhorse sidearmer for the Reds, came immediately to mind for me. From 1997-2002 he averaged 72 games, 100 innings, and a 114 ERA+. He saved 9 games and made no starts during those six years.

He was traded in late August 2003 after throwing 49.2 IP. If you count his September 1996 cup of coffee, that pretty much brings you to seven full seasons with one team.
   11. Batman Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5716254)
Arthur Rhodes never had 20 starts or 10 saves in any of his 20 seasons. Nine of those were with Baltimore.

Paul Lindblad pitched in 11 seasons for the A's with a total of 30 starts (high of 14) and 41 saves (9).
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5716255)
Interesting synchronicity on the thread today.
Many miles away, something crawls to the surface of a dark Scottish loch...
   13. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5716257)
How common is it anymore (or ever) for a pitcher to spend seven years on the same major-league roster without, say, ever starting 20 games or saving 10?

Scot Shields comes to mind. Justin Duchsherer came close, six years with the A's and started 22 games one season.
   14. PreservedFish Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5716258)
I remember thinking that line about "the din of our Rice Krispies" was really hilarious when I was like 10.
   15. PreservedFish Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5716260)
The first guys I thought of, Mike Jackson and Eddie Guardado, each ruined his chance with a short stint closing.
   16. Hank Gillette Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5716261)
I chose this story mostly because the flippant tone the writer took is so startling. Goodness.


I don’t want to joke about it either, but that is one of the more original excuses for a man slugging his wife that I’ve ever heard.

The fact that she filed for divorce hints that there was more to the story.
   17. Batman Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5716267)
Russ Springer pitched in 18 years without ever starting 10 or saving 5, but he didn't pitch for anyone for more than four years.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5716270)
The first guys I thought of, Mike Jackson and Eddie Guardado, each ruined his chance with a short stint closing.
I remember Guardado having a pretty significant run as a closer...am I making that up?

CHECKING: Not really. He had 6 consecutive years of 10+ saves, peaking at 45 in '02 and 41 in '03.
   19. BDC Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5716274)
Thanks for those names, everybody. Maybe these one-club middle-bullpen veterans are a little more common than I thought. The Rangers have gone through so many relievers since the Benoit Era :)
   20. SandyRiver Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5716276)
A good Birthday Team today. It's pretty unusual to have a good pitching staff and have the team's leader in WAR be a relief pitcher.

Of course Wilhelm's most valuable season by far, at least by WAR, was the one in which he made 27 of his career 52 starts.
   21. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5716291)
Add Matt Thornton (8 seasons CWS) and Pedro Strop (6 and counting Cubs) to the list.
   22. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5716294)
Ryan Madson was on the Phillies for 9 years, spending half a year as a starter, and one year as a closer.

Then he went to the Reds, spoiling the one-team thing, and immediately had a career-ending injury, restoring the one-team thing.

Then he came back 4 years later and now he's been on 3 other teams.
   23. JJ1986 Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5716302)
Then he went to the Reds, spoiling the one-team thing, and immediately had a career-ending injury, restoring the one-team thing.
This reminds me of Pedro Feliciano. He only ever pitched for the Mets, but had 2 years on the Yankees in the middle of his career when he was injured the whole time. He had 9 seasons with the Mets - 5 full, 3 half-ish. All-in-all, he had 4 saves in 484 appearances.
   24. Batman Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5716305)
I guess the opposite would be guys who had 20+ starts and 10+ saves in the same year. There have been eight of those seasons (if you include one in the Federal League), but only one since the save stat was dreamed up.
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5716313)
This reminds me of Pedro Feliciano. He only ever pitched for the Mets, but had 2 years on the Yankees in the middle of his career when he was injured the whole time. He had 9 seasons with the Mets - 5 full, 3 half-ish. All-in-all, he had 4 saves in 484 appearances.


I wonder if any one-team big leaguer with so much time in the majors has ever been in as many orgs as Pedro (LAD, Cincy, Detroit, NYY and St. Louis, Cubs).
   26. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5716325)
I’m not going to joke about this - I don’t know what happened and domestic violence isn’t funny. I can’t imagine this is the real and complete story, and in the hundreds of sporting events I’ve been to, I’ve never seen anyone knocked cold by a celebrating neighbor. I chose this story mostly because the flippant tone the writer took is so startling. Goodness.


