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Tuesday, August 21, 2018

Primer Dugout (and link of the day) 8-21-2018

Philadelphia Evening Public Ledger, August 21, 1918:

If the stories about Hal Chase and his alleged gambling on ball games are true he should be driven out of baseball never to return.
...
He is said to have bet against his own team and, according to sworn testimony of two players on the Giants—Pol Perritt, the pitcher, and Ross Young [sic], the outfielder—they were approached by Chase and virtually asked to resort to questionable methods to beat Cincinnati.
...
The most damaging testimony was given by Perritt in an affidavit in Cincinnati last week…Perritt inferred, according to the statement, that he would be permitted to win his own game. He wanted to knock Chase down, but decided, instead, to tell McGraw. Muggsy advised his pitcher to keep quiet for a time, which he did. Shortly afterward, Perritt said Chase told him it was “all off.”

Chase was reinstated, mostly because baseball didn’t take this sort of thing seriously enough before the Black Sox thing blew up. The weird thing, the thing I can’t fathom, is that John McGraw traded for Chase in February 1919 and used him as the Giants’ everyday first baseman that season.

I’m not saying McGraw was crooked. I’m just saying he co-owned a poolroom with Arnold Rothstein and knowingly traded for a player who threw ballgames.

Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:05 AM | 49 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dugout, history

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   1. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5730656)
A sneaky-good Birthday Team today. No real weaknesses, a lights-out closer, and Just Dingers in right field.

C: John Stearns (19.67 WAR)
1B: Frank Isbell (14.52 WAR)
2B: Felix Millan (17.56 WAR)
3B/Manager: Craig Counsell (22.37 WAR)
SS: 1940s Woody Williams (3.49 WAR)
LF: Melvin Upton (16.46 WAR)
CF: Johnny Bates (20.63 WAR)
RF: J.D. Martinez (19.81 WAR)

SP: Murry Dickson (46.13 WAR)
SP: Ismael Valdez (24.12 WAR)
SP: Gerry Staley (18.97 WAR)
SP: Jason Marquis (6.85 WAR)
SP: Bruce Berenyi (6.28 WAR)
RP: John Wetteland (19.25 WAR)
RP: John Henry Johnson (7.55 WAR)

Fun names: Hilly Flitcraft, Vern Fear, Tuffy Rhodes
Hitter of Triples: Chief Wilson (13.34 WAR)
Minor league outfielder/Awful NFL quarterback/Dominant college quarterback: Akili Smith
Neither of those ones: Craig Robinson
Not that one: Derek Fisher, Cobe Jones
Unfortunately probably wasn't nicknamed Cannonball: Ledell Titcomb (-3.44 WAR)
   2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5730657)
SP: Murry Dickson (46.13 WAR)

I'm always surprised when I've never heard of a 40+ WAR player. Though, frankly, besides leading the NL in losses, three consecutive years, with 21, 19, and 20, there's not much memorable about Murry.

He should have been the original for the "buy a vowel" line.
   3. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5730658)
Box-score-line records with a couple of trivia items in bold. Most times with the exact ab/r/h/bi line, regular season since 1908:

4 1 4 1 : Earl Averill had five of these games, and Paul Waner had four. Who was the only other batter with four? He batted RH. He hit .276 lifetime, but since his leagues hit as low as .230, he appeared on three batting-average leaderboards. Fond of calculating his own batting average, he went on to a post-baseball career as an accountant

4 2 4 1 : Ty Cobb, 4 times

4 3 4 1 : Rogers Hornsby, 3 times

4 1 4 1 : Two men did it twice. Contemporaries, they were very similar players: super-fast outfielders, switch-hitters, leadoff men on pennant-winning clubs

4 5 4 1 : Four players did it once; the last was Chris Burke in 2006
   4. PreservedFish Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5730660)
I support the spelling of Murry - the 'a' in Murray is extraneous unless it's pronounced "murh-RAY." If you rhyme with flurry and slurry, spell it Murry.
   5. Man o' Schwar Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5730662)
Murry Dickson is not a name I was familiar with, which is surprising given how long his career was in the 40s-50s.

In 1952, he went 14-21 with a 3.52 ERA for a last-place PIT team that went 42-112. (I was curious how he finished 13th in MVP voting with a 21-loss season.)

EDIT: Some form of beverage to snapper, I think.
   6. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5730664)
I saw Murry Dickson pitch once, which is remarkable since he retired when I was six months old. But he pitched in an old-timers game at Connie Mack Stadium in – it must have been 1969. I saw Stan Musial and Richie Ashburn play in that game, too. Do I post this every August 21st? :)
   7. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5730667)
I put some trivia on here recently and Murry Dickson was one of the answers, and someone eventually got it.

