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Monday, July 30, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-30-2018

Pittsburgh Press, July 30, 1918:

After arriving at his summer home, whither he went before the war secretary had announced his final decision with regard to the future of baseball, President John K. Tener, of the National league, announced that he did not believe any world’s series would be played.

At the same time, the magnates were already beginning to plan for the annual classic, and there is at present every reason to believe that the series will go through.

It begins to look as if the magnates have quit taking Tener into their confidences. It has long been known that many of them were out of harmony with him, and it may be they have decided to ignore him completely henceforth.

The fact that Barney Dreyfuss, the Pittsburg [sic] magnate, was asked to serve as a National league committee of one to confer with the American league about the world’s series would seem to strengthen this belief. Ordinarily, this task would be assigned to the president of the league.

Tener’s stint as NL President was indeed living on borrowed time by the end of July 1918.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 30, 2018 at 09:48 AM | 30 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 30, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5717891)
When you hear that Scott Fletcher is a Birthday Team's career leader in WAR, you'd probably think it's a bad team. In this case, you'd be wrong - these guys are pretty good, actually.

C: Frankie Pytlak (8.32 WAR)
1B: Gus Triandos (13.97 WAR)
2B: Jack Conway (-0.97 WAR)
3B: Doug Rader (24.37 WAR)
SS: Scott Fletcher (32 WAR)
LF: Pat Kelly (11.77 WAR)
CF/Manager: Casey Stengel (20.08 WAR)
RF: Ellis Valentine (17.08 WAR)

SP: Joe Nuxhall (30.15 WAR)
SP: Paul Minner (18.74 WAR)
SP: Steve Trout (13.37 WAR)
SP: Joe Coleman (6.39 WAR)
SP: Scott Diamond (1.92 WAR)
RP: Ricky Horton (4.73 WAR)

Owner/Commissioner: Bud Selig
-3.24 WAR in 222.2 career IP: Carl Doyle (-3.24 WAR)
Not that one: Bill Cunningham (0.62 WAR)
Not that one: Bill Hall (0.24 WAR)
Not that one: Mike Jones (-0.06 WAR)
   2. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 30, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5717894)
Speaking of Scott Fletcher, holy balls, he's 60 years old today. I feel old. Get those damn kids off my lawn.
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: July 30, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5717898)

Speaking of Scott Fletcher, holy balls, he's 60 years old today. I feel old. Get those damn kids off my lawn.


I remember noticing it a few years ago, but it's still shocking that Scott Fletcher had a 32-WAR career.
   4. Batman Posted: July 30, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5717905)
Fletcher was the second-most valuable position player on the 1983 White Sox. I would never have guessed that, or who the third and fourth MV positions players on that team were.
   5. BDC Posted: July 30, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5717907)
Time to close out the box-score-line records for 2-for-4 games. Most times with the precise line ab/r/h/bi, regular season since 1908:

4 3 2 3 : Bobby Abreu, 4 times

4 4 2 3 : George Grantham, twice

4 5 2 3 : Ira Flagstead is the only person to do this, in 1927. Search for Ira Flagstead on B-Ref and you see a flat-nosed guy who you're sure was a prizefighter, and indeed he was. Flagstead got votes on five straight MVP ballots in the 1920s, for reasons now hard to determine. He was a tough out but no great hitter by '20s standards, and a decent center fielder but no Tris Speaker. I guess the overall package impressed some voters.

4 3 2 4 : Jeff Bagwell, 3 times

4 3 2 5 : Jeff Bagwell, 4 times

4 3 2 6 : Bagwell never did this, but 23 other guys did, most recently Maikel Franco earlier this year

4 2 3 7 : five men did this once, most recently Francisco Lindor earlier this month

4 4 2 4 : 12 have done this, most recently Ryan Braun in 2010

4 4 2 5 : three did this, most recently Curtis Granderson in 2011

4 4 2 6 : only done once, by Ray Knight in 1979. Quite a day. Knight started with an RBI single and scored, then walked and scored, grounded out, and was safe on a fielder's choice (a run scored on an error, no RBI), later scoring.

