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Friday, August 17, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-17-2018

Chicago Eagle, August 17, 1918:

“The most peculiar happening in baseball during my career took place when I was with the St. Louis Feds,” said Bob Groom. “In a game at Pittsburgh, we had the bases filled and Larue Kirby came to bat. He hit for a home run, his hit accounting for four runs. Then the Pittsburgh management discovered that according to the score card Delos Drake should have hit ahead of Kirby. The umpire ruled Drake out for not having batted and allowed Kirby to hit over again. This time he tripled, driving in three runs, a total of seven runs in one time at bat.”

A neat story, but Larue Kirby never hit a triple against Pittsburgh or had more than two RBI in a game.

But it does lead me to wonder if there’s any situation in which it’s advantageous to intentionally bat out of order. A situation something like extra innings, first and third, one out, no pinch hitters available, and a horrendous-hitting pitcher (Don Carman and his career .057/.066/.057 line, for example) at the plate. He’s almost certainly going to make an out and if he manages to make contact, it’s probably not getting out of the infield. He’s at least as likely to hit into a double play than score the run. Can a manager skip the pitcher, report it to the umpire himself, and send the next batter to the plate?

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:05 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bad ideas, batting out of order, dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5728745)
Today's Birthday Team features one of the top Yankees of this century as well as one of the top Red Socks. So naturally all their games will last five hours.

C: Jorge Posada (42.77 WAR)
1B: Rudy York (34.73 WAR)
2B: Dustin Pedroia (52.14 WAR)
3B: Jim Davenport (18.2 WAR)
SS: Johnny Rawlings (5.31 WAR)
LF: Boog Powell (39.04 WAR)
CF: Alex Cole (4.2 WAR)
RF: Bill Keister (10.85 WAR)

SP: Brett Myers (14.63 WAR)
SP: Diego Segui (12.51 WAR)
SP: Vern Bickford (11.67 WAR)
SP: John Buzhardt (11.28 WAR)
SP: Skip Lockwood (10.76 WAR)
RP: Doug McWeeny (6.14 WAR)
RP: Chad Qualls (5.92 WAR)

Manager: Butch Hobson
20-game loser: Mike Maroth (4.05 WAR)
Ballplayer, urgent medical condition, or both?: Dick Lines
Fun names: Slim Embry, Jeff Moronko, Tuffy Gosewisch
Not that one: Larry Johnson, Charlie Brown
Prospect flameout: Matt Anderson (-0.56 WAR)
   2. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5728758)
SP: Brett Myers (14.63 WAR)


Hey, Brett! How's the wife?
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5728760)
You know, I think I'd be too busy laughing like Beavis to complain about a three-pitcher inning if it went Doug McWeeny - Dick Lines - Skip Lockwood.
   4. Batman Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5728765)
But it does lead me to wonder if there’s any situation in which it’s advantageous to intentionally bat out of order. A situation something like extra innings, first and third, one out, no pinch hitters available, and a horrendous-hitting pitcher (Don Carman and his career .057/.066/.057 line, for example) at the plate. He’s almost certainly going to make an out and if he manages to make contact, it’s probably not getting out of the infield. He’s at least as likely to hit into a double play than score the run. Can a manager skip the pitcher, report it to the umpire himself, and send the next batter to the plate?
Or, if somebody like Aaron Judge was supposed to hit after the Carmanesque hitter, you could send Judge up and tell him to swing as hard as he can at the first two pitches. If it goes to 0 and 2, you send Carman up to finish the out (but don't even let him bring a bat with him) and then Judge gets three more shots.
   5. BDC Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5728769)
Here's a pointless trivia question (but is there any other kind?)

Which player with ≥3,000 PAs has seen the highest percentage of his hits (26.32%) go for doubles? It's an active player.

This active player is barely ahead of a retired (but also 21st-century) batter, 26.27% of whose hits were doubles. So the retired guy might eventually "reclaim" the top spot.

Clues … the active player is an All-Star, the retired one never was. Both were rookies at age 26. Both LHB.

As you might expect, these are two guys with middling-at-best batting averages (so not a huge number of singles). Neither ever finished a season (the retired guy never did, the active guy hasn't yet) with more HR than 2B (which would also stand to reason).
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: August 17, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5728770)
He’s almost certainly going to make an out and if he manages to make contact, it’s probably not getting out of the infield. He’s at least as likely to hit into a double play than score the run. Can a manager skip the pitcher, report it to the umpire himself, and send the next batter to the plate?
Ideally, the bad hitter would obey an order not to swing. Maybe you can luck into a HBP or BB.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: August 17, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5728773)
Maybe you can luck into a HBP or BB.


Or WP/PB. There's no way batting out of order would ever make more sense than just standing up there with no intention of swinging.
   8. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 17, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5728785)
Or, if somebody like Aaron Judge was supposed to hit after the Carmanesque hitter, you could send Judge up and tell him to swing as hard as he can at the first two pitches. If it goes to 0 and 2, you send Carman up to finish the out (but don't even let him bring a bat with him) and then Judge gets three more shots.


What would be the point of that?
   9. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5728799)
You know, I think I'd be too busy laughing like Beavis to complain about a three-pitcher inning if it went Doug McWeeny - Dick Lines - Skip Lockwood.

Especially if Dick Pole came out to make the pitching changes.
   10. SandyRiver Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5728807)
No answer to #5 (yet) but it did get me to check on another recently retired doubles machine LH batter. His 2B were "only" 25.57% of total hits, also he hit more HR than 2B 3 times (a 4th with too few PA to qualify for rates titles) and was on some AS teams.
   11. Bote Man Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5728809)
In the box score it always says "Dick Lines out", even if he popped out.
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5728810)
Especially if Dick Pole came out to make the pitching changes.
Huhuhhuh. Yeah. He would come out to the mound. "Dick Pole to the mound to replace Dick Lines." Huhhuh.
   13. Batman Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5728815)
Mel Harder belongs in there somewhere.

I didn't have a guess for #5, but all 9 players with 25% of their hits going for doubles played in this century. At 24%, it's 22 of 23 in this century, with Mike Macfarlane (played until 1999) the only exception. At 23%, 57 of 65 played in this century and another six played in the 1990's.
   14. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5728816)
#5 Chase Utley
   15. Rennie's Tenet Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5728819)
Nomination of Boog Powell and Alex Cole as the least similar players standing next to each other.
   16. BDC Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5728821)
Utley is incorrect, though he's similar in a lot of ways to the active double-ratio guy (LHB, late start, almost identical career batting averages, doubles power, All-Stars – and both have played some second base).
   17. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5728823)
Matt carpenter
   18. BDC Posted: August 17, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5728834)
Carpenter is correct! 255 of his 969 hits have been doubles, the best ratio ever (in 3,000 or more PAs). He has never had more HR than 2B (Utley did once, but only barely) – though this year so far Carpenter has 33 of both.
   19. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: August 17, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5728860)
Nomination of Boog Powell and Alex Cole as the least similar players standing next to each other.


Then there's Nate Freimam standing next to Jose Altuve.
   20. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 17, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5728880)
Then there's Nate Freimam standing next to Jose Altuve.

YOUR HULKING BEHEMOTHS ARE NO MATCH FOR OUR TINY TERROR TOT!!!!!
   21. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: August 17, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5728895)
YOUR HULKING BEHEMOTHS ARE NO MATCH FOR OUR TINY TERROR TOT!!!!!


There's a version of that image where Freiman's head is cut out of the frame in order to get them in the same photo.

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