His biography is very interesting. Both his baseball career and his life outside baseball.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5730668)
I support the spelling of Murry - the 'a' in Murray is extraneous unless it's pronounced "murh-RAY." If you rhyme with flurry and slurry, spell it Murry.

Disagree. Looks weird.
   9. Batman Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5730669)
When Robin Roberts set the career record for home runs allowed in 1957, it was Murry Dickson's record he broke. Roberts held the record until Jamie Moyer passed him in 2010. Roberts is still second, but Dickson is #56 now.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5730671)
4 1 4 1 Is Willie Wilson one of them?
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5730676)

His biography is very interesting. Both his baseball career and his life outside baseball.


4 battle stars in WW2 is nothing to sneeze at. Puts him up there with Williams, Berra, and Feller for real, active WW2 service.
   12. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5730681)
Willie Wilson is correct!
   13. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5730682)
Murry Dickson apparently was a lot of fun to be around, doing magic tricks, always coming up with new pitches, and had a lot of funny stories. Including the story about General Patton requesting that he be Patton's personal driver, and Dickson being desperate to not get that assignment.
   14. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5730683)
up there with Williams, Berra, and Feller for real, active WW2 service


Ted Williams' combat service was in Korea, not WW2. That is perhaps pedantic, but this is BBTF and this is what we do :)
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5730685)
Ted Williams' combat service was in Korea, not WW2. That is perhaps pedantic, but this is BBTF and this is what we do :)

Well, cross him off the list then. My RF has been dead for 130 years, I've got bigger problems.
   16. dlf Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5730688)
Ted Williams' combat service was in Korea, not WW2.


My understanding is that Ted, while not in combat in WWII, was a Marine flight instructor (Great Lakes Naval Station?) rather than a roving celebrity ballplayer.
   17. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5730691)
Here's a good page on Ted Williams in WW2. He did both: was an outstanding pilot and gunner, serving as an instructor; and played quite a bit of baseball too. The biographies I've read suggest that Williams got into flying in an obsessive way, which seems to be how he approached hitting, hunting, fishing, and other crafts. I believe there were times when he could have opted for baseball duties and preferred getting more flying time.
   18. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5730693)
Ted Williams' combat service was in Korea, not WW2. That is perhaps pedantic, but this is BBTF and this is what we do :)


Still. It's not like Willams was playing baseball. He was a stateside flight instructor, which was still a pretty dangerous gig. About 15,000 died in training during the war.
   19. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5730698)
I'll go with Bill North for the other 4141
   20. salvomania Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5730704)
Vince Coleman?
   21. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5730708)
Bill North is another similar player but is earlier than the second 4441 guy. I made a typo in that line; the two fast switch-hitters had two 4441 games; it was a slow RHB who had four 4141s.

EDIT: And yes, Coleman was the other 4441 leader!
   22. SandyRiver Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5730714)

4 battle stars in WW2 is nothing to sneeze at. Puts him up there with Williams, Berra, and Feller for real, active WW2 service.

I'd add Spahnnie to that list - fewer medals, but one was a purple heart.
   23. eric Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5730717)
Since being pedantic is the trend for today, I'm guessing the second 4 1 4 1 is intended to be 4 4 4 1.

Edit: and to follow that trend further, I should hit refresh before posting :)
   24. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5730723)
Cecil Travis, an infantryman, also had four battle stars (plus a Bronze Star) and certainly shortened his career (as well as interrupting it) because of frostbite suffered in the Battle of the Bulge.

Hank Greenberg's was perhaps the most celebrated overseas service at the time. He was an officer in the Army Air Force and served in a B-29 unit in China, not flying for the most part, but managing a support unit – also dangerous duty. Greenberg was (at least from his autobiography) pretty punctilious about not wanting to play baseball in the service, though he too did play on occasion (this page mentions a war-bonds fundraising game in New York in 1943).

(Just so people will not think I am here just to pick apart players' war service :)
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5730732)
Hank Greenberg's was perhaps the most celebrated overseas service at the time. He was an officer in the Army Air Force and served in a B-29 unit in China, not flying for the most part, but managing a support unit – also dangerous duty.

Certainly don't want to demean anyone's service, but managing an air base is nowhere near the league of danger as being a combat infantryman, or serving on an assault boat at in an amphibious invasion. The Air Corps experience was really bifurcated: flying was incredibly dangerous, being base personnel was very safe (relative to other military roles).
   26. crict Posted: August 21, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5730751)
At the beginning of the season someone posted a link to a website that allowed to view mlb videos with a much user-friendlier interface. I can't remember what was the name of that website. Anybody knows? It's ridiculous how MLB hides their fastcast videos that I like to watch everyday to catch on what I missed.
   27. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5730755)
#26: I think it was Baseball.Theater.
   28. crict Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5730759)
Thanks Dan, that's it. Unfortunately no fastcast on it. Am I the only fan of that format?
   29. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5730766)
MLB uploads the Fastcasts here every morning. You should be able to bookmark that link and visit it as needed.
   30. Nasty Nate Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5730770)
Baseball Theater is awesome. I'm worried that it will be taken away because it doesn't slow down your computer to a crawl, etc...
   31. crict Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5730771)
Well, another thanks! Somehow my googling skills had failed.
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5730786)
Well, another thanks!