At this point Ray Knight was probably thinking "After four plate appearances, here I am at a lousy 3 3 1 1 on the day. What are the odds of me achieving the historic line of 4 4 2 6?" But he persisted. Knight hit a sacrifice fly in his fifth PA and then, in the top of the ninth with two outs and his team already ahead 12-2, he blasted a grand-slam home run.
   6. dlf Posted: July 30, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5717948)
3B: Doug Rader (24.37 WAR)


I can certainly understand him not overtaking Casey for the Mgr slot on this team, but looking back, his record isn't as bad as I remembered. Not that he was good, but he was over .500 in his stop in California after burning bridges in Texas.
   7. Perry Posted: July 30, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5717956)
Nuxhall, 36 and in his next-to-last season, was one of the starters in the first MLB game I attended. Knew he had a long career but didn't realize he had 30 WAR, that's better than I would have guessed.
   8. eric Posted: July 30, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5717958)
4 2 3 7 : five men did this once, most recently Francisco Lindor earlier this month


Am I to assume from the prevailing trend, that these two values should be reversed?
   9. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 30, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5717969)
Fletcher was the second-most valuable position player on the 1983 White Sox. I would never have guessed that, or who the third and fourth MV positions players on that team were.


I assume Carlton Fisk was the most valuable. I'm guessing Harold Baines and Rudy Law were in third and fourth - Ron Kittle probably got docked on account of his defense.
   10. Batman Posted: July 30, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5717973)
Fisk was their most valuable position player and Rudy and Vance Law were third and fourth. Kittle was ninth, behind those four plus Luzinski, Baines, Paciorek, and Julio Cruz.
   11. BDC Posted: July 30, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5717983)
Am I to assume from the prevailing trend, that these two values should be reversed?

That's right, my error, it should be 4327.
   12. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5717987)
The third- and fourth- most valuable position players on the pennant-winning 1983 Phillies were Bo Diaz and Joe Lefebvre.

Pete Rose contributed -2.1 WAR although the metric I looked at doesn't incorporate hustle (Rhus).
   13. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5717992)
On this date in 1959, Willie McCovey made his major-league debut. Which is remarkable for two things. First, it was a TREMENDOUS debut: he went 4-for-4 with two triples against Hall-of-Fame pitcher Robin Roberts, 3 runs scored, and 2 RBI. Second, Willie McCovey made his major-league debut on July 30, 1959, and won the 1959 National League Rookie of the Year award (unanimously) having played in only 52 games that season.
   14. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5717993)
Speaking of Scott Fletcher, holy balls, he's 60 years old today. I feel old. Get those damn kids off my lawn.


Also turning 60 this year:
Gary Gaetti
Julio Franco (or is it 600?)
Orel Hershiser
Willie McGee
Dave Righetti
Mike Scioscia
Rickey Henderson

[gritted teeth emoji] [gritted teeth emoji] [skull emoji] [skull emoji] [gritted teeth emoji] [gritted teeth emoji]
   15. Rally Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5717994)
Fisk makes sense. Would have guessed Baines #2 because at the time he was no DH, he was a young right fielder and considered a strong all-around player. At the time Kittle and Luzinski were considered big parts of the team but things like defense and position adjustments were not considered.

If you told me in 1983 that someone was out-producing his teammates on the strength of defense I would have guessed Cruz. He got a lot of talk about great defensive plays back then, while I think Fletcher and the Laws were considered solid but nothing great. They were 28-32 before the Cruz trade, 71-31 after. Fletcher, Cruz, and Law were all between +14 and +17 by Total Zone but at the time Cruz was the one whose defense was talked about, with the overall team play after the trade adding fuel to the argument.

Cruz had 1.9 WAR for the Sox and 2.4 overall. Still not enough to crack the top 4. They were remarkably balanced. All 9 starters were at least average (Kittle at 1.9 WAR, 0.0 WAA is 9th). Yet only Fisk (4.3) tops 4 WAR. There can't be many teams in history like that.
   16. PreservedFish Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5717999)
Also turning 60 this year:
Gary Gaetti
Julio Franco (or is it 600?)
Orel Hershiser
Willie McGee
Dave Righetti
Mike Scioscia
Rickey Henderson


Would you take Rickey or Julio in the draft?
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5718000)
Also turning 60 this year:
Gary Gaetti
Julio Franco (or is it 600?)
Orel Hershiser
Willie McGee
Dave Righetti
Mike Scioscia
Rickey Henderson
I assume Rickey and Franco are planning to celebrate by batting 1-2 for some independent team?
   18. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5718004)
Fisk was their most valuable position player and Rudy and Vance Law were third and fourth.