There was the story of Frank Graddock, who beat his wife to death in 1969 because she kept turning off the Mets game to watch Dark Shadows on a Tuesday afternoon.
   27. sotapop Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5716328)
PreservedFish, and others:

I've watched Stanek for a few seasons now, at A ball in Port Charlotte and at the Rays, and he's a really interesting case. He's consistently in the high 90s and often hits 100 mph. So you'd think, flamethrower reliever, but it didn't seem to work for him. Hitters would sit on the fastball and crush it. This year he got an audition as closer, and was a little better, but not much: in May his ERA, mostly relieving, was 4.66 (though opponents' BA was .171). Gave up 5 earned runs in 9 innings.

Then he got this "opener" role and something clicked (or it's one hell of a coincidence). In June and July, he's given up just 3 runs in 29 innings while improving his strikeout rate (38 in 29 innings, or 11.8 per 9).

Overall splits: As a reliever, opposing slash line is .172/.264/.297; as a starter: .151/.235/.192 (not a typo)

Anecdotally, looks like he's mixing up his pitches better, even though (since he's getting 1-2 inning gigs) he could just throw all fastballs.

I'd like to see if he could throw 5 or 6 innings, because he was a starter in the minors, and as you noted, they Rays have very little true starting pitching. Although Blake Snell does wave hello. :)
   28. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5716342)
I wonder if any one-team big leaguer with so much time in the majors has ever been in as many orgs as Pedro (LAD, Cincy, Detroit, NYY and St. Louis, Cubs).


Mark Prior is tied; he signed with the Padres, Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox and Reds after his Cubs career was sadly cut short, but never got back to the majors.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: July 26, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5716349)


Mark Prior is tied; he signed with the Padres, Rangers, Yankees, Red Sox and Reds after his Cubs career was sadly cut short, but never got back to the majors.


He's one short. I didn't include the Mets in that list.

   30. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 26, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5716373)
There was the story of Frank Graddock, who beat his wife to death in 1969 because she kept turning off the Mets game to watch Dark Shadows on a Tuesday afternoon.

They did win the World Series that year. The Internet doesn't seems to have the case's disposition readily available, so no idea if that was considered a mitigating circumstance at the time.
   31. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 26, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5716385)
I'm on Frank Graddock's side, except for the murderous violence part. This sounds like a great Mets game and a missable episode of Dark Shadows.

Mets game: Complete games from Jerry Koosman and Ferguson Jenkins, and the Mets come back from 3-1 down in the 9th to win on a 2-out single by Ed Kranepool. Homers by Ernie Banks, Jim Hickman and Kranepool.

Dark Shadows: Magda thinks the gypsies sent Aristede and she mentions a King Johnny Romana again. She thought they had a little time before he sent someone or came himself. Quentin suggests that they contact Angelique but Magda says, "She could be anywhere on Earth or in hell." Magda also says, "She's trouble, she's always trouble." Quentin will do it anyway, "I won't have to hide in a world where there's no hiding places."

Evan wakes up and sees an out of focus Angelique, a very good way to bring her back for the moment. Angelique seems to talk to him as if she knows him from another life, as if he’s Nicholas Blair, which he’s not. "And you stayed," she says, inexplicably. She wants to re-establish herself to the bosom of the Collins family, "That's where I belong." It seems to be 8 pm. She wants Evan to lie for her to them and tell the family that he knew her before she knew and married Barnabas. That she was his unwilling victim.

When Magda opens the door to Angelique. She tells them she just happened to be wandering by. When Quentin explains the hand is no longer here, Magda says, "I wish he was lying but he’s telling the truth."

Evan telephones Collinwood and speaks to Edward about Angelique.

Angelique wants to talk to Quentin alone so makes Magda leave, "And don’t eavesdrop." She will have a price for helping him.

Aristede is at the docks, smoking a cigar. Angelique appears and he tells her he's from no place and everyplace. She fakes that she is an actress and a puppeteer. She borrows a scented handkerchief from him and fakes a voice that she is pretending to be Aristede's voice. It is not very good, he says. She uses it to choke the doll and hence, Aristede.

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