Speaking of pedantic, why is "thanks" never singular. I mean, in "Thank you" it is singular, but you don't give someone "a thank".
   33. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5730792)
but you don't give someone "a thank".


Kevin Malone does
   34. PreservedFish Posted: August 21, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5730827)
I mean, in "Thank you" it is singular, but you don't give someone "a thank".


I bet that "thank you" is a abbreviated/bastardized "I thank you," which means that "thank" is a verb and not a singular noun. As a noun it is never "thank."
   35. vortex of dissipation Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5730884)
Jerry Coleman was a dive bomber pilot in he Marines in WW2, flying 57 combat missions with the Douglas SBD Dauntless, earning the Distinguished Flying Cross. He returned to the Marines in Korea, and flew 63 missions in Corsairs.

Jake Jones is unique among major-league baseball players. Although several baseball players were combat pilots in World War II and the Korean War, Jones is the only one who became an ace, by shooting down five or more enemy aircraft.

Jones joined the US Navy on June 30, 1942. He became a naval aviator, and was commissioned as an Ensign on August 1, 1943. Assigned to VF-3 in November 1943, he served with the unit on the USS Yorktown, an aircraft carrier, flying Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat fighters.

Jones scored his first victory on November 14, 1944, downing a Japanese Mitsubishi A6M Zero over the Philippines. He followed this with another Zero destroyed, and one damaged, exactly a month later, on December 14.

On February 1, 1945, he was tranferred to VBF-3, continuing to fly Grumman F6F-5s. On February 16, 1945, he shot down three Zeroes on a mission NE of Tokyo, to give him five confirmed victories, and make him an ace. The next day he added another Zero, and a Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa. His final claim came on February 25, when he received a half-share of a probable Ki-43.

His final score was seven destroyed, 0.5 probable, and one damaged. Jones was awarded the Silver Star, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and two strike/flight Air Medals.

Phil Marchildon is also notable - a gunner in a Handley Page Halifax of the Royal Canadian Air Force, he was shot down and spent nine months in a German POW camp.
   36. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5730891)
4 1 4 1 ... Fond of calculating his own batting average, he went on to a post-baseball career as an accountant

4 1 4 1 Is Willie Wilson one of them?

Willie Wilson is correct!

I made a typo in that line; the two fast switch-hitters had two 4441 games; it was a slow RHB who had four 4141s.

Thanks for the clarification, BDC. I was having a hard time picturing Willie Wilson working an office job as an accountant given the Bill James line about him that if you asked Wilson for an interview, there was a 50% chance you'd get an interview and a 50% chance you'd get an obscenity.
   37. Perry Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5730964)
I'd add Spahnnie to that list - fewer medals, but one was a purple heart.


Not a player, but Jack Buck was wounded in the same battle as Spahn, Remagen Bridge.
   38. dlf Posted: August 21, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5730975)
Maj. Ralph Houk

“The day I remember best was Dec. 21, 1944,” Fiore [ed. Houk's commanding officer] said at his central New Jersey home. “We were holed up in the snow in Luxembourg. Five days earlier, the Germans had begun their famous Runstedt counteroffensive, the Battle of the Bulge. They had attacked with some 250,000 men and nearly 1,000 tanks on the 85-mile Ardennes Front. At Beaufort, where we were, they had engulfed our A Troop. They had shoved the rest of the battalion back three miles through rock-ridged hills to the picture-book medieval town of Waldbillig.

“Houk, then a second lieutenant in B Troop, had taken charge at Waldbillig. Two adjacent platoon leaders had been killed. He was in control of 60 men. They were trying to stay warm. They also were trying to stay alive. From behind the artillery-rubbled stone houses of Waldbillig, Houk could see some 200 Germans in their blue-gray uniforms sneaking through snow-crusted ditches. Then, one by one, six huge Tiger tanks poked their long black snouts out of the fog and clanked down the road toward Houk and his men.”