Vance Law was their third baseman and hit .243/.325/.348 on his way to an 83 OPS+. He jumps into fourth place on the team because bb-ref loves his defense for that year, giving him 1.9 dWAR when his second highest career mark was 0.9 dWAR, and he earned just 0.6 dWAR for his entire career. You'll forgive me for taking that with a grain of salt.
   19. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5718006)
LF: Pat Kelly (11.77 WAR)

Kelly: "Skip, don't you want me to walk with the Lord?"
Weaver: "I'd rather see you walk with the bases loaded"
   20. Bote Man Posted: July 30, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5718017)
Cole Slaw >>> Vance Law
   21. Tyhand7 Posted: July 30, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5718030)
LaRussa moved Fisk to the 2nd spot in the lineup and Fisk tore it up from that point forward. The starting pitching was really good. They had the Winning Ugly tagline if memory serves correctly...
   22. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 30, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5718034)
Nuxhall is up to 30.35 WAR if you give him a pass on his appearance as a 15 year old. -0.2 WAR in 0.2 innings. He was on pace for a -200 WAR season. They really should have kept him around and let the kid go for the record.

(I love how B-R calculates a FIP value for a 15 year old throwing 2/3rds of an inning. 25.04! Much better than his 67.50 ERA!)
   23. Batman Posted: July 30, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5718036)
It shows Nuxhall as being voluntarily retired his age 17 season (apparently to play high school ball), but he came back the next year.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 30, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5718038)
(I love how B-R calculates a FIP value for a 15 year old throwing 2/3rds of an inning. 25.04! Much better than his 67.50 ERA!)
Makes perfect sense - it was during WWII, when most of the fielders were missing at least one limb.
   25. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 30, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5718063)
CF/Manager: Casey Stengel (20.08 WAR)


Most people my age are dead, at the present time, and you could look it up.
   26. Batman Posted: July 30, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5718069)
They had the Winning Ugly tagline if memory serves correctly...
Coined by birthday boy Doug Rader
   27. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: July 30, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5718077)
The starting pitching was really good.


Yes. That Fletcher was 2nd on position player WAR is surprising, but he was 5th overall. 3 of the top 4 were pitchers.
   28. eric Posted: July 30, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5718145)
On this date in 1959, Willie McCovey made his major-league debut. Which is remarkable for two things. First, it was a TREMENDOUS debut: he went 4-for-4 with two triples against Hall-of-Fame pitcher Robin Roberts, 3 runs scored, and 2 RBI. Second, Willie McCovey made his major-league debut on July 30, 1959, and won the 1959 National League Rookie of the Year award (unanimously) having played in only 52 games that season.


Yet it would be another four years, 1963, before he would have a full MLB season. Was he injured a lot, or was he really platooned despite his fantastic rookie year?

Also turning 60 this year:
Gary Gaetti
Julio Franco (or is it 600?)
Orel Hershiser
Willie McGee
Dave Righetti
Mike Scioscia
Rickey Henderson

[gritted teeth emoji] [gritted teeth emoji] [skull emoji] [skull emoji] [gritted teeth emoji] [gritted teeth emoji]


Wade Boggs also turned 60 last month. All the stars of my youth are almost straight elderly. Time is fleeting. I guess it's time to get out of my parent's basement and decide what I'm going to do with my life.
   29. QLE Posted: July 30, 2018 at 06:46 PM (#5718159)
I assume Rickey and Franco are planning to celebrate by batting 1-2 for some independent team?


Or for the Baltimore Orioles, depending on who pays better....

Yet it would be another four years, 1963, before he would have a full MLB season. Was he injured a lot, or was he really platooned despite his fantastic rookie year?


Not sure it was platooning per se (I'd need to know usage patterns better), but the issue with the Giants was that Orlando Cepeda has similarly won ROY honors the previous year, was similarly a first baseman, and- most importantly- that, for whatever reason, they found it impossible to move Cepeda permanently off first base. Note that McCovey doesn't become the full-time first baseman until 1965- a season which Cepeda largely spent on the bench.
   30. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 30, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5718190)
Note that McCovey doesn't become the full-time first baseman until 1965- a season which Cepeda largely spent on the bench.


Everything I can find says that Cepeda had a knee injury in 1965. For the four years prior to that, he had averaged .309/36/112, so it's doubtful the Giants would have parked him on the bench for a season, logjam or no.

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