Fiore, a 1935 West Point graduate who died in 1999 at 88, let Houk’s official record describe what happened next:

“Deliberately exposing himself to the withering fire, although the fire was so intense that his clothes were torn by enemy machine-gun bullets, he calmly moved from one position to another, directing his men. As enemy tanks continued to advance, realizing that his guns were ineffective against them, he secured a tank destroyer from an adjacent unit, and personally directing its fire, he forced the enemy to withdraw from the area. Through his gallant leadership, he was directly responsible for repelling the enemy attack.”
   39. Sweatpants Posted: August 21, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5731074)
4141: Danny Cater?
   40. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5731079)
managing an air base is nowhere near the league of danger as being a combat infantryman, or serving on an assault boat at in an amphibious invasion. The Air Corps experience was really bifurcated: flying was incredibly dangerous, being base personnel was very safe (relative to other military roles)


Again, I may be influenced by Greenberg's own description of his service. Sure, being on the ground was exponentially safer than flying. But Greenberg was in India, Burma, and China, sometimes in improvised conditions that involved more or less privation. All these guys did their duty, even those (like Stan Rojek, who I mentioned the other day, or Joe DiMaggio for that matter) who did little but play baseball. But my original pedantic comment was only about combat overseas. Greenberg was overseas and in a war zone; that is a kind of duty, different than front-line combat and different from stateside duty and other permutations.

I just enjoy learning about the different kinds of experience. Sometimes people interested in baseball history imagine war service as a homogenous thing, but there were many varieties.
   41. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5731090)
And just as I was typing that, Sweatpants has a winner with Danny Cater.

I sometimes associate Danny Cater with Carney Lansford – not confusing them, because I haven't gotten that bad, but in thinking of them as closely comparable players. Each had a big BA season (Cater's famous .290 in the awful year of 1968, Lansford's strike-shortened batting title in 1981. Both were Oakland A's and both were Red Sox. Both were RHBs who didn't walk a heck of a lot or have serious power for their era.

But Lansford broke in earlier, and had a 40-WAR career to Cater's 10. Much of that is sheer career length; Lansford was a regular much longer. Lansford, though no great glove man, held down 3B for a long time, and Cater was a competent 1B at best. Lansford was a fine baserunner, and Cater was slow. But it still surprises me a little that Lansford had four times the career value. He wasn't that much better a baseball player.
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5731094)
Again, I may be influenced by Greenberg's own description of his service. Sure, being on the ground was exponentially safer than flying. But Greenberg was in India, Burma, and China, sometimes in improvised conditions that involved more or less privation. All these guys did their duty, even those (like Stan Rojek, who I mentioned the other day, or Joe DiMaggio for that matter) who did little but play baseball. But my original pedantic comment was only about combat overseas. Greenberg was overseas and in a war zone; that is a kind of duty, different than front-line combat and different from stateside duty and other permutations.

I just enjoy learning about the different kinds of experience. Sometimes people interested in baseball history imagine war service as a homogenous thing, but there were many varieties.


Agree totally. I'm sure it was no picnic. Just that compared to [38], it's not in the same league of experience.

My grandfather served in WW1. He loved it. He was a builder and they put him in an engineer unit building roads and bridges and barracks.

He came home with like $10,000 in war bonds, because he'd buy them for pennies on the dollar from soldiers that wanted cash to spend on booze and women. The Feds actually investigated him, but found it was all legit.

My great uncle served in WW2, and had the opposite experience. Lots of combat. Was a tank driver. But, he was Mark Clark's driver for a while, which is cool.
   43. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:06 PM (#5731105)
But Lansford broke in earlier,


Since we are being all pedantic and stuff, Lansford broke in at an earlier age. Cater broke in with the fateful 1964 Phils, Lansford, 14 years later. You had me going for a second.
   44. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5731113)
Greenberg was overseas and in a war zone; that is a kind of duty, different than front-line combat and different from stateside duty and other permutations.


During the first Gulf WAR, my wife was a KC-135 pilot. She flew missions over Iraq, refueling fighter and attack aircraft. She was shot at. But they weren't combat missions. Back then, women were not allowed in combat, so by definition, and tanker mission with a female crew member was not logged as a combat mission.
   45. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:12 PM (#5731118)
Point taken, Edmundo, and I amend "earlier" to "younger" :)
   46. BDC Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5731127)
During the first Gulf WAR, my wife was a KC-135 pilot. She flew missions over Iraq, refueling fighter and attack aircraft


One of my master's students did the same job. She and your wife may know each other (unless you are actually married to her :)
   47. dlf Posted: August 21, 2018 at 06:20 PM (#5731130)
She and your wife may know each other (unless you are actually married to her :)


If he is married to both, I'm betting his wife doesn't know your student.
   48. AndrewJ Posted: August 21, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5731208)
When Robin Roberts set the career record for home runs allowed in 1957, it was Murry Dickson's record he broke. Roberts held the record until Jamie Moyer passed him in 2010. Roberts is still second, but Dickson is #56 now.

So the career home runs allowed record for 60+ years has been held by a one-time Phillie. Seems appropriate.
   49. Hysterical & Useless Posted: August 22, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5731551)
I enjoy the fact that different spellings can give you the same pronunciation. Go to Scotland, and visit the area of the Morey Firth. The locals pronounce it "Murry." Or "Murray." I forget which.

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